Jose Reyes, Mets
Posted: March 10th, 2010 | Filed under: Baseball | 39 Comments »
March 10, 2010
Player of the Day: Jose Reyes, shortstop, NY Mets
Of course, different people have different ideas about what makes an exciting baseball player. But, in general, the blueprint would look an awful lot like Jose Reyes.
In fact, not that long ago, Bill James and I plotted out formula (admittedly the formula is a lot more me than Bill — he just offered suggestions) to try and determine the most exciting players in baseball. I lost that original formula, but I tried to recreate it, taking into account triples (the most exciting play in baseball!), stolen bases, batting average, defensive excitement (subjective) and a couple of other things. I’m pretty sure I created the most wildly flawed formula to appear on the Internet today.
Here then, according to this wildly flawed formula, are the 11 most exciting seasons of the last 25 years:
1. Jose Reyes, 2006.
2. Jose Reyes, 2008
3. Jimmy Rollins, 2007
4. Ichiro Suzuki, 2001
5. Carl Crawford, 2004
6. Jose Reyes, 2007
7. Chuck Knoblauch, 1996.
8. Hanley Ramirez, 2006
9. Tony Gwynn, 1987
10. Tim Raines, 1985
11. Carlos Beltran, 2001.
Obviously, you can create your own formula — and I hope you will — but the point is that at least according to one fairly standard view, Reyes defined exciting baseball. He hit lots of triples. He also hit doubles and a few home runs. He led the league in stolen bases three years in a row. He made dazzling plays at shortstop. Sure, there were always people who thought Reyes needed to get on base more and could have been a touch steadier defensively. But that stuff would come! The point with Reyes was excitement. He was exciting. The Mets were exciting.
Anyway, that’s how it was in 2006, when Reyes was 23 years old and the Mets won 97 games. That’s also how it was in 2007, when Reyes stole 78 bases — most in 20 years — and the Mets led the National League East by seven games in mid-September, you know, before losing 12 of their last 17 and blowing it to the Phillies.
Oh well, there was excitement even then. The Mets signed the best pitcher in baseball, Johan Santana. Reyes has probably his best season — led the league with 204 hits and 19 triples, stole 56 bases. And the Mets led the National League East by 3 1/2 games in mid-September, you know, before losing four of their next five and never again getting back into first place.
Sure, the late season fadeouts hurt. They hurt a lot. But — and it’s easy to forget this — the Mets still looked to be in awfully good shape. Reyes was exciting. Santana was dazzling. Third baseman David Wright was one of the best players in baseball. Center fielder Carlos Beltran was one of the best players in baseball. Carlos Delgado had hit 38 home runs — the 11th time in 12 years he hit 30-plus homers. Francisco Rodriguez came to New York after he had set the single-season save record in Anaheim — finally, the Mets had their answer for the Great Rivera.
So, how did it all go so wrong? Just look at the Mets now. They are now arguing over Jose Reyes thyroid. That’s the big story at Mets camp these days. The Mets seem to believe — based on what they’re hearing from doctors — that Reyes has an overactive thyroid. Reyes seems to believe — based on what he’s hearing from doctors — that his thyroid is fine. Everybody is waiting for the results from the latest tests. These days, Jose Reyes’ thyroid has the third highest Q-Rating in New York, behind only David Paterson and David Letterman. It could get its own show by the weekend.
Of course, the thyroid talk is just an emblem of the Mets issues — of Carlos Beltran’s knee surgery, of David Wright’s power outage, of Carlos Delgado’s hip injury, of the surgery Johan Santana had to remove bone chips, of the Mets abominable 70-92 record last year*
*The Mets became the first team in baseball history to spend $140 million (well, $149 million and some change) and have a losing record. Here is a list of all the teams to spend $140 million on payroll in a season and their win total:
2009 Mets: 70 wins
2009 Yankees: 103 wins
2008 Yankees: 89 wins
2007 Yankees: 94 wins
2007 Red Sox: 96 wins
2006 Yankees: 97 wins
2005 Yankees: 95 wins
2004 Yankees: 101 wins
2003 Yankees: 101 wins
In other words, the thyroid talk is just the latest in a whole bunch of really weird things to happen to the Mets. Of course, Mets fans — at least the ones I hear from all the time — seem to think this is all just part of being … Mets fans. The It’s all part of the tradition. The Mets have a proud history of “The Mets Being The Mets” that, of course, goes back to the 1962 team that most people would agree was the worst baseball team of the last 100 years.
The teams that followed were not much better — until the 1969 Miracle Mets and the 1973 Ya Gotta Believe Mets. Then, the late 1970s, another dreadful lull, that time when Joe Torre came to understand that it’s hard to be a genius with Lenny Randle at third, Doug Flynn at second and Craig Swan as your Opening Day starter.
Then, came the great mid-80s Mets that didn’t win quite as much as they should have won. Then came the dreadful early 1990s Mets, the good-but-not-good enough late 1990s Mets, the dreadful early 2000s Mets, and finally this team dealing with a spotty lineup, a spotty rotation and a thyroid problem.
The thing is, that if they could stop the bad momentum … this Mets team has talent. Johan Santana, if he’s healthy, is as good as anybody. Beltran appears to be on the mend after knee surgery — he says that he’s feeling better about his knee than he has in years. You would like to believe that David Wright, having worked out whatever swing problems he had last year, will return to being a terrific player. Jason Bay gives the Mets a strong middle-of-the lineup bat. The rotation — with 20-somethings Mike Pelfrey, John Maine and Oliver Perez — could be OK, and K-Rod is still a top closer no matter what Goose Gossage may have said about him.*
*I guess Gossage called K-Rod a “clown” because of his theatrics on the field, and K-Rod responded by saying he had never heard of Gossage. So, that went well. Gossage also suggested that while Mariano Rivera is the best “modern reliever,” he prefers himself and the 52 saves he got where he got at least seven outs. Rivera, he points out, only has two of those. Case closed.
And while this is off-topic, it should be pointed out that Gossage does not have the most 7-out saves in baseball history, and he doesn’t have the second most, and he doesn’t have the third, fourth, fifth or sixth-most either. One of his teammates, Sparky Lyle, had more.
The list of most saves, 7-or-more outs:
1. Rollie Fingers, 74 saves
2. Dan Quisenberry, 65 saves
3. Gene Garber, 64 saves
4. Hoyt Wilhelm, 61 saves
5. Mike Marshall, 57 saves
6. Sparky Lyle, 56 saves
7. Goose Gossage, 52 saves
8. Lindy McDaniel, 51 saves
9. Bill Campbell, 49 saves
10. Bob Stanley, 48 saves.
And then there’s Jose Reyes. He was hurt for almost all of the 2009 season. He has had a rough camp with his thyroid issues and with the FBI questioning him about his connection to Canadian doctor Tony Galea, who has been charged with conspiring to smuggle HgH into the U.S. But here’s the thing. He’s only 26 years old. He says that he feels healthy. He still has the talent to be one of the most exciting players in the game. And he and the Mets are due for something good … it has to happen one of these days.
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Am I first? In first place for the first time as a Royal? Circle me Ted Turner!
Circle Me, Rey Ordonez
Joe, as a Mets fan (I would’ve added in long-suffering, but I feel it’s implied), just reading this brought up horrible memories of failures in 2008, 2007, 2006, 2000, etc. The Mets may be due for something good, but I think that somehow, someway, the Wilpons, Omar Minaya and the rest of the clowns who run my favorite team will screw it up and cost us that good thing, if only for karma’s sake.
Jose Reyes! Yeah! I think if he’s healthy this season, he’ll want to show off that he’s healthy again… which means he could steal 100. I wouldn’t be surprised. I love Reyes.
But hey Joe, the Mets were good for about half a decade around the turn of the century. So good, they even beat the Yankees in a World Series game (which, for those reading this that don’t know, was quite an achievement in 2000)
Quiz for the hall!
” taking into account triples (the most exciting play in baseball!)”
Inside-the-park home run > triple
Woohoo! Bob “The Steamer” Stanley on a Top 10 list!
And, not to harsh your Reyes love, one only needs to see today’s Nomar deal to realize the hazards of attaching too much hope to a young, talented, exciting shortstop.
I object to the notion that David Wright needs to “return to being a terrific ballplayer.”
Yes, he struck out more last season, and the HRs weren’t there, but he still hit .307 and stole 27 bases. And remember by mid-season he was literally the ONLY threat in the Mets’ lineup. And then Matt Cain nearly took his head off.
As a Mets fan I never learn my lesson, so I’m chalking up ’09 to a perfect storm of injurious catastrophe and remaining optimistic about ’10. The Mets are perfectly capable of beating the Phils, even with Halladay.
I have to say, I don’t think the Mets are that high on the list of long-suffering franchises. They were in the Championship series four years ago and the World Series ten years ago. I mean, sure, it hasn’t been all sunshine and championships for the Mets, but off the top of my head I think the Pirates, Royals, Mariners, Rangers, Orioles, and Brewers all would be ahead of them.
No Lance Johnson?
I’m on tenterhooks about who the Indians player will be.
In case you’re taking suggestions, I’d go with Russel Branyan. No one better symbolizes the hopeless state of baseball in Cleveland than bringing back a guy EVERYONE HATED THE FIRST TIME AROUND and PROMISING HIM A STARTING SPOT. ARGH!!!
“Captain K.” That’s what we called him at my house.
Brendan: While I agree that Wright was good last year, he wasn’t “terrific”, and looking at batting average and SB doesn’t tell the whole story.
-His slugging percentage of .447 was his lowest in the majors by far (his previous low was .523, during his first full season in the majors).
-His BABIP was .394, which is far and away his highest season total ever (his previous high being only .356), which means that he was probably actually lucky/had a fluky high BA.
-He hit exactly as many HR at home than he did away. It irritates me to no end when people say that his power drought was due to CitiField. It takes two seconds to look this stuff up, yet sportswriters and analysts don’t and blame the down numbers on CitiField. His slugging at home (.434) was lower than away (.458) by about as much as his BABIP was down (.385 vs .402), suggesting that he was an almost identical hitter home and away.
You do have a point about the Cain thing, though. His numbers in the second half were worse (however, that could be a symptom of his BABIP regressing to his career number).
Anyway, I hope he hits 40 home runs and Ollie throws a sub-1.30 WHIP and the Mets win the WS. Go Mets!
joe – just want to say this is a brilliant way to preview the season. love the site and keep up the good work!
How is Granderson not on your list?
I love it when New Yorkers attempt to claim they are long-suffering fans. First, it’s not like their team isn’t pretty successful by any standard. Second, if you live in New York, you probably root for the other New York teams, which have won just a few titles.
Bostonians are the worst for this. Yes, it must have been so hard to root for a team that was usually good and almost always had a Hall of Famer or two on it. And while waiting for the Red Sox to win it all, the Celtics seemingly won every title the Lakers didn’t, the Bruins dominated the early 1970s, and the Patriots dominated football in the 1990s. That’s not suffering, that’s one team not adding to your city’s gaudy totals.
Cleveland. Seattle. Milwaukee. Baltimore (post 1983). Those cities suffer.
That said, if you are a New Yorker and you root for the Mets and not the Yankees, that shows character. So maybe you do deserve a pass. I’m conflicted.
In fact, not that long ago, Bill James and I plotted out formula (admittedly the formula is a lot more me than Bill — he just offered suggestions) to try and determine the most exciting players in baseball.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
(“we” being statheads, which should really be a “they”, since it’s not like I’m personally invested or anything, but you know what I mean…)
@15 — What exactly have Mets/Jets/Knicks fans under thirty had to celebrate?
I am pretty excited that the Cubs are trying to join the Mets in the over $140 million/under .500 club this year.
Good times.
I found 2001 Chuck Knoblauch much more exciting. YOU show me another left fielder who can dodge D-Batteries like that!!
[...] [...]
Joe, thanks for giving me some hope in this storm of idiocy in NYC these days.
Robert, Devon and Brendan, I love you guys, lets have a party to eternal optimism.
Matt, it has nothing to do with how long it’s been when it comes to the Mets and everything to do with how brutal the failings are year in and year out.
@15, as a BaltiMORON and fan of the Ravens, O’s, and Terps*, Baltimore doesn’t have it that bad. The Ravens won the Super Bowl in 2001 (2000 season) and the Terps won the NCAA Basketball Championship in 2002 (2001-2002 season) so I feel no sports pity for myself. And the Ravens continually prove to be one of the top 5 football franchises in the NFL and while the Terps had a mild slump, Garyland seems to have them back on track. Unfortunately, the Orioles will never make the playoffs again unless the a perfect storm of talent, Yankee/Red Sox temporary futility, and luck strike in one season. At least, we got the Ravens Super Bowl championship and one of, if not the best defense of all-time 10 years ago. Sigh.
*I know the University of MD isn’t a professional sports team residing in Baltimore like the O’s or Ravens, but, as my father calls it, UMD is “The University of the City”. Not to the extent of the Ravens or O’s, but the Terps are widely supported by many in MD since Baltimore doesn’t have a pro basketball team, so I count them amongst the Ravens and O’s.
I know this doesn’t have anything to do with this post, but does anyone know where to find a list of the best hitters parks/pitchers parks in MLB??
The negativity around this team in New York is amazing.
The Mets have four everyday All-Star caliber players, an ace, and a light-out closer….and yet you can find a lot of Mets fans who would take the under on this team winning 81 games.
Any list of exciting players that does not include Rickey Henderson must, by definition, be using flawed methodology.
Rickey would think Rickey had the most exciting season in baseball history, let alone the last 25 years.
@26 “You’re still the best Rickey”
@#3 Robert
I certainly agree that the Mets management team is fairly weak if not plain awful. However, they are not responsible for what happened to the Mets in 06/07/08 – at least not totally so.
It was the players who failed, choked, took a dive, didn’t play to potential or whatever other term you choose to use. When they did play up to ability they were far ahead of their opponents; when it got down to the crunch, they folded as if they suddenly became the Royals.
In their history, they had a championship gifted them and they have returned the favor more than once, so I don’t think the terms “long suffering” and “Mets fan” go together well at all – at least not as well as they would fit with Cubs for example. Or the Pirates and Royals for that matter.
Wow. Are you really going to do this for every team? Kinda seems like a waste of your talents. Why don’t you write something funny about Snuggies?
@17. Should’ve watched hockey. You would’ve either had the 1994 Rangers, the early 80s Islanders, or the neutral zone trappin’ Devils. Like I said, I’m conflicted if a New Yorker willingly roots for the Mets and Jets instead of the Yanks and Giants. Shows character.
@22. I’m a former Baltimoron. Yeah, the Ravens had their one title (eh – I don’t care about the NFL) and I don’t get in on the Terps love as I didn’t go there and I root for my college team instead, so I might’ve overstated B’more’s suffering. LSU has given me much to cheer about, so I have no complaints. The Orioles kill me though. Just kill me. Thank God for LSU baseball.
i’m with the guy who asked about curtis granderson, how did he miss the cut???
You should add infield hits to the ranking system, I think!
As a Mets/Jets/Knicks fan under 30, I have an unrelated point to add. How ludicrous is the “break up the core” argument that has been prevalent in NY the past few years (most notably articulated by Mike Francesa)? Really? The Mets have as good a top 6 players as anybody in baseball (Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Santana, KRod, and first Delgado and now Bay), but the answer is to break that up? The answer is not to stop surrounding them with AAA-level players?
[...] couple of months (no that is not outside the realm of possibility) we miss out on watching arguably the most exciting player in the game (in Posnanski we trust). But aside from that, there is just so much Cora leaves to be [...]
Mike Morgan had 3 saves of 8+ outs in the 2000 season alone. Clearly he must be a better reliever than that Rivera clown. Right, Goose??
[...] a fun post by Joe Posnanski wherein in he applied his “exciting baseball” formula. Flawed formula? Certainly. [...]
Poseur, suffering is not one size fits all. Sure the Mets have won Championships (though not in my lifetime) but many of us are cynical, negative, and scarred in various instances that have been more pronounced these last few years. It just became more topical. But yes, I am a Giants fan (believe me our history has more character than you think, we are hardly the Yankees of the NFL) who does not really care for the local hockey and basketball fare- mostly because the Wilpons are enough poor ownership for this fan. I do not need Wang or the Dolan family. I like to watch hockey but I have no horses. It is not just championships but you are in the shadow of a monster under banal ownership that part of you wishes run your team and the most obnoxious fans in the sport. That being said I want to punch the ‘woe is me’ Mets fan that pollute WFAN as much as the next person.
But back to Reyes, I would not compare him to Nomar at all. Just not because of what happens post-peak but their peaks are nothing alike.
Maybe the thyroid has played a role in his previous injuries, maybe this could help remedy a tattered beginning. He should have never have come up as early as he did, not just because he was a baby but he was just so raw and it was so unnecessary to have him up there. But the Mets being the Mets had Rey Freakin’ Sanchez as their starting shortstop after trading Ordonez because he badmouthed the fans. So of course we had to bring the kid up and while it led to brief excitement in that terrible season it ended like a Led Zeppelin with him missing the rest of the season injuring his leg on an awkward slide into second base.
Sigh- The Art Howe years
Some Mets fans older than me are super-nostalgic over the ’86 Mets but it seems like revisionist history. It seemed up until 2006 that the team was a flash in the pan, should have won more but now they are the model team of toughness, attitude, and swagger with Keith Hernandez as the face of the team. I want to blame the over-presence of 86 Mets on SNY but I also would blame time and how the Valentine teams came empty though even Bobby V is getting revisionist bumps in Q ratings.
[...] Joe Posnanski – Joe writes that Reyes is one of the most exciting players in baseball and the Mets are due for something good to happen. [...]
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