The Negro Leagues Museum
Posted: January 30th, 2010 | Filed under: Baseball | 78 Comments »
I’ll have a lengthier comment on this later in the week — for reasons that I think will become clear — but for now I would ask you to take a minute or two and read this Doug Tucker Associated Press story about the struggles of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City.
I have avoided writing about the museum for more than a year now for very personal reasons. It has been heartbreaking watching the museum I loved — the museum, I should point out for ethical purposes, to which I dedicated many hours and many thousands of dollars — shift away from what I thought was its essence and focus and purpose. Reasonable minds can disagree about how a museum can tell its story. Reasonable minds will disagree about how a museum can stay viable and sustainable in this economic reality.
But the museum’s shift left away from Buck O’Neil and away from many of the people who had made it a magical place in the first place left me with the unshakeable belief that the people in charge had lost their way. The museum had lost it compass. And the place was doomed. I hoped I was wrong. I still do hope I’m wrong. Maybe this story will inspire change. Maybe it will rally people around the museum in the hopes of saving it. I hope so. But more than hope, I feel heartbreak. Like I say, I will write more on this in a few days.
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Just saw this story via a separate link on SOSH.
When you write your longer post, could you possibly give us some detail on how the museum is losing all this licensing money? I find that pretty surprising. Who owns the Negro League marks and who are the licensees? Who administers those deals?
I read this story yesterday and I look forward to your expanded thoughts on the situation. It doesn’t sound very good though.
I hope the museum pulls through. It would be a shame to see it close down.
In your post, I’d be very interested to hear you specify what you mean by the shift away from Buck. Don’t they quite literally have to find a new direction after his death?
This is very sad news, but I have to admit not surprising. I made a point of visiting the museum when I visited KC last April, and got about 5 other people from my group to go as well. The place was empty, and this was at 2pm on a Saturday.
I knew at the time about the “change in direction” at the museum, but having read Joe’s book on Buck and being a lifelong Chicago Cubs fan from the days of Banks and Williams, I wanted to see the museum anyway.
After reading the article, I went to the museum’s website to see if I could buy a t-shirt or something (since I live far, far away from KC). There aren’t any t-shirts for sale in the gift shop. That’s a bad sign, isn’t it?
Maybe part of the problem was they set up the museum in Kansas City. I’ve lived on the East Coast my whole life and I’ve never even met anyone who has even been to Kansas City once!
This isn’t a knock on K.C., it’s just too far to travel by car, it’s not a major hub for airline travel so it makes it extremely difficult for people on the East Coast to travel to it.
Maybe if it was set up in Pittsburgh they could do better because then it would only be a car ride for people from Boston, NY, Phily, Baltimore, D.C.. then it’s not as far for people from Cleveland, Cinn, Detroit, Chicago, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Milwaukee.
Also, Pittsburgh has a historical reference point because of the Crawfords and the Grays.
John Q: Kansas City actually has a large airport. Complete with lots of flights, big planes and even baggage claims. One of the best designs for getting in and out, too! If you find it extremely difficult to get to, you have much bigger issues you should probably work on before planning a vacation.
The Negro Leagues museum is failing because it’s small, doesn’t really have a lot to look at — it’s 95% reading things glued to the wall — and, honestly, tells a story a lot of people probably don’t really care that much about. I’ve been there and thought it was interesting, but I don’t see a reason I would go back. If someone took a trip to KC, it’s a decent way to kill an hour or two, but it’s not a destination location on its own..
@John Q- The national World War I museum is in Kansas City and it drew 143,000 people in 2008, much more than expected. There are many millions of people within a days drive from Kansas City, it’s not 1940 anymore where 3/4 of the US’s population lived in the northeast.
Joe Blow,
I shouldn’t have made it sound like I couldn’t get to K.C. it’s just not a destination point like you said.
If I’m going to take a flight, there’s probably 20 places I’d rather visit before K.C., that was my basic point.
Olentangy,
I’m not knocking K.C. it’s probably a wonderful place and the people are probably very nice, I’m just saying that no one on the East Coast is going to plan a vacation to K.C.
unless the’re visiting a family member or driving across the country.
And yeah, the East coast isn’t 3/4 of the population but there’s about 46 million people in just NY, NJ, MASS, and Pennsylvania.
You have about 5 million in Vermont, Maine, New Hamshire, and Rhode Island and Connecticut.
There’s about 18 million in Florida
There’s about 17 million in Maryland and Virginia
Then there’s about 46 million in California, Wash, and Oregon.
Wow. Speaking of long posts, I’m stunned that as of the time of this comment, 363 people — most of them presumably regular readers — took time to click in the poll and let Joe know they wouldn’t donate a couple of bucks to one of his favorite charities in return for the hundreds of excellent reads on this site.
Thanks for the link, Joe. I am interested to hear what you have to say about the situation considering your relationship with Buck. It would be a tragedy to lose so much over petty squabbles and a few dollars. $200,000 is a lot to me but there certainly are people it to whom it isn’t.
How much support does MLB give to the museum? If this is the definitive place for Negro League history, MLB should take a few bucks out of Petty Cash and make sure it’ll never go under.
Oh, come on. I live in Seattle and have zero ties to Kansas City, but I’ve been to the Negro Leagues museum, mainly because the Mariners’ broadcasters made a point for years and years of going there every time the team played in KC and they had Buck O’Neil on their pregame show again and again. It’s a lot of fun to go to. I have a Homestead Grays cap I bought there which is my absolute favorite baseball cap to wear.
Here’s a question.
If the NLBM continues to go down this path, how long until it’s time to move it?
I don’t mean moving it to Overland Park or any Kansas City suburb, but would the NLBM do better if it were in Atlanta, Birmingham or Washington D.C.?
I live in the Boston area, and my husband and I visited the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum two summers ago for a very particular reason.
We were on a 6-week cross-country road trip, which was a great adventure. To pass the time, we sometimes read books out loud to one another in the car. Our favorite one was a fabulous book called “The Soul of Baseball…” and after we finished it, somewhere in Montana, we both felt very strongly about making it to the NLBM at some point during the trip.
We made it there in mid-August, and I’m truly glad to have visited. The museum was extremely well put-together, with lots of beautiful displays and great stories about the Negro Leagues. I felt a twinge in my stomach when I read the article a few days ago– I have no idea what the conflict is about, and I know how complex these situations can be. I hope the people involved are able to overcome this somehow. It would truly be a loss for the museum to disappear. I’m thankful to you Joe, and to Buck as well. I think Buck brought out the best in you– the book was truly amazing.
“Don’t they quite literally have to find a new direction after his death?”
I think a better question is, what’s the hurry to move away from Buck’s legacy? And what other direction is there? It’s a history museum and most people know about it through Buck O’Neil.
Seems sad. But also seems like a change is needed if it’s going to survive – as Joe said reasonable minds can disagree what that change might be.
Wouldn’t it be logical for the museum to be in Cooperstown? It could benefit from the baseball tourists the other place pulls in.
East coaster here but a big fan of KC. Big fan. One of the really underrated U.S. cities.
But I have to admit that on reading the AP story one of my first thoughts was: shut it down, re-open it in Harlem, and it will be viable for the next 50 years.
An event featuring Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Ernie Banks could raise $200K easily.
An event with Mays, Aaron, Banks etc. is a good idea. In addition, MLB needs to step up with annual support. This is an important part of the heritage of major league baseball, and $500k per year is a drop in the bucket. Dear Bud: this could be part of your legacy to baseball, and it’s a better legacy than steroids, strikes, competitive imbalance and a tied All-Star game.
It’s a shame that politics and pettiness are destroying the museum. I went shortly after reading the Soul of Baseball and had the good fortune of meeting Bob Kendrick while I was there. Anyone who reads this blog should read the book. I’m not sure how many people outside of KC really know about Buck, but the book gives great incite.
No way the museum should be moved out of KC. It is the birthplace of the Negro Leagues. The Monarchs were the stalwart franchise of the League. Just because New Englanders don’t want to come to town doesn’t mean you should move the museum.
FYI, an older post Joe has on the Museum post Buck O’Neil.
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/15/the-museum/
Seems to me that Cooperstown isn’t a real convenient place to get to, yet somehow that place manages to stay alive.
I brought an out of town friend to the NLBM and the neighboring jazz museum, and he left with a “Gee, is that it?” kind of feel. And he is a huge fan of Joe, jazz and Buck. Somehow the place just doesn’t have enough to make me want to go back.
I don’t have the answer, and I hope they pull it off, but it should live on its merits and not accept transfusions or rely on the largess of others. There’s a great story to tell; they should be able to find a way to tell it that people are willing to pay to see.
@26. It does seem like a great story to tell. My take is that it is a small part of the big baseball story. If it was with the rest of the baseball story it’s a winner and adds so much to the picture (which is why MLB should be falling over themselves to be supporting this). But if it’s out by itself it’s just doesn’t have the gravity.
@24. Yes, it should be in KC. But a dead museum in KC tells no story, you may win the battle but loose the war.
They really should just bulldoze all of those cities that are too far to drive to from the metropolises of the Great Northeast. I guess the farms can stay so the little dears don’t starve, but someone should certainly have asked their permission before they built cities with museums in them out here.
I’ve been to KC only once. It was 5.5 years ago, as part of a midwest swing of my lifelong baseball road trip. My buddy and I were there for a Royals game, but had a few hours to spare before the game and figured the NLBM would be worth our time.
We were lucky enough to walk in just a few minutes after Buck O’Neil had begun giving a personal tour of the museum to a local Congressman. So of course we stayed very close behind them, eavesdropping so that Buck O’Neil may as well have been our personal tour guide. What a treat that was!
But the thing is, Buck’s commentary was much more interesting than the actual exhibits in the museum. Yes, Buck’s commentary was more interesting than the Royals game, too, but that’s not the point. The field of statues at the end was pretty cool, but the museum was relatively small, was not very interactive, and its exhibits were only especially interesting because I was already quite familiar with many of the players and their stories from having read about them in various books. Of course, the museum was born with the disadvantage that very little in the way of memorabilia and artifacts from the league was kept for posterity. So there’s mostly just a lot of photographs, newspaper clippings, and text panels. It was all good stuff, but without Buck’s personal tour, my visit wouldn’t have been particularly memorable. And I wouldn’t even think to bring my kids, who are now 9 and 11 and love baseball and loved Cooperstown but would be throughly bored at the NLBM.
Which is a shame, really, because there is so much rich–and still very relevant–history for the museum to explore, and in so much more vibrant ways. I don’t profess to know how to run a museum or how to raise money for a museum, but there’s got to be a way to make this museum more of a destination than simply something interesting to do with your time while you’re visiting KC for some other reason.
John Q:
I heard a rumor that KC even has electricity and should have indoor plumbing by this summer.
Gary,
I never said anything derogatory about K.C.
I simply pointed out the distance of the Museum to large population centers limits the about of visitors that can easily visit.
There’s about 104 million people on the east coast of the U.S. from Maine to Florida. There’s about 50 million people on the west coast.
So that’s 150 million that would need to take a plane to visit the museum. That’s not even counting 25 million people in Texas, 6.6 million in Arizona.
Also, it’s not a destination place for vacations. Sorry, but people just aren’t planning vacations to Kansas City Missouri.
Cooperstown is in the middle of nowhere where up until the 1990’s was literally a mom and pop town with almost no facilities nor accommodations. The reason the Baseball Hall of Fame stayed open was because it was a car ride away from major populations centers in the Northeast.
@JohnQ – “I’ve lived on the East Coast my whole life and I’ve never even met anyone who has even been to Kansas City once!”
I don’t know about you, but that sounds somewhat derogatory to me. Look, I don’t know where you are or anything about you, but Kansas Citians do not need to be reminded about how far they are from the coasts, or how no one wants to travel to a cowtown. We are reminded anytime we travel about how no one has ever been there. I was born in KC and lived there for 27 years. The overwhelming sentiment is the midwest is just a place you fly over on your way to the coast. You may not have meant is to be derogatory, but it is.
Tampa Mike,
How the heck is:
“I’ve lived on the East Coast my whole life and I’ve never even met anyone who has even been to Kansas City once!”
A derogatory statement??? It’s the truth.
It just goes to show how remote K.C. is from the east coast and the fact that it’s not a vacation or tourist destination.
I’ve never met anyone who’s ever been to Winnipeg, is that a derogatory statement about Winnipeg???
I’m 43 years old, I’ve lived in New Jersey my whole life I’ve never met anyone who’s been to Kansas City. I’ve known people who have been to almost every city in the U.S. but Kansas City never came up as a city they visited.
If the major problem with a niche museum is the amount of visitors that frequent the place, then maybe the location has something to do with it.
“The reason the Baseball Hall of Fame stayed open was because it was a car ride away from major populations centers in the Northeast.” – Thank heavens for the almighty Northeast then….
“I’m not knocking K.C. it’s probably a wonderful place and the people are probably very nice, I’m just saying that no one on the East Coast is going to plan a vacation to K.C. unless the’re visiting a family member or driving across the country.”
During a cross-country drive last summer – not to visit anyone, but to see the country – we stopped in KC, my first visit there. And of all the places we stopped, Kansas City is the one I most want to get back to – even ahead of some of the wonderful national parks we got to see. The NLBM actually held my sons’ attention better than the Hall of Fame. The World War I Museum is fantastic – one of my very favorite museums anywhere.
Now, I’ll readily admit – this came as a shock. I expected to enjoy our stop in KC, but I never expected it to stand out as a highlight of the trip. And – living outside of Boston – we are now planning to make another trip out, to hit all the things we missed the first time, and spend more time at those we had to cut short.
Including, hopefully, the NLBM.
I grew up in Wisconsin, lived in New Orleans for a while, now I live on the East Coast… and I’ve never been to Kansas City. I do have one friend that worked there, on a short project.
Look, the dude from Jersey is making a decent point. Clearly, there is a lack of interest in the museum, and re-location makes some sense.
Wow, you midwesterners are really sensitive.
John Q makes a perfectly valid point and you’re reacting like he said everyone from a state which doesn’t touch the ocean should be put in a gulag. Get over yourselves.
Kansas City is probably a beautiful city – I’ve never been to it, but I love cities like Buffalo and Cleveland that are similarly mid-sized. If I ever make my long-anticipated cross country road trip, KC will definitely be a stop, and the Negro League HOF will be one of the places I will try to get to.
None of that changes the fact that the vast majority of the population of the US isn’t within driving distance of the city and aren’t going to fly there just to visit the Negro League Museum. Cooperstown is drivable from the most densely populated region of the country, and even people not from the area are more likely to visit the Philly/NYC/Boston corridor than are likely to visit Kansas City. The same would be true if it were located somewhere like Fresno, CA or El Paso, TX.
I wonder if people in Siberia constantly bitch about Russia’s “western border bias.”
Thanks Chris M., very well said.
Somehow my comments were interpreted as “Kansas City Bashing” which was never the case nor the intention. Or that people on the east coast hate K.C. and will never go there.
I still don’t understand how saying an honest statement like “I’ve never met anyone who’s ever been to Kansas City” can be interpreted as a derogatory statement towards K.C.
I was dealing with the problem pragmatically. If you have a museum that is in major financial trouble because of the lack of visitors then you have to consider your location as a major problem.
Kansas City is not within driving distance to anyone on the west or east coast. So you’ve basically excluded 150 million people. And like Chris said, no one is going to fly to K.C. just to go to the Negro League Museum.
Even for many people not living on the coasts it’s too far to drive.
It’s 6 1/2 hours from Minneapolis
It’s 8 hours from Chicago
It’s 8 hours from Dallas
It’s 9 hours from Denver
It’s 9 hours from Cincinnati
It’s 12 hours from Houston
It’s 12 hours from Detroit
It’s 13 hours from Pittsburgh
It’s 13 hours from Cleveland
It’s 19 hours from Phoenix
To me, they have 4 options:
They either have to close, drastically scale down their operation, get someone to subsidize them or move to a different location.
I’ve been to the museum and like some other commenters on here, I feel no reason to go back. I liked it, but its pretty small and I feel like I saw what I needed to see in the visit.
That being said, it needs to exist, and I think it needs to exist in KC. Moving it to Cooperstown does nothing. The guys are already enshrined there and it needs to stand on its own. But the fact that MLB does so little for it, is basically criminal. The heritage needs to continue and they need the help. If Bud told Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson to get to KC and do a fundraiser they couldn’t say no. And neither could Willie since he’s on a book tour right now.
Here’s the thing: no critical mass. You can bleat and moan about it should be in KC and honouring Buck’s wishes blah blah. But in 3 years it will be closed so it won’t be in KC and it won’t be honouring Buck’s wishes (he’s dead by the way). And Joe will have wasted his money.
Accept the fact that it was a nice idea but that it should have been executed somewhere else. Be smart, keep your eye on the big picture, and for f***s sake be a bit hard. If you can’t move the people to you (and the proof here is that you can’t) then move to the people. Weepy sentimentality must have been the death of may a worthwhile thing.
I’m from the East Coast and I’ve been to KC! Really! I had a great BBQ sandwich.
Taking the Negro Leagues Museum away from Kansas City would be taking the soul of the Museum. Taking the Museum away from Buck already took a little bit of it’s soul. The league was started at the YMCA just a couple of blocks away from the Museum. Kansas City was an epicenter for the league. Losing the Museum would be a huge loss for this city. The Museum might not be full of interactive exhibits or artifacts; however, it is a special place because of what the league and its members represented, and continue to represent today. The Negro Leagues Museum is right where it should be. It survived under Buck’s tenure, and it can be brought back to life now.
“I still don’t understand how saying an honest statement like “I’ve never met anyone who’s ever been to Kansas City” can be interpreted as a derogatory statement towards K.C.”
There’s not much to say after a comment like that.
I hope it all works out for the museum, and look forward to Joe’s post later in the week.
Well said Frog,
Spud,
“I hope it all works out for the museum”
Wow, that’s really dealing with the problem.
So saying “I’ve never met anyone who’s been to Kansas City” is a derogatory statement”???
How can making a statement about geography be implied as derogatory?
I’ve never met anyone who’s ever been to Salt Lake City Utah, so by your logic that’s a derogatory statement??
There must be places in the U.S. that you haven’t visited or met people who haven’t visited? So the only way you can speak about these places according to your logic, is to make a derogatory comment??? That makes no sense.
K.C. is a 18-25 hour car ride to major population centers in the the East. It’s a about a 25 hour car ride to major population centers on the west coast. Sorry, but you’re not getting people to hop on a plane to go see the Negro League Museum in K.C. Missouri.
My statement is a statement that that shows the distance Kansas City is from large population centers in the United States. It also shows that K.C. is remote and is not a destination/tourist place. If you wish to interpret that as derogatory that’s your prerogative.
For the record and as a follow-up to my post #37 – I hope they don’t move the museum from KC, and I do hope that they figure out a way to make it more viable there, and I do hope I make it there someday. My original post may have come off a little harsh – I was just trying to defend John Q’s point, but in no way do I want it to sound like I’m saying KC doesn’t deserve the museum or anything like that.
Everything’s up to date in Kansas City
They gone about as fur as they can go
They went and built a sky scraper
Seven Stories High!!!
About as high as a buildin’ ought to go.
You can turn a radiator on whenever you want some heat
With every kind of comfort every house is all complete
You can walk to the privy in the rain and never wet your feet
They went about as fur as they can go
YES SIR
They went about as fur as you can go.
Well, it is Joe’s blog. And he lives there. By choice. So it would probably be appropriate to not say things about his town that could be seen as uncomplimentary, even if you did not intended for it to be that way.
I have only been to Cooperstown once, 16 years ago, but I know several people who have also been there. And I liked it quite a bit.
Lot of Midwesterners in really deep denial here.
Nobody takes vacations to Kansas City, Missouri. If your town can’t support the Negro League Museum with the population of your own metropolitan area, the museum needs to move.
Spud,
What did I say that was “uncomplimentary” about Kansas City.
I was just quoting facts of geography and population and people got defensive and accused me of bashing K.C. Saying K.C. is a 18-25 hour car ride to the East Coast is a fact not a derogatory comment.
I have nothing against K.C., it’s probably a wonderful place, 10 times nicer than New Jersey I would think. Nor did I ever say that K.C. didn’t deserve to have a nice museum like that.
But, if you have a niche museum that’s in serious financial trouble mainly because the place lacks visitors then your location is a major problem.
The bottom line is it’s not close to any of the large population centers in the U.S.
And I don’t see why the museum has to be in K.C. There were plenty of Negro league teams on the east coast, NY Black Yankees, NY Cubans, Baltimore Elite Giants, Baltimore Black Sox, Philadelphia Stars, Brooklyn Royal Giants.
Newark Eagles were one of the best Negro League teams with players like Irvin, Dandridge, Doby, Wells, and Day.
Then you had the Crawfords and the Grays from Pittsburgh. You can make a good case for Pittsburgh being a good place for the Negro League Hall of Fame.
Too far to drive [from a major city], puuuhhh. I’m from Alaska…to get from my hometown to where my college was, it was 10 hours one way. How many states would you pass thru if you left DC or Philly and drove 10 hours down the nearest interstate?!
I personally can’t wait to see KC (and the NLBM) and the rest of the Midwest. I’m thinking in September…
Nobody wants to mention that there are less than 300K African-Americans living in KC? I’m not saying that white people dont go to the museum but I think that moving it to NYC with its 3.5 million African-Americans might help. Not to mention NYC is a day trip from DC, Philly, and Baltimore (#s 4, 6, & 11 cities by African-American population).
Additionally, I would think that raising money for a museum in NYC would be a LOT easier… although im sure the cost to run it would also go up.
John Q is right — why even have anything in Kansas City at all? It’s so far away from so many people, you’re practically just *asking* to go out of business. First and foremost on everyone’s mind when choosing a location for something should be, “How can I make this convenient for people living on the East Coast above everything else?” Once you realize that is the most important thing, it becomes clear that you’re simply a fool if you *don’t* choose a location on the coast..
John Q –
It is obvious that your logic isn’t appreciated here. Instead of providing other ideas for how to save an institution from financial failure, the folks like Joe Blow would rather accuse you of KC/Midwest/anything-not-Northeast bias.
Some would call it an “inferiority complex.”
Arob,
If you notice none of the people who have attacked me have given one example of an alternative solution to the problem.
To me, they seem quite content to have the museum close rather than have the museum move to another location out of K.C.
I never said it has to be on the east coast. Move it to Chicago or Pittsburgh.
Instead, they’ve given me nothing but immature glib responses and accused me of bashing K.C.
It’s just a fact that lots of West and East Coasters see the Midwest as the fly-over zone. That’s just the way it is. I say this as someone who grew up in California and now lives in Lawrence, Kansas. My relatives think I live in a wheat field. They simply have no idea.
John Q is not saying anything derogatory, just stating facts. Whether or not you agree that the museum should be moved, it’s a defensible point that the location might be keeping away some visitors. Don’t shoot the messenger.
“Kansas, I’m told, received the fewest tourism dollars of all 50″.
That’s a quote from one of Joe’s earlier posts http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/12/02/the-state-of-kansas-pop-culture-4/
Now, ask yourself: If I wanted to put up a small museum where is the last place I would I put it?
Or alternatively ask yourself this: If I had a small museum that I want to wither and die where would I put it?
John Q: Don’t know how you became the bad guy in this. The mental gymnastics people can put themselves through to feel slighted by what you have said is extraordinary.
It’s not an inferiority complex — John Q is continually giving a ridiculously obvious answer to a question that isn’t being asked. It’s not, “Where could we locate the Negro Leagues museum so that it’s closer to more people?” It’s, “How can we save the Negro Leagues museum that *already exists in Kansas City*?”
His answer is simply, “Move it! No one I know wants to go to Kansas City!” So, yeah, if it ultimately can’t survive in KC, relocation to a different area is a pretty simple and obvious answer. But that’s not the case at this point. And continually harping on the fact that KC is some random spot in the middle of the country that nobody wants to go to doesn’t really add much to the conversation..
Joe Blow@57: Question 1: “How can we save the Negro Leagues museum that *already exists in Kansas City*?”
Answer: You can’t. so move to question 2.
Question 2: ““How can we save the Negro Leagues museum?”
Answer: Move it
…and you can’t save it in KC because of the reasons that John Q mentioned. Seems to be a key point don’t you think?
I live about 1,500 miles from KC but I’ve been there on vacation. It isn’t that hard — take a couple of weeks, stop a couple of places on the way, continue on to another couple of places, then stop at another couple of places on your way home. The Negro Leagues Museum was well worth making KC a stopover, as was the attached jazz museum, Arthur Bryant’s Barbecue, Royals Stadium and the Harry Truman library, not too far away in Independence, Mo., one of the best American history museums there is. I understand why more people haven’t been to KC, but it’s a shame more people don’t make the effort.
The Negro Leagues Museum is also one of the few things having anything to do with baseball that my wife can abide, so there’s that. I do hope it survives.
Please go back to what John Q originally said. His first post was basically, “I’ve never been to KC, I don’t know anyone who’s been to KC, and it’s *extremely* difficult to get to. So why not move the museum to Pittsburgh?” KC, as pointed out, is not hard to get to … it’s a matter of wanting to go. Which John Q doesn’t. That’s fine. It’s just that when you’re reading a blog from a fabulous writer, and KC has become his beloved home (and you know thousands of his longtime readers call KC home, too), maybe your first reply shouldn’t be, “Just move the museum to some city I’d care about visiting.” Are Midwesterners sensitive? Who isn’t sensitive about their home? Then when we say anything to defend our home, we’re called immature, illogical rubes who have an inferiority complex. Guess what? It gets old.
And it’s not as if museums don’t exist anywhere other than on or near the East Coast. So it seems the question is this: Is location really the problem, or is the museum itself/those running it the problem?
#61 Ring65. Thing is your home was never under attack (and still isn’t) and so that’s why we’re surprised (bemused might be a better word) at the stiff reaction from the defenders.
Anyway, your last paragraph is mostly sensible with a slight reword – Is location the problem, or is the museum itself or is it those running it? (I still contend that even the most well run niche museum is going to be hard up against it in a low tourism location). Would be facinating to see the attendance numbers and match those up with some of the key events.
And I did say in post 58 that the museum couldn’t be saved in KC. That was wrong, what I meant is that it can’t be self supporting – you’d need to find someone with deep pockets. If they were my deep pockets I’d want my good works to be available to the most number of people…
John Q., I think, makes a reasonable and fair point about the challenges associated with the museum being located in not just KC, but in any smaller market (I think KC has fallen to the 32nd largest DMA in the country). But the museum ain’t moving, at least any time soon, hopefully, which means museum leadership needs to become at least minimally competent at marketing the museum–a task I can tell you from first hand experience with the Jazz District and the NLBM that they’ve failed miserably at since its inception, in my view. I’ve live in KC and virtually never read or hear anything (positive) about the museum. No promotions. No events. No buzz. Nothing. Very frustrating and disappointing to have this gem in our community, and have it continually struggle due to poor and politically-driven and dysfunctional leadership.
Ring65,
So according to you, the only reason people in the Northeast don’t want to go to the Negro league museum in K.C. is because they don’t want to go there?
The 18-25 hour car ride has nothing to do with it??
You make this incorrect assumption that it’s as easy for people from large population centers in the North-East, Michigan, Ohio, Maryland, to go K.C. as it is Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh is a 5-6 hour car ride from NY, Kansas City is a 21 hour car ride from NY.
Frustrated,
Yeah, that’s part of the problem but part of the problem is that it’s a niche Sports Museum celebrating a 40 year time period that many people weren’t even born when it happened, situated in an area of the country that is remote from the large population centers.
Someone brought this up before but it’s also isolated from large black population centers in the U.S.
Also, I would think by it’s nature, you’re not going to get a lot of repeat visitors to a museum like that. People may go once or twice but it’s not enough of a draw for people to return 5 or 6 times for a 4-8 hour+ car ride.
Take the Baseball HOF. It constantly is inducting new players so there’s always new interest. Plus because it has such a wide scope as far as time period 1848-2009, and geography.
Frog,
I think your last post #62 was very valid.
It can stay in K.C. but it has to do one of two things:
1-Get someone or some group to subsidize the operation to keep it in K.C.
2-Drastically scale down the operation so it can operate within a smaller budget.
But in the end wouldn’t it make more sense to move it to an area where more people can see it so they can learn about the Negro leagues?
I mention this before but I don’t see why K.C. should be the only logical place for Negro league museum. Sure the Monarchs were a great team and the league was founded there, but there were a lot of great players/teams that played in New York, Newark and Pittsburgh.
John Q–
Good point re it being a niche museum, and that there’s no reason to visit more than once. But I’d point to the tremendous success of KC’s National WWI Museum, which is also challenged with the fact that it showcases a war that ended over 90 years ago and was foreshadowed by WWII (it’s even referred to as the “Forgotten War”). But because the museum focused on aggressive PR and marketing around the globe, literally gaining considerable press in over 50 countries, and sustains interest and awareness locally with constant events, symposia/lectures, promotions, school outreach programs, a grassroots “ambassador” support group, and other activities, the museum consistently exceeds it aggressive attendance forecasts by getting repeat visits from locals (I’ve been four times in the past year), and by attracting a significant number of visitors not just from across the U.S., but from around the world. Admittedly, interest in WWI might be more widely-held than negro leagues baseball, but if the NLMB did one-tenth the amount of ongoing aggressive and smart marketing as the National WWI Museum, I’m confident they’d not be in the perennial financial hole they find themselves unable to climb out of.
Frustrated,
It seems so much of the museum is tied to Buck O’neil.
On the one hand that was very good because O’neil was a very popular celebrity/ambassador for the game of baseball. I think O’neil drew people to the museum because they wanted to see him and to talk to him. In a sense, you had to go to K.C. if you wanted to see O’neil.
On the other hand, now that he’s dead, there’s no longer that huge celebrity draw that was Buck O’neil. So a lot of the panache about the K.C. museum is gone.
I understand your point about the WW1 museum but going back to my original point the location and distance of K.C. from major population centers is the problem.
From either coast it’s a week excursion to go to K.C. and 4 of those days are spent driving. Unfortunately the reality of the situation is that K.C. isn’t enough of a draw for most people to spend that kind of time and money.
And as far as airline travel, I’ll tell you what people in the northeast do because that’s where I’m from.
If someone from the Northeast is going on a airplane for a vacation/trip, and staying in the continental U.S. they’re basically going to 3 places:
Florida
California
Las Vegas
Sorry to say but K.C. or Missouri or Kansas are pretty low on the list for vacations. That’s not me disparaging these places it’s just the truth.
John Q,
Please tell us *again* why no one on the East Coast wants to visit Kansas City. We just didn’t get it the first 15 times you said it. Actually, we did get it. You don’t want to drive here because it’s too far away and it you don’t want to fly here because you don’t think there’s anything to see here. In other words, we should have no tourist destinations in the Midwest.
Maybe St. Louis needs to send the Arch to Pittsburgh, it would be easier for you to drive to.
And we were all under the delusion that people wanted to visit KC just as much as they did Florida, California and Vegas. Thanks for enlightening us that’s really not the case. Who knew?
I mean, seriously, we understand geography. So how about enough with the posts “explaining” to us it takes longer to drive from NY to KC than to Pittsburgh. The whole point of this was how to save the museum in KC. And if it can’t be saved, then maybe it will move. But I don’t think that’s the option that Joe is trying to find now.
Ring 65,
Obviously you and your fellow Kansas City residents don’t “get it” otherwise I wouldn’t have to repeat myself 15 times with dozens of examples.
Instead of discussing this topic rationally you’ve acting like petulant children because someone had the “gall” to inform you that K.C., Kansas & Missouri, aren’t major tourist destinations.
Sorry, people aren’t hopping on a flight to go to the Negro League Museum. Because of this, you’re dependent on car travel. If you’re anywhere from 8-25 hour drive from the major population centers in the U.S. and your museum is reliant on car travel, then your tourist attraction has a problem.
You have a K.C. tourist attraction that lost $200, 000 last year mainly because there were a lack of visitors. So obviously K.C, Kansas & Missouri can’t sustain the museum in it’s current format.
You have 4 options:
1-Close it
2-Move it to another location
3-Scale-Down the operation so it can function within a smaller budget.
4-Find someone to subsidize the museum in it’s current form.
Another enlightening response from John Q, our resident “See ‘n Say”..
*pulls string*
“Nobody wants to go to Kansas City!”
*pulls string*
“An 8-25 hour car ride is long!”
*pulls string*
“The East Coast is where it’s at!”
Frustrated, I thought Korea was the forgotten war?
As I read Joe’s post and the article he referred to I couln’t see anything about trying to *keep it in Kansas*. It was simply about what a shame it would be if it closed.
I have a 2 travel parallels in my life.
My son has 2 equally wonderful grandmothers. One lives within a bike ride. The other lives on a different continent. My son sees grandmother 1 twice a week. My son sees grandmother 2 once a year.
I also have 2 wonderful grandmothers. Have to take a plane to see either. 1 lives in a major metropolitan city, the other lives in a small country town. I feel bad about it but we visit granmother 1 more because there is a bunch of other stuff to do while we are there. Sad but true.
Joe, you’re obviously emotionally invested in this enterprise in a big way. I’m surprised you don’t write more frequently about it here – it’s your blog after all. Look forward to the longer post.
“why even have anything in Kansas City at all?”
As you say, you definitely shouldn’t have any museums there. At least no museums that can’t be supported solely by the KC metropolitan area.
John Q … for the last time. We do get it. We are in the Midwest, and it’s far away from the East Coast. We know KC is not a destination spot to most travelers. What we object to is that your need to keep “informing” us of this in such a condescending way, as if we’re so amazingly stupid and delusional that we didn’t know it until you told us. There are tourists sites here that do work, and so the challenge is to figure out if there’s any way to save this one here. Maybe you can please stop calling us immature, petulant children just because we want to focus on possible solutions that don’t involve moving the museum.
Frog: “Kansas, I’m told, received the fewest tourism dollars of all 50?.
How is this relevant to the discussion? Perhaps if you had bothered to learn about the NLBM, or God forbid, leave your current home to visit it, you’d learn that the NLBM (like the Royals, Chiefs, and the WWI Memorial) are in Missouri. Why is it of concern what a neighboring state’s tourism revenue is?
Paula, you’re right, it’s irrelevant. Lazy reading on my part. You’re right to pull me up on it.
[...] never taken the time to go check the Museum out. Now I am reading about the financial problems, questionable decision making and leadership, and now speculation by some that the entire thing should be moved to [...]