Jim Rice on Zack
Posted: September 24th, 2009 | Filed under: Baseball | 116 Comments »
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. And especially Hall of Famer Jim Rice.
OK, so what do I do? Write a scathing 20,000-word furious response … or just let it go?
Joe Posnanski
A Rough Draft Blog
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I vote for furious response.
Let it go…
He doesn’t know what he’s talking about most of the time (and I’m a Red Sox fan and I’ve listened to his analysis before on NESN).
Go get him!
Jim Rice is an idiot. He should not have gotten into the Hall of Fame before Blyleven. That alone lends him to ridicule and furious responses.
Let him have it!!
Please rip Rice a new one….
He’s like Joe Morgan. Nothing you do will talk him out of his stupidity and the furious response will only get him more attention and harden his ideas in his head. Let it go.
Looks like you’ve Slashdotted the Sullivan Tire web site
“He pitched well…”
what 2 hits over 6 innings to your Alma Mater wasn’t good enough?!
What’s 23 gotta do?
nail him JP
furious response. or at least well reasoned rebuttal . . .
20,000 words. But that might be a selfish response. I just want another post to read.
I think you crashed his site. Woe be to those that cross the Posnanski Army.
I vote for scathing rebuttal…Rice is unbelieveable!
scathing 20,000-word furious response would certainly be more entertaining for us, so that’s my vote…
What, you haven’t beaten up on Rice enough already?
Let it go. Really.
More stories about the 1970s Cavs, please.
I feel like that post makes fun of itself. He’s the first writer to do a FJM post all by himself. It’s just a bummer that I’m sure several CY voters read and listen to him.
He is a moron and thus it should be let go.
However, because he decided to compare the great Greinke to Roger Moret and 1.2 K/BB ratio, he deserves to be completely humiliated.
Unfortunately, as one Brilliant Reader pointed out, he is very much like Joe Morgan and is a total idiot who cannot be swayed to think with his brain. Remember, Rice is the guy who said, “I’m not paid to get on base.”
As much as I would love a 20,000 worder tearing him to shreds, I’m with Paul on this one – he is just like Joe Morgan: he won’t be swayed even if you use very simple words and logic that a 5-yo could understand, and all you’ll end up doing is getting his drivel more attention.
Furious response
What game was he watching??
Not an unhittable beast? Sporadic command?
Jim Rice is, quite simply, an idiot.
I’m with Ian @ #11, I just want another post to read….
Zack Greinke is the most feared pitcher of the year. That’s hall of fame credentials right there, not merely Cy Young. I’d think Rice of all people would understand.
I think the site is crashed. It won’t load for me either.
If you are hinting at something bad from Rice that probably means he deserves to be ripped.
September 23rd, 2009
Zack Greinke didn’t really impress me last night. He pitched well and maybe I caught him on a bad night, but to me he didn’t seem dominant. Greinke has may have the lowest ERA in the AL since Pedro Martinez in 2000, but he doesn’t strike me as the dominant force that Pedro was during his statistical peak. Don’t get me wrong, Greinke pitched very effectively but he was not the unhittable beast on the mound that Pedro or Clemens (or even Johan Santana) were during their reign of dominance.
He only gave up two hits in 6 innings but struggled with his command and, with 5 strikeouts, it’s not like he was punching tickets up and down the Red Sox lineup.
He reminds me of a right-handed Roger Moret. He has that long and lean frame but good speed on his fastball and sporadic command.
-Jim Rice
I vote for a furious response, and commend you for crashing the sullivantire site. I hate those commercials.
Look, I’m a Red Sox fan. I have to endure Rice’s ‘analysis’ on post-game shows throughout the year. There’s no response in the world scathing enough to pay him back for the sheer amount of stupid that’s come out of his mouth. FJM should have had an FJR counterpart, because he’s just as bad.
I don’t know why, but for some reason, I felt a little sad for him. I think maybe it’s because I don’t understand why anyone would even make a post like that. You don’t think a guy who just threw 6 shutout innings didn’t look as dominant as a guy who had the most incredible season in baseball history? And you feel inclined to point that out?
“You know, Jim Rice had a pretty good year in 1978, but he only had a .370 OBP and couldn’t get the Sox past the Yankees in the playoff, going 1-for-5, but maybe he just had an off day. He certainly wasn’t as good as Ted Williams. I guess he reminds me of Joe Carter–nice power, okay outfielder. Of course, Joe won a World Series, so that’s a strike against Jim.”
I don’t think you ever tore him a new one for his self-righteous speech to the little leaguers – you know, the “we were great; these guys aren’t” speech – so I say release the hounds.
So he’s pretty much trying to put Greinke next to Pedro. Okay, right Jim. Pedro’s on another planet. But Greinke has been plenty dominant. And he toyed with that Sox lineup as far as I saw.
Jim Rice on Zack Greinke: He didn’t really impress me last night.
Clark Griswold on Christie Brinkley: She’s ugly.
Let it go. Rice is the best LF of the past 40 years.
On my command, unleash hell.
I’m curious…what did Rice say ? Is there a site with his comments on there ?
Go get him Joe. He was a great, great player…doesn’t mean he can’t spew inane babble.
Light his overrated, 315 to to the Left Field foul pole ass up Joe.
I saw Jim Rice play, and lemme tell ya… he was the most feared idiot of his era.
You, being busy with the book tour and all, shouldn’t do anything.
I say we just keep crashing his website.
i vote for a reply, but not a 20,000 word reply. i want see if you’re capable of quality snark, which can be brief, because that’s all this deserves (roger moret, lol). it deserves a response, because no matter the messenger, our boy is being maligned. it’s our duty to stick up for those who can’t stick up for themselves. just give him a couple rabbit punches for having the temerity.
He compares him to Roger Moret? His best ERA+ was 128 and his best K/9 was 5.8.
Greinke has a 210 ERA+ , 9.5 K/9, and is closing in on twice as many career strikeouts as Moret, and he is only 25.
It’s nonsense.
As much as I love Joe’s posts of well-reasoned indignation, I think it’s best to let this one go. Rice is obviously a moron, and to spend 20,000 words eviscerating him won’t do anything to help Zack, the book, or Joe in general. Sometimes the wiser, bigger move is to walk away and let the big, bad moron prove he’s a fool all on his own. Plus, nobody outside of the most ardent and clueless of Red Sox fans actually listen to his opinion, do they?
Joe, full disclosure, I grew up in Boston and Jim Ed was my bothood hero, but he’s a slugger not a thinker. His comments are not worth your time. Write a happy Snuggie post instead. Let it go, Joe. Let it go.
I guess we’ll never see another Cy Young winner since the new requirement is to be as good or better then 1999 Pedro.
Son of a… the offending website is overwrought and can’t be accessed. I want to be incensed, too!
Ahhh. Thanks to Buc_d, I have my rage. Apparently Jim Ed is still selling baloney. (He used to pitch baloney, right?)
Let it go. Whether a pitcher was “dominant” or not in Jim Rice terms was whether Ricey was playing at home or not. At home, Rice was Babe Ruth; on the road, he was Emil Brown. At Fenway, Rice might have hit Zack; and the K, he’d have been Zack’s bitch.
Do you really need 20,000 words to call Jim Rice an idiot?
Sure, Rice is a fool for comparing ZG to Moret, but do you disagree with his statement that ZG is no Pedro/Roger/Johan? I don’t see a problem with that line of thinking.
Comment readers: the text of Rice’s full post is reproduced in comment #23, so there’s no need to go to Rice’s site.
Personally, I was really caught by surprise by what Rice said. I was expecting the standard, “He’s clearly not a Cy Young if he could only win 15 games,” line, not, “I can conclude from one two-hit shutout that he’s not very impressive.” Wow. I mean, wow.
Joe, this selfish reader asks for you to gut him like a fish (for this and his asinine Little League comment too, if you can manage it in your busy schedule). I don’t think you’ll need 20k words to to it, though.
I think you DID crash the website. Maybe that is just the internet gods smiting Sullivan Tire for participating in such blasphemy.
(Sigh)
It’s up to you, Joe, on whether or not you think it’s worth the trouble. Parts of Rice’s post are technically correct, as you’ve pointed out yourself in other posts. Good as he is this year, Greinke’s NOT quite the equivalent of Pedro at his peak. But to say “Not Pedro = Not Dominant” is obviously pretty silly, and saying Greinke compares more to Roger Moret is simply laughable. You’ll not find a bigger Rice homer anywhere, but I’m not going to try to defend him here. He’s a grown up, let him take his medicine if that’s what you think he’s got coming. Though I can’t imagine that lighting him up for this will have any real impact, it might be a worthwhile exercise to point out that his long-awaited HOF election does not grant him free reign to give voice to any damn fool notion that comes to mind.
[...] Original post: Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Jim Rice on Zack [...]
Still Jim Rice 1978 as a hitter slightly better than Zack Greinke this year. Both pretty dominant. The unfortunate thing is that somehow Jim Rice and not Eck answers questions on a blog. Actually an unedited Eck answering questions about baseball would be possibly the best thing ever. I’ve had too much of Jim Rice already.
Joe – Let it go. Rice sounds no different than Frank White dismissing the importance of OBP.
Well, since he was mad about not being in the Hall of Fame all these years, one would think that Jim Rice has very little grasp on what quality talent looks like.
Respond to a crazy person at your own peril.
To #30,
Jim Rice is the best Left fielder of the past forty years…if you decide not to include Rickey Henderson, Barry Bonds, the Yaz, Manny Ramirez, and possibly Tim Raines and Lou Brock.
There are others but the list is rather long.
All Rice needs to know about Greinke is that, in his prime, he’d have batted .125 off him.
Rice is not salvagable, any more than is Reusse or Morgan or any of the others that are afraid of the future.
If you are going to post 20,000 words, aim them at the young, help us educate the youth of America (heck, write a nice long essay for SI Kids or whatever it is called about stats…..that would be world changing….).
Here’s another website with the Rice link:
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/36221/jim_rice_unimpressed_by_zack_greinke
Baseball fans outside of NY and Boston can’t accept the fact that Zach is the best pitcher in baseball right now.
He has allowed 1 run in the last 35 innings!
Joe, please respond to Jim Rice. Someone must stand up and be the voice of reason in explaining some basic facts to the “experts on the East Coast”.
Eric Langhorst
His HoF credentials should be suspended.
“Baseball fans outside of NY and Boston can’t accept the fact that Zach is the best pitcher in baseball right now.”
Nice broad brush you paint people with. My coworkers in an office in the greater Boston area all agree that Zack should win the Cy.
We also don’t much like Jim Ed’s job on NESN as pre/postgame commentator either, because he’s got a bad case of the mumbles and doesn’t embrace the advanced stuff unlike our front office.
I don’t think it’s an East Coast thing. I just think Jim Rice doesn’t do much analysis or thinking. What he knows about Greinke is what he sees with his own eyes and what sportscasters say about him. Clearly, he was aware of the hype surrounding Greinke, that’s why he commented. But Rice is the type of guy who judges Greinke not on how he’s done over the season, or using advanced statistics, he judges Greinke based on what he sees with his own eyes. And what he saw was a 6 inning pitcher who didn’t strikeout many batters. To Jim Rice, that’s what Greinke is. I surmise that’s what Roger Moret was too.
Eh, Rice is entitled to his incredibly stupid opinion. What’s the point in trying to have a discussion with someone who doesn’t want to learn or think?
Isn’t it Jesus who said that he’d only be with us a short time, but the stupid would be with us always? Something like that? Just meditate for a bit and realize a person can’t waste too much time on stupidity. There’s too much of it in the world to get worked up about.
I vote for some more music blogging, but that’s probably just me.
Let me try and get into Rice’s head here…
“Um, we’re talking about the Royals. The K.C. Royals. How can a AAA team have the Cy Young winner? Doesn’t make sense. See if I had even one world series ring I’d have been in the Hall years ago. This kid? How can someone seriously vote for him when he could win 35 and the Royals would still be in the tank?
(long stretch I know but it’s either that or he really is a complete idiot)
Finish him! Finish him!
Everyone needs to relax and read more closely. He didn’t say Moret was as good as Zack, just that they had similar styles. Z was not particularly dominant that night and did walk 3 in 6 innings with a 5-0 lead. That start would not stand out in the careers of Pedro, Clemens or Johan. Joe, I love the site, but find the inciting of the masses distasteful. (btw, Moret had many very good games before his fall. Check Retrosheet or B-R)
Jim Rice, being the worst HOF inductee since Gary Carter, should not be listened to regarding anything baseball-award related. I say you go, Joe!
sick ‘em
@Will #65: Clearly, Greinke was pitching to the score.
Put paid to these gibbering zombies! Yarr!
” Z was not particularly dominant that night and did walk 3 in 6 innings with a 5-0 lead.”
And, Rice was basing the entirety of his opinion of Zack on one outing.
In all due fairness to Jim, Zack walked 3 while striking out only 5. That doesn’t particularly smell of dominance. Jim also did (kind of) qualify his statement by pointing out that he was only commenting on one game.
I’m not saying that he’s right, but a 3 walks and 5 Ks doesn’t smell of dominance.
I’m a huge, huge Zack fan and have watch most of his games this year. Zack did make some good pitches tuesday night, but he also did struggle with his control in the 5th and 6th. But, the sign of a great pitcher is being able to get people out without your best stuff.
The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And [Joe] will strike down upon [Jim Rice] with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy [Zack Grienke]. And you will know [his] name is the Lord when [he] lay[s] [his] vengeance upon [Jim Rice].
Please rip him to shreds, you could also throw in the fact he doesn’t belong in the hall while you’re at it.
By a knight of ghostes and shadowes
I summon’d am to tourney
Ten leagues beyond the wild world’s end.
Methinks it is no journey.
(from “Tom o’Bedlam,” anon.; c. 1600)
Translation: whup him!
Furious Response.
Don’t do this for me, do it for you, Joe.
he’s right…. i’m moving greinke to mop-up duty, soria to designated hitter, and i’ve asked jim to come aboard and play shortstop for us next season.
http://www.sullivantire.com/commonnav/contact_us.aspx
That is the “Contact us” link on the sullivan tire website. Sullivan tire sponsors Rice’s blog. You can email them through this link and call for his immediate termination. He is wealthy enough that you shouldn’t feel bad if they actually do.
Seriously, No. 78? He should be fired because you disagree with him?
Jeez, they’re selling tires.
If you’re having trouble getting to the site, here’s a workaround:
– google for “grienke is a good pitcher – not dominant” (the name of Jim Rice’s post)
– click the “Cached” link on the result.
I got this and was able to read it:
http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:HzvFMmGuwmUJ:ask14.sullivantire.com/%3Fp%3D170+greinke+is+a+good+pitcher+-+not+dominant&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Jeff P – Gary Carter was awesome.
Joe – I’m sure I’d enjoy a 20,000 word post. But that doesn’t necessarily mean you should write one.
Let him have it, Pos.
This seems a tad bit of a over reaction. Greinke this year has certainly been dominant and has been the best pitcher in baseball THIS year, but he still has to earn some stripes to be called the best pitcher in baseball. He is having an awesome year, definitely Cy Young caliber, but I almost wonder how historic his season is. Sure his ERA+ is 210, but is it a better season than Steve Carlton had in 1972? Carlton’s ERA+ was a measly 182, BUT he pitched 346 innings. Pedro’s ERA+ in his 210-210-210 seasons were 219, 243 and 291… these seasons are not exactly comparable to Greinke’s, they are superior. I like Greinke, but I could respect Mauer’s season being blown up more than Greinke’s… what Mauer is genuinely historic… He has the second best OPS+ of any catcher in a single season… EVER.
So in a sense, a portion of what Rice says makes sense, Greinke is not Pedro. He IS dominant, but Joe, this site and its inhabitants are coronating Greinke a little prematurely. You have to dominate for more than a season and a half to be the BEST pitcher in baseball.
Here’s a fun stat:
“The lowest OPS of any MLB regular who qualifies is Yuniesky Betancourt’s .607. Zack Greinke’s OPS-against, from the entire league, is .612. “
Note to self: Never begin a (serious) sentence with the phrase, “Sure his ERA+ is 210, but…”
Well, maybe not never. How about, “Sure his ERA+ is 210, but he attacked a toddler with a 6 iron at a charity golf event.”
He’s not worthy.
-Sox fan in MA
quote the number that Mellinger posted earlier that PROVE Zack is better than anyone on the planet right now – yes they ARE mind blowing stats, and anyone who makes comments like Rice did NEEDS to get his mind blown – or something
Joe-
Let it go. I’m a diehard Sox fan born in 1972, so Jim Rice was my absolute hero as a kid.
As an adult who watches him regularly on NESN, I’m astounded at how dumb he is. And dumb would be bad enough, but he’s REALLY arrogant on top of it.
I heard these comments live and started chuckling. Ignore them. No fan of the Red Sox takes him seriously, nor should any of you…
What a bitterman!
In the words of Bugs Bunny: “What an ultramaroon.” I left a response on his site, but he moderates his blog (I hate that). Would love to see your 20,000 word post as it would be a refreshing change from the book plugging (not that I blame you). There certainly will be a response on my site.
@85
Point taken. At the same time I think the pedestal that Greinke is being put on here is a little ridiculous… to an almost annoying degree.
I love Joe and his writing and feel that Greinke is the best pitcher in baseball this year. I can’t stand Jim Rice and feel that his induction to the Hall of Fame, while not disgraceful, was not warranted.
To tear him apart because he was too critical of Greinke is ridiculous. Greinke IS NOT in Pedro’s league, Greinke has not yet proven himself to be in Johan Santana’s league. I have no doubt that he will, after a few years of Cy Young, or near Cy Young caliber pitching, prove to be in Santana’s league, but he is not quite there yet.
Back to a question that was posed in the Zack live blog the other day… it would be more of a travesty if Mauer lost the MVP than if Greinke lost the Cy… reason? Mauer is farther ahead of his peers than is Greinke. Hernandez is in the same universe… nobody is in Mauer’s.
Joe, I love reading everything you write (I now have my copy of The Machine and am saving it for an overseas flight I’m taking this weekend). I will read your writing about Snuggies, Zack Greinke, Jim Rice, or grass growing. But I don’t think Rice is worth the trouble, and I really think it’s insulting that he’s in the HOF and Bert isn’t. There’s lore that Rice was this feared hitter, even though he wasn’t walked much. Unfortunately, the lore about Blyleven’s curve ball has faded into relative obscurity. Bert’s yakker jellylegged more hitters that Rice’s plate appearances ever did.
If you argue lore, Bert’s got better lore. If you argue stats, Bert’s got better stats. So how come if you argue both, folks think Rice is more HOF-worthy? What a crock…
I was hoping you’d write a scathing response!
While a 20,000 word post would make my day, just reading what Rice “wrote” is enough comedy for me.
Funny, but there is a place to leave comments, just no place to read them. Reading the comments would have probably brought tears to my eyes.
Yeah, well Jim Rice reminded me of Don Baylor, except slower and uglier.
Please crush him.
For the record, it’s not so much Rice’s opinion that Zack isn’t Pedro-dominant that should bother us.
It’s the fact that he somehow considered Zack’s game on Tuesday less-than dominant.
Pedro’s average Game Score in his 23-win season: 69.
Zack on Tuesday: 70.
So his performance would have been above-average even for Pedro in ‘99. W, exactly, TF is Rice complaining about?
Please write a response and email it to him.
It would definitely be entertaining for us to read a 20k word rebuttal; but as has been said, Jim Rice is an idiot, so I say let it go.
C’mon Joe, be white on Rice!
Joe,
I think you just rope-a-doped Rice. Your minions made your point. Now you can sit back and think, “He-he-he, my pretties. Go get Rice and his little dog, too.” Did he deserve the flying monkey treatment for his ignorance? YES. Now, let him go and stay away from water.
I was able to send a comment to his to his site, no problem. Whether it is actually be posted is another story.
I’ll make 2 points, and neither one of them involve me calling Jim Rice a moron (I know that puts me in the extreme minority).
1: Jim Rice, like a lot of TV baseball analysts only watch their team’s games and do not follow the any other MLB news unless it’s on the station’s dime. I highly doubt he reads the Around the League column in the local paper, and it’s obvious from his comments (“maybe it was an off night…”) that he has never seen Greinke pitch before. Heck, he may not have ever heard of him before.
2:Following his stinging rebuke from Yankee fans for his comments about Jeter being a disgrace to the game, maybe Jim Rice thought he’d go kick sand on Royal fans, figuring their’s only a half-dozen of them and how much ruckus could they cause? Next up, Jim Rice takes on the fan base of the double A New Britain Rock Cats.
3rd point (actually it’s less a point than it is just plain sarcasm): we should count our blessing that Mass. Governor Deval Patrick tapped someone to fill Ted Kennedy’s seat for the short term, and as far as I know, Jim Rice did not make it to the short list.
The man is wrong about Greinke, but he is entitled to his opinion. What’s most embarrassing to Rice and insulting to ZG, and what I’m shocked hasn’t been mentioned yet here in the comments, is that the only things that Greinke and Moret have in common are: 1) ML pitchers and 2) they each suffered psychological issues. It’s pretty clear to me that the only way that Greinke reminds Rice of Moret is in the fact that they both left baseball due to psychological issues. In Moret’s case, sadly, after his breakdown, he pitched only a few more games before his career ended.
It’s so embarrassing for Rice, no? That he still and only sees Greinke as some guy who went cuckoo?
Better idea:
1) Run an 800-word piece on Vernon Ruhle. Jim will LOVE that.
2) Wait until Jim’s next idiotic statement.
3) Do a combo piece on idiotic statement #2 and Greinke after Zack wins the Cy Young.
This will also give you time to better organize your thoughts.
Sweep the leg
I’d say: Cut and paste together 20,000 words from your Zack Greinke archives if you feel the need and spend 20,000 words worth of energy on something that makes you happy, Joe.
I’m with Robert S. @104. Rice is talking about his idea of Greinke, not Greinke.
Reading the non sequitur of the homer announcer as code for something else has served me well through many a postgame report. Going that route, I’d decipher Rice’s comment as a rebuttal to the ’say nice things about Zack’ session the Sox held after the game. Jim Ed was, in my fading memory of his playing days, none too fond of that sort of talk.
Jim Rice is a ridiculous Red Sox homer. If Greinke had done that exact thing against the Yankees, he’d be praising him. If Beckett had pitched exactly like that, he’d be leading the parade.
This is the same guy who claimed kids shouldn’t look up to Derek Jeter because he doesn’t play the game right. You may think Jeter is overrated, but even Boston fans I know admit that Jeter plays the game “the right way” and is a good role model for children (as far as we know of course). He’s never been suspected of steroid use, he runs out ground balls, plays hard, etc. Rice is an idiot.
@92:
I’d say (and I’d vote for Mauer) that there is a legitimate reason to not vote for Mauer. Missing a month does matter and I think it’s even mentioned in the guidelines. Now at this point he’s been so good that it shouldn’t matter, but while you may disagree, there’s a reasonable reason to say “Okay, but he missed a month of the season and I think the MVP should play all season”.
Whereas Greinke is above everyone else in everything but record, and that’s not his fault. As great as Felix has been, he’s not really “close” because he’s worse in every way except having an extra win and a couple less losses.
To me it’s Mauer and Greinke, definitely, but I can see a legitimate argument against Mauer based on missing that month, especially if the Twins miss the playoffs (as you can argue the Twins with Mauer would have won a couple more games in April and made it). Plus the MVP award is far more subjective. There’s no good argument against Greinke unless he gets mauled his last two starts while Felix pitches two shutouts or so.
Tonight, Greinke has reached new heights of heroism (in my mind, anyway).
Tonight, he was ejected from the game – after he rightfully called out the ump from the dugout for squeezing the strike zone on Lerew.
So much has been made out of his social anxiety disorder and his sheepish nature … for him to yell out of the dugout and use his “newfound clout” as the best pitcher in the game in order to support a teammate making his debut … speaks volumes about the kind of dominating player – and leader – he has become.
There’s little doubt that his teammates (and the fans) will stand and recognize that sort of grit. It’s just the thing the team has lacked for years, and even if tonight’s actions were mostly symbolic, they’ll possibly reap far greater rewards in the future.
Congrats to Zack on a dominating Cy Young season … and for becoming the leader the Royals desperately need. I loudly applaud his ejection from tonight’s game!
This is a brilliant play on the part of Joe and the Royals PR staff in a bid to land Greinke the Cy. Look, not only is Rice an idiot – he’s a hated idiot. The baseball writers loathe this guy. How else to explain his being on the ballot for over a decade before getting into Cooperstown. Ok, so maybe not having no doubt HOF credentials had something to do with it, but it mostly had to do with his relationship with the writers. They hated one another. So who better to pique the writers into voting for Greinke than good ‘ol Jim Ed? Well played Joe, well played.
I’m confused… is this a poll? Where do I vote for “Let him have it”?
I mean, really, Roger Moret? Heck, Shane Reynolds I could see, but Roger Moret?
#110 – Funny, I don’t remember the Royals EVER having any problems with Tim McClelland’s umpiring crew.
I can’t access the link to Rice’s words so I can’t vote properly but I can imagine them readily enough.
Rice didn’t deserve to make the HoF for his physical abilities but if it were a Hall for intelligent, well reasoned analysis, not even the lame voters who finally put him in could have ever voted for him.
Greinke’s game that Rice criticized featured a WHIP of 0.833. In Bob Gibson’s record setting 1968, arguably the best pitching season ever, Gibson had a WHIP of 0.85.
Greinke’s non-dominant game featured an ERA of 0.00. Gibson’s best pitching season ever had an ERA of 1.12.
Greinke’s non-dominant game had 7.5K/9 IP. Gibson’s great season was 7.9.
In almost every respect, Greinke put up a game that would very comfortably fit into the best pitching season of all time. But there’s more. In 1968, Gibson was pitching in one of the best pitching eras of all time. Greinke is pitching in a time of much more offense. Greinke also has to face the designated hitter. Gibson never had to do that. Clearly this wouldn’t have been the best game Gibson had in the best pitching season ever, but it would have been an above average start in every respect except for innings. If an above average start in the greatest pitching season ever isn’t good enough to be called dominant, then I suspect that the speaker doesn’t know what the word dominant means. To me, any time a pitcher shuts out the Red Sox, it’s dominant.
Rice’s argument that Greinke wasn’t dominant is the same kind of argument that put Rice in the HOF: one that depends on personal opinion, not one backed up by any measurable statistics. So yeah, rip Rice a new one, and feel free to use any of the arguments I made.
Joe, in the blogosphere, you’re Nolan Ryan, Rice is Robin Ventura. You know how to handle this.