My Memory Medal Count
Posted: March 1st, 2010 | Filed under: Other Sports | 79 Comments »
Now, I’ll be the first one to admit that I have many, many, many times remembered something that wasn’t quite right. For instance, I distinctly remember seeing this famous 1984 Apple commercial several times on television.
But … apparently I did not. Because, apparently, it only played on television one time, during the Super Bowl.
I distinctly remember being there, live and in person, watching Tom Seaver win his 301st game at Cleveland Municipal Stadium. I remember it being against Jerry Reed. I always took great pride in that — seeing his 301st victory. But, in fact, that game happened well BEFORE Seaver won 300, it was actually July 5, 1985 and it was Seaver’s much-less-interesting Victory 296.
I distinctly remember the Cleveland Browns loss to Minnesota in 1980 — when Tommy Kramer threw a Hail-Mary pass to Ahmad Rashad on the final play of the game. I can to this day see it in my mind. The funny thing is when I see it, I always see it happening at the Metrodome. I can see the artificial turf. I can see the ball bouncing off of Ron Bolton’s and Thom Darden’s hands and popping in the air and Rashad reeling it in. I can see still the somewhat dark shadows that domes inspire on television. I can see it all so vividly … but, of course, I see it completely wrong because the game was played outdoors at Metropolitan Stadium.*
*I just got a video from NFL Films — History of the Cleveland Browns — and included in that was a highlight tape of the Kardiac Kids Cleveland Browns team of 1980. They showed the Rashad play outdoors and I sat their dumfounded — of course I KNEW that the Vikings did not move into the Metrodome until 1982. But I had for 25 years or so remembered that play all wrong.
So, absolutely, I admit that I remember things in scrambled ways.
Still, I distinctly, clearly, vividly, lucidly and absolutely remember that the Olympic Medal charts in the newspapers were ALWAYS based on a 3-2-1 scale. Am I wrong about this? Am I going crazy? I have asked a couple of people, and they insist that I am wrong, that it was never like that. But I remember what I remember. And I remember that the medal counts always gave weighed the gold, silver and bronze medals differently. I remember this. I know I remember this.
I bring this up because it seems on the Internet that the United States is taking a beating for “winning the medal count” but not really “winning the medal count.” You probably know that the U.S. won 37 medals, which is not only an American record, but it was more than any other country. It was quite a bit more than Germany (30) and Canada (26). It was a U.S. domination.
But, it wasn’t a U.S. domination. The U.S. actually finished tied for third with Norway in GOLD medals. And, as you might realize, gold medals are worth more. Canada had the most golds with 14, Germany with 10 and the U.S. and Norway with 9. So this has led many people to say that the U.S. didn’t REALLY win the medal count, not really.
Well, like I say, I always remember the medal count being computed on that simple 3-2-1 scale — 3 points for gold, 2 points for silver, 1 point for Bronze. That’s how it was in the papers. That’s how they added it up on television. That’s how people talked about it. Come on: I KNOW I didn’t just make this up in my mind. I KNOW I’ve seen this before, many times. I’m not saying that 3-2-1 is the fairest way to add things up. I’m saying that I didn’t know there was any other way to do it.
So, let’s add it up that way. And … bad news for the rest of the world. The way I remember the medal count being computed, yeah, the United States is still the Kings and Queens of the Winter Olympics.
Medal count (3-2-1)
U.S.: 70 points
Germany: 63 points
Canada: 61 points
Norway: 49 points
Korea: 32 points
Austria: 30 points
Russian Federation: 26 points
China: 23 points
Sweden: 23 points
Switzerland: 21 points
France: 18 points
Netherlands: 17 points
Poland: 11 points
Czech Republic: 10 points
Australia: 8 points
Italy: 8 points
Japan: 8 points
Belarus: 6 points
Slovakia: 6 points
Finland: 6 points
Croatia: 5 points
Slovenia: 5 points
Latvia: 4 points
Great Britain: 3 points
Estonia: 2 points
Kazhakhstan: 2 points
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Circle Me Early-Onset Alzheimers
False memory is a wonderful thing, makes regular days into unforgettable ones. And also the reason why leaning on eye-witness testimony in the judiciary is a bunch of hooey.
Can’t say I remember weighted medal counts; at least not in the LA Times.
I think the Rashad catch was the final Vikings play at Metropolitan Stadium and they were in the Humpdome the next year. But that could be my memory playing tricks on me.
I don’t remember the medal count ever going like that, but I like it.
I remember giving more points for gold, too. Surely I’m not the only one to play Winter and Summer Games on the computer? But I was thinking it was a 5-3-1 scoring system.
Joe, I definitely remember the same medal count scale. I think it went out of fashion when the cold war cooled off (get it?).
Anyhow, I was born in 1981 so it must have been in use at least as late as the Nagano olympics.
While, I’m sure you only saw it once on television, Apple’s 1984 ad was actually aired twice.
http://www.curtsmedia.com/cine/1984.html
“In keeping with industry tradition, Chiat/Day paid $10 to run 1984 in the 1:00 A.M. sign-off slot on December 15, 1983, at a small television station (KMVT, Channel 11) in Twin Falls, Idaho, thereby ensuring that the commercial would qualify for that year’s advertising awards. And beginning on January 17, the 30-second version of the commercial aired for weeks in ScreenVision, an advertising medium played in movie theaters before previews and feature presentations (some theater owners loved the commercial so much that they continued running it for months without pay). “
I second Matt in Toledo- I seem to remember 5-3-1 scoring for the medals
Obviously your memory is just seepage from some parallel dimension and those things really happened the way you remembered them just on another time track…..
I remember a number scale of some kind, but only remember it being a big deal until about 88.
Umm, Joe… if the Canada had 14 golds, Germany 10, and the US and Norway 9, then the US tied for third, not forth….
I remember the gold medal scale, although I don’t remember if it was 3-2-1 or 5-3-1. But then I also remember Drew Brees ripping apart OK State in the Alamo Bowl when apparently that happened a few years before he got to Purdue (I was definitely at the OK State Alamo Bowl in 1997 though). What’s weird is I’ve always been a Drew Brees fan based on that, even back when he wasn’t doing so great with the Chargers.
Going with 5-3-1:
USA: 103
Germany: 96
Canada: 96
So we still win that way as well.
If you can’t trust Wikipedia, who can you trust?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_medal_table
Apple’s 1984 ad was only paid to air a couple of times, but there have been many subsequent opportunities to see it on TV. It’s been on the news. It shows up when people discuss how groundbreaking Apple has been. It plays on all those “Greatest Ads Ever” specials.
It was also recreated as an iPod ad early on in that product’s life cycle, with the runner wearing an iPod (and distinctive white headphones). I think it was also recreated for the TV movie, “The Pirates of Silicon Valley”.
So, I’m relatively young (26), and the first olympics I remember watching where the Lillehammer games. However, I’ve been frustrated with the medal count for as long as I can remember. Your system has always seemed like the only legitimate way to score them. The total medals count is the only way I’ve ever seen it tallied up. Its like saying that gold and silver don’t matter!
I was thinking about this, too. There was/is definitely a point system in use. Based on the wikipedia entry referenced above, it looks like it was adopted unofficially by the press.
As a small child, our family subscribed to USA Today. That’s almost certainly where my memory comes from. I first remembered it as 3-2-1, then I remembered the 5-3-1 system, then I gave up and let my contemptible neurons go back about their business.
Ken @10: Well, they tied for fourth too! Right? Moving on…
James @11: As a K-State alum, I object to you trying to steal “Drew Brees tore us apart in the Alamo Bowl” from us. That was the ’98 Alamo Bowl, when K-State — pissed off at not getting a BCS bid despite being ranked #3 and being ranked #1 prior to the OT loss to A&M in the championship game — decided to phone it in.
Actually, Brees didn’t really have a great game that night, anyway.
However, Brees was a freshman at Purdue in 1997, and did in fact play in the ’97 Alamo Bowl against Okie State (entered the game late and went 0-1 passing and lost two yards rushing).
Joe, I definitely remember this, at least in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the paper I grew up on. It might have been 5-3-1 instead of 3-2-1, but I definitely remember this. Would love to see someone pour through old newspaper morgues to confirm this. Maybe if someone has paid access to the NYT archives?
Joe, I’m no Olympic historian, but I am old enough to vaguely remember the US Hockey team winning in 1960! I am sure you are right about the weighting of the medals as 3-2-1 in the papers.
For what it’s worth, in most of the world (i.e. not North America) the competing nations are ranked by Gold Medals, which leads to a result where Canada “won” the Olympics going away with 14 Gold. It is an interesting system, because the U.S. places 3rd, despite having (by far) the most total medals. I suppose the idea is that ultimately there is only one winner in an event, and that if we don’t particularly care about a 4th place finish, it doesn’t make that much sense to care about 3rd. After all, to quote something someone once said, second place is just first loser.
I, too, remember it as 5-3-1. I was, in fact, right there with you as you started your discussion of it and was badly thrown when you said 3-2-1.
I’m sure if in the next Olympics we’re leading the gold medal charge, the weighted system will be brought back out in our papers. The US had a hell of an Olympics and some admirable Olympians. Why not leave it at that? (Aimed not at Joe but the “MSM”.)
One more thing, is anyone else bothered by the phrase “won the silver (or bronze) medal”? I mean, you didn’t “win” it, you were awarded it as a consolation for not winning. Why go three deep? Why not two? Or four?
So, as Sabby says, I’d prefer either just using golds or a very heavily weighted system, say, 20-5-1. Use the silvers and bronzes as a tie-breaker, essentially.
Joe,
When I was a kid, I distinctly remember calculating each country’s score for the 1972 Olympics (using the 3-2-1 scale) because the medal tables published in the Indianapolis News counted all of the medals the same, and that just didn’t make sense to me.
Personally, I now think a 6-3-1 system makes more sense. Under both a 5-3-1 and a 3-2-1 system, the difference between gold and silver is the same between silver and bronze, but I think the former difference is clearly larger than the latter. Hence 6-3-1.
And of course Ahmad Rashad was outside!
Speaking on behalf of deliriously happy Canadians* everywhere, I can tell you with great confidence that there is not one person in Canada who would trade our 26 medals (14 gold, including 2 for hockey…) for the US’ 37 medals (and 2 hockey silvers).
[*the post-game celebration was epic - I have never seen so much unadulterated, raucous joy].
I remember the 1984 ad being played numerous times on TV, but the 30-second spot, not the full minute one. I remember this vivdly, too, even thinking at the time, “Not this commercial again!” It seemed like we were inundated with it. That’s how I remember it …
@22: By and large, I agree but I think it sort of depends on the event. I wouldn’t say the US won silver in hockey, for example. We won gold, and they lost to get silver. I might say that a speed skater or bobsleigh team or downhill skier won silver, since they aren’t directly facing their competition. You can be done and dusted in first and then lose a half hour later through, essentially, no fault of your own.
I would definitely say that the Finns won bronze in hockey, though. They directly beat someone to win that medal. Yes, they lost a semi to get there, but they still won to get the medal.
One of the great things I’ve found about growing up in the age of first television and later all-media saturation is that there are sporting events that I know I saw when they happened and can’t remember a thing. Yet there are major events that happened I remember clearly, most likely due to over-play and over-discussion over time since I cannot remember actually seeing them live.
No, I think your memory fails you once again. Growing up in the U.S. , the medal count(at least in the LA times) was always based on the total medals won. It was only since I moved here(Australia) in the late 80′s that I noticed other countries count the tally by gold medals first.
Of course here in Aus., for the summer olympics at least, we always have the medals won/per capita chart which of course puts us on top
You know, it is amazing the most random things you learn from Joe’s Blog.
I was born in 1987. I have never seen that Apple ad before. I have seen the Futurama parody of that ad (in “Futurestock”) a dozen times or more. I never knew what Futurama was parodying. I never even knew they were parodying something. This is the third completely random and trivial thing I have learned from this blog. I love Joe!
Moving on, weighing all the medals the same doesn’t make any sense. Imagine if we evaluated ball players by counting singles the same as homeruns! Certainly nobody would do that.
I remember being a Senior in high school when that apple add was shown on t.v. during the super bowl and I remember there was a huge buzz with many of the kids for this new apple computer.
Also, it seems like the “Jog Bra” hadn’t been invented in 1984.
I think there was something of a sliding scale during the olympics maybe done by ABC wide world of sports. It’s also funny to see how sports on t.v. was set up back then. For instance they had Frank Gifford calling the famous Franz Klammer run in 1976.
Also the winter olympics has a lot more events than it did back in the 70′s-80′s
This is one of the things I hate most about the Olympics — turning it into another excuse for mindless nationalism. ‘We’ won? No, a bunch of people won who happen to live in the same country as you. Actually people sometimes compete for countries that they don’t even live in.
‘We’ want to make fun of the way Putin and Medvedev (sp?) ae fuming about Russia’s poor showing, but ‘we’ sound just as stupid crowing about ‘our’ victories.
Give it a rest.
How many more athletes did we have?
“For instance they had Frank Gifford calling the famous Franz Klammer run in 1976.”
And doing hockey for ABC was … NBC’s Curt Gowdy.
I’ve been irrationally obsessed with this medal-weighting scheme for a while and was waiting for an opportunity to share:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlqMhSMgFiJidHdtNzZHYTVrenFfM1ZHS2VTTkg4Ync&hl=en
I’ve listed six obvious ways of ranking medals, and you can input custom values if you want.
Here are the leaders under the various counts:
Unweighted: US 37, Germany 30, Canada 26
Gold only: Canada 14, Germany 10, US/Norway 9
3-2-1: US 70, Germany 63, Canada 61
4-2-1: US 79, Canada 75, Germany 73
5-2-1: Canada 89, US 88, Germany 83
5-3-1: US 103, Canada/Germany 96
6-3-1: US 112, Canada 110, Germany 106
Others:
7-4-1: US 136, Canada 131, Germany 129
8-4-1: US/Canada 145, Germany 139
8-4-2: US 158, Canada 150, Germany 146
9-5-1: US 169, Canada 166, Germany 162
9-4-1: Canada 159, US 154, Germany 149
I’m not going to get into GDP or population: I’m trying to figure out our intuitive sense of who dominated the Olympics. So sorry, Norway, we’re going to ignore you for now. Unfortunately, even though we’re basically narrowing this down to US/Canada/Germany, we’re left without a clear answer. Of course, that’s fine for sane people, who say, “Ok, Canada won more golds, but the US won more total medals.” But I can’t leave it at that. I don’t want an offensive MVP and a pitching/defensive MVP–I want the most valuable player, dammit!
Sadly, there isn’t something like WAR for estimating medal value. What one could do, and this would require someone who knew more math and statistics, would be to see how people value golds versus silver versus bronze medals, outside of the context of standings. Would they trade a gold for three bronzes? For two or three silvers? Does their answer change if they have already won a gold? Can we compute an average subjective value of gold across a large enough sample? I’m not sure if this is fundamentally impossible to compute because of the inevitable contradictions people ensnare themselves in, but it’s worth asking.
Here, I think it’s reasonably clear that in a good weighted count, the US would still win. The US wins any X-2-1 count up to 5-2-1, and it’s difficult to argue that gold should be worth three more than silver, which is only worth one more than bronze. My candidates for medal weighting would be 4-2-1, 5-3-1, or 6-3-1, and the US wins all of those (totally no bias here!). I do like 8-4-1 for poetic reasons because it’s the simplest way I’ve found to tie the US and Canada, but there’s no way that gold should be worth eight times bronze.
A parting shot: My smirking roommates suggested I look up the values of the medals on eBay, or, even worse, their going rates on commodity markets. I decided that was a bit much even for me.
As a followup, here are the Beijing medal counts. It’s pretty clear that China “won” here, given the massive lead in golds. They win even in 3-2-1 weighting. The US is way ahead of everyone else, though.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlqMhSMgFiJidDc1RExyUlhDM0hVSVBpMHJ5TlY2b3c&hl=en
False memory is a wonderful thing. This is why simply saying something about a player when discussing his Hall of Fame merits is unacceptable. “But I just know Jim Rice was the most feared hitter, I remember it.” “I remember Jack Morris as being a dominant pitcher, so he must have been one.” “I don’t rememeber anything about Bert Blyleven when he played, so he must not have been a Hall of Famer.” This stuff drives me nuts, and false memory is exactly why.
You can ask 10 people who watched the exact same sporting event how everything unfolded, and you’ll get 10 different answers. Relying on memory is just simply not a good way to analyze things. In God we trust, everyone else bring stats (or proof).
You’re not wrong, Joe. The media definitely used a 5-3-1 scale for Olympic medal counts in the 1988 and 1992 Olympics and, as noted above, it also appeared in a variety of contemporary video games. That system seemed to disappear during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, for reasons unknown.
Fellow Canadian McKingford #24 makes a good point – some events and medals are more ‘important’ than others. For Canadians, the hockey golds are #1, whereas Austria probably regards alpine skiing medals as #1.
Whenever I’m faced with this type of issue, I ask myself what I would think if the reverse were true. So, who would the Olympic ‘winning’ country have been if Canada and the US had swapped medals?
See weighted ranking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_medal_table
Take your pick of which memory fits:
5:3:1
4:2:1
3:2:1
Funny you should write this because I’ve never seen it done that way but always thought it should be done that way!
I think the big discussion I have been following is about “true medals” . Basically a true medal is anything that is not judged like Figure skating, half pipe snow boarding, moguls, free style luge… If you take away the medals won in those events the U.S. does not do so well.
Also that Rashad catch is probably the definitive moment I became a ridiculously obsessed football fan. The game basically looked over and my dad made me go hunting early, as we had planned to do after the game. On the the short drive to our hunting spot we listen to the radio and when that play happened I made him drive me home so I could see it, and then I watched it on the 6 o’clock news and I sneakily got up to watch it on the 10 o’clock news as well. Cardiac kids…pffft. Go Vikes!
I always felt the medal count should be factored by population. Hardly seems fair to compare the US, Russia, and China with Norway and Canada and Austria and Slovakia. If you adjust for population, Canada and Norway had a heck of an Olympics.
Also, I have to admit, I was kinda pulling for Canada in the hockey game. Just a bit, eh? (Letterman said last night that he was too.) As I told my Canadian pals, I didn’t want to hear about all the suicides if they lost. But seriously, it just meant so much to them.
Helluva game, though, either way.
@Steve #31
That’s a very valid point you bring up, people get so wrapped up in mindless nationalism and medal counts in sports that nobody even cares about as if it means anything in the grand scheme of things.
“We beat Norway in overall Winter medals”, “Were #1″
Meanwhile in reality we can’t even compete against Norway in things that really matter like Healthcare, Quality of Life, Education, Infant Mortality, Teen-Age Pregnancy, and Life Expectancy.
Spud,
It’s kind of hilarious to see how generic sports broadcasting was well into the 90′s.
ABC or NBC would have the group of 10-15 broadcasters and that usually came from Football or Baseball and would use them for everything from Curling to Ice Dancing, Badminton to Fencing.
You go on you-tube to see something like Klamer’s 1976 Gold Medal Downhill run and it’s Frank Gifford from Monday Night Football with the call. It’ kind of surreal actually, like some kind of bizarro world.
An odd one that stands out in my mind was Tim McCarver covering the Ski-Jumping?? competition for ABC back in 1988.
“Let’s take the former Major League catcher from Tennessee and have him cover Ski Jumping, yeah that’s a good match.”
Greg @ 42. Of course, it also hardly seems fair to compare China and the U.S. to Norway in “Nordic” Skiing and U.S. and Argentina to Austria in “Alpine” Skiing. You think, despite their population disadvantage, those European countries have an advantage in sports they invented? I do.
Maybe if the IOC’s membership didn’t consist of 60% Europeans and 40% from “other places”, baseball would be an Olympic sport and Team Handball (seriously, does anyone outside of the Benelux countries even know what this is??) would not.
It’s true that Canada has a bunch of medals, but two of them (one gold, one silver) are in curling. They should be deducted points for excelling in this “sport”.
Joe,
My memory is that medal tables used to be sorted by golds only, with no attention paid to other medals. Most golds was the “winner”
Joe – I “clearly” remember weighted medal tables appearing in the Philly Inquirer when I was a kid growing up in the 80′s. I suppose for somebody who had time on his/her hands, it wouldn’t be all that difficult to research. Just go to the library and look through the sports section during the dates of the Olympics.
I always thought the medal count was silly. I like to watch the Olympics for the enjoyment of the competition, in sports I don’t get to see often. I really don’t care what country won how many medals. I’m not sure why anyone does.
Funny, I remember that Rashad play being outside, but maybe that’s because I had the pleasure of being there. At least, I remember being there…..
True, using either system on this winter olympics the US is the winner, but I agree with Joe: before, the 3-2-1 system was used. The thing is, if you use that system in Beijing, the winner were the Chinese (51G, 21S, 28B for a total of 223 points against 220 for the Americans). But of course they want to print the USA name at the top, so they conveniently sort the table by total medals. I just have the impression that it is a media trick to keep showing off how awesome the USA is.
From this Canadian’s perspective, winning 14 gold was fantastic regardless of whether or not we “won” the total medal count*. It’s funny though that a lot of Canadians have changed the way they think of who “won” the Olympics since the Vancouver games started. The Canadian Olympic Committee started a program about five years ago called Own The Podium with the stated goal being to win the total medal count at the 2010 games. At least part of the reason for this was because Canada was the only nation to host an Olympics and not win a gold medal. And we did it twice! But after a disappointing first week (at one point I saw a stat that said the US had 32 top 5 finishes, Canada 26, but the US had 24 medals to Canada’s 9), the word “choke” was being thrown around and future funding of the program was questioned. But now that we’ve “won” the most gold medals (including setting a record for most golds won in a winter Olympics) that talk has pretty much died.
*Growing up in Toronto I have vague memories of the newspapers both listing the countries in order of total medals and in order of golds then silvers then bronzes, but never a weighted point system that I can recall. But it always seemed odd to me to see a country with one gold medal and nothing else ahead of a country with no gold but several silvers and bronzes.
And although it will sound stereotypically Canadian, winning the gold in men’s hockey was pretty much the most important medal of them all. And I’m sure that sentiment is the same for a lot of (most?) Canadians.
@46: Furious Styles – I’m not a curling fan, I tend to only watch it at the Olympics (like most of the other sports), but at least it’s not a judged sport like Figure Skating (where the US won men’s gold) or Ice Dance (where Canada won gold).
Re #20 ‘first loser’ comment – as a Canadian I can say two of our bronze medals made me happiest of all. Joannie Rochette winning bronze after her mother’s death was remarkable. And Clara Hughes winning bronze in her last speedskate to solidify her spot as one of the greatest Olympians ever (6 total medals, two in 1996 Atlanta in cycling, the others in speedskating, making her the only Olympian ever to win multiple medals in both Summer and Winter Olympics). For these two, bronze was gold.
I think the poker approach should be adopted. Don’t they always have the 3 chips. it’s never 3-2-1. sometimes its 5-3-1. I’ll leave it at that because anything else makes me wonder why I’m actively trying to find a way to beat my home country. though i do have a lot of US-population guilt.
The only countries i feel good about beating is russia and china and that’s only skating and gymnastics. That hardly counts.
I do think there is room for bill-james-ification of the count though. Should team golds count more than solo? less? should a duo count more than a team? less?
The “first loser” comment kills me. This is the problem with society in general, our win criteria are set up wrong. Biggest house. Most stuff. Highest paying job. Best in the world. Seriously, people shouldn’t be considered winners and great athletes if they are the 2nd best in the ENTIRE WORLD at something? Broken measurement system for sure.
#51. I was just joking, of course. You’re right about judged sports. Also strange is when the referees or officials who rule on disqualifications are from one of the countries in the race. I was watching the 500m short track event that Charles Hamelin (from Canada) won. Two skaters fell, a Si-Baek of Korea and Tremblay of Canada, and Apolo Ono finished 2nd. Replay showed that both Ono and Hamelin touched the two skaters who fell, just before they fell. The Canadian referee disqualified Ono but not Hamelin. I don’t care who won or why this guy was disqualified and this guy not. All I care is that the referee was from Canada. There were three freaking countries in the race – Canada, U.S. and Korea. Why does the official have to be from one of those countries? Where was the Finnish official, or the German official, or how about the Swedish official? Were they busy getting mani/pedis?
Speaking of memories, Carlton Fisk once said he actively avoids watching his famous home run on TV so as not to pollute his own memories of it. I think he said he’s only seen it four times, as of the interview I read.
#55: I agree with your comment re: the Canadian judge in the 500m short-track race – having a judge from a competing country doesn’t make any sense to me either. When I saw the replay of the race it seemed clear to me that Ohno reached out and grabbed Tremblay on the hip. Hamelin did something similar but not as violently and it looked to me liked Si-Baek was grabbing Hamelin’s skate at the same time (possibly not intentionally). I don’t know if that makes any difference to the rulings (bias – I’m Canadian).
The gold medal hockey was classic and “where were you when Crosby scored” will be a Canadian touchstone for generations. An American comparison would be a young Michael Jordan sinking an OT buzzer-beater to beat the Russians in the basketball gold medal game in the middle of the Cold War.
One idea I remembered from the 2006 games was to count total medals… i.e. you win the 100m, that’s 1 medal, your basketball team wins gold, that’s 12 medals. By that method, I believe the count goes USA, Canada, Finland (since the Finns took bronze in both hockey events).
Reading the rest of the comments makes me want to clarify my posts (21 and 22). I don’t consider the silver and the bronze to be failures. Far from it – I’d do a lot (well, besides practice really hard and eat right) to win a bronze medal. I just find the turn of phrase odd. “Win the bronze” doesn’t ring true to me (even for those who win a 3rd place game – you lost to get there). In other words, there is only one winner, by definition. The winner won. The person/team who finished second and third are “awarded” medals. And should be damned proud.
But when it comes to medal counts, why stop at 3? Why award medals for placing 2nd and 3rd but not 4th? It just doesn’t make sense to me. So, that is my argument for just going on golds for which nation “won” the medal count. If two nations tie in golds, you could use silvers as a tie-break.
In track and field they not only provide a list of medals by country but also placings.
Medal Table: http://berlin.iaaf.org/results/medals/index.html
Placing Table: http://berlin.iaaf.org/results/placing/index.html
Of course it seems ridiculous to talk about medal count in the Winter Olympics because it seems like so many of the events are exhibitions (figure skating, freestyle skiing and snowboarding) or events in which no one really cares who wins (pretty much all the rest of the sports where like 100 people in the US do them).
Jordan sank a shot to beat the Russians? I don’t think hardly any USAians could answer if that is true or not. Who remembers a meaningless basketball game? I don’t. I doubt it is important to most USAians at all.
#57. I agreed with the judge’s decision too. Ono seemed to push harder. It also looked like Ono knew he did that at the end. Also, the announcers said something like, “pushing off was the only way Ono would be able to medal.”
I just found it silly that the Olympics would open the door for criticism like that. Same for the situation with that Austrian coach who supposedly set up a “Vonn-proof” Super-G course. I don’t know if that’s true. It probably isn’t because the allegation was made by Lindsey Vonn’s husband. But the Austrian coach set the course, and an Austrian woman won the event.
That’s just crazy. It’s almost like the Olympics are being run by used car salesmen.
Why do Olympic events need to be sports, and not events? Poetry and singing and dancing were all parts of the ancient olympics. Why do the modern olympics need to be sports (as defined as things with objective scoring)? I’m a huge sports’ fan, but I really enjoy the other events in the Olympics also, and I think the tv ratings bear that out for much of the rest of the world also.
I have never seen/heard of a point system like that for the Olympics. Don’t think it has ever been used over here in Britain that I am aware of, although maybe it explains why I heard a quote the other day about our one gold medal being the same as three bronze*. We rank countries on gold medals and so I’m sorry but Canada were number 1 in my eyes.
*Our target for the games was three medals (any sort), so worst case scenario three bronze, hence the one gold (what we actually won) being equal to three bronze.
Brag: I was 50 feet away when Crosby scored the goal.
#24 and #38 are certainly correct: no Canadian would trade 26 for 37 if it meant giving up the hockey golds.
Emerging from the rink with my father and walking down Robson is a memory I’ll never forget. Sharing it with 300, 000 other deliriously happy Canadians in my hometown’s downtown streets capped off a perfect day.
Olympic medal counts in small countries are always put through a “per head of population” screen – well, they are in my country, one of the smallest, and I know the press in a few others do it too. It provides an excuse for back-slapping and chest-beating and general jingoism, which always reach sickening heights, and for most Olympics allows New Zealand to head off the Aussies – the whole raison d’etre of sport in this little lifestyle block masquerading as a nation.
Every so often, about once a decade, some meanie will point out that countries with large populations – the US f’rinstance – would have to win EVERY medal in EVERY sport to even vaguely compete against New Zealand’s half dozen or so, given population weighting.
What happens to this whistle-blower, I don’t know. Perhaps they are taken away for re-education somewhere. That would explain the sizeable time lapses between the occasions when this statistical anomaly is pointed out and the total lack of debate whenever it does surface.
And to someone earlier on, Australia never wins the population-weighted medal tally. At 20 million-odd (some of them very odd) people, it has outgrown its advantage.
I’ve given a bit of thought to this, and believe the fairest measurement that could be applied would be for the winter games’ medal tallies to be weighted according to annual snowfall per square mile (or, seeing as it’s the Olympics, square kilometres) within each country’s borders.
Therefore a small nation, population-wise, like Norway wouldn’t have an advantage over the US, a big proportion of which never sees snow at any time . . . except for this year – but that’s something to do with Al Gore and his emissions, apparently. Russia, on the other hand, which is 99% percent snow and ice and has a large population, would be behind the eight ball from the get-go . . . and thus the whole point of the Olympics – to humiliate the Russkies on a world stage – would have a solid, scientific, statistically sound base to it.
One unfortunate outcome, though, would be the elevation of Australia. There’s more ice in my deep freeze than on any of their snowfields. I’ve been there; the place is sunbaked. They do their skiing in New Zealand. I’ll have to have a think about them.
This is really off-topic re the comments as a whole, but I found this quote in the SI vault from a Frank Deford piece about Wilt’s 100 point game:
“Even now, 13 years after his career ended, 24 years after he scored 100 points in an NBA game against the Knicks before 18,000 screaming fans at Madison Square Garden, …”
As has been pointed out all day, Wilt scored his 100 in Hershey, PA with a few thousand fans present. Even the great Frank Deford misremembers things. So, it’s not just Joe.
I have always done it 10-5-3, to put a bigger difference between nothing and bronze, and a bigger difference between silver and gold. The US still wins with this point system.
Hmmm, my memory is fine. The wife is always remembering things that didn’t happen or forgetting things that did happen. I chalk it up to women problems.
Then again, maybe it isn’t just women. A week or so ago my son argued with me that Damon had signed with the Braves. I told him “No, he is still trying to get a deal with either Detroit or the White Sox.” Being all knowing (as only a teenager or a wife can be) he insisted I didn’t know what I was talking about.
The Ahmad play happened on Sunday, Dec. 14, 1980 — a.k.a. my 9th birthday. I grew up just north of Minneapolis, a lifelong Vikings fan (well, being what my life was at that point). The entire family was over celebrating, gathered around the 19″ TV downstairs. I was upstairs when the preceding hook n’ ladder play happened. I ran down just in time to see the Hail Mary. I remember my aunts, uncles, father, and grandfather cheering wildly. Ahmad (ak-mahd, as Bud Grant used to call him) was by far my favorite player (just ahead of Sammy White, Joe Senser, Ted Brown, Matt Blair, and the San Diego Chargers offense). I consider that catch to be the defining football moment of my childhood. We would constantly try to re-create that catch with a Nerf football on a gravel road.
I was worried I remember these events incorrectly. In fact, I was sure I had; but, thanks to in-depth fact-checking with several reliable resources (i.e. Wikipedia and family members) all of it appears to be reality.
Some birthday presents aren’t too good to be true.
One more thing:
A Vancouver friend pointed out to me that by the end of week 1 the Canadians had shattered the record for most beer drunk at an olympics.
There’s another gold for you.
Here in the UK, we have always used Gold Medal Count to determine the medal standings. Silver and Bronze are just tie breakers if they can’t be separated on Gold.
I rather suspect the US media have always used, and will continue to, use any ad hoc system that results in the US being #1.
@22: I would say you win silver. You have to win to qualify for the Olympics. And in the case of both US hockey teams, they won every Olympic game but the gold medal game.
Here in the UK, we seldom need to resort to addition to total our medal ‘haul’ from the Winter Olympics.
In your good ole days of the Cold War you would have used whatever system allowed the US to topple the Soviet Union from the top of the medal table.
I remember the 5-3-1 scoring system as well, but based off of preious posters, I wonder if that was some way of making the US look better then the opposing countries. Regardless… USA!
#68 – I read the Frank Deford piece when it originally came out. At the end it says “Wilt was in Hershey PA that night…”. Deford was joking about the false memory syndrome in the article. Of course, since I haven’t read it since, maybe I have a false memory of that phrase. It made me laugh so hard at the time, I think it’s accurate.
Funny…I “remember” the Vikings/Rashad play as being the last play of the first half. Oh, where or where can my brains cells be…
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