The Poscast Episode 7 — Penalties

Michael and Joe, after putting in safeguards to keep them from yammering on too long, promptly have their longest podcast of the season. Topics discussed include: The palpable sadness of this Derek Jeter farewell tour, their massive disagreement over the intentional walk and the general lousiness of the American League East. They then draft sports penalties.

Check out this episode!

33 thoughts on “The Poscast Episode 7 — Penalties

  1. jscape2000

    I just disagree about Jeter. He’s hitting poorly for him, but Brian McCann’s .252 OBP is a bigger problem, as are the .280 OBP for Beltran and Soriano. Brian Roberts, professional hitter, will be a bigger problem for the Yankees than Derek Jeter.

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    1. Patrick Bohn

      That’s taking a pretty narrow view of the players’ offensive contributions. At least the other three guys provide some value with their power, which the Yankees need. Half of their HR total comes from those three players. Jeter’s never had a lot of power, but it’s pretty much non-existent right now.

      I think, however, that the “palpable sadness” part is what makes Jeter’s situation so unique.. He’s 40 years old, coming off a major injury, and honestly, aside from a few extra days off, the Yankees keep trotting him out to the same position, and penciling him into the same lineup spot they always have. It’s really, really hard to watch.

      And as the season wears on, unless Jeter gets better, there’s no good solution. If he plays, we’re left with people asking incessantly about his poor play. If the Yankees decide to bench him, then we’re dealing with watching one of the most iconic Yankees ever finish his career on the bench. Think of the final years of some of the recent Yankee icons. Williams hit .281 with 12 HR, Mattingly .288 with 7 (and an insane postseason). Paul O’Neill hit 21 HRs. I’m cherry picking some meaningless numbers, but that’s kind of the point. At least with those guys, there was *something* you could look at and be positive about. Jeter’s not providing anything, and that’s what is sad

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      1. jscape2000

        Yeah, I take a pretty narrow view. OBP should be .325+, and the higher OBP you can give me, the less I care about slugging. And it’s not like those guys are homering at a Mcgwire like rate that it justifies their general not hitting.

        Maybe I don’t feel any sadness watching Jeter because I feel relief? Imagine if he had not already announced his retirement.

        The other piece of it is that it’s not like the Yankees have anyone else they can run out there 5 days a week. Jeter has played 25 of 32 games, on pace for 126 games. That’d a few more than Chipper Jones played his last couple of season, but that’s the comparison I keep making.

        If there’s sadness, it’s that the Joel Sherman has to figure out a way to help the Post sell papers, so he writes columns about benching Jeter for Brendan Ryan in the first week of May. It’s still so early that Jeter has raised his batting average 15 points in 2 games. Let’s come back to it in June.

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        1. bellweather22

          Chipper Jones hit .287/.377/.455 with 12 HRs his final year. Derek Jeter is hitting .262/.336/.327 with 1 HR. Chipper was a positive when he was on the field his final year, but needed to be rested twice a week to keep him going. Jeter is not giving much offensively and his defense is worse than the below average he gave when he was younger and healthy.

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  2. Steve

    The chelsea goal wouldnt be offside because either the pass went backwards, or the player recieving the pass was behind the ball when it was passed, hope that helps.

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    1. Scooter

      To elaborate on what Steve said: my understanding is that to be onside, you have to be behind two defenders (usually including the goalie) OR the ball. Any time the ball is closer to the goal than you are, you’re cool. (Offside is an anti-cherry-picking rule. If the ball’s in front of you, it’s not cherry-picking.)

      Man, I love these poscasts. The longer, the better!

      Reply
  3. Robert Lehner

    I like it when the Harvard guy says he doesn’t understand something (e.g. his iphone). Makes me feel better about not understandin’ stuff.
    Also, I love baseball, but I am not the least bit sad about the Jeter farewell tour and how poorly he is playing. I know, I’m a monster.

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  4. bl

    Another great Poscast! I was hoping the Rib post would be the prelude to a Food draft, though maybe that wouldn’t work since the first round picks are already known: Ribs and PB&Js. Maybe we could get a sports positions draft. That would be interesting.

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  5. resinsman

    Anyone else get a ‘jump’ around 8 minutes from Michael discussing run expectations to Joe talking about travelling in basketball game?

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  6. David

    Biggest thing left on the board, in my opinion, is something that doesn’t, as far as I can tell, have a name. I LOVE the penalty that, if you take too long getting your draft pick in, the next team gets to pick. It’s obvious, and it’s totally awesome. Especially because it actually HAPPENED a couple years ago. Scared a whole bunch of teams since they tend to milk just about every second they can out of those draft picks.

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  7. MCD

    Around 1999/2000, Chad Meyers of the Cubs was not awarded first base on two separate HBPs in a single game against the Cardinals for failure of trying to get out of the way of the pitch (or more accurately, intentionally moving his body into the strike zone to get hit)

    That was the last time I remember the umpires ever calling it that way, and Meyers was the culprit twice in the same game (2 different at-bats).

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  8. murr2825

    In 1968, Don Drysdale was working on his then-record 58(?) inning scoreless streak against the Giants. Dick Dietz was up with the bases loaded and Drysdale hit him, but the ump invoked the “failure to get out of the way” clause, Drysdale got Dietz out and continued his streak, which included 6(!) straight shutouts.

    All of the above is from memory cause I was too lazy to look it up, but I’m pretty sure it’s right.

    Great Poscast, btw.

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  9. civil writes

    A few years ago, Kurt Suzuki swung at a pitch that hit him in the back. It was strike three.

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  10. Pat

    “Offsides”… sheesh. Old-timey managers still fall in love with multi-sport players.

    “Icing”: It’s a penalty! It’s a dessert topping! It’s a penalty and a dessert topping!

    Huge value pick left on the board in the infield fly rule.

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  11. Cuban X Senators

    It’s actually only offsides in American Football, but hardly a Yank ever let that stop him from adding the “s” in football or hockey (or rugby).

    Reply
    1. Cuban X Senators

      Hmm, it appears that it’s not really “offsides” in American football either, & it’s just a Yank colloquialism to add the “s” to the word.

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      1. MCD

        While I am aware when someone says “offsides” in American football, it doesn’t bother me. But when I here an announcer refer to an “onsides kick” instead of “onside kick” it drives me absolutely crazy.

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      2. Pat

        There’s a similar split in “toward”/”towards,” although in the opposite direction.

        MCD, try and let that go. There are things over which it is worth worth dying angry. This… isn’t one.

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        1. MCD

          Good advice. Can I still get mad when the announcer refers to a “shovel pass” as a “shuffle pass”?

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          1. Pat

            Oh, now this is going to bug me. I saw something on television at one point about where in the country they call it “shuffle” and where the “shovel” pass… but I can’t remember where or when.

            Shoot.

  12. Mike

    Icing is basically the Batting Average of hockey. Instead of opting for a black-and-white rule, they add in a bunch of exceptions to try to get at the “spirit” of something.

    Batting average is essentially asking: when the pitcher gives you enough stuff to hit, how good are you at hitting it and getting on base safely?

    Icing is essentially saying: you aren’t allowed to just fire the puck out of the zone in a panic. But if you can convince us it was a long pass to a teammate, then we’re cool with it. Also, we won’t hold it against you for firing it out of the zone if you’re a man down, because, look, we’re not heartless.

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  13. Cliff Clavin

    Being able to ice the puck when you’re man down is quite possibly the dumbest rule in sports. So you get a penalty for breaking a rule and as a consequence we will allow you to break a different rule for the next two minutes? How does that make sense? It’d be like in football if you got called for intentional grounding so we allowed you to hold anyone you want for the rest of that possession. Just dumb.

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  14. J Hench

    My first thought when I read that you were drafting Sports Penalties was the double technical foul. I was thinking of the penalty itself, as opposed to the action which is penalized, but I still think the double technical at least deserves a mention:

    A player on the opposing team gets for shots from the free throw line (which are pretty much 4 free points, though even pros still miss occasionally)…

    And gets the ball (setting them up for another chance to manage the clock AND score again (though they still need to execute))…

    And the player called for the double technical gets ejected.

    That basically checks off every box. The only thing missing is to make the penalized team play a man down for some period of time. But other than that, I have difficulty thinking of a penalty that could change the game more.

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  15. bellweather22

    My fave is the call youth ball umps consistently get wrong. Many seem to believe the myth that a pitch in the dirt that hits the batter is just a ball, not a hit batsman. This is stupid in so many ways, because obviously a pitch in the dirt is not a dead ball. I actually had our league reprint the rule and staple it to the outside of the rule books they pass out…. And the umps still messed it up. I must have dragged the rule book out to that argument a half dozen times.

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    1. MCD

      The one that I most often bumped heads with little league umpires is the myth that the “baserunner must turn right” when running thru first base. Contrary to what 90% of what the umpires thought, the foul line is immaterial, the runner must merely return to 1B immediately without making an attempt to advance to second.

      The runner can be in fair territory without making an attempt or conversely make an attempt while still in foul territory, it is strictly the umpire’s judgement. I had umpires freely admit the runner didn’t attempt to make second, but claim it didn’t matter because he was in fair territory (ignoring the fact that because first base is in fair territory, the runner *has* to be in fair territory for at least a nanosecond)

      Reply
  16. Kuz

    Waited with baited breathe for the balk rule. Most mysterious rule in baseball. And stop picking on Jeter.

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  17. Kuz

    PS: and I guess it’s not a penalty, but the fourth out rule in baseball has always been one of my favorites.

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  18. Damon Rutherford

    “Huge value pick left on the board in the infield fly rule.”

    I would not consider the “infield fly rule” to be a penalty.

    My top five penalties, excluding the ones picked by Joe and Michael, presuming I remember their picks correctly:

    1. Football – defensive offsides – free play for the offense! It’s enjoyable to watch an offense take a huge risk on the play knowing that worst case, they replay the down (due to offsetting penalties), then, second worst case, they receive five yards for the defensive offside. But if the play is successful, they can decline the penalty. Awesome.

    2. Baseball – fan interference – this is especially important if the *home team* fan interferes that negatively affects his team. What a dumbass!

    3. Basketball – double dribble – because of the alliteration, because of how it forces the offense to pass or shoot once they stop dribbling, and because it’s the name of my favorite basketball video game.

    4. Golf – moving your ball when not permitted even though it’s in a horrible lie – I’m not keen on the particulars, but the existence of this penalty and the choice many golfers make to avoid this penalty results in some exciting shots in the strangest of situations.

    5. Soccer – again, not certain of the particulars, but the free kick that occurs, likely due to use of hands or tripping or whatever that results in most of the other team lined up as a wall between the ball and the goal. Of course all the players have their hands over their groin areas, just in case. Fun!

    Reply
    1. Dr. G

      I think any penalty that can possibly be declined is an amazing penalty. It’s essentially telling the other team that their performance on the play was so bad, the penalty is unnecessary and can be tossed back into the ether.

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      1. Damon Rutherford

        I think the option to decline a penalty is present only in football when considering the professional, televised sports. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

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  19. Josh L

    Unsportsmanlike conduct mostly covers diving (flopping). It’s also sometimes used for mouthing off to the refs or trollish antics like facewashing (smothering another players face with your glove during a scrum).

    Reply

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