Joe Posnanski
Menu
  • Home
  • Canadian pharmacy premarin
  • Passions in America
  • The Athletic
  • Baseball 100
  • Side effects of neurontin
  • About Joe
    • Cialis professional 40 mg
Menu

Gretzky and Draymond

Posted on February 1, 2016September 22, 2016 by Ventolin hfa

A couple of SportsWorld links for this Monday morning:

Draymond Green: Draymond Green provides a language problem …

Wayne Gretzky: Trying to define Wayne Gretzky’s greatness without reverting to those amazing numbers …

Have something coming later today on Novak Djokovic, something coming on Peyton Manning, something coming on the Bruce Springsteen concert I saw in Washington and so on.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

Share this:

  • Share
  • Email
  • Twitter
  • Facebook
  • Print

16 thoughts on “Gretzky and Draymond”

  1. bellweather22 says:
    February 1, 2016 at 3:36 pm

    My son, to a much lesser extent of course, is like Draymond Green. He averages 9 points, 7 rebound and 2.5 assists in High School. He is the team’s best defensive player by far & can, and does play all five positions. He starts at forward, is the backup point guard and sometimes guards the post. He does this at 6′ 2″. He’s the 4th best scorer on the team and does lead the team in rebounding. But when he’s not on the floor, the team is demonstrably worse off. The parents that watch him play every game get it & often remark that he’s the best player on the team. But if you don’t watch every game, especially if you rely on the numbers, he looks like the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. You have to watch what Draymond Green does every night or it’s never going to compute. That’s the problem, of course, with the draft. You look at the measurables of size, speed and vertical jump. You look at the stats. And you completely miss what kind of player he is & his importance to the team.

    Reply
  2. ericanadian says:
    February 1, 2016 at 3:46 pm

    Growing up as a Flames fan in Calgary, I can’t say as I knew many people who liked Gretzky. I also still feel like Bobby Orr is the greatest of all time.

    Reply
  3. BobDD says:
    February 1, 2016 at 4:59 pm

    Every time I hear people trying to explain how Wayne Gretzky wasn’t the greatest, they end up merely describing what he overcame to become the greatest.

    Reply
  4. otistaylor89 says:
    February 1, 2016 at 8:00 pm

    Bias because I saw most of Bobby Orr’s games in the early 70’s, but don’t see Gretzky being a better player. Both played on teams that had a lot talent, although Gretzky’s goalies were probably better. I have a big question of the level of talent the teams the 80’s Oilers played against in the West or lack there of. Orr went up against top level talent on a higher percentage bases and generally made them look foolish – while playing on bad knees. Gretzky played very little defense because he didn’t need to, while Orr was the best defenseman in the league as well as being a great offensive force.

    Reply
    1. Stephen says:
      February 1, 2016 at 9:51 pm

      One thing that always needs to be kept in mind when thinking about Orr’s career is the effect of expansion.

      When he came into the league, there were six teams. By the time Orr’s career was effectively over, less than ten years later (’74-’75), that number had tripled to 18. That’s a LOT of dilution of talent.

      Yes, Orr was excellent in his rookie season, when there were still just six teams’ worth of players; yes, Orr was able to take advantage of the spread of talent in a way that few other players of his time were able to match.

      But there’s no question that there was a steady stream of new players into the league throughout Orr’s career, players who wouldn’t have been in the NHL if the number of teams had remained at six. These players were not close to Orr’s talent level, and their presence on the ice made him seem more effective than he perhaps actually was. If there had been six teams throughout his career, it’s doubtful from where I sit that he would have seemed quite so dominant.

      Reply
      1. ericanadian says:
        February 2, 2016 at 12:02 am

        Expansion certainly didn’t help things during Gretzky’s time. We ended up with a bunch of coaches deciding that the best way to compete using inferior talent was the trap and it was a huge reason for scoring taking a dive.

        Reply
      2. John says:
        February 3, 2016 at 3:27 am

        The biggest problem with that argument is that it doesn’t allow for the fact that the NHL was even more diluted in Gretzky’s time. Bobby Orr never referred to another franchise as Mickey Mouse as Wayne did.

        Reply
    2. Darrel says:
      February 3, 2016 at 5:21 am

      Growing up an Oilers fan it pains me to say this but if not the Oilers the Flames would have been multiple cup winners. That team was great but their timing was awful. To say the talent in the west was less in the 80’s means you weren’t watching the games. Even those Jets teams were very good but cursed to play in the same division with Oil and Flames. My admittedly biased opinion is Gretzky is the GOAT. You can argue otherwise of course but saying the west was no good in his era is not how I’d go about it.

      Reply
  5. NevadaMark says:
    February 2, 2016 at 12:42 am

    Bobby Orr was of course a great, great player. But he was hurt A LOT and hung em up early. Isn’t staying healthy an important skill when you are talking about the greatest of all time?

    Reply
    1. otistaylor89 says:
      February 2, 2016 at 1:09 am

      He actually miss very few games – out of his 9 full seasons he missed almost half his 2nd year about 15 his 2nd to last year. Orr lead the league in games his last full year with 80. He played 9 mostly full seasons by age 26.

      Reply
  6. jalabar says:
    February 2, 2016 at 12:52 pm

    Bobby Orr… statistically, Coffey was close. I have heard New Englanders call Ray Bourque the best defenseman ever, meaning it’s not totally clear that Orr was the best defenseman in Bruin history, much less NHL. I personally think Lidstrom was every bit the defenseman Orr was, in a different (changed) League. Gretzky, statistically no one is close. Orr was the greatest defenseman of all-time. Gretzky was the greatest forward. Hasek was probably the greatest goalie. I rank them Gretz, Orr, Hasek.

    Reply
  7. Kent Morgan says:
    February 2, 2016 at 5:56 pm

    Living in Winnipeg, we saw Gretzky, Messier and the Oilers beat the Jets many times and I always said Wayne was the greatest player. Sometimes that was just to irritate my friends with whom I shared season tickets who didn’t like Gretzky for obvious reasons. Truthfully, I think those of us who grew up playing hockey (and still play) and know the game would agree that Bobby Orr was the best defenseman. Not so sure about Gretzky at forward despite his scoring achievements. While the game has changed so much over the years with more speed and size, I expect here in Western Canada many might take Gordie Howe in his prime as their first choice if they were starting a team. He could do it all and did it for the longest time.

    Reply
  8. BobDD says:
    February 2, 2016 at 10:12 pm

    Bobby Orr more defense, but Don Rickles most offensive puckster?

    Reply
  9. pjr1427 says:
    February 3, 2016 at 4:54 pm

    Minor note: Steve Young’s injury came not from a linebacker, but from a safety (Aeneas Williams). It was Lawrence Phillips’ job to pick up Williams.

    Reply
  10. puckpaul11 says:
    February 7, 2016 at 3:17 am

    a few thoughts on Gretzky here. for one, watching what i consider to be the greatest hockey ever played, the 1987 Canada Cup, it is astonishing to watch Gretzky shift after shift create scoring opportunities. i have seen no one else in hockey ever do that. great players seem to always break out at some point in a game, but Gretzky did it ALL the TIME. his consistency at the great heights that he reached was one of his greatest attributes, and he came to play nearly every night in his prime…that was a key reason he racked up so many points. even if it was against lesser competition at times, the fact that he cared to keep playing to his fullest shouldn’t penalize him here.

    i also watched Gretzky turn ordinary or worse players into scoring wizards…Chris Kontos for a spell on the LA Kings. Dave Semenko, essentially a bodyguard, scored 26 goals one year i believe. i recall watching Gretzky cut across the offensive zone just inside the blue line, drawing attention his way, and then flip an impossibly gorgeous back hand pass against the grain right onto Kontos’s stick open on the opposite side of the goal, from where Kontos scored easily.

    Best? who knows? Lemieux in his prime was unstoppable and had he been healthy could have challenged Gretzky of many records. but he seemed to not reach Gretzky’s vision of the game, the one aspect for which i doubt there was a better player. Orr, Howe, and others….really impossible to compare. does it matter? Gretzky was a marvel to watch. That Oilers team is still my favorite team to watch play, so fast and skilled with great personality and drive.

    Reply
  11. Jim LaBrie says:
    February 23, 2016 at 8:31 pm

    Joe – did you ever post your Springsteen story? (Or am I missing it?)

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Become a JoeBlogs Member!

Archives

  • February 2019
  • January 2019
  • December 2018
  • November 2018
  • October 2018
  • September 2018
  • August 2018
  • July 2018
  • June 2018
  • May 2018
  • April 2018
  • March 2018
  • February 2018
  • January 2018
  • December 2017
  • November 2017
  • October 2017
  • September 2017
  • August 2017
  • July 2017
  • June 2017
  • May 2017
  • April 2017
  • March 2017
  • February 2017
  • January 2017
  • December 2016
  • November 2016
  • October 2016
  • September 2016
  • August 2016
  • July 2016
  • June 2016
  • May 2016
  • April 2016
  • March 2016
  • February 2016
  • January 2016
  • December 2015
  • November 2015
  • October 2015
  • September 2015
  • August 2015
  • July 2015
  • June 2015
  • May 2015
  • April 2015
  • March 2015
  • February 2015
  • January 2015
  • December 2014
  • November 2014
  • October 2014
  • September 2014
  • August 2014
  • July 2014
  • June 2014
  • May 2014
  • April 2014
  • March 2014
  • February 2014
  • January 2014
  • December 2013
  • November 2013
  • October 2013
  • September 2013
  • August 2013
  • July 2013
  • June 2013
  • May 2013
  • April 2013
  • March 2013
  • February 2013
  • January 2013
  • December 2012
  • November 2012
  • October 2012
  • September 2012
  • August 2012
  • July 2012
  • June 2012
  • May 2012
  • April 2012
  • March 2012
  • February 2012
  • January 2012
  • December 2011
  • November 2011
  • October 2011
  • September 2011
  • August 2011
  • July 2011
  • June 2011
  • May 2011
  • April 2011
  • March 2011
  • February 2011
  • January 2011
  • December 2010
  • November 2010
  • October 2010
  • September 2010
  • August 2010
  • June 2010
  • May 2010
  • January 2010
  • April 2009
  • September 2008
  • September 2007
  • April 2003
©2019 Joe Posnanski
loading Cancel
Post was not sent - check your email addresses!
Email check failed, please try again
Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email.