Denkinger
Posted: January 19th, 2010 | Filed under: Baseball | 101 Comments »
ST. LOUIS — Don Denkinger is a nice man. Only a nice man would come to the St. Louis Baseball Writers dinner to be the resident villain at a night that honors the 1985 St. Louis Cardinals. You will note the 1985 Cardinals did not win the World Series. Many people in St. Louis will tell you that Don Denkinger is the reason they did not.
But there he was Monday night, sitting in the back row, right next to Todd Worrell at the largest head table in all of sports award nights. The dais or platform or head table or whatever you want to call it was four rows deep. There had to be 50 people up there. It’s like this every year. The first row is for the Baseball Writers. The second row is for the big stars — Albert Pujols, Ozzie Smith, Lou Brock, Whitey Herzog and so on. The third and fourth rows are for those Updike called the “gems of slightly lesser water*” — for those players and personalities who contributed and occasionally starred, for those names that rattle our nostalgia, for a couple of minor leaguers who may someday become stars, for an umpire who missed a call.
*“Gems of Slightly Lesser Water” would be a GREAT name for what many people like to call the “Hall of Very Good” (and what I have called the Hall of Fame Jr.). It would be for those people who for one reason or another are not quite in the Baseball Hall of Fame but played a big role in baseball history.
“Where you going on vacation this year, Bob?”
“I’m taking the family to South Euclid to see the Gems of Slightly Lesser Water.”
“Wow, what will you see there?”
“Well, of course, there’s the Hall of Baines Professional Hitters Wing. You’ve got the Crafty Lefty Wing of Scattered Hits. You can get dirty in the Kuiper Diving Stop. You can see plaques for Roger Maris and Don Larsen and Norm Cash and Pete Reiser and Dwight Gooden and a bunch of others in the ‘Brilliant For a Time’ Hall. …”
They sat Denkinger in the top row, far left-hand corner, right next to Todd Worrell, where, apparently, he would be out of range for most of the night. And it was a long night. These are always long nights. I have been to many award nights in my life — I have been master of ceremony for a few of them — and so I know the pace and the lighting and the taste of banquet chicken. Award nights are, by their nature, tedious because they mostly involve kind introductions and grateful acceptances. And these are almost always tedious. The Oscars will try (and usually fail) to spice this up with a funny host, the element of surprise and a few musical performances, but there are no surprises at a Baseball Writers’ award night* and Ricky Gervais isn’t available to host, and Billy Joel and Tina Turner aren’t popping in to sing the music from Oliver.
*What? Colby Rasmus was named the Cardinals Rookie of the Year? No way! And who won this year’s Bob Broeg Award?
No, this award night — all 22 awards — relies on the wit and stories of the people on stage. Fortunately, Whitey Herzog was being honored, and he offered up some classics. For one, Vince Coleman recalled that Herzog promised to get him a Cadillac if he went 5-for-5 his rookie year. Well, Coleman in his second game in the big leagues went four-for-five with a double a triple, a run scored and two RBIs against Pittsburgh.* He asked
*Funny thing is that Coleman remembered also stealing four bases that day … and he did not steal an bases. He was caught stealing by Tony Pena the only time he attempted to steal. It’s common — human even — to confuse games and remember things out of order and mash achievements together. Still, you would think four hits in his second game in the big leagues would make that day crystal clear. Coleman would not steal four bases in a game until late September at Montreal.
He would not get five hits in a game that year, but in 1988 he managed five hits against the Reds. He remembered Herzog at that point giving him a toy Cadillac.
“You know,” Willie McGee would say, “I remember Whitey promising to buy me a Cadillac when I got five hits too. But I never went to him to collect.”
Whitey Herzog on his one power hitter, Jack Clark: “I could tell blindfolded when Jack Clark was taking batting practice because the others sounded like they were hitting underwater.”
Whitey Herzog on his team’s power: “Every year, we tried to break Maris’ record … as a team.”
Stuff like that. Tony La Russa went to the microphone and ripped the writers, like he always does. That always plays well with the crowd. Lou Brock talked about the winner of the “Lou Brock Stolen Base Award” never shows up (Michael Bourn did not show up this year either) and so he has a collection of Lou Brock Awards in his trophy case. Mark Buehrle announced (again) that he hopes to play for the Cardinals someday.
Jack Clark — who will definitely be played by Alec Baldwin in the movie — was cheered by the crowd as he managed to say a few words about baseball without calling Mark McGwire a fraud. He read the crowd correctly. Bob Costas made a couple of benign McGwire jokes (“I could tell right away that Mark was no longer juicing as soon as he came to the interview because we are now the same size”) to blank stares and a few angry murmurs. McGwire, himself, did not attend.
And the night ended with Albert Pujols thanking the city and telling everyone that his elbow feels fine and the ball is jumping off his bat. The left people with a warm glow. Pitchers and catchers report in less than a month.
But all night, I found myself watching and thinking about Denkinger. I long have thought that baseball — all sports, really — are filled with presumptions. In St. Louis, people presume that if Denkinger had made the right call, the Cardinals win Game 6 of that World Series. In Kansas City, people presume that, either way, the Royals were going to come back and win that game. There is no way to prove either point of view, but this does not make anyone less sure that they’re right. Royals fans will point out that there was only one out when the winning run scored and that Kansas City came back from oblivion that entire season and that the Royals won Game Seven 11-0. Cardinals fans will simply say that the Cardinals won 101 games, and they were leading, and the call was wrong, and that changed history and stifled fate.
And even though 25 years have passed, that call still lodges in the throats of people. Sure, the fury has faded — it isn’t like those days and months after Game 6 when Denkinger was receiving hundreds of vicious letters and phone calls — but it isn’t like everybody has forgiven. When he was introduced at the banquet, he was booed. I suppose an announcer might call them “good natured boos.” I’m not a boo-ologist. They sounded like regular boos to me.
A few years ago, I wrote a bigger piece on Denkinger. I went to his house in Arizona, went to lunch with him, talked with him at length about his career, the call, his emotions about it all. He is still emotional about it. He doesn’t want to believe that the call defines him. And yet, I think he believes that the call defines him. That’s a tough dance.
It’s funny: At the moment that it happened, the missed call did not seem especially important. It was the first batter of the inning. The Cardinals still led by a run. They had Todd Worrell on the mound, and he had been unhittable. Then Jack Clark dropped a pop-up. Steve Balboni singled — something Steve Balboni did not do often (in his career, when he did not hit home runs, Bye Bye hit .181; he only hit 395 singles in more than 3,440 plate appearances). There was a botched sacrifice. A passed ball. An intentional walk. A Dane Iorg single. And suddenly, the Denkinger call was infamous.
Denkinger refused to change his telephone number during the deluge of rage. He refused also to apologize — an umpire, he insisted, can only do his best. People would sometimes joke about it, but it never seemed especially funny to him and it never seemed especially funny to many other people. Five years ago, Whitey Herzog invited him to appear at a reunion of the 1985 Cardinals. Denkinger refused: “I’m not coming down there to be insulted.” But Herzog gave his personal promise that there would be no insults. Denkinger came. And it was a nice night.
And here, five years later, Denkinger appeared again. There were no insults on this night either. A few people said nice things about Denkinger, who was a very good umpire. Todd Worrell talked about how he had always hated Denkinger but sitting next to him in the fourth row Worrell found him to be a nice guy. Tony La Russa talked about how Denkinger helped him grow up a young manager. A lot of people talked about his skill as an umpire and, after all, nobody’s perfect.
Denkinger was given a standing ovation by the many people on the dais when he was introduced. The people in the banquet hall, however, did not stand. There were a few of those boos, and then those faded as people seemed to realize that maybe this wasn’t the time for boos. There was quiet while Denkinger spoke and the quiet followed by polite applause — everyone could admire the man for appearing. But as Denkinger walked out of the Hall, I heard this exchange:
“It’s nice that he came.”
“Whatever. He still blew the World Series for us.”
I couldn’t tell if Denkinger heard that. I guess it doesn’t matter. He’s heard it before.
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It’s okay if you miss.
Denkinger’s speech should’ve started, “A dropped pop-up? Blowing a sacrifice? An intentional walk? Where is Posnanski? Apparently we need the master wordsmith to tell you that a minor blown call does not a game lose. C’mon people.”
You’d think Cardinals fans would’ve gotten over it after all the help they got from the umps in 2006.
A better first baseman probably takes that play himself.
the denkinger thing is very similar to how Oriole fans feel about Jeffrey Maier. We all think that changed the direction of the series and the Orioles would certainly have won that game. i still feel sick about it.
People always want to put the blame of losing a game on one instance i.e. Denkinger, Bill Buckner, Cub’s fan (whatever his name is). One mistake or blown call didn’t lose any of those games. You can blame Jack Clark just as much as Denkinger.
blaming somebody just helps you to sleep better at night. you dont feel better if you lost for genuine baseball reasons, either.
i still hate joe carter.
I read a piece about him a few years ago and it turns out he was a very good ump. He umped more WS than anyone else – He was the home plate umpire in game 7 in 1991.
Highlight the 11-0 lose in game seven. Cardinals fans, and possible Cardinals themselves, want to cry about the call, when they should have been concerned with the thumping they took in game seven.
If the team was so good, and got so royally screwed, they should have manned up and won game seven.
Josh, did you watch the 06 Series? Help from the umps? The Tigers pitchers helped a little, but not sure the umps made a bad call all series.
As for 85, i’m pretty sure Card fans have moved on (7 division titles, 2 pennants, 1 ring in the last decade). I’m pretty sure Royals fans still live in 85.
First of all, why is it that you never stop by my house when you are in St. Louis. I still have a copy of The Machine, the Grienke cover, and the Pujols cover for you to sign.
Secondly, I often credit Denkinger with solidifying my status as a Royals fan. I was a casual fan, but when I showed up in Columbia as a freshman at Mizzou and my roomate had a poster of “the call” I had to immediately take a stance.
Not only was I forced to declare my loyalty to the Royalty, but I have also despised the Cardinals (with the exception of Pujols)
since ‘88.
Last year we were riding the Metro to the one of the Games witht the Royals. My son was wearing as much KC gear as I could get on him. Not more than 5 seconds after we got on the train we were treated to a story about how Denkinger had ruined some guys wedding night. Apparently, at the reception they were watching the game because as you know Cardinals fans are the “best fans in baseball.”
Also, in ‘87 the Cards lost because of the ventilation system in the Metrodome.
Nonsense,
As a Royals fan living in The Lou, I can tell you that they have not moved on.
K.C. fans have eternal hope and optimism while in The St.L they have elephantine memories.
@10 NONSENSE
We don’t live in 85, we are over that. We live in the dumps!
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by royalsfeed, Darrin Widick. Darrin Widick said: Joe Posnanski on Don 'The Call' Denkinger at the St. Louis Baseball Writers dinner, which honored the '85 team. http://bit.ly/5aCQNt [...]
ok, whatever… I’m just saying that any Cards fan younger than 30 doesn’t even know who Denkinger is and could care less about the 85 Series.
@Nonsense
Alright, you got me. I am over 30.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure Denkinger was the Home Plate umpire in Game 7 in 1985. Talk about throwing gasoline on a fire. Little wonder when things started going badly Whitey, Andujar and Tudor lost their cool.
I happen to root for both of Missouri’s teams. I would point out to the Cardinals’ only fans that if the Home plate umpire didn’t squeeze Leibrandt in the 9th inning of Game 2, it is likely that Game 6 would have been played with the Royals up 3 games to 2, not down.
Joe, are you coming to the BBWAA dinner in NYC on Saturday? Kinda figured you’d be here to see Greinke pick up his hardware.
Denkinger’s call was horrible but seriously, what’s hardly ever brought up are the 6 or 7 things the Cardinals did after that call that cost them the WS.
And the Cardinals can say what they want about that ‘85 team but if they don’t trade for Cesar Cedeno on August 29th, they don’t even get into the playoffs.
In one of the biggest fluke events in baseball history, a 34 year old Cesar Cedeno on his last legs, hits .434 with 6 HR and a slugging percentage of .750 during the last month of that season.
That trade was looked upon as a nothing trade that ended up winning the Cardinals the division.
Dan Holden:
You probably think Cardinals fans have not moved on because much of your interaction with them comes as a Royals fan. Of course that will come up if you are going around puffing yourself up as a Royals fan in St. Louis and proclaiming your hatred for the Cardinals. Of course there are idiot Cardinals fans (just like any other fanbase) that will continue to harp on something from that long ago, but most of us have moved on. It’s strange that you have so much anger about the whole situation since you root for the team that actually won the series.
Great story. Buckner was a similar figure in Boston, until people realized that sports are played (and umpired by) humans. Probably makes sense to get over it after a (long?) while.
Meanwhile, there’s a “he asked” in the seventh paragraph that got truncated. What did Vince Coleman ask for?! (Guess: a Honda Accord?)
It is beyond lame when people blame one play on changing the fortunes of a playoff series. Steve Bartman is a great example of this; there’s no proof that Moises Alou would have even caught that foul ball, and besides, Mark Prior still had an opportunity to get Luis Castillo out. The Cubs blew that game, and series, and to blame Steve Bartman is an insult to our intelligence.
The same goes for Don Denkinger, who as Joe notes out made one bad call while the Cardinals made several bad plays, and then got blown out in game 7. And Bill Buckner, who may not have beaten Mookie Wilson to the bag anyways, and who did not blow the save in that game 6, and the Red Sox lost game 7 anyways.
It may be easier for our mind to accept a scapegoat for a playoff loss, but these are team meltdowns, not the result of one unfortunate incident.
@10
Claiming that they don’t care is always a go-to strategy for Cards fans when it comes to the Royals.
They claim that they don’t care about the Cards-Royals series each year, just in case they lose. They then always brag about how many fans show up at Kauffman Stadium each year.
Joe Brinkman dare not show up for a Cleveland Indians 1995 reunion.
And if he did, they’d stick his chicken on the table a foot and half away from his plate.
Just have to second Nonsense (#10) – Josh, what umpiring were you watching in 2006? I can’t remember a single thing that blatantly helped the Cardinals that entire postseason. Actually the only thing that comes to mind is Kenny Rogers, a Tiger, apparently using pine tar for at least part of Game 2 of the World Series.
@ Nonsense.
“ok, whatever… I’m just saying that any Cards fan younger than 30 doesn’t even know who Denkinger is and could care less about the 85 Series.”
That is nonsense. I am 24 and have to hear about it (over and over) every year down at Mizzou. You kid yourself to say people (under 30) care less about Denkinger and the ‘85 series.
Has anyone ever produced win probability graphs for the 1985 Series?
Would be fascinating to see what the Cardinal WP was after the call and what it would have been had the call been made correctly.
I’d bet the blown call does not rank among the five most impactful plays of that Series.
Even if it did, I don’t see the value in booing a 73 year old man unless the guy is literally a war criminal.
A lot of so-called baseball experts like to invoke heart and guts. Isn’t the complete meltdown of the Cardinals indicative of a lack of heart and guts?
The presumptive certainty of a Cardinals’ triumph was there even before the series started–few so-called experts picked the Royals to win; even fewer Cardinals’ fans picked them. Denkinger’s blown call is salve for the psychic disonance caused by the Royals being the better team in that series.
Joe’s mentioned it before, but Bill James’ essay on the ‘85 series, which is featured in “This Time Let’s Not Eat the Bones,” is a must read.
I always thought the Cards lost in 85 because Vince Coleman couldn’t dodge the tarp machine.
@20 Roarke
No hatred. Just observation. Cardinals fans love to hate. They hate the cubs. They hate the Mets (pond scum). They hate the air conditioner. And they hate Denkinger.
Blues fans hate the Blackhawks and the Redwings.
Of course Rams hate Bill Bidwell.
All of this of course is said with love for the town I have lived in for the last 13 yrs. I always manage to get to a non-Royals games at Busch each year, but I still have a hard time rooting for the red. Oh well.
Only idiots blamed Buckner. Even if he makes the play, the game is still tied going into the 11th. And I doubt Bob Stanley was going to beat Mookie Wilson to first, anyway, meaning there’s two outs and Ray Knight is now on third instead of second.
It’s Clemens’s fault the Sox lost that World Series.
Its funny that Royals fans and columnists have this insecurity about a series that they actually won. They feel the need to legitimize their only championship whenever the name Denkinger comes up. Like “we’re needed over on Pasnoski’s thread to defend 1985 again.” Just enjoy the glory days of the early 80’s and come to terms with the fact that you will never be significant again.
…and Cardinal fans will enjoy our 10 other World Series Championships.
“Nonsense”
A commenter that truly lives up to their name….
Clemens’ fault, Josh? He was pulled from the game with a lead. It was the manager’s fault for leaving Buckner in the game and leaving Schiraldi on the mound after three straight hits. Buckner is the least to fault as is Stanley. The fault lies with the manager and Schiraldi. In fact, if Clemens was left in an inning longer, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.
up in these parts Maple Leafs fans still blame Kerry Fraser for a missed call on Wayne Gretzky. Kings went on to win that game, when a Leaf win would have clinched the series.
Of course they also lost game 7 at home.
I watched that series and the Cards/Royals and remember both well enough.
The idea that Vince Coleman’s injury cost the Cards the Series is amazing. That’s some friggin’ dissonance with reality.
Is it just me, or does it seem like the 1985 Cardinals are a more beloved team than the 1982 Cardinals, who actually won the World Series? True, the ‘85 team was better, but isn’t bringing home the title the main thing?
If I were a Cards fan from that era I’m sure the ‘85 loss would sting, no question about it. Still, might the memory of having won it just a few years earlier mitigate the loss somewhat? Why harp on the one that got away when you already have one in the bucket?
Does the winner of the Bob Broeg Award win a Ham&Egg Sandwich??
Dan Holden:
In your own words: “but I have also despised the Cardinals…” So maybe not ‘hate’, but despise. You are no different. In fact, it seems from your comments that you relish being the guy in St. Louis that ‘despises’ the Cardinals.
The way you describe St. Louis fans is true of any fanbase. Mizzou fans hate Kansas and vice versa; Red Sox fans hate the Yankees; Giants fans hate the Dodgers. It’s true, Blues fans hate the Blackhawks; Cardinals fans hate the Cubs; and St. Louisans that grew up with the football Cardinals hate Bill Bidwell. So what? That’s part of the fun of fandom and I don’t think that St. Louisans do it anymore than any other fanbase.
Rational Cardinals fans don’t hate Denkinger and there are more of us than irrational fans (the irrational ones are just more vocal about it). I am also over 30 and I have lived in KC for the last 10 years while most of my family is still in St. Louis. In my experience, people in KC bring up 1985 a lot more than people in St. Louis.
I was just having this argument over the “tuck rule game”. someone tried to say that play decided the game. I said the other 120 plays decide the game. Some people can’t get it through their heads that there are hundreds of opportunities for deciding how a game comes out, and no one opportunity (even if it happens at the end of the season, or the end of a game) decides the outcomes generated.
@roarke,
Eat some Gates for me. I’ll have some Imo’s and call it even.
P.S. I do hate Kansas. Rock Chalk Chicken Hawk.
I forgot. I will have Ted Drewes too.*
Terra Mizzou
@Mickey,
Like most things in America the media/people tend to focus on the most “outrageous” event and disregard the rest of the story. And in this case, the “outrageous event isn’t even one of the top 5 things that happened in that game.
The WP (Win Probability) for the Cardinals at the bottom of the ninth when the inning started was 80%. They were still at 46% to win at the time of the Dane Iorg single. Think about it, Iorg grounds into a double play and the Cardinals win the series. The Orta missed call isn’t even one of the 5 most impactful plays of that game!!
Here’s the list:
Dane Iorg 9th inning single: 46%
Brian Harper 8th inning single: (-25%)
Daryl Porter’s Passed Ball: 21%
Balboni 9th inning single: 18%
Jim Sundberg 9th inning sac bunt: (-18%)
Orta’s 9th inning single: 13%
Ozzie Smith’s 6th inning double play ground out: 13%
G. Brett’s 6th inning double play ground out: (-11%)
D. Porter’s 8th inning strike out: (9%)
G. Brett 8th inning strike out: (-8%)
D. Cox 6th inning pop up: (8 %)
D. Porter’ 6th inning single: (-8%)
Those are the top 12 most important plays of game 6. Orta’s single is tied for 6th!!! along with O. Smith 6th inning double play ground out.
In reality, Ozzie Smith was as much to blame for the Cardinals losing that game as Denkinger.
Daryl Porter’s 9th inning passed ball is never brought up but it was a huge play in the series. His 8th inning strikeout is another important play.
Jim Sundberg’s messed up sac bunt in the 9th was another huge play that almost cost the Royals the series and it’s never brought up.
G. Brett really played badly in this game with his 6th inning double play and his 8th inning K.
Another point that’s never brought up was Herzog’s decision to leave Danny Cox in the game to bunt in the 6th inning with a man of first and second with no outs.
See Dan, we can agree on some things (MU/KU wise), although I prefer Bryants or Danny Edwards to Gates (not to start that argument).
@24 – that would be pretty darned funny if they did put Brinkman’s chicken a foot-and-a-half off the plate…
I think it’s the nature of sports fans to have long memories for things like this. If I wear my Isles sweater to Philly, the first resident I see invariably will curse Leon Steckel’s name. Never fails.
@#45 Nightfly — and heaven help you if you wear a Potvin jersey to Madison Square Garden!
#37–Best team is way different from champion. The Royals teams from 75 to 81 all were superior to the 85 version, which had immortals like Biancalana, Sheridan, Motley, Balboni, Pryor. A great starting rotation got them by the Blue Jays and the Cardinals, both of which were better. I have always preferred the 77 Royals.
Bottom Line:
StL is full of a bunch of private school rich kids that think their city is the shit, when it is clearly a freaking dump with no value other than that stupid arch (which was put in the wrong damn city to begin with). They aren’t better than Chicago their “rival” and they aren’t better than KC.
You ask anyone around the country or the globe and they say that KC is a much better city. KC is more culturally significant, more diverse, better atmosphere, better midwestern values for raising a family, people are waaaay nicer, and as far as sports are concerned it is basically structured like a college town with KU, KSU and Mizzou all converging there.
StL is just a dump full of whiny little children.
And don’t give me the “the best fans in baseball” argument. That is a freaking joke. Of course its not hard to be a baseball fan when your team is winning and using steriods and YOUR BEST PLAYER GREW UP AND WENT TO COLLEGE IN KANSAS CITY.
So you are welcome StL.
I want to go to the Gems of Slightly Lesser Water. It sounds more cool than the Hall.
The Marv Throneberry Wing!
Mitch,
You are a whiny little bitch.
kc and stl, mu/ku/ksu: please stop all that crap. joe’s blog isn’t the star’s message board. as for game 6’s 8th inning, don’t forget that orta didn’t even score, but was called out at third before the next run scored. all’s canceled out, anyway. ridiculous.
Nonsense:
I have no problem with your pride over the Cardinals history – there is no denying their status as the best NL organization of all-time.
I WILL take issue with you saying the Cardinal fans have moved on from 1985. As a Royal fan living in Cardinal country (Jeff City), I guarantee you I hear about Denkinger’s call at least a dozen times a year – basically ANY time a baseball discussion involving the Royals, Cardinals, or post season ever comes up.
If it makes Royals fans feel any better – these same so-called “best fans in baseball” also bitch constantly about the Metrodome and the 87 series as well.
By the way – being outscored 28-13 while batting under 200 in a 7 game series, then blaming it all one one blown call by an umpire is JUST AS ASININE as it reads here.
I’ve said this before somewhere in comments on this blog, but it always amazes me that when people rehash who the Red Sox goat was in Game 6, they never mention Rich Gedman. Morgan, Clemens, Buckner, Stanley, Schiraldi…they all take heat but Gedman gets a total historical pass.
Take another look at that “wild pitch” that tied up the game (and allowed Knight to move into scoring position). It doesn’t hit the dirt and isn’t all that far inside. It very much should have been a passed ball and Gedman gets no heat at all for not even coming close to stopping it.
If the Royals were big market like the Cubs or Red Sox, the national media would be talking about the “Curse of Don Denkinger.”
Other than winning 11-0 the next night, the Royals have not sniffed the playoffs.
I opposed interleague play when it began because I figured even if the Cardinals always stomped the Royals it wouldn’t make up for 1985. I had family in KC and started attending the series in June of 2002. I endured three games of endless 1985 references (signs and planes flying overhead) and never once mentioned the D word. I decided I was officially over it.
So congratulations 85 Royals. Now do something else if you would please Royals. Just not at the Card’s expense.
Maybe it’s different outstate in the hinterland where loyalties are more evenly divided and where the Royals and Cardinals fans have to interact with one another regularly. However, as a KC native who has been living in St. Louis for the greater part of the last 20 years, I think the vast majority of Cardinals fans in the St. Louis area have moved on from 1985/Don Denkinger (especially since winning the WS in ‘06). I can’t remember the last time I even heard Denkinger’s name mentioned before today.
@Nonsense, did you read the last couple paragraphs of Joe’s post? Doesn’t sound like a fan base that has “moved on” from 1985.
Not only did Balboni single, he singled on an 0-2 pitch. One of the worst 2-strike hitters in baseball (he led the league in K’s that year), facing a strikeout pitcher. Worrell couldn’t close the deal.
All i can remeber is how much i loved baseball and now the embarassing,endless losing has left me a bitter, empty shell. Way to go Bin Laden
Not every Cardinals fan is short-sighted enough to blame a loss on umpire. Some of us actually have common sense, and can walk and chew gum at the same time. Dekinger isn’t the reason the Cards lost the ‘85 series, and anyone who still thinks that needs to take a good look in the mirror.
@43, John Q – Thanks, that’s a great list.
Pardon my ignorance but is WPA also calculated in terms of impact to an entire series? If Orta’s single boosted KC’s WP for Game 6 by 13%, what did it do to their WP for the entire Series?
It would be incredibly interesting to see a ranking of the most impactful WS plays in history in terms of WPA for the whole series, as well as some plays – like the Denkinger call – that were not nearly as impactful as mythology would lead you to believe.
You want to have some real fun? Walk into a downtown St. Louis bar wearing something with KC on it, order a Miller product from the bartender, and after he brings you a Bud anyway, yell “Denkinger was right,” at the top of your lungs. Really spices things up.
Hilarious. I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen the comments here get a little snarky. When the conversation is fueled by knowledge of statistics everyone is so dispassionate and objective. When the topic is fueled by memories of heartbreak/jubilation…not so much. For the record, I’m a Cardinals fan, and if I ever saw Denkinger, I’d tell him, “no hard feelings.”
@ #43 – John Q, thanks for posting the probabilities – one thing to keep in mind though, is that in reality, the comparison to make is not simply how much the win probability changed due to the single alone (going from nobody on, nobody out to man on 1st, nobody out), it also would need to be compared to what the probability would have been in a nobody on, one out situation had the correct call been made. Using a win expectancy calculator (the first one I found was at http://winexp.walkoffbalk.com/expectancy/search), it shows that in 1985 there were 151 games where the home team trailed by one run in the 9th inning with one out and nobody on. They won 11 of those games, which was slightly more than a 7% success rate. By comparison, in 1985 a home team that trailed by a run in the 9th with a man on first and nobody out won 38% of the time. The impact was more than just a normal leadoff single – it was the matter of taking a leadoff out off the board and replacing it with the leadoff single.
In the interest of full disclosure, I had the misfortune of being a Cardinals fan that was in Royals Stadium at the time, and can definitely still remember how the call energized a crowd and a Royals club that was deflated after the Cardinals took the lead in the 8th and then struck out George Brett with the tying run on base in the bottom of the 8th.
That doesn’t excuse the Cardinals performance in Game 7, as they still had their best pitcher ready to go, and they laid an egg and completely lost their composure once the game was out of hand.
There’s also no question that the Cardinals self-destructed in Game 6 after the blown call, and you could argue that Jorgensen should have been a defensive replacement for Clark in the 9th (who not only cut off what would’ve been a fairly routine 4-3 ground ball on Orta’s ball, and then butchered the Balboni popup), but from somebody who was there, I truly don’t think those other things happen if not for the momentum change from the Denkinger call.
Obviously, I’m far from unbiased, and I certainly don’t wish Denkinger any ill will, and absolutely denounce the Cardinals “fans” that sent the threatening letters or harrassed him or his family. I respect him for coming to the dinner in STL last night, but I sure wish he’d have made the correct call!
TJMac@50: That’s putting it far, far too mildly.
I have to admit, I kind of cringe every time I’m talking with someone and I find out they’re a Royals fan. They always bring up Denkinger. Always. They always tell me how wrong I am for blaming him for the ‘85 Series loss. They always do this before I’ve said anything about the subject, and before I’ve expressed an opinion on the subject.
Does anyone else do this? Do Steeler fans belligerently confront Seahawk fans about the officiating in Super Bowl XL? Do Laker fans immediately go on the offensive when they meet a Kings fan for the first time? It just seems weird to me. I hear more about Denkinger from Royals fans than Cardinal fans, and I live in freaking St. Louis.
As a Royal’s fan in Missouri, the Denkinger call is brought up in conversation by St. Louis fans constantly, even by those who are too young to have watched the series. It is often brought up with bitterness.
While I agree it was a horrible call, it did not change the outcome of the series.
It was the 2nd worst call of the game, the worst being Frank White being called out stealing in the 4th inning (He would have been safe even on a force play), which cost the Royals a run. Then it would be 1-1 in the ninth and there is no doubt the Royal’s would have scored at least once.
The only out of the inning was a force out on Orta. With the pitcher moving towards 3rd and Orta being very slow, this was an easy decision and throw. If Orta had already been out Worrell would have had to make the decision as to whether to try and get the speedy Concepcion at 2nd, (a more difficult throw) or to take the easy out to 1st.
Let’s just say everything goes against the Royals. White is out in the 4th, Orta in the ninth, Concepcion for out # 2.
The Royals still score Sundberg to tie the game with 2 out. Wathan goes to third on the hit to right and they have first and third (perhaps even 2nd and third considering the throw to the plate) with Lonnie Smith coming up. If they walk him or hit him, Willie Wilson is next. With the runner on third, there is also the possibility of a score on a wild pitch or passed ball.
Worst case scenario, they go to extra innings, and I have trouble believing that the Cardinals could have mustered a run, considering they were in the midst of the worst offensive choke in post season history.
After getting back to back doubles in the first inning of game 5, the Cardinals went 13-91 (.143) with 0 extra base hits and 5 walks. (OPS of .330). They also hit into double play, had a caught stealing and a pickoff, erasing 3 of their 18 base runners over the last 26.1 innings. They went 1-11 with runners in scoring position. (.091) They were outscored 18-1. Yes, the Royals had as many runs as the Cardinals had base runners.
I am well aware that the Royals have been unable to compare to the Cardinals over the last 15 years, and that the Cardinals are a well run franchise, so make fun of my team now-don’t try to take away from a team that manned up and were clearly the best team in that World Series.
oops I guess that was 1-12 with RISP (.083)
I’m 29 and grew up and currently live in St Louis. I couldn’t agree more with Spielman. I’ve heard more about Denkinger from KC fans than those of the Cardinals. Are there bitter, irrational Card fans? Of course. But the vast majority of us are not of that ilk.
Finally, to the ignorant comment @ 48, the city is wonderful in places and is getting better, despite the Cardinals park fiasco. I lived in Tower Grove for years, and can’t think of many places nicer. Nothing against KC, which I’ve visited and enjoyed. I just like my hometown, too.
One last thing. Who cares who was the “best team” in that series? The Royals won. They deserve it. Good for them. I don’t think they were the best team.
The Tigers were a better team than the Cards.
The Cards were a better team than the Red Sox.
The best team doesn’t always win, but whichever team wins deserves it.
Mickey,
The WP is only for that one game. I guess you could go back and add up all the WP and see what player had the most impact in a series.
What I completely forgot about was the Daryl Porter passed ball which is never talked about. After Sundberg botched the sac bunt, again something nobody mentions, the Cardinals were at 66% to win the game. Porter had the passed ball and moved the runners from second to third.
Also, it’s interesting that Herzog left Cox in there to bunt in the 6th with men on first and second and no out. How come no one brings up the point that Herzog should have pinch-hit in that situation. Then Ozzie grounded into a double play that killed the inning.
Jack Clark also dropped a foul pop up that doesn’t factor into WP. Also, this was only game 6 not game 7.
Denkinger’s call was horrible but blaming him for the loss is weak.
I was looking up Mazerowski’s 1960 home run and it’s interesting that it’s not even the most important play of that game. What gets completely forgotten is Hal Smith’s 3 run home run in the bottom of the 8th when the Pirates were down 4-7. That was a 64% WP. Remember when Maz came up the score was tied 9-9.
KC is obviously better than STL. It is closer to Lincoln!!!
Some comments:
1) It’s hard growing up a Cards fan no matter where you are to not hear about Denkinger. That’s just the way it is. Irrational though it is, it’s still a sore spot. He blew the call. It sucked The Cards blew the game.
2) The Cardinals didn’t have a chance in Game 7. Tudor’s arm was jello after throwing 305 innings that season (postseason included). Denkinger was behind home plate. Andujar was a lunatic. The team was demoralized. They were on the road. It just wasn’t going to happen.
3) The 1985 and 2004 teams are far more beloved to Cards fans than the 1982 and 2006 teams. They were both better teams than the ones that actually won the championship and those summers were the funnest we’ve had in my lifetime. The 1985 team stole 314 bases while the 2004 team was an offensive juggernaut! The 1982 team was good but not great and the 2006 team got hot at the right time.
4) Be that as it may, I wouldn’t trade 2006 for anything. It was payback for the atrocity that was the 2004 World Series.
During that infamous 9th inning Darrell Porter confused Worrell when he pushed up his glasses with his index finger. Worrell mistook the sign and threw it outside. This advanced the runners to scoring position and eventually the winning runs scored on Iorg’s single.
The irony in all that is just unbelievable. Porter, an ex-catcher (beloved, I might add) for the Royals, adjusts his glasses and give his ex team the World Series.
If all this would have happened in New York or Boston or LA people would still go ape crap over it.
At least they show the Denkinger replay every year during the World Series, I’m very thankful for that.
Don’t forget steroids were used in baseball even in the 60’s and 70’s. So yeah, a juiced up Fisk hit 37 home runs when he was 37. Reggie Jackson was obviously using roids too.
Still, roids in baseball exploded after the 94 strike and DESIGNER STEROIDS made the epidemic much, much worse. A perfect cocktail of roids made players like Bonds into superhuman home run hitters. He would have hit 100 homers if they didn’t walk him 200+ times.
I went to StLouis this last summer and watched a game. A Cardinal player was out by half a step. The umpire correctly called the runner out. The fans in my section (right behind first base) went nuts.
I wanted to say to each of these nimrods, that they can never cry about the 1985 World Series again. They just blew the call!!!
The people saying that the Royals fans bring this up all the time are crazy. I have listened to many sports programs in StLouis and Cardinal fans bring this up all the time.
Look! Calls are part of the game. The umpire was not paid to make a bad call, he just did. Get over it!!!
Oops, wrong thread.
I’ll say this about Denkinger, he’s very brave to stand up and admit he made a bad call. The truth hurts but nowadays if someone comes up to him and yells “You’re blown call caused the Cards to lose the World Series” ole Denkinger can say “Yes, I admit I made one bad call. However, there were literally a dozen or more other factors that caused the Cards to lose the World Series”. If you still want to blame me, then that’s you’re choice”.
I don’t think Denkinger made that horrible call in the 4th inning. Who made that one?
i am an ohioian, so i am neutral in the missouri baseball rivalry
but i can relate with kc fans, as ohio state won the 2003 fiesta bowl with the help of a questionable penalty in overtime.
but these types of events only become legendary when the team that ‘got screwed’ ends up losing. how many times have there been crucial calls blown late in games where the ’screwee’ recovered and still won the game. i would imagine this happens far more often than a team choking after it gets screwed.
Wow – I can’t believe this comment thread really got this silly. If you look back at all of the comments as a microcosm of Royals/Cardinals relations, I think you’ll find that most of the Cardinals fans admit that the call didn’t cause the Cardinals to lose the series, although it was a factor. You’ll also find that most of us are over it. Then look at the Royals fans who continually bring it up and insist on expressing some kind of hatred or distaste for the city of St. Louis (ahem, Mitch). That’s just bizarre.
And Don @ 76’s comment is really telling. He was at a Cardinals game in 2009 and some fans complained about a call at first base (which happens in every stadium at some point in every game) and *he* immediately thought of 1985 and wanted to bring it up to those “nimrods”. So who is the one that can’t “get over it”?
@ Nonsense.
“ok, whatever… I’m just saying that any Cards fan younger than 30 doesn’t even know who Denkinger is and could care less about the 85 Series.”
Yeah, maybe the bandwagon Cardinals fans (I’m looking at you Nonsense) might not know who Denkinger is, so they’re “over it”. But I know plenty of Cardinals fans in Chicago who are 25 and under and when they find out I’m from Kansas City, Denkinger’s name is the first thing that comes out of their mouth. I guess you actually have to be a fan of your team and know a little about their history and care about them before you can even be upset about it in the first place. Maybe you should consider finding a new sport to follow.
During the broadcast of the Card v. Royals last summer the Cardinals broadcast inserted a little package about the call which replaid it several times.
The announcers then continued to comment on the tragedy.
Just sayin’ I never knew Denkinger until I moved to Columbia in ‘88.
St. Louis and K.C. are awesome towns, but the Royals rule!
Dan: Somehow we have lived parrallel, but opposite lives. I lived in St. Louis until 1989, then Columbia until 1992 and after a few forays to different parts of the country, I’ve now lived in KC since 1999.
Everyone has to remember that the *only* history between the Royals and the Cardinals is the 1985 World Series. It is natural that when one fanbase encounters the other or the teams play each other in otherwise-historically insignificant interleague games the only history that exists between the two teams will be brought up. This whole debate is silly.
I’d also like to note that while I consider myself a St. Louisan, I like KC and root for the Royals so long as they aren’t playing the Cardinals.
And if St. Louis had won game 6 and the series, then we’d still be talking, years later, about how the 2nd base umpire botched the stolen base that Frank White stole in the middle of the game — called him out and the next batter, Pat Sheridan, hit a run-scoring single — except that White was sitting in the dugout already.
@Doyle
a royals fan in chicago telling someone they need to get a new sport to follow…
First off, I was born in the early 80’s and I vaguely remember the 87 series and seat cushion night… so bandwagon, not by my standards, but that conversation is pointless.
To your second point – think about it, if I wasn’t old enough to remember the 85 series (30 or less, as stated previously) why on earth would you ever need to get over something that you were never emotional about in the first place?? Are any Cardinal fans out there still upset about losing the 1930 series? the ‘43 series? How about the ‘85 series? maybe some. Luckily, there is this thing called WINNING that helps people move on from the (distant) past. With that being said, Royals fans can dwell in the past as they’ve done for the last 24 hours on this thread, Cards fans will think about next season and our chances of winning another world series. Last I checked, Vegas had them at 8/1. See you in K.C.
The Denkinger curse is real.
Think about it. The Royals haven’t sniffed the playoffs since that WS. (their best team was 1989 when they might have been the 2nd best team in baseball, but unfortunately played in the same division as the best team in baseball before they had wild cards).
Who was the winning pitcher for the Royals in Game 6? Dan Quisenberry. Who, of course, died from brain cancer.
Who was the winning manager? Dick Howser, who was out of baseball with a brain tumor about 8 months later and dead from the same problem around 20 months later.
@ #83 – possibly so, although I think if Denkinger’s call had taken place in the 5th inning, and it led to a KC run, it wouldn’t have had the same perceived impact that the 9th inning mistake had, and we all would’ve forgotten about it. I think it’s primarily because there’s still much more “time to overcome” a mistake in the 4th or 5th innings than there is in the 9th. When the mistake took place in the final inning and the end result is a walkoff win in that inning, it tends to draw a bit more attention.
As much as Cardinals fans lament Denkinger’s call, it would have been exponentially worse had it been the potential 27th out, because (obviously) the series unquestionably would have been over, whereas with it being the first out of the inning, KC fans can maintain “we would have scored anyway”.
That’s why Holliday’s error this fall will likely be one that will remained burned into the Cardinals fans’ (bad) memory bank, since the game would have ended if the cacth was made. Despite the fact that there was still a chance for the team to escape that inning with the win, the ball hit to Holliday would have ended the game.
I don’t think Cardinals fans are debating that the bad call in the 4th inning may have taken a run off the board for KC (although, that makes the assumption that they pitch Sheridan the same way, have their defense set up similarly, and everything else happens the same way it did after White was called out).
Very few Cardinals’ fans would debate that KC outplayed them in the 7 games – few Cardinals fans would dispute that the team fell apart after Denkinger’s call and that they responded poorly to the bad break – but the point they’re making is that despite being outplayed in those 7 games, if the correct call was made in the 9th, the likely result is that the Cardinals would have had another World Championship.
And I think that’s probably correct.
Doesn’t mean Royals fans shouldn’t enjoy their championship any less, just like Cardinals’ fans shouldn’t feel bad about winning the World Series thanks in large part to the Tigers’ inability to execute basic PFP plays – just that a 9th inning mistake (or heroics) will be remembered far longer than something that happens in the early innings of a game.
@William #34 –
Of course, there’s also the still-held claim by BoSox manager John McNamara that Clemens begged out of the game. Based on what I know about their personalities and histories (not all that much, admittedly), I have to side with McNamara.
Clemens was, is, and always will be, a gutless putz. Just ask anyone, including his mother, he has thrown under the bus to back up his ludicrous “I never did steroids” argument.
I have no idea what Josh is talking about when he refers to the Cards receiving help from the umps in ‘06. They got a LOT of help during that postseason (Tiger errors, Aaron Heilman hanging curves, Pedro’s injury, etc.), but I don’t recall any from the umpires.
As a 15-yr-old Cards fan in 1985, I blamed Denkinger for losing us the Series. But like a lot of Cards fans I know, I don’t any longer. Yes, the Royals were supremely lucky to be on the good end of Denkinger’s call, and yes, the Cards were supremely unlucky. But champions fight through adversity, and the Cards didn’t — in fact they crumbled after Denkinger’s call.
A good friend of mine used to coach high school basketball, and during practice he’d ref the scrimmage games and purposely make bad, phantom calls. Why? To teach his kids that bad calls are part of the game, that you work around ‘em, no complaints. The ‘85 Cards could’ve used that lesson.
Having a game turn on something other than the players is maddening even if it’s not your team involved. And the Denkinger missed call was not even close – that had to really hurt in SL. Nice though to see the reconciliation towards him.
I suppose that technically the royals could have still won the game had he made the right call but I believe there is more that goes into it than just the one out.
First off clark seemed to be the most incensed and his adrenaline had to be raising to epidemic proportions, which by itself could have been enough to lead to him dropping the foul pop-up. He wasn’t that great a fielder but he wasn’t that bad either.
So IF the call lead to the biological change and that of itself was enough to affect the foul pop, then there would have been 2 outs with no one on base and the game would soon have been a 1-0 victory.
Consequently I will believe until the day I die (and longer if I am able to think about things after death) that the call cost the Cards the 1985 series.
I never felt as much anger as many other Cards fans did – just resolute. Of course I was more than a bit angry with the way herzog handled it by in essence saying the cards had no chance the next day with Don behind the plate instead of getting his team to be ready to go with a vengeance the next day. Or with the cards giving up and taking their vengeance out on the toilet.
But I “know” we were denied a WS victory.
#90- As noted before, the worst call of the game went against the Royals, after which there were actually 2 singles if the inning had gone on without the out.
As the Cardinal’s run was the only one in the last 26.1 innings, they had virtually no chance to win.
As for assigning blame to emotions, it is ridiculous. I could easily say that the Royals were demoralized by not taking their rightful lead in the 4th.
Maybe Clark had a fight with his wife, and was already angry, and the call pushed him over the edge-perhaps we should blame her.
(I know that seems ridiculous-that’s the point)
The Royals had adversity. They were down 3 games to one prior to game 5. They were robbed of a run early in game 6. They handled it like men. They persevered, and overcame.
The Cardinals are a fine organization with a rich history, but in 1985, the entire organization and fan base expected someone to walk in and hand them the crown after game 4. When there was a little adversity, they quit. They reacted like a spoiled toddler who has been told no. The manager quit, the players, who had spent two games concentrating more on planning their celebration than winning, went ahead and quit as well.
Despite the talent on the Cardinals, they did not in any way act like, play like, or deserve to be champions.
The ‘85 Royals were not one of the top 5 most talented Royals teams, but they were a legitimate, deserving championship TEAM.
Pujols is one of if not the best hitter in baseball. But for God’s (irony here, jocks) sake can’t he give up that Drank the Cool Aid Look to the Sky with one finger from each hand pointing upward every time he does something. It has Never been proven that God hates .220 hitters.
Somebody tell Albert. I love to see him hit then I throw up with the CultLook.
Joe says the Denkinger call at the time it happened “did not seem especially important.”
Excuse me? The first batter in the bottom of the 9th of a 1-0 game reaches safely on a horribly blown call and it didn’t seem especially important? As a Cardinal fan it damn sure felt important to me an instant after Orta was called safe.
It was certainly less important than the Royals missing out on a run in the 4th.
The most important factor in the ninth was that the Cardinals quit.
I think if the Cards had lost 5-4 in game 7 they’d have a better argument. When you give up or appear to give up it’s hard to blame the ump with any credibility.
The Royals were 2 games behind the Twins in 87, who beat the Cards in the series. They were second to Larusa’s juiced up A’s in 89. They’ve been pitiful since about 96 when they decided they couldn’t or wouldn’t compete financially with the rest of the league.
YES!! This is the FIRST time I’ve seen anyone mention the blown call on Frank White’s steal of second in Game 6 of the ‘85 Series. (Thanks #67, Khazad and #83 KC Refugee). I was starting to doubt my memory, as Denkinger’s call is all I ever hear about that Series. To suggest the call against White was less important then the blown call in the 9th is ridiculous.
So yeah, I’m still defensive about the ‘85 Series. When I read a story about Cardinals’ fans at an ‘85 Memory Lane dinner thanking the umpire that blew the call on White’s steal…. then I’ll figure they’re finally STARTING to let Denkinger off the hook and admit they just lost the damn game, and then the Series.
I was a freshman at UM Rolla in 1986–at the time the school was at least 2/3rds St. Louis folks. It was bad, real bad. For at least two years the follow-up to virtually any conversation on any subject that included the words “I’m from Kansas City” was an outraged “HE WAS OUT AT FIRST.” For years after that it was still a constant refrain.
Maybe Cards fans are “over it” now, maybe they aren’t–I haven’t lived in Missouri for years. But don’t blame Royals fans of that era for being just a little bit defensive…the “best fans in baseball” drove us to it.
Steve Balboni singled — something Steve Balboni did not do often (in his career, when he did not hit home runs, Bye Bye hit .181; he only hit 395 singles in more than 3,440 plate appearances).
They were, however, 395 of the most impressive singles anybody ever hit. To think that he managed them without ever killing a single infielder is a real tribute to both his humanity and his aim.
It’s not that a missed call on a SB in the 4th inning is “less important”, just that it requires a pretty big suspension of disbelief to jump to the conclusion that the rest of the inning (let alone, the game) would have transpired exactly the same way if the correct call had been made.
That’s why you don’t hear much complaint about John Schulock’s safe call of Sundberg at the plate in the 2nd inning of Game 5 that gave KC a 2-1 lead, and led to the inning being blown open with a later two-out, two-run triple. That would have impacted everything that happened in that game afterwards, that there’s no way to determine what effect Schulock’s questionable call had, and it’s largely forgotten now.
Comparing the call in Game 5, or the call in the 4th inning of Game 6 differs from a missed call that puts the leadoff man in the 9th inning on 1st base rather than in the dugout, since the latter requires a lot fewer steps afterwards (getting 2 outs before a run scores) to arrive at the conclusion that the outcome was dramatically affected in favor of Kansas City.
Now Balboni might’ve hit the next pitch from Worrell over the fence, or he might’ve struck out. – who knows? We can only guess what would’ve happened afterwards if Orta was called out, let alone how the 4th -9th innings would’ve turned out if White was called safe.
None of this excuses STL melting down afterwards, nor does it mean that anyone is saying the Cardinals necessarily “outplayed” the Royals in the series, only that despite whatever happened in the previous 5 games+8.5 innings, the Cardinals were in a position to win the series. It’s just that when you get to that point in the game/series, a call that incorrectly preserves one of KC’s three remaining outs, while also putting the tying runner on base, has a huge impact on the outcome.
Should the Cardinals have reacted better to the blown call? Absolutely.
If you want to claim that it’s a “makeup call” from early in the game, so it’s only fair that Denkinger missed the call in the 9th, that’s certainly your prerogative to look at it that way. But to me, putting aside whatever happened prior to that point, it’s silly to pretend that the call in the 9th didn’t play a huge role in tipping the series the Royals’ way.
On the call, while Cards fans have NOT forgotten it, they rarely bring it up. They will discuss, and at length, when others (usually Royal’s fans since that’s the only moment they’ve had in the last 25 years) bring it up or use it as a way to insult Cards. That’s when Cards fans get defensive and start talking about the call. They don’t go around to all their buddies or whoever discussing the call. We’re talking instead about Carp & Pujols, ect.
Did the call blow the WS? No, but what it did was unravel the Cards. You can say all you want about “manning up” and playing like a great team, but the Call was the first in a series of events that would have done any slapstick comedian proud. You could see the Cards self-destructing before your very eyes. It’s unfortunate, but that’s how it goes. Same way that the Card’s ‘04 team got spanked by a red-hot Red Sox team and that ‘05 team got beat by the Astros, only to see the mediocre ‘06 team get hot and win it all. That’s how baseball goes. Just like the ‘85 series was played w/out Coleman and ‘87 w/o Clark at full strength.
Royals fans would do themselves a huge favor by moving on. Stop bringing the call up and start worrying about what they need to do to become relevant again. It gets very tiring having this discussion about the call. I like the Royals and I cheer for them, not to the extent that I follow the Cards, but I do want them to do well. Time would be better spent on thinking if Trey Hillman will blow out Greinke’s shoulder like the way he did Meche.
John Q (post 43) has a great comment about the most important plays in the game in terms of changing the percentage probability of a win. For ease,
Here’s the list:
Dane Iorg 9th inning single: 46%
Brian Harper 8th inning single: (-25%)
Daryl Porter’s Passed Ball: 21%
Balboni 9th inning single: 18%
Jim Sundberg 9th inning sac bunt: (-18%)
Orta’s 9th inning single: 13%
Ozzie Smith’s 6th inning double play ground out: 13%
G. Brett’s 6th inning double play ground out: (-11%)
D. Porter’s 8th inning strike out: (9%)
G. Brett 8th inning strike out: (-8%)
D. Cox 6th inning pop up: (8 %)
D. Porter’ 6th inning single: (-8%)
[the list does not include Clark not catching Balboni's foul pop, which must have been at least an 18% change, since Balboni's hit and Sundberg's out were 18% changes]
Yet, I was there and have been a baseball fan for 50 years, and I have no doubt that Denkinger’s call was the most important play in the game and that the Royals almost certainly would have lost without that call.
By the way, I also thought Howser mismanaged that inning. Hemistakenly ran for McRae (whose run meant nothing) instead of Sundberg. It darn near cost him as Sundberg was almost out at home. I also did not think much of the bunt, but I realize many managers would do that.
Dane Iorg has never received the aclaim in KC that his base hit warrants (even though it was just a lucky soft liner). Herzog failed to let him pinch hit and get some love in game 7. I think his base hit was his last at bat as a Royal.