By In Stuff

People vs. WAR

Derek Jeter or Asdrubal Cabrera: Fans and WAR vote differently for the All-Star Game. (US PRESSWIRE)

First of all, in my mind nobody ever gets “snubbed” for the All-Star Game. It’s not the right word. The purpose of the game is too confusing to call anything a snub. Is the game for the fans? Is it for the players? Is it for home-field advantage? If something doesn’t have a specific purpose, it’s hard to say anybody got snubbed. If you were having a draft, but you didn’t know what it was for, it would be hard for anyone to say, “Why didn’t you pick me?”

The way it is with the All-Star Game: There are some who think the players should be the ones who had the best first half. There are others who think the All-Star Game should be for the fans’ favorites, no matter how they happen to be playing at that particular moment. There are others who think the All-Star Game should feature their own hometown stars, deserving or not. Many of these are Giants fans.

And who is to say any of them are wrong? If you are a Giants fan, shouldn’t you vote for Giants? I grew up in Cleveland, and I voted every year for Duane Kuiper. Someone could have pointed out a million obvious statistical reasons why Willie Randolph or Bobby Grich or Frank White might be the more compelling choice, but I would not have cared. Duane Kuiper was my guy (Frank is now my guy too). And it’s my vote.

I have the same feeling about Derek Jeter — the guy’s one of the greatest shortstops in the history of baseball, he’s one of the popular players in the history of baseball, and if you think, “the All-Star Game wouldn’t mean as much without him,” you don’t have to justify that. It’s your vote.

And I have the same feeling about Melky Cabrera — he’s hitting .354, slugging .516 and playing one of the toughest hitting ballparks in baseball. Can he keep it up? Will he drop off dramatically? That’s the future. He’s killed it this season, and that doesn’t need to be justified.

So here’s what I’ve done. I’ve tried to get at all of those — I’ve put together a little draft between the fans and WAR. They will each pick a team. The fans’ draft is based on vote totals. The WAR draft, obviously, is based on Wins Above Replacement (some combination of the FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference models). Let’s the do the draft first, then I’ll try to make some sense of it.


Fans get first pick. They select, Josh Hamilton, OF, Texas. He led all vote-getters by a landslide.

WAR, with its first pick, selects: David Wright, 3B, Mets. Someday, someone will answer the question for me — how David Wright, who is an amazing player, an interesting individual and who has spent his entire career in New York can be so underrated.


Fans: Buster Posey, C, San Francisco. Those Giants fans are amazingly loyal.

WAR: Joey Votto, 1B, Cincinnati. Has he taken over as best hitter in the game?


Fans: Derek Jeter, SS, Yankees. Fans going for star power here.

WAR: Mike Trout, OF, Angels. And WAR going for youth.


Fans: Carlos Beltran, OF, St. Louis. I’ve been writing about Carlos Beltran for so long, I almost feel like a proud uncle watching him have such a great first half.

WAR: Carlos Ruiz , C, Philadelphia. Two catchers selected in top four rounds — and neither one is Joe Mauer?


Fans: Robinson Cano, 2B, Yankees. Fans steal WAR’s next selection.

WAR: Andrew McCutchen, OF, Pirates. Yes, we saw it last year, but how great is it to see the Pirates in first place. Why can’t that EVER happen to the Royals?*

*I shouldn’t say “ever” because it did happen in 2003 if by “it” you mean “were in contention at the All-Star break.” Take a look, however at the other years:

Royals, games behind at All-Star break:

2012: 7.5 games back
2011: 10.5
2010: 10.5
2009: 11.5
2008: 11.5
2007: 15
2006: 27.5
2005: 27.5
2004: 16
2003: UP 7 games!
2002: 15 games back
2001: 21
2000: 15
1999: 21
1998: 12.5
1997: 9
1996: 14.5
1995: 12

Look at that chart. That might be the most depressing thing I’ve seen in a long time. It isn’t just that the Royals have been terrible year after year since the strike. It is that they have been out of contention every single year by the All-Star break — this in a division that has not always been particularly strong. Not counting that crazy 2003 season, they have trailed by double-digit games every year except 1997 and, perhaps, this year. Perhaps. At this point, if you are a Royals fan you are not even asking for a meaningful September. A meaningful July would do.


Fans: Pablo Sandoval, 3B, Giants. Great to see Panda hitting again, but Mel Kiper would definitely call this a reach. Those Giants fans!

WAR: Michael Bourn, OF, Braves. But Kiper might not like this pick either.


Fans: Curtis Granderson, OF, Yankees. Curtis Granderson at Yankee Stadium this year: 14 homers, one double. Last year: 25 homers, 11 doubles (BR Mike pointed out this second stat is wrong; it’s 21 homers, 15 doubles). Just an interesting piece of trivia — ballparks can play such a big role in a players’ performance.

WAR: Jason Kipnis, 2B, Cleveland. Quietly having a good year with 11 homers, 20 of 21 stolen bases and good defensive numbers. Ian Kinsler leads the league in runs and doubles. WAR does not care.


Fans: Prince Fielder, 1B, Tigers. Just beat out Brandon Belt. Those Giants fans!

WAR: Asdrubal Cabrera, SS, Cleveland. WAR loves those Cleveland middle infielders.


Fans: Ryan Braun, DH, Milwaukee. Each team gets to pick a DH with the last pick; the fans pick is actually Matt Kemp but he’s hurt.

WAR: Melky Cabrera, DH, San Francisco. WAR snags a Giant!

OK, so here’s what the teams look like (I tried to choose the highest scoring lineup using Baseball Lineup Simulator):

1. Carlos Beltran, RF
2. Josh Hamilton, LF
3. Robinson Cano, 2B
4. Ryan Braun, DH
5. Curtis Granderson, CF
6. Prince Fielder, 1B
7. Pablo Sandoval, 3B
8. Derek Jeter, SS
9. Buster Posey, C

That lineup (assuming everyone hits at the pace they hit in the first half) simulates out to 987 runs for a season, or 6.09 per game. I originally had Hamilton and Cano switched, but the simulator say it will squeeze out an extra run or two this way. Defensively, it’s not great.

And here’s the WAR team lineup

1. Mike Trout, LF
2. Andrew McCutchen, RF
3. David Wright, 3B
4. Joey Votto, 1B
5. Carlos Ruiz, C
6. Melky Cabrera, DH
7. Asdrubal Cabrera, SS
8. Michael Bourn, CF
9. Jason Kipnis, 2B

That lineup, making the same assumptions as above, simulates out to 1,116 runs for a season, or 6.89 per game. Defensively, it is mostly spectacular, with three center fielders roaming the outfield.

So what would happen if these two teams played a seven-game series? This is the beauty of baseball: You have no idea what would happen, right? One, we haven’t even talked about pitchers. But even assuming the same pitcher was going for both sides, you still don’t have any idea. Baseball — like everything — is more complicated than, well, anything imaginable.

I was thinking about this regarding Jeter. Since May 5, Jeter has been hitting .252/.307/.314 in the leadoff spot for the Yankees. And over those 53 games, the Yankees are 34-19, that’s .641 baseball or 104-win pace over a 162-game season. I realize we are talking arbitrary starting and ending points, small sample sizes, none of this matters — but I’m not trying to make that point. I’m simply making the point that while everyone will tell you how important the leadoff hitter is to winning games, Jeter has been struggling for two months in the leadoff spot, and the Yankees have been winning at a championship pace.

It isn’t just Jeter. As Tom Tango points out, Mariano Rivera did not have a single save over that time. Alex Rodriguez has been pretty blah, Mark Teixeira has been pretty blah, The rotation has been beat up, and the bullpen has not exactly invincible. But when you put it all together, the Yankees still have seven above-average hitters in their daily lineup, they hit a lot of home runs, and they’ve been getting enough pitching to not just win, but win big. You can’t wrap up winning and losing baseball in some simple and neat package.

But which team would you rather have? The fans team certainly have more star power and more years. The WAR team has more athleticism and youth. The fans team has quite a bit more World Series and playoff experience. The WAR team has many more stolen bases and can probably cover a lot more defensive ground. The fans team figures to be a lot more settled — these guys, as the line goes, know how to play the game — but you have to ask if they can stay healthy and fresh. The WAR has its own risks. Will Mike Trout dip as the league adjusts to him? Will Melky continue to hit like this? How about Ruiz?

Who do you think would win? I’ve got the poll up asking that very question.

But then there’s another question: Which team would be more fun to watch play? I might prefer to see the WAR team play — younger, faster, more options, better defense — but you might prefer seeing players you’ve watched and admired for a long time like Jeter and Beltran and Cano and so on. Are either of us right? Well, I’ve got that poll question up too. Which team would be more fun to watch?

By the way, I am absolutely recommending that baseball try something like this instead of the state American League vs. Nation League. The other day I listed off fun ways to play the All-Star Game. Add this one too: Scouts vs. Stats … or Fans vs. Scouts … or Everyone vs. La Russa. I’ve got lots of ideas.

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43 Responses to People vs. WAR

  1. Mark Coale says:

    Sounds like the basis for a Mike Schur podcast.

  2. Mike P says:

    Your numbers on Granderson’s home/road splits are wrong. Last year he hit 21 homers and 15 doubles at Yankee Stadium, compared to 20 homers and 11 doubles on the road, which kind of dilutes your point about him.

  3. Sonic Soft says:

    Love the Everyone vs. La Russa option…

  4. nightfly says:

    Well, in a seven-game series, either team could win, right? Someone better and quicker at the math could confirm it for me, but my rough estimate is that if these two teams played each other exclusively for one year, then by PythagWL the WAR team would win 91 and the FAN team 71. Sounds like a lot, but that works out almost exactly to 4-3 over a 7-game block (3.927777 – 3.072223, to be precise).

    So, what are the odds that the WAR team actually does win a single 7-game set against the FAN team? Based on the expected win% (.56111, give or take) over a full season… well, here’s where I always forget something in my math. I’m pretty sure the WAR team has only a 9.91% chance of sweeping, and a 3.71% chance of dropping all four. It’s the mixes and adding the mixes that gets me.

    • gwowen says:

      Using your p = .56111 and q = .43889 and a nice healthy piece of Pascal’s triangle, I get the chance of the WAR team winning a 7 game series as

      p^7 + 7 * p^6 * q + 21 * p^5 * q^2 + 35 * p^4 * q^3 = .6317

      or about 63.2%. So the WAR team would win just over 3/5 of the time.

  5. Tampa Mike says:

    I think it should be the guys having the best year so far. Evan Longoria has been hurt almost the entire year and he still got tons of votes… I think he finished 4th. That is ludicrous.

    It diminishes the game to me… as does the Rangers having 7 players.

    • Rob says:

      How does an injured star coming in fourth impact anything? If he got elected to start, yeah, that would be a joke. But, he’s not on the team, right? That’s the issue, not who came in fourth or fifth in the fan voting.

    • nightfly says:

      Even if he were voted in to start, if he’s hurt he can’t be there.

    • Brandon says:

      Still bitter from being eliminated by the Rangers the last 2 years? And we have 8 all-stars, not 7. Besides Napoli, who is not deserving based on this year’s performance?

  6. The Goche says:

    I do love the idea of having a fan vote team vs. another team, like fan vote vs. player vote, and do it like you did this, with a kind of draft just like you did here.

    You could even pick a captain each year to select the other team. I’d love to see a fan vote team vs. a Bill James team. I’d also get a laugh out of seeing the team Joe Morgan would pick.

    But everyone vs. LaRussa would be awesome.

    Another idea: just have one team selected by Cards, Giants and Yanks fans, since the voting is already dominated by whoever has the most blind fan voting. Then let everyone else pick people based on actual merit.

    • Doug says:

      Oh my god a Joe Morgan team vs Bill James team exhibition series might be the greatest event in baseball history. Someone make this happen.

  7. An even better option than everyone vs. La Russa is everyone vs. Bugs Bunny:

  8. Or howzabout this: fans vote for players, writers and coaches. No position breakdown, just a simple list of who gets the most votes. The top vote-getters in each category form one team, the second-placers form the other. From there, they have a draft.

  9. It killed me, but I had to vote WAR team in both categories. I love the idea of fans v. scouts or everyone v. La Russa. Maybe players v. managers (picking teams, not actually playing the game (at least as to the managers), I don’t think anyone wants to see Jim Leyland trying to run to first while smoking a cigarette). Better yet, fans v. general managers. We all know we could pick a better team than our local GMs, anyway, so why not prove it?

  10. J Hench says:

    As the differences between the leagues get almost entirely diluted, I’d love to see the top 4 vote-getters at each position (regardless of league) get named to the team, and then have the managers (or team captains, or last player picked) choose sides on tv right before the game. Who will be the last player picked? Who will be the starting 9? This will also ensure that the best players (or at least, the starters) play most of the game.

  11. In everyone vs LaRussa, would LaRussa pick Pujols because of his versatility?

  12. Gary says:

    It has often been noted that a leadoff batter actually only has one plate appearance per game where he is truly the leadoff hitter – the very first PA of his team’s turn at bat. After that, he may not lead off an inning the rest of the game. Depending on how things go, the cleanup hitter may lead off an inning three times in a game.

    Since May 5 (the date Joe picked in this column), Derek Jeter has been the leadoff hitter in 52 games, so 52 plate appearances. During that time, his numbers in the lead-off spot of the game are .314/.327/.529. However, since May 26 he has led off in 34 games, so 34 plate appearances. His numbers in those lead-off appearances are .424/.441/.727.

    Overall for the season through July 4, Jeter has led off 79 games and is .377/.392/.610. But he had a stretch in the middle of May when he went 15 straight games without reaching base in his first PA. In his other 64 times leading off a game this season, he is .468/.484/.758.

    I didn’t have time to see how that compares to other leadoff hitters around the majors, but in April and June, Jeter reached base to start the Yankees’ offense nearly half the time. That seems pretty good.

    The leadoff hitter, second hitter and the third hitter are the only ones who are always assured of hitting in their position in every game. A clean up hitter may never get to “clean up,” a No. 5 hitter may lead off every inning, etc. Leading off a game usually means a different way of looking at pitches, taking certain pitches, drawing out pitchers to give teammates an extra look at how a pitcher is performing and, of course, getting on base.

    It’s easy to look at overall numbers and decide who should or shouldn’t be a leadoff hitter, but to truly see how a player performs in that situation, then you should look at how he does actually leading off a game, not how he performs in subsequent at bats.

    • clashfan says:

      If you only look at the first PA of the game, you are going to have a small sample size that’s not statistically relevant. It’s just silly to say that Jeter does really well in his first PA of the game, but drops off in subsequent at-bats, so he should remain the leadoff hitter. We look at his recent body of work and try to discern if he’s likely to do his job–get on base–as well or better than anyone else in the Yankees’ lineup. I don’t think he does. I also don’t think it matters too much.

    • Rob says:

      Talk about cherry picking stats! Looking at first at bats only to try and tell a story about how he hasn’t sucked as bad as his overall stats indicate. Then… Eliminating his 15 straight games without a hit in his first at bat. You’re too much. Jeter homers are the worst!

    • Gary says:

      My point here is not to defend Jeter (he has a career full of accomplishments, he really doesn’t need me to defend him) but to determine what the value is of statistics in determining who should be the leadoff batter. If he’s not leading off an inning, does it matter as much what his OBP is? If the No. 5 hitter leads off an inning, is his OBP more important? If the argument is that the leadoff hitter is the tablesetter for the RBI men behind him, then shouldn’t you arrange your lineup so that your second and third best OBP men bat ninth and second? Even your No. 8 hitter should have a good OBP because he could easily be on base when the 2, 3 or even 4 hitters get up.

      Although it would be nice to reduce everything to neat statistics, the fact is that baseball is played by humans with human emotions. The first batter of the game often sets a tone for how the game will be played out. If he makes an out, the emotions of the pitcher and defense rise; if he gets a hit, the emotions of offensive team rise. This ebbs and flows throughout a game, of course, but it does make a difference.

      Another thing statistics fail to capture is the situational hitting that is taught from junior high to the majors. One example of this is when the leadoff hitter of an inning reaches second base with no outs. The next batter is looking to hit a ground ball to the right side. Ideally he wants to get a hit, but he wants to hit the ball in such a way that if he’s out, the runner can advance to third. With a runner on third and less than two outs, the hitter looks for a pitch that is up that he can drive into the outfield. Again, he ideally wants a hit but he is looking for a way that if he makes an out, the runner can score. Likewise, a leadoff hitter is going to approach the first at bat of the game differently than the cleanup hitter will approach his first at bat with runners on base. Your best players will approach an at bat differently leading off an inning than they will coming up later in the inning. Game situation and the count also dictate a hitter’s approach. Good players take very different swings on an 0-2 count than they will on a 2-0 count.

      You’ll see this change as a player ages, too. It’s the bottom of the ninth, game tied, winning run on second. You might see a 24-year-old slugger take three mighty cuts trying to hit the ball out of the park. Eight years later, as a veteran, you might see the same player poke a single into rightfield because he knows that’s all he needs to win the game. Or, if he comes up in the bottom of the ninth, game tied and no one on, he’ll be swinging for the fences because he knows that’s how he can win the game.

      So before deciding whether Jeter should or shouldn’t be the leadoff hitter, or anyone else on any other team for that matter, it seems that we should determine what the role of the leadoff hitter is and what constitutes a good leadoff hitter. If it’s just overall OBP, the only players on the Yankees’ active roster who are higher than Jeter are Cano and A-Rod, and A-Rod’s is only 5 percentage points higher.

    • J Hench says:

      The reason OBP is important in a leadoff hitter is not just that it is important for the leadoff hitter to reach base leading off. It is also that the leadoff spot bats more frequently than any other lineup spot over the course of a season (and to some extent even within a single game) and therefore has more of a chance to make an impact. If the leadoff hitter (even if he comes up 5th in the inning the next 3 times he bats) is not successful in avoiding outs, then that reduces the opportunity his team has for scoring.

      In any case, Joe’s point in bringing Jeter up was not that Jeter should not be leading off for the Yankees, but instead that the Yankees have somehow overcome Jeter’s poor performance in the leadoff role to be extremely successful over the last two months. Given how much emphasis people place on the leadoff man being the sparkplug and setting the table and so on, this seems unexpected, and so worth noting.

  13. Rufus says:

    How about the last place team in each division gets to pick their first nine? It’d be like a kid in a candy store! Then the managers actually managing get to select the rest of the line up.

  14. The WAR Team includes three guys (McCutchen, Ruiz, and Melky) with a BABIP roughly 100 points above their career BABIP. Given that Trout and Kipnis don’t have much of a track record, roughly half the team is nothing more than the luckiest players over 200-300 AB’s (though they would be dazzling in the field).

    Precisely because most casual fans don’t know who is really having the best year, the Fans’ Team features players who are truly excellent, even after regression to the mean. That’s why I’d put my money on them.

  15. Tim says:

    Single season WAR (not to mention half-season WAR) is problematic because its defensive components are problematic. I’d be more comfortable using offensive WAR + Joe’s best guess of each player’s defensive contribution, instead of a half-season of WAR that includes small samples of defensive stats.

  16. Mark Coale says:

    As a kid in the 1980s, I always did my due dilligence and studying the Sunday newspaper every week with the stats for both leagues for about a month before voting for the “most deserving players.” Of course, all we had back then was AVG/HR/RBI and W-L/ERA.

  17. Which of the FAN teams players would have been on the WAR team if not picked by the fans first? You mentioned Cano, but anybody else?

  18. Mark Daniel says:

    I’d pick the team with more HR, and that’s the fan vote team. They have 149 to the WAR team’s 100. The Vote team also has 5 players with >20 HR, compared to the vote team’s 0. If the pitchers are the same, and I’m assuming all star caliber, then I’d rather have the team with better odds of blasting a HR.

    Also, defensive stats are not compelling to me. Sure they can tell you who the top defensive players are, but I’m not sure the difference between the best SS in the league and a league average SS is statistically significant. The fact that defensive stats can vary widely from one year to the next, and the fact that many sabermetricians note that it takes 3 years of data for fielding stats to be reliable, strongly suggest either lots of error in the calculations or small differences between the players.

  19. goraffe says:

    I think basing the WAR team on the Best WAR over the past year months hurts your argument. All Star Game aside, if we want to look at which team is set up for sustained greatness, you would have to side with the Fan’s. There are a few clearly better players on the WAR team, but (admittedly without looking at the stats), there are few grossly unbalanced 1:1 swaps. On the other hand, would anyone seriously trade Carlos Ruiz for Posey or Melky for Braun? That would be absurd. With the exception of present day Jeter for Asdrubal, as great as Votto and Wright are, there are no absurd comparisons going the other way.

  20. Rob says:

    I honestly can’t see how Michael Bourne wasn’t selected. Batting avg, yep, run scored, yep, OBP, yep, great defense, yep, stolen bases, yep. WAR, yep! Some guys just fly under the radar. He’s quietly having a Top 5 MVP season…. and he can’t even get on the all star team!!

  21. Rob says:

    The other thing I’m amazed by is Melky Cabrera. With the Braves he was SO FAT and TERRIBLE. When he went to the Royals, aka the Braves dumping ground, I figured he would be done in a couple of years. Well, he definitely lost a lot of weight. I guess being in shape isn’t overrated, right Melky?

  22. smartmouth says:

    i want to see the best hitters bat against the best pitchers with the best fielders in the field. however you want to pick the teams i would have platoons for the all-star game. a line-up of hitters and designated fielders. the best defensive players could play in the field every inning and the line-up would consist of 9 designated hitters. i don’t have all the details worked out but i think it could be workable.

  23. Joe says:

    Brilliant column Joe, but I don’t know who would win a 7 game series, since I only got 9 of 25 roster spots and have no idea about pitchers and backups!

  24. Ian R. says:

    WAR has a someone unfair advantage in this setup because the fan voting started in mid-April. The first overall player on the fan team is Josh Hamilton, who has been fairly terrible for the last month, because he was awesome in April and May. Meanwhile, the WAR team is based on performance all the way up to the day this post was written.

    I wonder how different the teams would look if we just looked at the players who got the most votes in, say, the last week of voting?

  25. adam says:

    I find it curious people often focus on merit for ASG based on the first half of the year only. What about including contributions since the previous year’s ASG? Then you get a full year’s performance.

    That aside, Joe was spot on at the beginning of the column – ASG means different things to different people so there’s no right or wrong answer. MVP voting has that same problem.

  26. Number Three says:

    The All-Star Game is a travesty of baseball justice just south of the HOF (Alan Trammell has never been inducted, and Lou Whitaker should go in with him!) . . . but I’m content to not pollute its irrationality with objective statistics. As Joe says, the game’s purpose is hard to define . . . impossible.

    As a D.C. guy now, though, I have to ask, how did the fans NOT vote in Bryce Harper? I mean, I think it’s better that he rest for a few days so he can continue to HIT THE COVER OFF THE BALL. But he’s clearly a star. And it’s a game all of stars!!

  27. WAR team would be more fun to watch, solely because Andrew McCutchen is on it. OK, I’ll give Mike Trout some love, too.

  28. Scott says:

    When you say “people vs. WAR” you leave out one major point: most big league managers think more like people than the WAR stats. I’ve seen this my entire life, managers always assume a player will eventually revert to the mean, and the longer the players track record the greater the assumption that they will fall back to their normal line after a hot streak (or start hitting again after a drought). The fact is, baseball is full of 1/2 season or 1 season wonders who eventually reverted back to themselves. I’m a Tigers fan and remember Chris Shelton hitting nearly 1/4 of his career home run total in one hot April. He turned back into what he was soon after. Young players without a lot of scouting on them can get away with leaving a hole in their swing, once the word gets out that they are doing damage the other teams in their division will find a way to beat them and see what happens next. People think hitting a big league curve is the hardest thing to accomplish in all of sports but that just isn’t true. Learning to hit a big league curve, doing it successfully and having teams exploit the hole in your swing and learning how to keep hitting while changing everything you thought you knew about the biomechanics of hitting a ball with a bat is far harder. The fact is, 1/2 season of WAR just isn’t enough sample size to evaluate a player, and in a big game, or big series, I’d pick the great vets with a track record of making adjustments and getting prduction when it matters over the young guys on a hot streak to start the season any time.

  29. In the theoretical meaningless draft you posit there is worth in order and bias of selection, which would correspondingly generate dissent amongst those selected late in the draft. Picking solely because you like someone better is enough to cause an uproar; and logically that would be one of the main components in a context-less draft. You and Michael Schur should draft celebrities based on no criteria.

  30. The following is worth nothing, for miniscule sample size, impossibility to adjust for uncontrolled variables such as facing different pitchers, “hits” such as the roller by Chipper Jones (a likely fans’ choice, it would seem), etc.

    However, for what it’s worth (nothing), in the actual game, the fans’ team went 5 for 18 (in getting on base) with a double and two triples. The WAR team was 6 for 16 (without Kipnis, of course), including a home run.

  31. I think it should be the guys having the best year so far. Evan Longoria has been hurt almost the entire year and he still got tons of votes… I think he finished 4th. That is ludicrous.


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