The Worst Football Game Ever
Posted: November 12th, 2009 | Filed under: Other Sports | 149 Comments »
There are, officially, six rivalries in the NFL. I realize that some people would suggest that one clueless fool with Internet access cannot make “official” proclamations … but they are wrong. We can. And we do. All the time. You can go all over the Internet and see!
Yes, there are six rivalries in the NFL. They are as follows (and in no particular order):
1. Browns-Steelers.
2. Chiefs-Raiders
3. Giants-Eagles
4. Cowboys-Redskins
5. Vikings-Packers
6. Jets-Dolphins
OK, to be fair, I do realize that there are some limitations with this list. For one thing, the Chicago Bears are not on it, and the Bears are really the quintessential NFL football team. The problem is that one of my official rules for my official NFL rivalries is that each team is only allowed one rival. And it has to be a match-up where each team despises the other team most. I think that Vikings fans despise the Packers more than the Bears. And Packers fans despise the Vikings more than the Bears. And it was that way before Brett Favre turned purple. Of course, maybe I’m wrong about that.
So that would make Bears-Packers and Bears-Vikings sub-rivalries. There are a lot of those. Bengals-Browns and Bengals-Steelers are sub-rivalries. Patriots-Dolpins is a sub-rivalry. Giants-Cowboys and Eagles-Cowboys are sub-rivalries. And so on.
The second limitation: I cannot include Rams-49ers on the list. This is because of the baffling St. Louis Rams. They have to be the most confused organization in sports. All you need to know this is to go to look at the Edward Jones Dome Ring of Honor:
– Bob Waterfield (Cleveland and Los Angeles Rams)
– Larry Wilson (St. Louis Cardinals)
– Norm Van Brocklin (Los Angeles Rams)
– Marshall Faulk (St. Louis Rams)
– Eric Dickerson (Los Angeles Rams)
– Crazy Legs Hirsch (Cleveland and Los Angeles Rams)
– Tom Mack (Los Angeles Rams)
– Dan Dierdorf (St. Louis Cardinals)
– Merlin Olsen (Los Angeles Rams)
– Deacon Jones (Los Angles Rams)
– Jackie Slater (Los Angeles Rams)
– Tom Fears (Cleveland and Los Angeles Rams)
– Jackie Smith (St. Louis Cardinals)
– Jack Youngblood (Los Angeles Rams)
Whew. This is an organization with an identity crisis. Rams-49ers used to be a great rivalry, but it has burned out.*
*To be honest, the Browns-Steelers rivalry has probably burned out too with the Browns leaving town** and then coming back and being screwed up and so on. But Cleveland and Pittsburgh as such natural rivals as cities, that I just have to believe it will come back.
**I did read this blog in Ravens Insider (I am briefly mentioned in it) about how the new Cleveland Browns are basically cursed because Cleveland fans cannot or will not let go of their Art Modell rage. It’s an interesting theory to which I can only respond (Bleep) the living (bleeping) (bleepity) (bleep) out of (bleeping) Art (Bleeping) Modell.
The third limitation is that I do not include more modern rivalries. The Patriots-Colts has become a great and interesting rivalry … but it really has no historical context. And as soon as Peyton Manning goes, as soon as Tom Brady goes, it doesn’t really have much interest left. The Broncos and Chargers could be a rivalry, I guess, though I find it hard to imagine anyone in San Diego has the time or energy for a rivalry. It’s too NICE OUTSIDE in San Diego to spend much time hating. The Lions rivalry with its own management might not be longterm.
Now, you will ask: What is the point of infuriating football fans by coming up with some an utterly arbitrary list of football rivalries? Glad you asked. I came up with another Twitter fanbole* the other day.
*You might remember — but probably not — that “fanbole” is an invented word — endorsed by the New York Times! – that means: “A sweeping, exaggerated and often ludicrous sports statement that a fan makes when under the influence of an emotional sports event (and perhaps various substances).“
Well, inspired by my good friend Tommy, I’m trying to coin another new word. The word is Missage. A noun. Crudely defined, a missage is the voice mail message you find yourself leaving on someone’s cell phone at the precise moment they are calling you back. You know how missages usually happen. You call someone and they don’t want to pick up — maybe they think it’s someone else, maybe they hear the phone but decide not to answer, maybe they misidentify the number. But then, they realize it’s you, and they call you back immediately while you are trying to leave the message. This inevitably leads you to say something ridiculous like: “Um, wait, that’s you on the other line, I guess you realized it was me, so I guess, you know, you can ignore this message.” That’s a missage.
That Twitter fanbole went like this: “Cannot wait to watch Chiefs-Raiders game Sunday. Don’t want to jinx it, but that has a chance to be the worst game ever played.” Well, as these things go, it inspired quite a few responses from people who totally disagreed and brought up other recent games that they felt certain were worse than this week’s Raiders-Chiefs game. There was the Browns-Bills catastrophe a month ago. There was the Redskins-Lions blight on society. There was the Rams-Lions horror show. There was every Lions game last year. And so on.
But, I found myself shaking my head. Those were dreadful games, no doubt. Someone mentioned the classically bad Redskins-Cowboys Monday Night game when they both came in 0-4 — the Cowboys won that game 9-7. That was some kind of bad.
But I think this Chiefs-Raiders game has a chance, a real chance, to be the worst ever, and it begins with the rivalries point: The Chiefs and Raiders make up one of official rivalries in sports. This isn’t some nondescript matchup between Tampa Bay and Carolina. Sure, those two teams on any given day could give you a harrowing football game. But they can’t give you that transcendent bad football experience that we want.
The Raiders and Chiefs can. This is a rivalry that goes back to the very beginning of the old AFL. These were the first two teams to represent the AFL in the Super Bowl. The first year the Chiefs were in Kansas City — that was 1963 — they played the Raiders in back-to-back games only five days apart. The Raiders beat the Chiefs 10-7 in Oakland and then drubbed the Chiefs 22-7 back in Kansas City. The next year, the Chiefs beat the Raiders 21-9 and 42-7. Already they despised each other.
Lamar Hunt, who pretty much liked everybody, could not stand Al Davis. And Al Davis, who pretty much despised everybody, saved a special place in his book of loathing for Lamar Hunt. Ben Davidson speared Len Dawson. Otis Taylor threw punches. The Chiefs beat the Raiders in Oakland to go to the 1970 Super Bowl, and the Raiders players had to walk out of the stadium with the Super Bowl luggage they had packed. The Raiders took discarded Chiefs quarterback Rich Gannon, gave him a new offense, and went to the Super Bowl (with Gannon winning league MVP). And so on. And so on. Anger. Frustration. Mutual distaste. It’s beautiful.
Now, the Raiders and the Chiefs are two of the league’s punch lines. It isn’t just that they’re both terrible lately — the Raiders have not had anything close to a winning record since going to the Super Bowl since 2002; the Chiefs have lost 30 of their last 33 and have not won a playoff game since BEFORE Kurt Cobain committed suicide in 1994 — but they’re also comedy gold. The Raiders are coached by someone named Tom Cable, who has been accused of hitting two ex-wives AND an assistant coach. The Chiefs just released Larry Johnson, who went bonkers on Twitter and has been arrested four times. The Chiefs put up signs outside their locker room telling players that only losers assemble and complain about coaches. The Giants’ Antonio Pierce, after his (apparently not great) team obliterated the Raiders said the game felt like a scrimmage. Oakland’s Greg Ellis conceded that his team is kind of the laughing stock of the league, while Chiefs coach Todd Haley talked about his team’s good week of practice before the Chargers bludgeoned the Chiefs 37-7. Oakland quarterback JaMarcus Russell is like an episode of The Simpsons every time he goes out there. The Chiefs’ Mike Brown has missed so many tackles that Pro Bowl running backs this year are expected to buy HIM watches.
So here you have this great rivalry between two remarkably bad teams. It’s the perfect setup. Also, the game will be in Oakland, where fans will wear spikes and pirate eye-patches and boo the hell out of everything and everyone that moves. Not that there will be much movement — the great Peter King was basing his Raiders-Chiefs pick on the quality of the two punters. The Raiders have scored six touchdowns all year, the Chiefs have not scored a rushing touchdown all year. The Chiefs have converted 22% of their third downs — worst in the NFL, of course. The Raiders leading wide receiver (and not tight end) is someone named Louis Murphy — he has 16 catches in eight games. The Chiefs have allowed 30 sacks while making 10*. The Raiders have allowed 13 rushing touchdowns while scoring 4.
Yes, these are bad football teams.
*But, hey, 10 sacks was what the Chiefs had all of last year.
The two teams have already played a jaw-droppingly bad 13-10 game earlier this year — won by Oakland. So they know each other. Yes, this game has all the makings, all the potential, to be so awesomely bad that Michael Bolton will sing about it*
*OK, so the other day, in a restaurant, I heard these six songs in order — and I DEFY you to every be in a place where you hear six songs this bad in a row:
1. We Built This City, Starship.
2. Run To You, Bryan Adams
3. Your Love, The Outfield
4. Hold on Loosely, 38 Special
5. How Am I Supposed To Live Without You, Michael Bolton
6. A View To A Kill, Duran Duran
I know now that someone will talk about how they like these songs. I have long felt that musical taste is personal, and if you enjoy them, I heartily endorse that. But man … that is my iPod playlist in Hell.
Of course, the Chiefs-Raiders game might not be bad at all. You never know with the NFL. Football is a game that can be bizarrely entertaining when two teams of equal ineptitude face off. But I’m holding out hope. I plan to order pizza, get some snacks, invite over friends, have my recliner in the basement all warmed up for this one. It isn’t every week that you get a chance to see what might be the worst NFL game ever. Of course, knowing the Raiders and Chiefs, they’ll disappoint even in this.
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I can not (bleeping) believe you just trashed “Your Love.”
“I think that Vikings fans despise the Packers more than the Bears. And Packers fans despise the Vikings more than the Bears. And it was that way before Brett Favre turned purple. Of course, maybe I’m wrong about that.”
You’re not. And as you said, this was the case well before Favre became a Viking.
Circle me Al Davis’ corpse.
I’d argue that Raiders/Broncos is just as much of a rivalry as Raiders/Chiefs.
I think Packers fans despise the Bears far more than the Vikings. It’s closer now that Favre’s in purple, but before that I don’t think it was close at all.
Not that you can prove any of this.
I think it’s great that you’ve picked up where Sniglets left off.
“Your Love” is the epitomical track to my youth spent sitting in the living room making up dice baseball and football games. I will always enjoy that song.
Also: Run To You doesn’t *totally* suck! How dare you!?
I’ve loved you for years, Joe, and I loved this post. But I demand you apologize for “Your Love.”
And you call yourself a baseball fan.
In the B.B.T.T. era (Before Brett Turned Traitor), Packers fan hatred was largely a function of geography. Fans in Milwaukee have always hated the Bears more, esp. since Milwaukee has an inferiority complex about Chicago. Fans in Northwest Wisconsin have always hated the Vikings more.
In the last 20 years, the Vikings games have meant more. The games usually decided the division winner and there are players who are legendary for a single play (Eric Guiliford, T.J. Rubley, Antonio Freeman). Randy Moss DESTROYED the Packers at Lambeau in 98. During that time period, each Bears coach has been allowed to only have one good year and I can’t remember a meaningful Bears-Packers game since Majikowski hit Sharpe in 89 for the disputed touchdown.
The Splenda has accurately described the dynamics between the Packers, Vikings and Bears. All other descriptions of the dynamics are not correct. This comes from personal observation while living in Western Wisconsin, Minneapolis and along the Illinois border for 30+ years.
Yep, the Splenda is exactly right. Though I’ve always hated the Vikings more, even though I grew up right outside Milwaukee.
“Your Love” — single best walkup song for a hitter ever. The entire crowd singing “I don’t wanna lose your love toniiiiiiiiiiiiiiight” as Frank Catalanotto stepped into the batters box at Miller Park this year.
>(Bleep) the living (bleeping) (bleepity) (bleep) out of (bleeping) Art (Bleeping) Modell.
(Bleep) yeah.
bears fan living in wisconsin for the past 5 years = sometimes scared for my life on sundays
When I got out of the Navy I said I’d never stand in another line. However, I’ll make an exception for peeing on Modell’s grave. Don’t care how long the line is it will be worth the wait.
I’m a Packer fan and the Bears are our most hated rival. It has gone back to the beginning of football. Yes we HATE HATE HATE the Vikings. But we hate the Bears more. The Packers are the middle team here. The Pack is the Vikings biggest rival along with the Bears biggest rival. But the Bears are the Packers biggest.
I’ll go off a point you made, Joe, where it’s not official if it won’t last. Well, right now the Vikings are a bigger rivalry, because of Favre. But that won’t last…
solid closing.
[...] See the original post here: Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Worst Football Game Ever [...]
I realize it doesn’t have the same historically epic nature to it … but as a Chiefs fan I freaking hate the Broncos far more than I ever will the Raiders. The 90s and that stupid horse face Elway put quite the rage in my heart.
Joe, for what it’s worth, here’s one person in complete agreement with you on “Your Love.” It’s crap. And I have a hard time imagining what could’ve made that playlist more nightmarish. Journey, maybe.
It’ll be a great game, like watching the Royals and the Indians battle for last place in the middle of September. Two evenly matched teams of similar skills, similar accomplishments, evenly matched. Two teams that are more alike than different. It’s going to be terrible, sure, but it will be entertaining.
I think it depends on where the Packers fans live. South of Green Bay, I’m pretty sure it’s Chicago. West of Green Bay, it’s probably Minnesota. It was the late 90s when I lived there (got there just in time for the Packer SB win), so things might have changed.
I think you could pretty much put every AFC West game (Chiefs-Broncos, Broncos-Raiders, Chiefs-Chargers, etc.) as being at least a sub-rivalry. The AFC West and the NFC East are perfect divisions. When Seattle left for the NFC, it made the AFC West the only divsion (except maybe, possibly the NFC East) where every team really hates every other team. The shame is how much this divsion stinks, making these really strong rivalries little more than footnotes, at least for the time being. Even the best teams in the division stink out loud.
Joe,
If the songs were that bad, how do you know the song titles and artist names?
Hey Joe, it might not be the worst game of the month. The Lions and Browns play each other next week. That’s the bizarro 1966 Notre Dame-Michigan State game for this NFL season.
And although they aren’t in the same conference now, they had a good rivalry in the ’50s, meeting four times for the NFL title with Detroit winning three times.
As a Raiders fan living with a Chiefs fan, I can not be more excited for this Sunday. Yes, both teams suck (although I would argue that the Raiders suck far less, and without JaMarcus we may have won as many as 5 games) but it is still the biggest rivalry in football. Hands down.
Also, how do you not mention Marcus Allen when talking about Chiefs-Raiders?
How do the Lions not factor into the Bears hatred? Ask this question in the 50’s and I bet a different answer arises.
[...] Ben Paynter wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptFor one thing, the Chicago Bears are not on it, and the Bears are really the quintessential NFL football team. The problem is that one of my official rules for my official NFL rivalries is that each team is only allowed one rival. … [...]
I defy any sportswriter to lucidly describe the differences between a Silver Slugger and a Gold Glove. I am convinced they simply cut/paste their votes for every postseason award.
Ladies and gentlemen, we present your 2009 Cy Young Award winners: Derek Jeter and Albert Pujols.
I suspect a pay-per-view special of Art Modell dying screaming in a fire would do a pretty brisk business in northern Ohio.
Heck, people are already keeping tabs on these sorts of things.
http://www.ridertown.com/news/MDW/MDW.html
Shouldn’t the Bengals-Steelers replace the Browns-Steelers on that list?
I mean these Browns are not even a real team yet. Plus the Bengals / PIT rivalry has been ratcheted up 4 notches after that guy “accidentally” rolled over Carson’s leg right when Palmer was about to rip off 5 great years in a row.
“Josie’s on a vacation far away”. Lucky bastard won’t have to watch this game.
I suppose I am going against history here, but, as a Chiefs fan, I hate the Broncos more than the Raiders. Perhaps it is the fact that in the last 20 years, we have been pretty dominant against the Raiders.
Perhaps it is the nightmares I still have about Elway, or my weekly renewed hatred for Shannon “Mushmouth” Sharpe. Perhaps it is the ugliest uniforms in the NFL, the arrogance of former coach Shanahan, the fact that they never really seem to suck, the fact that their new head coach is the one I wanted, the fact that they beat the Chiefs(in what may as well have been the Super Bowl) after the 1997 season (probably the Chiefs best chance- The two were clearly the best two teams in the NFL that year) in a game they BLATANTLY CHEATED IN WITHOUT EVEN RECEIVING A PENALTY!!!!! As a matter of fact they paused the game so they could go wipe the silicon off of their uniforms.
I have thrown up in my mouth even speaking about them this much. I need to rinse and take a pepcid AC.
BLEEP THE BRONCOS!!!!!!!
Living in Philly, I can say the Eagles biggest rival is Dallas.
You lose to NY, eh. You lose to DAL and you have to hide in shame.
I don’t think it’s close either. PHI fans rarely taunt the Giants (except Eli!), but they sell “Cowgirls” shirts during Phillies games.
@31
I’m a Steelers fan. The Bengals are not our biggest rival. If anything it’s Baltimore, but that may be due to the fact both teams have been good lately so we’ve had some good games.
But I’d still say CLE/PIT is the best rivalry of ours.
[...] from: Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Worst Football Game Ever By admin | category: football | tags: algerian, are-not, are-really, bears, both-teams, [...]
By the way, independent of rivalries, it would be hard to “bottom” the 6-3 Festival of Slugs that was Cleveland’s “win” over Beefalo. I was firmly convinced that game was going to end in a 3-3 tie (there was no real prospect of an extra period producing more points). Thanks to our MVP Dave Zastudil (ex-Raven, BTW) and the ineptitude of the Beefalo punt return game, we were spared that indignity, despite having a QB who went 2-for-19 thanks to multiple drops and an incurable case of Being Derek Anderson.
Oddly enough, every Browns fan I talked to fuly expected the 3-3 ending, while every Bills fan I talked to was equally convinced they would find a way to lose.
Honestly, that was a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible football game. Objectively speaking, I don’t think there can be a statistically significant greater level of Global Suck than there was permeating that entire game. Also, it was bad.
There’s no way this upcoming game will be one of the worst games ever. Look at last year’s game where the Chiefs won on the Raiders’ attempt at having Seabass run 20-some yards on a fake field goal.
That was terrible but it was far from being the worst game ever. Heck, there have probably been 3-4 worse games this year alone. The fake FG does add some points to the score for levity, after all.
And (faint praise alert) both teams are better now than than they were then. That FG game had the Raiders still newly into the Cable Guy reign while the Chiefs were in the death throes of the Herm era.
Okay, it’s like this. First, Chiefs-Raiders is still unquestionably more of a rivalry than Chiefs-Broncos. Joe succinctly laid out all the reasons for the Chiefs-Raiders rivalry save one (Marcus Allen). The only reason Chiefs-Broncos is a nastier rivalry than the mere rivalry between divisionmates can be summed up in two words: “Elway” and “Schottenheimer”, and most of the reason that was even relevant was because of some thing or another that happened to the Browns. Twice. Chiefs-Broncos wasn’t a heated rivalry before those two, and it stopped being one after they were gone. (No, Dale Carter does not count.) When the Chiefs were bad and Oakland was good, they still hated each other with a fiery passion. When the Chiefs were good and Oakland was bad, same thing. When a Chiefs-Denver game doesn’t mean much, nobody really cares. Unless it’s on Monday night, I guess.
Second, Chiefs-Broncos is a nastier rivalry than Raiders-Broncos; I have this on good authority from many people I have somehow managed to become friends with despite their inexplicable loyalty to a bunch of orange horses. No, they do not like Oakland, not one little bit; but they don’t like us even more. So if Chiefs-Broncos is bigger than Raiders-Broncos, Raiders-Broncos certainly can’t be bigger than Chiefs-Raiders.
Third, how many times has Joe posted something here about the Raiders and had the comments flooded with Raider fans coming to the defense of their beloved team, complete with excoriating diatribes concerning Joe just being a Chiefs-loving pile of excrement? Now, how many Bronco fans have you seen charging in here to argue his point? A couple of Chiefs fans have debated it, but they must be young’ns without the proper perspective. But I don’t see any Bronco fans piping up. (In fact, to be honest, I think there’s actually a certain respect between Bronco and Chiefs fans; no such thing exists on the KC-Oakland axis.)
I rest my case right there, really; it should be clear that Chiefs-Raiders is, in fact, the most hotly contested rivalry in the AFC West.
Jets/Dolphins? I can honestly say that that combination never came to mind in thinking about great rivalries. Hell, there are probably fifteen better rivalries than Jets/Dolphins.
Often, when the NFL changes divisions around, once-heated rivalries fade away.
I know many of you Clevelanders refuse to accept the existence of the Ravens organizations, but since they’ve won a Super Bowl and all, I think they should be allowed into this discussion. For a good long time, the rivalry between the TN Titans and the Ravens was truly wild. They often played each other 3 times a year, because both were invariably playoff teams. This was at the height of Ray Lewis’s and Steve McNair’s peaks as players. The games were almost always close, and ALWAYS dirty. They were (and still are) two of the most physical teams in the league…these events were freaking beastly.
Then the NFL honchos decided to move the divisions around. Typical.
This rivalry is one of the best in American sports (it can’t touch some of the European ones that have a full century of hatred behind them). I grew up in NYC. My parents, for reasons I never understood/knew, were huge Oakland Raiders fans. In 1969, I, as a 3-yo kid, “won” an iron-on Raiders patch in a box of cereal. I had my parents iron it onto the ass of my personal “teddy-bear”. Yep. Seriously. 3+ years old, and I wanted the Raiders logo on my teddy-bear’s ass…
I’m pretty sure that I was the only KC Chiefs fan in NYC then…
[...] this preview of this weekend’s Chiefs-Raiders game will likely be more entertaining than the game [...]
Agree with everyone who makes the geographic distinction with respect to the Packers v. Vikings/Bears rivalry. Packers fans between Chicago and GB would say the Bears; at some point in central Wisco moving west to the Twin Cities, it’s the Vikings.
I live in the Twin Cities and have to deal with Packer fans who have abandoned their home state for the greener pastures of Minnesota. These “people” remind me daily that they hate the Vikings more than serial murderers. I’m sure Bears fans in Chicago have to deal with the same phenomenon.
Of course, the Vikings have (with the exception of the miracle 2006 Bears team) a relevancy argument going back twenty years or so.
Yeah, I zinged both the Packers and the Bears in this post. 7-1 gets you that privilege, suckahs!
Trash talking aside, we can all come together and just feel pity for Detroit.
Seconding Mike @ 34: As an Eagles fan, I definitely hate Dallas about six times as much as NY. Same goes for every Eagles fan I’ve ever met.
I don’t know how far back this goes, nor whether either the Cowboys or the Giants consider the Eagles to be their biggest rival… but as far as our side goes, the ‘Boys are the enemy.
Which is why there should be a law banning Troy Aikman from calling Eagles games. Seems like he’s ALWAYS calling the Eagles, and I just keep waiting for him to bonk his head on the microphone and get a concussion.
Oh, and by the way, Joe –what did The Outfield every do to you? Did they kick your dog?
as an eagles fan, i agree, we do hate the cowboys much more. but Dallas probably doesn’t hate us as much. which makes me hate them more. also Miles Austin went to my college. go him. go only him.
whats the score gotta be for the worst game ever, though? For example, 13-10 at least could be the result of a dramatic 4th quarter drive. The worst game ever has to be like 13-3 with no drama. 2-0 would be pretty bad.
#45. i like the eagles. i actually like aikman’s calls.
What about Falcons-Aints? Not like there have historically been any stakes to those matchups…
I have A View to a Kill on my ipod actually, thanks to it coming on a James Bond Greatest Hits CD i got from an Aunt for Channukah.
I’ll admit its a guilty pleasure when the shuffler puts it on.
“Run To You” and “A View To A Kill” are both awesome. “We Built This City”, yeah, that’s one of the worst ever.
As a Pats fan, I can attest to the fact that they really don’t have a rival. We hate both the Jets and Dolphins, I’m not sure which we hate more, and I have no clue if Jets fans hate us or the Dolphins more and vice versa. If there’s such a thing as a three-way rivalry, this is probably it.
Back on the Chiefs, Joe and others are right…here in KC, the Raiders are hated far more than the Broncos. They hate Elway for damn sure, and genuinely dislike the Broncos, but the Radiers are at another level. By the way, has another franchise trotted out such an unending festival of ridiculous head coaches as the Raiders? Just look at them:
Tom Cable – Serial woman- and coach-beater
Lane Kiffin – Smarmy young pup, college cheater
Art Shell – The man with no facial expressions
Norv Turner – Bill Simmons’ running gag
Bill Callahan – Looked baffled in the pros, then wrecked the Huskers
Jon Gruden – Nicknamed after a horror movie puppet
Joe Bugel – 24-56 career record
Mike White – Who?
Art Shell – His face still hasn’t moved
Mike Shanahan – Rat face
Tom Flores – What was up with that hair?
John Madden – Anything funnier than old footage of Madden on the sideline with long hair, short-sleeved shirts and a necktie that didn’t reach his navel?
I mean, it’s basically been 40 straight years of punchlines and we haven’t even mentioned Al Davis yet. Hard to top that.
@41: Don’t forget Jacksonville. They had the added bonus of having stolen the expansion rightfully Baltimore’s, leading to us needing to listen to Modell when Cleveland decided the Browns were the third-class team in the city.
And Joe, I couldn’t hear any of your comments; I was too busy staring at all of my Super Bowl championship memorabilia…
According to Adrian Peterson, he despises the Bears more than the Packers, via his episode on MTV Cribs.
Joe,
When you heard those songs? Were you sitting in a college bar? That’s the only explanation I can think of.
I have to say as a Giants fan with many Giants fan friends, most of us loathe the Cowboys and Jerry Jones more than the Eagles (not to lessen that rivalry in any way). Jerry Jones and his team are in many ways the antithesis of the Giants and the Maras along with the many close games the two teams have played in the last few years, I feel that at worst it’s really a three way rivalry.
@ 39
As a lifelong Denver resident, I’m going to have to disagree with you completely. We don’t like the Chiefs, sure, but it’s absolutely nothing compared to how we feel about the Raiders. The Raiders are the only team that Denver fans truly hate, in any sport. The Red Wings are old pals compared to the Raiders. Honestly, I’ve never seen such irrational, over-the-top hate. It’s so ingrained in the Denver culture it’s ridiculous: if you were a Raiders fan in grade school in the 90s, you were going to get harassed and ostracized. If a Denver fan finds out someone is from Oakland, they have to bring up Raiders/Broncos almost instantly because otherwise it’ll hang over their relationship like the sword of Damocles. The best possible feeling every year was beating the Raiders in Oakland, and worst was losing to them at home. Nothing was worse than that feeling, it makes me feel nauseous just thinking about it.
I can’t speak for all Denverites, of course, but I’ve never seen anything remotely similar in regards to the Chiefs.
“How do the Lions not factor into the Bears hatred? Ask this question in the 50’s and I bet a different answer arises.”
I’d say that there’s a definite Chicago-Detroit rivalry in all sports (see: Bulls-Pistons of the 80s, Wings-Hawks on the rise now, Tigers-Cubs from way back in the day when they both played in the World Series against each other in like the 30s). I just don’t think anyone can really hate the Lions much. I think that we, as Michiganders, hate the Bears way more than any Bears fan can possibly hate us.
As a Broncos fan, I’m willing to grant Joe the Chiefs-Raiders rivalry over Broncos-Raiders, but only because Shanahan is not in town anymore. Don’t get me wrong, the Broncos and Raiders still hate each other, but Shanahan’s personal history with Al Davis made the whole thing a little more intense than your standard divisional battle. Mike coached every game against the Raiders with a zeal and cruelty unlike what you’ll see from most coaches. He’d run up the score, he’d blitz over and over, he’d do everything he could to make the Raiders – and Al Davis – look bad.
From the fans angle, I want to add that, while Chiefs fans might feel Chiefs-Broncos is a bigger rivalry than Broncos-Raiders, Broncos fans won’t agree. While we may be O.K. with the Bay, in general, there’s nothing a Coloradan despises quite like the Raiders. I think a number of teams despise the Broncos (the Chiefs and Browns come to mind, as do the Raiders), and most everyone hates the Raiders too… It’s only natural that there’s a more intense rivalry between the Raiders and Broncos than there is between the Chiefs and Broncos, because Denver and Oakland are two of the most hated teams in the NFL.
Gul @57 beat me to the punch, apparently… I’d definitely agree with what he says, though.
In terms of the Packers-Bears-Vikings dynamic, most here have suggested geography as the determining factor. But I think it’s age. (For the record, I’m from Milwaukee and I’m 27.)
Most Packers’ fans born in the past thirty years (meaning fans who were teenagers in the 90s or later) hate the Vikings more, because those games have determined the division most often in our lifetime. The Vikings also had many more players to hate than the Bears. We started getting into football after McMahon and during Moss.
Plus, the Packers killed the Bears in the 90s, and even this decade, when the Bears have been sporadically good, there has been more venom in the Packers-Vikings games (even before this year with Favre).
That being said, most of the older generations in my family hate the Bears more. The history of the rivalry comes more into play with them. They were raised to hate the Bears by their parents, who hated the Bears before the Vikings even existed (founded 1961). I think with each generation, it has swung more toward the Vikings, regardless of geography. There are exceptions, but that’s been my general experience.
Of course, the fact that we’re even discussing this goes to show you that the NFC North has the best three-way rivalry, followed by the AFC West (Broncos, Chiefs, Raiders). The best overall divisional rivalry is the NFC East (Cowboys, Redskins, Giants, Eagles). Having lived in DC for some time, I can attest that all of the fan bases for those teams hate each other passionately.
Speaking of awesomely bad, two of your six songs:
http://awesomelybadlyrics.blogspot.com/2009/10/starship-we-built-this-city.html
and
http://awesomelybadlyrics.blogspot.com/2009/06/38-special-hold-on-loosely.html
Sorry, Joe, I enjoy “Your Love” and “Hold on Loosely.” Not great songs, certainly, but very enjoyable. You replace “Your Love” with something by Paula Abdul and “Hold on Loosely” with “Mambo No. 5″ and I’m with you.
Garrett @ 41:
“the rivalry between the TN Titans and the Ravens was truly wild. They often played each other 3 times a year, because both were invariably playoff teams. This was at the height of Ray Lewis’s and Steve McNair’s peaks as players. The games were almost always close, and ALWAYS dirty. They were (and still are) two of the most physical teams in the league…these events were freaking beastly.
Then the NFL honchos decided to move the divisions around. Typical.”
——————————————-
To begin with, the Baltimore Ravens did not OFTEN play the Titans 3 times a year. In fact, this happened only once, in 2000.
The Ravens and Titans did meet in the 2003 playoffs, but they were not in the same division then and did not play at all in the regular season. They met in the 2008 playoffs after having met once in the regular season.
As for both teams INVARIABLY being playoff teams. In their entire 13-year history, the Ravens have made the playoffs 5 times, and only once have they made it two years in a row. (2000, 2001, 2003, 2006 and 2008). Invariably is probably not the word to describe that.
The Oilers moved to Tennessee just one year after Baltimore began play so in 12 years they’ve made the playoffs 6 times. And in the time you’re talking about, a little closer to invariable, making it 4 times in 5 years (1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2007, 2008).
Finally, the notion that the NFL screwed up this great rivalry by moving the divisions around…including the two years that they were the Tennessee Oilers, the Titans and Ravens competed in the same division for a mere 5 seasons, 1997-2001. The current divisional format has been unchanged since it was instituted in 2002 with the creation of the Houston Texans.
By the end of this season, the Titans will have played as many games against the Texans as they have against the Ravens (I didn’t bother to check whether this includes the 3 playoff games…you get the idea).
All of which is to way, the Titans-Ravens rivalry is non-existent. They had one great year when the Titans were 13-3, the Ravens were 12-4, and they met 3 times. That’s pretty much it.
Gul @57 and Paul @59:
You’re literally the first Bronco fans ever to “speak” directly to me and claim that the Raiders are a greater rival. I think, though, maybe it’s just two different kinds of rivalries. Like I said, there’s always seemed (to me, anyway) to be a certain kind of respect between Chiefs fans and Broncos fans. My Bronco fan friends have always said they hate playing the Chiefs more, but you know, I get along with ‘em all just fine.
I guess that brings up the question of which is your team’s greater rivalry: the team you hate to play the most even if you don’t particularly loathe that team as an entity, or the team you love to hate the most because everything about them is vile and disgusting and downright evil.
On the other hand, I only have one friend who’s a Raider fan, and I let her get away with it because she’s cute, and besides, her loyalties are divided between Oakland and Seattle. Still, that might be one more friend than you have that’s a Raider fan.
So I’ll retract the argument that Broncos-Chiefs is “worse” than Broncos-Raiders, but I’d still have to say Chiefs-Raiders is the most vicious. (For starters, I think Raider fans would generally argue that the Chiefs are a more bitter rival, and if the hatred Denver and KC both feel for Oakland were anything close to equal, that would be the clincher.)
@Jon – we hated playing the Chiefs more because we knew we’d lose! Back about 5-10 years ago (maybe more) it always seemed that the Broncos beat the Raiders, the Raiders beat the Chiefs and the Chiefs beat the Broncos.
If you bet those 6 games that way every year back then, you’d make some good money.
The Raiders is a pure hatred of the team. We actually enjoyed playing them, just couldn’t stand the sight of them. I still find it hard to like any ex-Raider coach (Shanny excepted).
Um, Joe – This may come as a shock to you, but any matchup involving a Boston-area team and a New York-titled team is a rivalry. And yes, Patriots-Jets is a real rivalry. I seem to recall them switching coaches at some point in an effort to one-up each other.
Maybe Dan Ackroyd should revive his Leonard Pinth Garnell character, who used to host “Bad Playhouse”, for a one time special edition of “Bad Football”.
Though Garnell would pronounce it “Biyad FHOOTbhall”.
“The Patriots-Colts has become a great and interesting rivalry … but it really has no historical context. And as soon as Peyton Manning goes, as soon as Tom Brady goes, it doesn’t really have much interest left.”
But at the moment you have 2 of the greatest quarterbacks of a generation racking up records, awards, and clashing head-to-head in perhaps the most compelling ongoing matchup in recent memory. Once Manning & Brady retire, wouldn’t that give the rivalry the “historical context” you claim it needs to be considered great?
By Joe’s definition, apparently not. So: you’re discounting the current intensity of the matchups, and you’re discounting recent history. Apparently the only thing that counts is nostalgia going back decades, even if the current manifestation of the “rivalry” involves 2 clubs vying only for recognition as the worst team of the decade, such as Chiefs/Raiders.
Give me Pats/Colts any day.
the AFC North is a giant bowl of sub-rivalry. Three teams connected to Paul Brown and the Steelers. But I don’t see any of the matchups reaching the same intensity of Ohio State/Michigan.
I’ve got to bust your chops a little on the Browns-Steelers rivalry. At least the Pats-Colts recently or Cowboys-49ers has actually been a rivalry on the football field, rather than just something dictated by geography.
To rank as a top rivalry, I think you need to not only have the fan hatred/geography, but also things like upsets and situations where the two franchises have battled out at the same time and been roughly equal.
I doubt there is any “rivalry” that has seen fewer big upsets and times when the teams were equals than the Browns-Steelers. The Browns dominated the 1950’s. The Steelers had some brief good years in the late 50’s and early 60’s, then sucked, while the Browns were again dominant in the 1960’s. There was a brief period of time in the early 70’s when both were about equal, then the Steelers dominated. Then the Browns were good in the mid to late 80’s when the Steelers were down. Since then, all Steelers.
Since the Browns joined the NFL sixty years ago in 1950, there have been only six seasons when both the Browns and Steelers won 60% of their games in the same year: 1958, 1963, 1972, 1976, 1994, and 2007.
In the 15 other seasons the Steelers have won 60% of their games (and the Browns were playing), the Steelers are 25-5 against the Browns (average margin 9.5 points), while winning 72% of their games against the rest of the league. A good (10+ win) Steeler team hasn’t lost to the Browns since 1992.
In the 21 other seasons the Browns won 60% of their games, the Browns are 33-7 against the Steelers, while winning 71% of their games against the rest of their league.
So, in both cases, the rival is less likely to win compared to the rest of the league.
Contrast that with the Packers-Vikings (I happen to think Bears-Packers, but we’ll run with it). During the 1960’s, when the Packers were the team of the decade, the Vikings beat the Packers in Lambeau in 1964. Two years later, the Vikings (who would win only 4 games) won at Lambeau. The Packers won the Super Bowl that year. The very next year, a Viking team that would win 3 games won in Lambeau, over a Packer team that, yes, won the Super Bowl again. Now, that’s what is supposed to happen in rivalries.
Browns-Steelers = most overrated rivalry in terms of what actually happens in the game. At least we have that Kelly Holcomb playoff game to always look back on.
I’m with Keith Law – take back what you said about The Outfield, Your Love. Please.
In fact, just as a test, I think you should do a straight yes or no poll on “Is Your Love by the Outfield a good song?” I think 70% or more say yes.
I was going to howl about “Your Love” but looks like the 70 people in front of me beat me to it.
I humbly submit Falcons-Saints as the seventh rivalry for your list. Just because the teams have been bad for most of their existence doesn’t mean there isn’t hate there.
Jeff @61:
I think I tend to agree. I myself am 26, and while I know in my mind that historically the Packers-Bears is THE rivalry, in my heart I hate losing to the Vikings far more than the Bears. Though, I’m also a White Sox fan who absolutely despises the Twins (and before them the Indians) far more than I do the Cubs (save for when they make the playoffs). Man I hate losing to teams who play in that absurd joke of a stadium up there in that forsaken ice-city of Minneapolis…
If that game is worse than CLE-Buff, I’ll be surprised. Seriously, that game will be on the tvs in Hell over and over….
From the title of the post, I thought you were talking about last night’s game, what a stinker.
Jay Cutler is well on his way to becoming this generation’s Jeff George. Great arm, no head, losing record.
I’d have to disagree with Wooden, I tend to think that Pats-Dolphins is the closest thing to a rivalry the AFC East has. This goes back to the 1980s, when the Pats couldn’t win in the Orange Bowl, and won in Foxboro thanks to things like the Snowplow Game. Then came the run to Super Bowl XX and “Squish the Fish.” No one ever coined a catchy phrase for a Pats-Jets game.
I tend to think that Pats-Jets is like Celts-Knicks or Bruins-Rangers; there’s animosity there due to the whole Boston-New York thing, but there are other teams that, historically, are truer rivals (Lakers and Canadiens, respectively).
I second the call for a poll on “Your Love.” Also, have I missed it, or has there been no talk about Snuggies for Dogs:
https://www.snuggiefordogs.com/flare/next
Too bad your iPod shuffle from hell didn’t get rickrolled. Or would that have made it worse?
What about another kind of awful game: the one in which a team with talent decides not to play. For example, last year’s abomination between the Patriots and the Cardinals in the snow, Pats 47, Cards 7. It was 38-0 at the half, and the Pats spent the entire second half avoiding the end zone. There was a perverse satisfaction to it, but the paying customers were cheated.
@ 34, 45 & 56
I think the Cowboys are hated the most by all three remaining teams in the NFC East.
I’d be interested in hearing from Cowboys fans to see who that fanbase hates the most.
I have been a fan of two NFL teams in my lifetime, the Saints and the Dolphins. I have never felt that the Dolphins had one rival who stood above all others. If I had to pick one, it would be Buffalo because of the extreme climate differences and the Kelly-Marino rivalry, but that faded after the QBs retired and the teams sank in the standings. I don’t think anything in the AFC East deserves to be an official rivalry. By contrast, Saints-Falcons has been bitter since the teams were born. The rivalry on the field has that Army-Navy quality (it doesn’t matter how bad the season has been as long as we can win this game, and for the Saints and Falcons, you’re talking about an amazing number of awful seasons whose sole saving grace was the pair of rivalry games), amplified by the parallels in the franchises’ sorry histories, countless last-second Hail Mary-type wins, a memorable playoff clash in 1991 and key players who have crossed from one team to the other. All of it echoes the cities’ rivalry, which has no other athletic outlet unless you count the NBA, which neither city cares about. Please, substitute Saints-Falcons for Dolphins-Jets.
Another Eagles fan, and I’ll agree with my colleagues. Eagles-Cowgirls is a bigger rivalry. Ask this question to an Eagles fan: If the Eagles were going to go 2-14, which two games would you want to win?” And I’d wager* that a grand majority would say, “Both Dallas games.” Heck, both my kids have been chanting, “Dallas stinks!” since they were 2. My daughter, 8 1/2 now and the sports nut of my two kids, instinctively knows that we want to root for the stinkin’ cowgirls to lose every week, no matter who they’re playing. Even if it means we have to root for the Giants or Redskins to win that particular week.
* Isn’t there a Joe Word for this? I don’t see it in the glossary and my memory is too frail to come up with it on my own.
Hey Eagles fans–
Everyone hates Dallas! I lived in Santa Fe for several years, and worked in a fancy restaurant. People would come in and drawl they were from the “Big D” and I’d reply, “Oh, down from Denver are you?” Dallas people were arrogant, cheap, and ignorant and proud of all three. We had a bumper sticker in SF that said, “If God had wanted Texans to ski He would have given them mountains.” I heard a Big D fella laugh at that and say, “He did; He gave us New Mexico.” So I hate the Cowboys, the Rangers, the Stars, whatever their soccer team is called, and any teams in any sports not yet invented.
And #15 and #30–great posts! Thanks for the laughs!
We Built This City is obviously execrable, an indisputable fact that is somehow still a point of contention between my wife (who likes the song) and I. I’d be willing to wager that Joe was tuned into the rest of the songs after being shocked/irritated by that piece of drek. That probably coloured his view of the subsequent songs on Joe’s iPod playlist from hell.
Run To You is trite as hell, but it’s actually from the days when Bryan Adams was actually considered a rock musician and not an adult contemporary drivel-meister who does…well…this: http://www.moto-media-works.de/journalist/BryanAdams.jpg
I fully believe Bryan Adams circa 1984 would want to kick the ass of Bryan Adams circa anything-after-the-1980s.
Run To You is certainly a far cry from what I consider his artistic nadir, that song he did with Sting and Rod Stewart. It’s possible he’s done worse since, but I haven’t listened to a thing he’s done since that one came out. What a tragic low point for the former frontman of the Police.
Cripes, I’ve just spent way longer than I ever expected defending a song I don’t even like. Anyway, moving on…
Your Love is a quintessential 80s ballad, which isn’t a point in its favour but can still serve as a brainless singalong song. If I’m up at the cottage and that comes on, I’m not gonna be annoyed by it.
Duran Duran also gets retro-points. The band is cheesy enough that I can’t hate at least some of their stuff.
I would never actually DECIDE to listen to the songs listed, but I think some of them, at least, could be defended as guilty pleasures (mostly due to nostalgic or ironic-love-of-cheesy-things reasons.)
I hear worse six-song stretches every time I happen to spend much time at my parents’ place. They keep the dial tuned to a terrible easy listening station that offers up tons of Rick Astley, Celine Dion, Sting, Michael Bolton and similar “artists.”
As a Packer fan who grew up in Chicago, I always thought the Bears were the biggest rival. Of course, I moved away around the time Ditka got fired.
Agreed, ever since I started watching the Vikings as a kid, I was taught to hate the Packers. Everyone else was only supposed to be disliked.
I’m trying to get ‘fanbole’ entered at wordnik.com, which is the greatest resource for words ever.
I favor using ‘fanbole’ to apply to more than just sports fans. Music fans, oenophiles, and geeks of all persuasions are just as capable of fanbole.
I know I hate the Cowboys…probably MORE than I like the Eagles…no matter how many (or few) wins the Eagles have in any given year, if the Cowboys do worse; then it’s a GOOD year, regardless what the Giants or Redskins do
So is this a rivalry, since I am an Eagle fan…or is this more like the folks who root for whoever the Yankees are playing???
As a self-admitted geezer, I have to second the view that the Packer-(Bear or Viking) decision is generational. People who remember Lombardi and Halas on the sidelines in Wrigley Field or the “frozen tundra” of Lambeau will say Bears-Packers every time. Choosing between Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke generates a lot more intensity than Green Favre v. Purple Favre.
Oh, and as a geezer, I knew only one of those songs you listed, so I guess that’s good for me.
I think the Ravens-Steelers rivalry is fairly intact from the old Modell Browns days.
The poor mess that they call a pro football team currently in Cleveland might not deserve a rivalry, at least at present…
Bengals-Steelers is not much of a rivalry in my mind. Maybe the Bengals think so but for the Steelers it’s just another divisional opponent.
AAARGGGGH. Now I have “your love” by the outfield stuck in my head. earworm! iPod playlist in hell, indeed. Um, thanks, Joe.
As a long-time Steeler fan, it is safe to declare the rivalry with the Browns D-E-A-D. Our big rivalry has been with Baltimore. If you don’t believe me, just ask any one who has played for either team in the last dozen or so years.
I’m going to take issue with the Chiefs-Raiders being a bigger rivalry than the Broncos-Raiders. As Broncos fans we hate the Raiders more than any other team, and it’s not even close. We strongly dislike the Chiefs, and we actually didn’t really mind the Chargers until Philip Rivers was there. Our attitude towards the Chargers was more or less that if the Broncos didn’t win the division hopefully the Chargers could because that meant it wasn’t the Raiders or the Chiefs. (And we weren’t really sure the Seahawks existed, even when they were in our division.) I know a lot of Raiders fans and I don’t know a single one who has stronger feelings of hate towards the Chiefs over the Broncos. Every single one I know hates the Broncos most of all.
I would like to hear from Raiders fans LIVING IN OAKLAND and see who they say they hate the most. I am willing to accept the premise that if you are living in the territory of a rival you grow to hate them most (i.e. Raiders fans living in Denver hate the Broncos the most, but Raiders fans living in KC hate the Chiefs the most).
But what recent history do the Raiders and Chiefs really have as rivals? The last 30+ years of the AFC West the rivalry between the Broncos and Raiders has been a lot more intense.
Giants fans hate Dallas more than we hate Philly.
Another point in favor of the Vikings/Packers rivalry — I believe that in the all time series, the Packers are up — by a single game.
Of course, the Vikings are undefeated against the Packers in the postseason, so that’s nice.
Okay, I’ve been wasting my early afternoon surfing Raider blogs for the answer to this critical and burning question.
After digging around and reading a couple dozen different threads which discuss the question “Who do you hate more, Broncos or Chiefs?” and noting both general answers and, more specifically, answers from people claiming to be in the Bay Area, I can now announce my findings:
Umm… really, I think it’s a tie. The opinion goes both ways, and in almost all cases it’s phrased somewhat like “God, I hate them both to pieces, but I hate (one or the other) just a little bit more.” Fans I noted as being both “older” and “younger” hate the Chiefs more, while fans in the middle seem to hate Denver more.
That makes sense, of course, because pre-1977 it was all Raiders-Chiefs without question, and Raiders fans really weren’t too thrilled with the Chiefs pretty much clowning them in the late 90s/early 00s. But the fans who earned their pirate gear in the late 70s-early 90s zone seem to focus their hate more on the Broncos, and that of course is perfectly sensible.
As a relatively young Packers fan (23), I can say that people around my age absolutely hate the Vikings more than the Bears. It’s not even close. Someone made a comment about geography- Milwaukee Packers fans hate the Bears more. But I don’t think that’s true. I’m from Milwaukee, and I hate the Vikings way more.
As noted by Joe and others, this hatred has nothing to do with Brett. Icing on the cake, really.
Joe – You forgot to list the song they played after A View To A Kill. #7 Glory Days – Bruce Springsteen
As a Packer fan i’ve always hated the Vikings just a little bit more than the Bears. My mom is from Green Bay and my dad is from western wisconsin and it’s safe to say that almost all of my family hate the Vikings a little bit more than the Bears (moreso now). They wear purple for crying out loud. We at least respect the Bears.
Side Note: A View to a Kill is a damn fine song.
From what I hear, Bears/49ers was an awful game.
Off-topic, but this is really cool and funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14&feature=player_embedded
Doc Ellis’ no-hitter from 1970 in his own words. Apparently he was on LSD.
Saying the Colts-Patriots rivalry doesn’t count is like saying Koufax isn’t a HOFer because he only had 5 good years.
They’re still probably the best two quarterbacks in the game, on the best two teams, and have been for 6 years now. It was awesome to watch the Giant’s D-line, and awesome to watch Polamaulu do his thing. But whether the game is outside on a cold November night, or indoors in Indy, there’s exciting things to watch for out of each team.
East-Coast-Bias aside, is there any game that football fans would rather watch than Patriots-Colts? History is great, but with the exception of Vikings-Packers this year, I don’t think there’s any “rivalry” that neutral fans wouldn’t ditch in a heartbeat to watch Pats-Colts. Those rivalries are Pete Rose. Patriots-Colts are Koufax.
Re Mike in Philly’s comment at No. 35, as a Cowboys fan, have to say he’s right — the NFC East battle lines have shifted. Oh, I hate the Skins, but given recent history, it’s purely residual. But my hatred for the Eagles (the site of Andy Reid’s pear-shaped frame on the sideline raises my blood pressure five points) and Giants is virtually unlimited.
“(Bleep) the living (bleeping) (bleepity) (bleep) out of (bleeping) Art (Bleeping) Modell.”
I don’t think its possible for me to agree with a sentence more than I agree with this one.
Also, is there a more one-sided fan rivalry than Browns-Ravens? Browns fans absolutely despise the Ravens, while the Ravens fans couldn’t care less about the Browns.
I concur on the “philly/dallas” vs “philly/NY” argument. eagles/giants pales as a rivalry to eagles/cowboys. I think only people of a certain age really trumpet the giants rivalry.
I saw a list of the top rivalries in the NFL and they included most of the ones Joe listed, but instead of Eagles-Giants and Redskins-Boys, they just included “NFC East Rivalries.”
It is unlike any other division in sports in that all of the teams are generally competitive with all four fanbases are among the most rapid in the country.
Each fanbase hates each other, and all 3 universally hate the Cowboys, as they are the most loathsome franchise in sports.
Jerry and Jerryworld to the showboating teams of the 90’s and the incessant media hype, TO and, most importantly, the largest bandwagon contingent of fans west of Manchester United… it all just makes you sick.
I’ve actually lived in D.C., Philly, NY, and Boston at different times in my life. I can attest to the general theme of this blog. D.C., Philly and New York HATE the Cowboys, which are the second most loathsome franchise in sports (aside from the Yankees).
However, I would say that no matter how strong these rivalries are (and they are very strong), the Skins fans hate Dallas far more than anyone I ever met in Philly or NY. (this could be because there are no other decent teams in Washington) Don’t get me wrong. Every city despises Dallas, but Skins fans really take it too far. I’m not even joking. That is not to say how Dallas feels about the matter. I’ve never been there, and the only Dallas fans I know are 20 somethings who grew up in the early 90s, and know nothing about football, fandom, or life in general.
As for Pats/Colts, I agree with Joe. The rivalry is strong, and the teams are extremely good, but New England fans are not particularly passionate about football. In New England, fans root for sports teams in the following order
1.Red Sox
2. Celtics
3. David Ortiz
4. Larry Bird
5. Pedro
6. Mixed feelings about Manny
7. 2004!!!!!!
8. Any individual who was in New England at any time during the year 2004
9. Anyone who is playing the yankees
10. Patriots
In my opinion the rivalry falls short because New Englanders are not passionate enough about football. Obviously there are some fans who are, and they hate Peyton Manning et al, but there simply is not enough passion left over from the the Sox and Celtics. The truest rivalries come in cities that are built around football.
After Raiders/Chiefs and Chargers/Raiders, what are the other rivalries from the original AFL?
Pats/Jets really developed after BB said he was no longer HC of the NYJ.
Then the J-E-T-S hired Mangenius away from BB, only to screw him over with Favre.
Opening the door to SexyRexy calling the season ticket holders to have them make sure they come to the pep rally for the Super Bowl the 2nd week of the season.
I live in the Bay Area, and I think that the Chiefs are the biggest rivals that the Raiders have. Don’t get me wrong, as a Raiders fan, I hate the Broncos. Mike Shanahan has a lot to do with that. But Raiders-Chiefs is still a bigger rivalry to me, especially considering the history behind it. I mean, you would be hard pressed to find to more influential owners that Lamar Hunt and Al Davis.
And OF COURSE Broncos fans hate the Raiders more than they hate the Chiefs. Everybody hates the Raiders more than they hate the Chiefs. A while ago, the NFL Network did a “Top Ten Rivalries” show, and do you know what the #1 rivalry was?
Nope, not Chiefs-Raiders. It was the Raiders vs. the ENTIRE NFL. Everybody hates us. Everybody hates Al Davis. We may suck right now, but when the Raiders are good, we’re really good and we let everybody know it.
Also, I’d just like to say that Norv Turner is the worst coach of all time. When the Raiders had Randy Moss, he wanted to run the ball. Now, as coach of the Chargers, he took over a Super contender and turned them into a mediocre team that always plays way under their potential. How does this man still have a job? How does he keep getting jobs? This baffles me.
All I know is, in my area of CT, nobody really cares about the Eagles, but the Dallas and Giants fans are at each others throats. Giants/Cowboys and it’s not even close, but I know I only speak for my area, maybe it’s Giants/Eagles elsewhere.
And for shame, I love “Your Love”.
#85: Tell us how you really feel. I actually like living in Big D, though I find it impossible to root for the Cowboys, as they are a reprehensible franchise with an evil owner who charges ridiculous prices to go to the game. Parking is $80. PARKING. The greatest joy of living in Dallas is goading Cowboy fans about the inevitable playoff failure.
I can weigh in on two rivalries, as someone who grew up in Baltimore and now lives in Dallas. As you can tell, I’m not a Cowboy fan, but I live amongst them. And they hate the Eagles more than anyone. The Redskins thing is also gloriously one-sided, as I know how much Skins fans hate the Cowboys, yet the Cowboy fans could care less. Congrats, Philly.
I tepidly root for the Ravens because I still feel a bit guilty about it. I mean, two wrongs don’t make a right. I still hate the Colts and hope they lose every damn game. So I understand you, Browns fans. So I can’t really speak for all Ravens fans, but we hate the Steelers. Hines Ward being the dirtiest player to ever play in the NFL sorta helps the rivalry.
This is why college better. There’s not one pro rivalry even half as good as LSU-Auburn, and that’s not even considered a top tier college rivalry. But I was at Auburn when their campus caught fire, and I, along with many others of the tiger faithful, turned around and cheered. That should be a basic standard: would I cheer if their stadium caught on fire?
#113: Um, okay, maybe in the ’70s, but today, you’re delusional. The Raiders are one of my FAVORITE teams now. They are utterly HILARIOUS. It would be like hating Jim Ignatowski, Daffy Duck, Dr. Doofenschmirtz, or Chance the Gardener. Crazy, dysfunctional, and ultimately harmless.
There’s high comedy, there’s low comedy, and there’s the Oakland Raiders. A class by itself.
I agree with Joe. Satan sings “Your love” in the shower.
I have to agree with post #111. The Skins-Cowboys rivalry is the most intense I’ve experienced in pro sports. The rivalry is more than one set of fans rooting against another’s team. It’s a whole region, a whole culture, pitted against another.
Visit D.C. the week prior to the Dallas game at R.F.K. (o0ps, Landover, MD), particularly at some point in the future when the Skins get a new owner, and, therefore, a better team. You’ll see.
Usually love your stuff , but damn are you in a slump. Colts-Pats is the best rivalry in sports now that sox-yanks has lost it’s luster. Steelers-Browns? Give me a f@#$%ng break!
It is official-Barak Obama is a moron. The Celtics are bigger than the Pats in Boston ?When was the period you lived in Boston-1981-86. Dolt.
I thought for sure this was going to be about the Bears @ 49ers game.
Also, Bears vs GB trumps GB Vikings, even with the Favre drama.
[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Worst Football Game Ever (joeposnanski.com) – November 12, 2009*To be honest, the Browns-Steelers rivalry has probably burned out too with the Browns leaving town** and then coming back and being screwed up and so on. But Cleveland and Pittsburgh as such natural… [...]
@mood:
As a Boston resident, but not native: Boston fans generally only give full support to teams when they are winning (look at the attendances for the Pats in the 90s and the Celts 5-10 years ago).
That being said, if the sports calendar was turned backwards and each of them were in important playoff games, people would care more about the Celtics.
I guess now I have to deflate Cowboys-Redskins. I’ve lived in both cities, and conversed with many fans of both teams (usually to tell them they suck, but you know how it is), and listened to oodles and gobs of sports talk radio in both cities, and been a subscriber to both the DMN and the Post. I dislike both teams with some fervor, and can speak impartially to the question of the balance of their rivalry based on my interactions with their fans.
Redskins fans loathe the Cowboys with a fiery passion generally reserved for one’s meddling and hypercritical mother-in-law. Genuine hatred. For all I know, part of this hatred may stem from the fact that the Cowboys blithely disrespect them by not hating them enough:
See, Cowboys fans… dislike the Redskins. They hate the Eagles and Giants more, and being completely frank about it, they probably hate the 49ers more. In fact, the Redskins are more like an annoying younger cousin.
Cowboys-Eagles is the NFC East rivalry. One might ask why the Cowboys fans would despise Philadelphia more when over the balance of the divisional rivalry Philadelphia has been less competitive than Washington or New York. Well, 20 years ago it may not have been the case; the Redskins may indeed have been the primary rival then. But the moment Michael Irvin went down with an injury at the Vet and Philly fans cheered… it all changed. If you didn’t live in Dallas when that occurred, you can’t even begin to imagine the level of hatred that immediately boiled over, and hasn’t stopped since.
Raiders’ fans help them take the hate cake by a mile.
1) Consider how many Raiders fans outside California become Raiders fans because of those colors. I seriously doubt many Broncos fans outside Colorado thought “Wow, wearing orange and blue all the time will make people think I’m a bad@ss!”
2) Raiders fans simply act like thugs. I recall attending the last regular season game of the 2003 season and noticing two loud and obnoxious Raiders fans seated behind me. I initially thought this strange because the Chiefs were playing the Bears, but then learned that these two Raider fans had season tickets and came to every game to root against the Chiefs
Anyway, when one of them was taking great pleasure in Priest Holmes’ (momentarily) being stopped short of the single-season rushing TD record, I asked him what Oakland’s record was.
I was merely going for a little bit of clever banter, but he killed it immediately with his witty rejoinder “You better turn around and shut up before I put my fist through your four eyes.”
Violence is Raiderfan’s first instinct. So classy.
Mood@ 120
I live in Boston now. Where do you live?
Jet Fan here. The Dolphins are THE biggest rival for Jets fans.
I think part of this springs from the weird fact that even when only one of the teams is good, they always seem to give each other good games.
Plus, some classic games, including the Monday Night Miracle and the 51-45 OT game back in ‘86.
Finally, for a while in the late 80s and early 90s (when the Jets weren’t good), Marino would put up insanely gaudy stats . . . and the Jets would still win. I remember a game in ‘88 when he threw for 521 yards, but threw a bunch of picks, including a game-winning pick-six by Erik McMillan.
Trust me, Jets-Dolphins is a huge rivalry.
I think many so-called rivalries only become so when the teams become competitive with one another. Right now I agree that the Colts/Pats “rivalry” is one of the best in sports. I live in the Boston area and I know that Pats fans dislike (not despise) Peyton Manning. They are jealous of any comparison of Manning & Brady. They wanted Brady to get the TD record very badly to overshadow Manning. Whenever people talk about Manning New Englanders will be quick to point to Brady’s 3 SB rings as proof that he’s a superior QB. The point is, this rivalry has only been a rivalry since NE & Indy started vying to be the AFC SB representative, about 8 or 9 years ago. This rivalry is about 2 QB’s. There’s no ‘hate’ in this rivalry. There’s only recent familiarity. And while right now, the Pats are a hot ticket, they still don’t compare to the Red Sox. Up until Feb 2002, the Pat’s were simply a weekend diversion between the months of November thru January. Even after 3 SB ring, the Red Sox reign.
Now on the other hand, as a Chiefs fan, I was born and raised a Raider Hater. Both parents despised the Raiders as a classless, no-account organization. Players, like Ben Davidson & Gene Upshaw, were burned in effigy. A team & fan base had to be pretty bad to make normally mild-mannered midwesterners forget their manners. Raiders vs Chiefs succeeded. The criteria for a rivalry was there. Both teams at their inception were pretty good and vying for the championship. Both fan bases hated the other for their perceived crass & unsophisticated behavior. Both teams’ players, hated each other (& still do to this day). Both owners hated each other. The rivalry became ingrained. Time tested no matter which team was up & which one was down. The Chiefs were mostly inconsequential about the same time the Raiders (gasp) were winning playoff games and SB’s throughout the 70’s to the mid 80’s. Yet the the hatred never waned. And most of all. Familiarity breeds hate. Playing each other twice, sometimes 3 times a year has to be factored into any real rivalry. Over the years I had hatred for the Broncos & begrudging respect. The fact is that at the inception of the league, the Chargers had some fleeting success but by the time the Chiefs got to KC in ‘63, the Chargers were on their way down. The Broncos were inconsequential in the 60’s & most of the 70’s. There were really only 2 teams in the West that were vying for the AFL/AFCW Championship. Chiefs & Raiders. It started there and remained. I never respected the Raiders. I always expected the Chiefs to beat the Raiders, even when the talent on the field was in the Raiders’ favor. The Chiefs were the good guys & the Raiders were/are the bad guys.
That’s just the way it is.
During tthe 3.5 years I lived in San Diego, the annual “Raider game weekend” would leave a trail of bodies in its wake. Actual.m Murders. Occurred. There exist grown men, still alive today, that rob and pillage like Reivers in the Scottish lowlands.
Some British person should travel the I-5 with these ruffians and write a book. An “Among the Thugs” for the blokes in Brighton.
You are wrong. Packers fans despise the Bears much more than they despise the Vikings. Just like the Jets’ rival is the Patriots, not the Dolphins.
The Bears and Packers were bitter rivals before the Vikings existed. They remained so through Hutson and Lambeau vs. Nagurski and Halas. They remained so through Sayers and Butkus vs. the greatest teams of all time, the Pack of so many HOF’ers it wouldn’t be right to name jsut a couple of them. They remained so through Don Majkowski and Charles Martin feloniously assaulting McMahon and Sweetness. They remain so today. NO one in Chicago has any doubt who their biggest rival is, and despite number 4, neither do the true Packer fans.
Name me comparable confrontations with the Pack and Vikes. When the Pack was great, the Vikes didn’t exist. When the Vikes got good, the Pack sucked. Favre vs. Randy Moss? Please.
BOOOOOOO…….. on this one, you’re not just wrong, you’re ridiculously wrong.
The ONLY thing that makes the Vikes-Pack rivalry comparable is number 4. So you’re signing on to Favre-mania.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I’m ashamed for you.
Time to do a mea culpa on this one… it’s just not right, it’s just not you.
BOOOOOOOOO………………..
Nice of you to put your head into your ass just long enough to say that JETS-DOLPHINS is the big rivalry of the AFC East.
Don’t make me laugh. Bills-Phins has and always will be the bigger rivalry there. Nobody gives a rats ass about the JEST.
The Browns and Steelers will always be at least a decent rivalry as long as they play twice per year, but given that the Browns are 3-19 (maybe) since 1999 and 24-50 since 1970 against the Steelers, while historically it’s a rivalry, recently it’s only a theoretical one of nostalgia.
Pittsburgh has clearly been the better team, but in terms of style of play, competitiveness, winning, geography, big names, cache, mutual respect and animosity the rivalry between the Steelers and Ravens is all that you’d ask for. I’m not saying it’s the best, but in today’s NFL it has to be top 5.
It’d be nice for me to say my favorite team, the Ravens, have one of the best rivalries in the league with the Steelers, but there’s not enough history. Although, barring the Steelers going on a run agains the Ravens, these two have played a litany of great games since 1999 and battle for the division almost annually with the Steelers being good almost every year and the Ravens being an every-other-year team. After last year’s Steelers sweep and Pittsburgh’s 18-10 record against the Ravens, you could consider this not much of a rivlary, but since 1999 the Steelers have the edge 13-9, and each team has combined for a total of 5 losing seasons out of 20, and 3 Super Bowls. Again, Pittsburgh has clearly been the better team, but in terms of style of play, competitiveness, winning, geography, big names, mutual respect and animosity the rivalry between the Steelers and Ravens is all that you’d ask for.
It’s a shame CBS is sending the excitable Gus Johnson to call this game on Sunday. Not only is it naive to think even he can wring some excitement out of this game; the only people who will be watching will be the Kansas City viewing area and some masochistic gamblers who put money on this game.
I don’t know much about the NFC South rivalries but even though they are “modern rivalries” they seem good. NO/ATL and CAR/TB.
Anyone a fan of one of those teams that can tell us about those rivalries?
Growing up a Packers fan, the Bears were the team to hate.
I mean, I hate the Vikings, too, but I can root for Favre with Minnesota a lot more easily than I could were he a Bear.
I knew “Your Love” but couldn’t place it. I looked it up and was reminded that it had been permanently blocked from my brain. Now, I admit I’m a music snob and personally believe every song ever written totally sucks and is just on a relative scale of sucking. I have just ranked “Your Love” in the bottom third of suck but far from the apex of suck, Aerosmith’s, “I don’t want to miss a thaaaannnng” which is far and away the THE WORST SONG OF ALL TIME, created in a perfect storm of suck by the gods of audio torture. It was meant for Celine Dion, performed by washed up, ball-less has-beens for a Michael Bay travesty…the stars were certainly aligned for that.
Chiefs-Raiders halftime update:
The teams are both 0-9 on third down conversions.
I understand your logic …..though I profoundly disagree with your conclusion.
The Bears/Packers had been the number one rivalry in the NFL for 30 years when the AFL was founded ….the same year the Vikings entered the NFL….1960.
Tradition, longevity, and passion are the bedrock for rivalries……none in American professional sport is on the same level as Packers/Bears.
The short term bitterness created by the Favre situation heightens current interest and rivalry awareness ….but it in no way moves Vikes/Pack ahead of Bears/Packers.
Worst football game ever? not so much.. comedy of errors? definitly. that PigSkin was well greased in this match up- that ball slid out of so many hands this afternoon… the thing the Chiefs did manage to do was save victory- but barely (i am a chiefs fan so of course i was cheering for them), but that was too close to call at the end. Good thing the raiders traded up for that rookie!
If NBC had any guts, they would have moved Lions-Browns to prime time next Sunday. It can’t do any worse than Leno has.
Great call, Joe. The game lived down to expectations. As a Chiefs fan, there were three good things: 1. The Chiefs won. 2. Nobody died. 3. Jamaal Charles is much better running behind a horrific offensive line that Larry-what’s-his-name. Otherwise…one monumental stinkburger of a game.
I remember in the 70’s how beating the Raiders team could make our season, too bad we are back to that, but it’s still sweet to beat the Raiders!
There was only one team in the league that the Chiefs could have beaten yesterday and it just so happened to be the one they were playing.
The raiders are AWFUL. Pitiful. So very…raideresque.
It’s good to see some order restored.
So I’m looking at MDW and I see the pic of Modell with the Lombardi Trophy and I utter the words “that bastard” to myself. Without any conscious thought.
I grew up, and will always be, a BALTIMORE Colts fan. I hope Modell burns in Hell next to Irsay. And I’m thinking I’m getting my wish…
[...] Continued here: Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » The Worst Football Game Ever [...]
[...] Oakland quarterback JaMarcus Russell is like an episode of The Simpsons every time he goes out there. The Chiefs’ Mike Brown has missed so many tackles that Pro Bowl running backs this year are expected to buy HIM watches. So here you have this great rivalry …. South of Green Bay, I’m pretty sure it’s Chicago. West of Green Bay, it’s probably Minnesota. It was the late 90s when I lived there (got there just in time for the Packer SB win), so things might have changed. …Page 2 [...]
Good point about the Sub-Rivalries, I have thought about this often when it comes to the Eagles, but for the NFC East, you have to make Sub-Rivalries. I know for a fact Eagles fans hate Dallas more than any team. No doubt, but yes Giants and Redskins are also 2 and 3 probably respectively. I think the Giants hate Dallas the most, and yet the Redskins probably do also. Either way, everyone in the division hates everyone, and those rivalries are probably bigger than every rivalry in the NFL, or damn close.
Look, I grew up in KC & never liked the Raiders, either. But christalmighty, I freaking HATED the Broncos. I hated that cheating juicer Bill Romanowski. I hated Elway. I hated Mike Shanahan & his bug eyes & stubbornly fake-tanned face. Go ahead moron – kick it to Dante Hall again – I double-dog dare you!!!