The Quisenberry Tree
Posted: July 1st, 2010 | Filed under: Baseball | 89 Comments »
I know this will sound preposterously weird and insensitive and utterly non-green … but I’m glad this Dan Quisenberry tree thing happened. Ecstatic, really. I know. It surprises me too. But you have to give me a moment to explain.
First, you probably need to hear the story. Dan Quisenberry was one of my favorite people. We met late in his life, when he was more poet than pitcher. I suppose in many ways, Dan was always more poet than pitcher. The first time I ever really talked to him was at a poetry reading he was giving in a small library in Overland Park — a suburb of Kansas City. And you know how sometimes you meet someone and you are just struck by how wonderful it is to talk with them, how awesome it is to be around them, how good they make you feel not only about them but about yourself. Yeah. it was like that with Dan. It was like that with Buck O’Neil. It is like that with my father. Dan was this gentle man who wanted to know, really wanted to know, how you were doing, how your family was doing, how you were handling life. There are people who ask those questions. There are people who really and truly care. It’s a gift, caring, and Dan Quisenberry had that gift.
He was also one helluva pitcher. Baseball fans as a whole will never appreciate just how good Dan Quisenberry was. When Bruce Sutter went into the Hall of Fame, I went a bit crazy comparing their careers — and after spending too much time working on it I have little doubt that Quiz was every bit as good a pitcher as Sutter and perhaps better. They pitched almost exactly the same number of innings (1043.1 for Quiz, 1042 for Sutter) and Quisenberry gave up fewer runs (earned and unearned) in the designated hitter league. Quiz had a better ERA in their prime years (2.48 to 2.54). Quiz finished second in the Cy Young balloting twice, third twice more, led the league in saves five times (same as Sutter), won five Rolaids Relief awards (one more than Sutter), threw 30 to 40 more innings per year than Sutter did, and as I broke it down was much better than Sutter in the heat of pennant races. I have pages and pages and pages of statistics, and I wouldn’t tell you that Dan was better than Sutter, but I will tell you that no matter how you break it down it is at best a wash, and if Sutter was a Hall of Famer then, in my mind, so was Quiz.
Quiz was competitive — no question he wanted to be the best in the game. There’s no way you can be that brilliant without striving for it. Greatness doesn’t happen by accident. But he achieved so softly, with that funny little submarine style delivery and very few strikeouts and a sinking fastball that probably did not qualify for the second-half of the title.
I’m sure that’s why he has been so overlooked. He never seemed great. That’s how it goes for the quietly efficient. You know what made Quisenberry such a fabulous pitcher? He rarely made a mistake. If you put a team together of players who came closest to their potential, who best resembled their perfect baseball selves, Dan Quisenberry would be on the mound. He almost never walked a batter — he unintentionally walked just 92 batters in more than 1,000 innings. Absurd. In 1980, he intentionally walked more batters than he unintentionally walked. He threw four wild pitches in his career. Four. He gave up very few home runs.
See, Quiz just didn’t get the ball up and he didn’t find the middle of the plate. He fielded his position, and he threw strikes, and he relied on the grass (or turf) and his defense and the karma he had built up through the years. It’s like I said: Dan was probably always more poet than pitcher. Sutter’s greatness was bright and bold and apparent — his a Vegas magic show with lights and props and mirrors, his split-fingered fastball would disappear before your very eyes. Quiz was more of a close-up magician. You never knew how he did it.
It wasn’t long after that poetry reading that we all heard that Dan had a brain tumor. He was a thoughtful man, Quiz — deeply religious, dedicated to his family, powerfully connected to what is important in life. He offered many wonderful quotes in his life — “I’ve seen the future and it’s much like the present, only longer” is probably the most famous* — but it was his heartfelt words as he held his wife Janie’s hands weeks before he died, that I will never ever forget.
He said, “I never ask ‘Why me.’ Why not me?’”
*The thing that strikes me about Dan’s quotes, even now, is that they’re so perfectly worded. He was an artist. Take a simple quote like this one, from his acceptance speech at one of the Rolaids Relief functions: “I want to thank all the pitchers who couldn’t go nine innings, and manager Dick Howser for not letting them.” I mean, that’s just a little quote, mostly in fun, but read it again — it’s perfect, not a wasted word, Gettysburg Address concise.
Or this: “I found a delivery in my flaw.”
Or this: “Natural grass is a wonderful thing for little bugs and sinkerball pitchers.”
Not a wasted word. I don’t believe I’ve ever written this before — for obvious reasons — but almost at the end of his life, Dan told me that he loved the way I wrote because it’s the way he tries to write. It’s one of the three greatest compliments of my life.
So that’s the background. When Dan died in September of 1998, his memorial service was one of those impossibly sad and impossibly beautiful things — he was only 45, way too young to die. But you saw all the people he touched, the two beautiful children he and Janie had raised, the many friends who all had a story to tell, and you understood what a good life he had lived.
And Dan has been remembered. Kansas City is the sort of town that remembers — I suppose like most other good-hearted places. His name would come up in conversation. People would stop and point at his photo at the Royals Hall of Fame. When you saw adults playing ball, you would inevitably see one throw submarine style and shout “Quisenberry!” Yes, he has been remembered.
But, memory fades too. There’s simply no way around it. Dan stopped pitching baseballs in Kansas City in 1988. Children have been born, raised, learned to ride bicycles, fallen in and out of love, graduated high school and college since then. Dan’s two children, Alysia and David, have grown up. I have watched Alysia’s child run around. Time goes on.
And so … now I can tell you about that tree. In 1999, a tree was planted along the highway across from Kauffman Stadium in the honor of Dan Quisenberry. Kids came and shoveled in the dirt, there was a little memorial plaque put next to it — it was a sweet and thoughtful thing, a tree for Quisenberry overlooking the stadium across the road. And you probably heard what happened this week: A highway crew, by mistake, tore down that tree while widening the highway. The Missouri Department of Transportation people sound mortified by this blunder, beyond mortified, and they promise to plant another tree and hold another ceremony for Dan Quisenberry. This was clearly an honest mistake, though it is so weird and so emotionally-bracing that it has created national headlines.
And this is why I’m oddly thrilled that the tree thing happened. Of course I’m not happy when any tree — especially memorial trees — gets torn down. I’d rather it hadn’t happened and embarrassed people and all that. But, overall, the destruction of this tree has put Dan Quisenberry back in the memory. Let’s face it: Almost nobody knew about that tree. That should be obvious since the highway people didn’t know about it. A tree that was put up to help people remember was lost in the forest. Time goes on.
But NOW people do remember. Now, there will be another tree and people will know about it. Now, I have an excuse to write about Dan again. Now, after this, people can take a moment and think again about Dan Quisenberry, his wonderful pitching style, his eloquence (“I don’t miss the cheers. I just go to the ballpark, sit in the stands, and pretend they’re cheering for me”), his character. He never claimed to be a role model, he just was one. And that tree, in its own quirky way, did exactly what it had been planted to do. It did get people to remember Dan Quisenberry. And that’s why I’m happy.
* * *
On September 27, they will hold the last Dan Quisenberry charity golf tournament at Shadow Glen in Kansas City to raise money for the Harvesters food bank (it is Dan and Janie who got me involved with Harvester’s). Their long shot goal is to raise $110,000 because that would bring the grand total of money raised in these tournaments to a million dollars. I will be there, as usual, to moderate the post-golf event. If you live in Kansas City, or will be in Kansas City, or have a little bit of Dan in your heart, you can find out more information and help out here.
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Really beautiful, Joe.
Great story, great pitcher, great man.
Here’s an odd fact about Quiz’s career that I have for some reason remembered all these years. He didn’t get to bat until he went to the Cardinals, and in his first time at the plate after a decade or so in the big leagues … he drew a walk.
God bless this post, Joe… My favorite quote from Quiz was about nuclear weapons and the Kingdome… LOL
I remember as a kid taking food to Royals Stadium on Harvester nights, and getting little B&W autographed players cards from various players’ wives stationed around the stadium… And, taking food as an adult to Royals Stadium in 1998 on Dan Quizenberry Day…
Dan was one of the greatest PEOPLE to ever play the game, or any game… Those of us from KC should be proud to call him our own…
Hard to believe that Quiz AND Buck O’Neill aren’t in the Baseball Hall of Fame… Pretty amazing when you consider how great they both were on and off the field…
Amen…
Quiet, humorous, always good for a quote, Dan Quisenberry was a nice counterpoint to the outgoing personalities of Geroge Brett and Hal MacRae and no less important.
Good point about the loss of the tree causing us to remember.
And your readers share his thoughts about your writing.
Great story, and for sure he was a fantastic pitcher, and obvious a great man.
As a Blue Jays fan growing up, I remember a lot of saves…and just looked it up, and sure enough he saved more games against the Blue Jays then any other team.
When Mark Eichhorn had his great season for the Jays in 1986, it was like we had our own version of Dan. Eichhorn was only 5 innings away from qualifying for the ERA title, yet he refused a chance to pitch those innings at the end of the season, as he didn’t feel he’d deserve the title.
Seems that would have been something Dan would have done as well.
Thanks for the memory – Quiz was simply himself.
Beautifully written Joe, thank you so much!
I was glad the tree was ripped out, too, because I’m hopeful it serves to force the Royals to do something a bit more permanent at the actual stadium to honor Dan. Maybe not a statue or a retired number, but would it kill them, or even cost them any money, to formally named the Royals’ bullpen “The Dan Quisenberry Bullpen”? Or, since Dan was fond of turning on a hose and watering down the fans in right field on hot summer days, how about naming the right field seats near the bullpen “The Quisenberry Zone”? How about painting one of Dan’s quotes on the facing of the bullpen? I mean, this isn’t that hard, right?
I love the Quisenberry pitch. My dad out in the street throwing me pitches, and about one out of ten he would warn me as he threw the side arm… “Quis…en….berrrrry!”
I love that pitch. I will always be confused when an announcer says he throws sidearm. I have to think a bit, and realize, oh, he means he throws a Quisenberry.
It’s funny… when I was coming of age as a baseball fan from about ’82 to ’84, there wasn’t anybody I feared more than Quisenberry. I’ve always been shocked by how little people seem to remember him compared to some of his contemporaries.
And then there’s this, which probably contributed to my Quisenberry esteem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOxs4yvcni4
Joe,
Every time I tune in, there’s something wonderful and powerful on this channel.
Thank you.
As a life-long Phillies fan, my biggest memory of Dan Quisenberry was him getting roughed up pretty good in the 1980 World Series. I always remember thinking, even at 9 years old, that if he had pitched like himself in that series, we would have lost in 5.
Joe, I’ve always thought you were a terrific writer, but I feel like I understand it a little better after reading this article. It’s not that you’re a great writer (although you are), it’s that you’re a wonderful human being who happens to write.
Thanks for the blog, Joe.
Even me, an east coast NL fan who couldn’t really give a rats’ pattooie about the AL, (and hated the Yankees) loved seeing and hearing about genuinely good guys who were great in the AL — Brett (will he hit .400 or not?) and “the Quiz” were two such players.
And, yes, when I was a kid, and liked to imitate other pitchers . . . when I threw submarine, it was, at first, the “Ted Abernathy throw” and then, later, the “Kent Tekulve” and “Dan Quisenberry” throw . . .
I think this video captures so many things that I remember about Quiz – his wonderful pitching motion, his warm personna, and his skills with a hose.
Oh, and did I mention cheesy 80s production, Johnny Bench, the San Diego Chicken, kids playing baseball in jeans, and a cameo by the Kool-Aid man?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzXZadeeGWo&NR=1
You don’t need to say Quiz was better, I will say it. Quiz was better than Sutter. Sutter shouldn’t be in the HOF.
I remember getting sprayed by the hose by Quiz from the bullpen when sitting in GA as a kid. Also doing the Quiz pitch playing wiffle ball as a kid.
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Dear Facilities Dept:
Once again I am forced to write you about the air quality in my cubicle. It gets dusty very quickly and stuff gets in my eyes. It bothers my allergies. And by the way, anybody over there remember Dan Quisenberry?
Sincerely,
nightfly
Growing up, my favorite pitcher (Cards fan) was Joaquin Andujar. The pitcher, I most liked to imitate when I was throwing the ball around the backyard was Dan Quisenberry. For some reason, throwing the submarine sinker was a whole lot of fun. For me, it was probably because I always threw sidearm, just never could go over the top for some reason, so watching Quiz have great success gave me some hope, I think, of being a productive ballplayer. I was thrilled when the Cards got him in the late 80′s. I knew he was out of gas, but he was still a productive member of the pen. Thanks for reminding me of what a great person and pitcher he was Joe.
Also, Quiz is a HOF, and so is Bruce Sutter for all those questioning him.
The night that Dan was inducted in to the Royals’ HOF was easily one of the most emotional nights I have ever had at the ballpark.
First off, I was given the seats right behind home plate and was sitting within an arms reach of Buck. The paper that morning said that Dan was too ill and may not make the ceremony but his family would be there.
Everyone was on the field, they said the wonderful words about a great man and then when the music started (I believe it was the theme from the Natural) his family appeared, walking Dan from the dugout – weak but still getting it done.
I don’t know that I have ever cried so hard at a ballpark as I did at that moment (hell, tearing up right now just thinking about that emotion).
As fans, especially fans of sub par teams, are always trying to create personalities and magic from nothing. Look at the pressure we put on a player like Soria to be the “Mexicutioner” or Grienke or many others. Dan never needed the fans to make something out of him – he just was.
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Great post Joe. I remember growing up playing wiffle ball in the backyard with my brother. I always “brought in” Quiz to close it out, and of course, I always got the win! What a great person, and great ball player. Hopefully the Royals will notice this and do something more than just put him in their Hall of Fame.
Quiz was one of the guys everyone wanted to see when they went to the ballpark. As a kid, my folks took me and my brothers to two games a year. We loved Brett, White and the rest, but I think all of us wanted to see Quiz pitch more than anything. Growing up during that magical run that KC had, I can’t think of anyone who embodied it more than Dan Quisenberry. He had grit, wisdom and a great submarine pitch. Brett may be Mr. Royal, but I bet not very many people remember his batting stance. Everyone remembers how Quiz pitched. He should have a statue right next to Dick Howser.
forget a tree, time for a statue @ the K. I hope someone in the front office realizes this would be a great thing.
This is why Kansas City loves you.
When I first heard about the tree being mistakenly torn down, I thought about how Quiz would have probably laughed like crazy at the irony.
Joe,
You need no excuse to write about anything.
Why do you think we’re all here?
[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Quisenberry Tree [...]
I agree with Jeremy C above at comment 12 about this blog:
“Every time I tune in, there’s something wonderful and powerful on this channel. Thank you.”
And I agree Paul White at 9 – let’s do something bigger for Quiz. It would be a great statute of him pitching submarine style.
But, I disagree with Joe about Sutter versus Quiz, regardless of what the stats say. I loved Quiz, and he obviously was a very good pitcher and a great guy, but Sutter was unhittable for four or five years with the Cubs and on TV every day. He “invented” a pitch. It is the Hall of Fame. Sutter was just on the plus side of the Hall of Fame line and Quiz is on the other side.
I remember sitting right behind home plate at a meaningless September game in Quiz’s rookie year. I saw a middle of the road left handed batter hit a bomb home run to right field and concluded that Quiz was too easy for lefties to hit and would never make it. Glad I was totally wrong.
A new favorite every day. Unbelievable. You’re incredible, Joe.
Growing up a Yankee fan, I hated Dan Quizenberry . I hated that he was so good, and played for the wrong team, and I knew the game was lost when he came in. As I grow older, as with everyone, I separated the man from the team and the sport. When I heard he was sick, and later passed on – it was the loss of a good man, not a rival. Thanks Joe for making us remember, once again, a good man – and thanks to the Missouri DOT, too.
I realize the DH is here to stay, but after Quiz played in the national league, his opinion was that no-DH was a better game.
Twins fans loved and feared Quisenberry. I echo the sentiments of many other readers — fine post, Joe.
I always thought Bill James summed up Quiz perfectly when discussing how Dick Howser outfoxed Bobby Cox in 1985: in nearly every Royals game, as soon as the fifth inning started Dan Quisenberry became the center of both managers’ strategic thinking. Even though Howser wasn’t going to be bringing Dan in to pitch in the fifth, the opposing manager had to make any moves from that point with Quisenberry’s looming presence in mind.
Post linked at Beltway Baseball.
Joe – I think you’ve got a real future in this writing dealie. Bravo again, I like you more and more everyday. I could read you writing the phone book – as they sort of say.
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@nightfly:
We must work in the same building, ’cause it just got dusty as a mug up in my cube. Thanks, Joe, for sharing your gift with such uniqueness, frequency.
There aren’t many relievers in the HoF. Just Eckersley, Sutter, Gossage, Fingers and Hoyt Wilhelm. There is no benchmark for enshrinement, either. No 3000 hits, no 500 HRs and no 300 wins.
It’s not ERA+, as Quisenberry’s 146 is higher than those of Sutter, Gossage, Eckersley and Fingers. It’s not saves, since Lee Smith is still trying despite having the most saves of any eligible pitcher.
Your guess is as good as mine as to why Quisenberry was totally ignored (1 year on the ballot, 3.8% of the vote) while Sutter got in (albeit on his 13th try). Must have been the splitter and Sutter’s one Cy Young award, which points to the voodoo-ish nature of HoF voting when it comes to relievers.
It was a great story about a good man. It also struck and reminded me that my Dad died in 1988. My Dad is why I played baseball until I was 29. If you go to the youtube Quisenberry site, it reminds you of how good those Royals were back when.
The thing about your writing, Joe, isn’t that it’s clever or flawless or that you can construct a compound, complex sentence.
The thing about your writing is this: You make us wish we knew the people and places you tell us about.
You make us care.
Joe, I have to say that ” A tree that was put up to help people remember was lost in the forest. Time goes on.” is one of the most striking lines I have read in years. I really enjoy reading your work, and am grateful that there is a thing called the internet that allows a Torontonian like myself (who, incidentally, remembers Quisenberry dominating my beloved Blue Jays throughout the 80′s) to read your work.
My memory is that Quiz was starting to slip in 2005, although his numbers were still very good and he was 3rd in CYA. I’m surprised he would have had that much of an effect in the Toronto series. He was hit pretty good — 7 hits and 4 runs in 4 innings, losing one game and saving one.
I do remember Howser out managing Cox by switching from righty to leftie and forcing Cox’s platoon system into action prematurely. Howser would start a righty, switch to a lefty with resulting pinch hitters by Cox, and then Howswer would go back to a righty.
I also remember being surprised when Quiz definitely started slipping the next year at age 33. The word in KC was that even though he never threw hard, he lost something off his spped and, as a result, lost some of his effectiveness.
Awesome.
Why the last Dan Quisenberry charity golf tournament? Could this tree tragedy lead to more? Hope so.
KC Oracle @45:
I’m surprised he would have had that much of an effect in the Toronto series. He was hit pretty good — 7 hits and 4 runs in 4 innings, losing one game and saving one.
It was all about Al Oliver and Rance Mulliniks. Early in the series, Cox had managed to make his platoon work; in game 2, it was a pinch-hitting Oliver who stroked the walk-off single off Quiz in extras, and in game four he pinch-hit doubled in the ninth off Quiz to put the Jays ahead. Oliver had a .944 OPS in the series, and Mulliniks was the Blue Jays offensive MVP in the series, sporting a shiny 1.189.
Howser outsmarted Cox by starting Saberhagen in game seven — meaning Oliver and Mulliniks started — then yanking Bret and replacing him with Liebrandt in the fourth despite the fact that the Royals were winning. Bang, RoboCox pinch-hit for both Mulliniks and Oliver (Oliver, being no fool, understood exactly what Howser had done, and was caught on camera taking his frustration out on his batting helmet in the dugout), and voila, no nasty left-handed bats to trouble the mighty Quisenberry when he showed up in the ninth.
Ray @47: Joe answered this on Facebook, so I’ll pass it along for him here: the family has basically decided the event has run its course and it’s time to move on.
I am so glad that I found this blog. It it very interesting. I had fun reading it. I will be visiting this blog more often.
So this is not about Quiz, who I certainly acknowldge sounds like he was an awesome dude.
What I want to say is that if I could have one sportswriting wish this year, I would wish for Joe to write about Luis Suarez
hmm, the first one said it didn’t work. sorry for the double.
I met Quiz once, at a Royals Caravan-type event at a University of Missouri basketball game after the 1985 World Series … must’ve been January ’86. I was a student there and stood near the end of a long line of folks getting player autographs.
When I finally came to the table Quiz was sitting closest to me and looked tired. I figured he’d heard enough comments and questions about baseball and what a great pitcher he was and stuff, so I thought I’d take a different tack.
I asked him, “How’s the Harvesters going?”
He suddenly looked up right at me, with interest, and said, “You know about the Harvesters?”
I said yeah, I’d read about them, thought they were a great charity and respected his work with them.
He said they were doing well and mentioned something about how much food they’d recently accumulated. He autographed the card and handed it to me. I said thanks and he said, with utmost sincerity, looking right at me, “Thank you very much. Take care.”
A small anecdote. But one that has stayed with me. I don’t even remember other players at that event (well, I think Biancalana was one of them). But I always remember Quiz.
I have little affiliation with KC except for Joe’s stuff so I had not heard of the Quiz tree story. I did not know one existed and I, until this column by Pos, did not know that it no longer exists thanks to a Missouri DOT crew. I think I agree with the earlier BR who said that Quiz would be laughing harder than anyone about the demise of that poor tree.
So, can anyone describe this tree’s (former)
location with regard to the Stadium and Highway? What an interesting story – It’s perfectly midwestern, a Kansas City tale all it’s own! Didn’t Quiz wear #29? Perhaps they should plant 29 trees along a stretch of road leading to the ballpark. Never hurts to have a little more shade on a hot July day in KC, MO!
#48 – Amazing about 1985 ALCS game 7. I didn’t know Sabes started and that Oliver and Mulliniks got pulled because of Howser’s brilliance. I wish I could get a copy of that game.
[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Quisenberry Tree [...]
since google maps doesn’t update that quickly maybe someone in the know could post us a pic of said tree.
I think I’ve had three favourite closers growing up Tekulve, Quis and Henke.
Quiz should have his number retired along with Brett, White and Howser.
I don’t know whose where KC oracle (#31) gets the idea that Sutter had a better prime.
During the main 6 year prime for each (which includes for both the 1981 strike season), Quisenberry appeared in 46 more games, had 130.1 innings pitched, 28 more saves, a better ERA even in the more offensive AL, and obviously a better ERA+. He had 2.0 more WAR.
Despite the fact that Sutter won the Cy Young one year, Quiz had 105 more Cy votes during his prime and 149 more MVP votes.
Sutter did not invent the splitter, it was adapted from the forkball and spitball motions in the 1950′s. I will give Oracle one point- he did play on TV every day.
PS- he also had 7 less losses in that span
As a man born and raised in Seattle I would have never heard of Quiz’s tree. Thanks to an honest mistake I have now been blessed with: A) an amazing story, but that is why I come here every day. B) The memories of my own submarine style as a kid in the 80′s, I would have said a ton of guys pitched like that as a kid, now I know I was influenced by a great man. C) The chance to donate to the Harvesters. Thank you Joe, and thank you Mr. Enemy Closer of my childhood =)
[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Quisenberry Tree [...]
Beautiful story Joe. This is why I come here everyday.
Howser did it in Game 6 too, with Gubizca the starter and Bud Black the lefty in the middle innings. Like Bill James said, blowing 4 starters in 2 games isn’t something you can do everyday, but in the playoffs, it sure worked.
Special nod to Bucky Harris who did something similar to John McGraw in 1924 WS to neutralize Bill Terry.
“Must have been the splitter and Sutter’s one Cy Young award, which points to the voodoo-ish nature of HoF voting when it comes to relievers.”
I think a big part of it was Sutter being very good in All-Star games, which sounds silly now but he made some of the AL’s best look downright foolish because the splitter was not a widely used pitch back then.
Based on the numbers, it seems like Dan’s record should be considered at WORST a wash with Sutter. Funny thing about my memory of Quisenberry – it seems like the Brewers owned him. Maybe I’m wrong. Great story about a true gem.
That is some quality writing Joe! Quiz would be proud of you for this one.
Please write that Quisenberry book.
I’ll buy it.
[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Quisenberry Tree [...]
Quiz might have gotten more respect for the Hall of Fame if he had pitched better in the post-season. If he had not blown leads in the 2nd and the 5th games of the 1980 WS, the Royals would have won the Series. The Royals won the 1985 ALCS despite Quiz being roughed up. As a result, Dick Howser lost confidence in him and did not use him in the 9th inning of the 2nd game of the 1985 WS. The Royals surrendered a 2-0 lead to the Cardinals and lost 4-2.
#65- Yes the Brewers did own him.
In his AL years his ERA against the rest of the league was 2.36. Against the Brewers it was 5.31. (more than 2 runs higher than any other team.) He only threw 6.4% of his AL innings against the Brewers, but allowed 13.4% of his earned runs and had 18.2% of his losses.
P.S. I will pre order the Quisenberry book.
So wonderfully worded. You write like Dan, too.
During the 5 non strike years of his prime, Quiz had 62 or more games finished, 33 or more saves, and 128 or more innings pitched in all 5 seasons.
The only other pitcher to have one season like that is Rollie Fingers (1977). Quiz of course, has 5.
Khazad’s views, while informed, reflect statistics run amuck. We are talking about HOF entitlement, and he thinks there is significance to stats showing that Quiz finished 62 or more games and pitched 128 or more innings five years in a row.
And, when I put quotes around “invented” the split fingered fastball, it reflects that baseball fans all know that Sutter refined the old forkball. It was a very significant and famous refinement, that led to several subsequent generations of pitchers also living off the “splitter.” Thus, an additional qualification for the HOF.
As to TV, the issue is not that Sutter was on TV every game, it is that he gained great fame because the whole country was watching him “invent” a new pitch and look absolutely unhittable.
Tom is right about Quiz’s problems in the WS and about Howser losing confidence in him in the 1985 post season. Howswer delayed putting him in in both games 2 and 6 of the series, although with the help of Deinkinger, he still won game 6.
Look, I loved Quiz, did not particularly like Sutter, and consider him a marginal HOF selection, but Sutter obviously is above Quiz on HOF qualifications (if you need a simple test, look at the voting).
Joe, you are not a great sportswriter – you are a great writer, period. One day I hope to be one-tenth as good at my job as you are at yours.
That should probably say “not only a great sportswriter”, since obviously you are that as well. I shouldn’t try to speak/comment/whatever in public with a hangover.
Hey KC Oracle, I understand why Quiz was not in the Hall of Fame. He had too short of a career (There are almost no hall of famers that start their career at age 26), therefore a shorter dominant period, he played in a town that was mostly ignored by voters even when they were good.
However, I am pointing out that especially in their dominant periods, but also career wise, Quiz was a better pitcher than Sutter. He was also a great person, he was a major player on a championship team , and had some of the most dominant relief seasons ever in his prime. They did bring him in in the sixth. They brought him into tie games, they worked him 3 days in a row, they brought him in to finish games when games when we were down a run so that we only needed one run to tie in the bottom of the inning.
I do not know why Sutter slowly rose in votes while Quiz never had a chance, and sometimes it fascinates me who makes it and who does not. Perhaps with Sutter it was the WGN factor. I always thought that contributed to Sandberg’s gold gloves. Like many people, I saw alot of Cubs games in that era, so I saw alot of Sandberg. He was a great hitter, and I have no issue with him being in the Hall. However, he has more gold gloves than Frank White and was not even near his level as a fielder.
I guess my issue is more with Bruce belonging than Quiz being snubbed.
I loved The Quiz. Reading your blog and all the replies made me feel 11 again….back when I lived and died with every Brett plate appearance and breathed a sigh of relief with every Quiz appearance. What a wonderful man on and off the field.
Thank you for reminding of it all Joe. I’ll read anything you write.
[...] Hadn’t heard about The Quisenberry Tree in Kansas City. Which proves Joe Posnanski’s point. [...]
“Dan told me that he loved the way I wrote because it’s the way he tries to write. It’s one of the three greatest compliments of my life.”
I cannot believe nobody has asked this in the first 78 comments, but I would really like to know: what are the other two?
Brilliant writing, as always, Joe.
I grew up knowing Dan as Dave’s best friend through middle and high school. Dan was a great example to me for what it meant to be a good father and a great human being. I’m blessed to have known him and remember how he touched my life.
It is a myth spread by Bill James that Howser outsmarted Bobby Cox in the 7th game of the 1985 ALCS with Toronto by replacing Bret Saberhagan with lefthander Charlie Liebrandt. Saberhagan, who had thrown three scoreless innings, was replaced only because of the effects of being hit by a batted ball earlier in the game. I know because I taped the game. Saberhagan was a 20 game winner (and eventual Cy Young Award winner) and I can’t imagine any manager removing such an accomplished pitcher so early just to get the platoon advantage. If Howser would have made such a move solely for platoon purposes, and if it had backfired, Howser would have deserved to be fired.
If we are going to allow closers into the HOF (which has already been decided) then Quiz deserves to be in the HOF. Four straight years Quiz finished in the top 3 for CYA, top 11 for MVP, led the AL in saves, and pitched 129 or more innings as a closer, all show that he was much more than a modern closer, and given how frequently he pitched two innings, he was often his own setup man as well. Mariano Rivera, for example, never led the AL in saves more than two seasons in a row, never pitched 81 innings in a season once he became a closer, never finished higher than 9th for MVP (Quiz peaked at 3rd), and Rivera’s considered the best relief ace of all time. Oh, and Rivera plays in NYC, which I guess is why he’ll waltz into the HOF and Quiz will have to hope Joe’s on the Veteran’s Committee someday.
I never knew of the Quiz tree either. But sure knew of the Quiz and how he dominated my Tigers (and pretty much every other AL team) in the 80′s. Thanks so much for such an awesome article on an awesome player and awesome person. And… like other’s have said… put me down too on a pre-order for a Quiz book.
Joe, when are you going to collect these columns and publish a book? Best writer in any genre out there today. Thanks. Also, echoing above, what were the other two greatest compliments?
[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Quisenberry Tree [...]
I remember being amazed at how low to the gound the ball was in his delivery. It seemed sometimes that he brushed the mound. And then equally amazed at how quickly he could come out of that delivery and be ready to field his position.
Obviously so loved by Royals fans everywhere- and so many others. I am a Cleveland fan still trying to decide how to feel about LBJ leaving- and his methods for doing so…this post and the comments to follow show just how to become an icon and hero. I long for more players everywhere that carried themselves like Q.
[...] PDT Contributed by: Roy Hobbs Jr Views: 30 Earlier this month, one of my most favorite writers, Joe Posnanski a man who understands and writes about athletes, penned a very touching remembrance of a man I am [...]
[...] punch the audience hard and leave the viewer feeling dirty” … “He rarely made a mistake” … “It has been 368 days since my company of 10 years laid me off” … [...]