Zack Live Blog
Posted: September 22nd, 2009 | Filed under: Baseball | 120 Comments »
This time we start this thing on time.
First inning: Zack gets Jacoby Ellsbury to hit ground ball to second on third pitch. He fallsl behind 3-1 to Dustin Pedroia, who pokes a double over Mark Teahen’s head — Teahen seemed to get a bad jump, though I don’t think he would have caught it anyway. Victor Martinez flies to left on first pitch. Nice battle with Youkilis, gets ahead 1-2 with fastball on outside corner, tries vainly to get Youkilis to chase slider, Youk fouls back 96-mph fastball, then swings over the slider. That’s strikeout 225 for Greinke.
Question from Brilliant Reader Dwade: Assuming neither wins their respective award, who is the bigger snub: Joe Mauer or Zack Greinke?
There are a few people who have been making the suggestion the last few days that maybe all this handwringing over Mauer and Greinke (especially Greinke) is rather pointless, that the Baseball Writers are not dumb people, they are not easily swayed by the shaky logic you may hear on talk radio or on some of the television highlight shows. Their suggestion is that Greinke will win the Cy Young, Mauer will win the MVP, and the rest of this is just about propping up straw men.
Maybe so. I’m actually on record saying that I think Greinke will win the Cy Young and I’ll go on record now saying that I think Mauer will win the MVP … assuming nothing especially dramatic or unusual happens the last few days of the season (and with the Royals up 5-0 in the first inning against Boston now, Greinke sure looks in good position to win tonight). So I think it’s probably unfair to talk about snubs.
That said: Greinke would be the bigger snub. Rightly or wrongly, MVP means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. But the Cy Young goes only to the best pitcher. And Zack Greinke is the best pitcher in the Ameircan League.
* * *
Second inning: Greinke gets ahead of David Ortiz 0-2 … then gets him to hit an infield bloop to Betancourt. Jason Bay grounds to second on the first pitch. The “You Call It” text question is: “What’s you’re favorite nickname for the curveball.” Unfortunately, two of the four answers misspelled — Duece instead of Deuce and Yaaker instead of Yakker. Sigh. J.D. Drew flies out to right field. Another scoreless inning. He has allowed one earned run in 32 innings — and that earned run could have been prevented with a good catch from David DeJesus.
And there’s the creepy Burger King commercial again.
* * *
Question from Brilliant Reader Old Man Duggan: Why do you think Keith Law hates “The Catcher in the Rye”?
Here’s Keith’s answer in Twitter form: “Unlikeable protagonist. No real plot, def no narrative greed. Read it twice before I turned 14, never went back.”
That’s a shame. It’s funny … for reasons I could never fully explain, Catcher in the Rye was one of the defining reading experiences of my life. I won’t say it’s the book that made me want to write, not exactly,, but it is probably the book that made me want to read. I couldn’t tell you why. I did not really relate to Holden Caulfield, my life shared nothing with his, and I would not disagree with anything Keith said about the plot or narrative. But the writing techniques were so unique, so eye opening, they opened up entirely new ideas about the possibility of the written word. I remember one conversation Holden was having where you could tell how loudly or softly he was speaking based on her reaction, and it was perfect. There was a lot of stuff like that. I’m not saying Keith is wrong, not at all. Books hit different people in different ways. I’m just saying Catcher in the Rye had a huge effect on me and my life.
* * *
Third inning: Greinke gets ahead of Jason Varitek 0-1, and then gets him to dribble a grounder toward short — Alex Gordon ranged way over to his left and flipped to first. Greinke starts off Alex Gonzalez with a slow curve for a ball — you can begin to see that Zack is feeling it. He then throws three fastballs — he blows the second and third right past Gonzalez. Yes, he is feeling it now. Anyone who would think that Zack would not be as good against better competition simply has not seen him pitch. There’s no other explanation. When he’s on — and it does look like he’s on now — no team is hitting him. No team. It’s Ellsbury again, he starts him off with a 94-mph fastball for a K, then throws a slow curve at 73 for a strike — incredible pitch. Just incredible. Ellsbury is helpless. Greinke can put him away any way he wants. He decides to jam Ellsbury with a 96 mph fastball, and it works. Ellsbury hits a lazy fly ball to center. Zack has retired eight in a row.
* * *
Brilliant reader question from Bart: I’m 26 and I didn’t hear Thunder Road until this year. Is this a failure of parenting, society, or both?
Answer: Both.
And while this is unrelated: I played a few Michael Jackson songs for my daughters this evening before starting the live blog. Apparently there is a young boy at Elizabeth’s school — Jay — who loves Michael Jackson and has some dreams of becoming the next Michael Jackson. I find this to be impossibly awesome, and so Elizabeth wanted to hear a few songs. She kind of freaked out watching the beginning of Thriller so we moved on to a few others — I have to admit I had forgotten all about the MacAuley Culkin lead-in to the video “Black or White.”
I had also forgotten: That’s a good song. Well, it is.
* * *
Tweet from brother in arms Mike Vaccaro: Man, is Zack Greinke ever fun to watch. Especially tonight, sewing up the Cy.
At 12:01 tonight, apparently, a little Q&A between Vackie and myself on The Machine. And just in the nick of time … book fell out of the Top 1,000 on Barnes & Noble.
* * *
Fourth inning: Falls behind 3-1 to Pedroia again — something about Pedroia make him tough for Zack to pitch to. This time he walks Pedroia to lead off the inning. He starts off Victor Martinez with a swinging-strike change-up — it’s just not fair when Greinke throws a good change-up to go along with fastball, curveball, slider. At 1-1, he throws ANOTHER change-up, and Martinez fouls it off. There just isn’t another pitcher in the game today who can come at you with such different looks. He threw a 2-seam fastball at 89, that Martinez flies to right.
Greinke then starts off Kevin Youkilis with a slow curve for a strike. It’s beautiful to watch.
I should point out that the You Call It guys corrected all their spellings for the “What’s your favorite curveball nickname” question. That’s good work. That’s how I try to do it on the blog too — just fix your mistakes.
Another good battle with Greinke and Youkilis. Slow curve, hard fastball in, curveball on outside corner, 97 mph fastball up, 91 mph slider fouled off, 90 mph slider for strike three. Damn. It’s art.
Gets Ortiz to 2-2, and then strikes him out with his classic strikeout pitch, the slider down and in to lefties. Four scoreless innings, one hit allowed, doesn’t appear to be too intimidated by the awesomeness of the American League East, at least not so far.
* * *
Question from Brilliant Reader Avi: Joe, what are you more excited about over the next two weeks? The AL Central “race” or Adam Dunn’s quest to hit exactly 40 homers for the sixth straight year?
Well, there’s no doubt that I’m watching this American League Central race closely — as I wrote on SI.com today — but I’m not going to lie to you: I’m keeping a VERY close eye on Adam Dunn. He has 37 home runs — he just needs three more the last two weeks to get to 40. And if he pulls it off, that would mean precisely 40 home runs for FIVE consecutive seasons. I would put this up there with DiMaggio’s 56-game streak. I mean, you almost have to be trying to prove something to hit exactly 40 home runs in five straight years.
I also hope that if he hits his 40th home run with three or four games left, the Nationals have the good sense to rest him for the rest of the season.
* * *
Fifth inning: Greinke gets ahead of Jason Bay 1-2, and there are just so many things he can do here. He throws inside to move Bay’s feet and then strikes him out with … what was that? Two-seam fastball, I guess, but it backed up like a change-up. Crazy pitch. He gets behind 3-0 to Drew, throws a strike, and walks Drew. This is something about Zack … he doesn’t walk many, but he also doesn’t give in. If he walks you, he walks you. I don’t think that walk bothered him at all.
He throws the 96-mph fastball up to Varitek, who turns on it and hit the ball hard and foul. He was waiting on that. Gets ahead 1-2, and throws a 97-mph fastball just off the outside corner — really close. A change-up down makes it 3-2. This will be an interesting pitch here … down for Ball 4. Greinke definitely did NOT want to walk Varitek. He was mad about not getting the call on that fastball just off the corner.
Now, he starts Alex Gonzalez with a fastball down and away for a ball. Miguel Olivo comes out to talk to Greinke. That has been an interesting an odd relationship — the one between Greinke and Olivo. I like Miguel Olivo — everyone does — but as far as I know nobody has ever called him a genius at handling pitchers. Still, there is something about those two that click. I don’t know what they talk about but Olivo knows how to settle Greinke down. And sure enough, next pitch, Gonzalez pops out in the infield.
Fastball outside corner to start off Ellsbury 0-1. He then throws the slow curve, Ellsbury hits fly ball to center, inning over, threat over, another scoreless inning. Greinke’s ERA is now 2.09.
* * *
Here was a question and answer from the Joe Morgan chat … I will post it without comment. Well, one comment: I’m sure, absolutely sure, it was a setup. And I do wonder, sometimes, if Joe just gives these answers to keep his reputation intact.
Mike (CT)
Do you think a speedy player should lead off the batting order or a player that gets on base a lot but isn’t that fast? Thanks.
Joe Morgan (11:23 AM)
I would rather have a speedy player. I’ll give you a great example. Wade Boggs hit lead off most of his career, had 200 hits a lot, high batting average, high OBP, but couldn’t run. His OBP was higher than Rickey Henderson’s but who would you rather have leading off? That should answer your question. A guy that can run sets the table, sets the tone, puts pressure on the other team right away. A guy who gets on base and can’t run isn’t as valuable as one who can.
* * *
Sixth inning: Pedroia jumps out of his shoes to swing at a 71-mph curveball — he hits it to rightfield for the first out. Zack starts off Marinez with a slow curve for a strike, just misses the outside corner with a fastball, misses with the change-up and then tries another change-up and Martinez rips it to right for a single. Martinez is too good a hitter to keep getting out with change-ups. Zack is so good that sometimes he just has to get cute. He can’t help it, and neither would any of us if we had his touch and feel for pitching. Now, it’s Youkilis, who has struck out twice. He flies easily to center for the second out.
Zack starts out Ortiz with a fastball for a strike, misses with the change-up (he’s LOVING his change-up tonight), and hits the corner with a fastball. Now 1-2, how will he try to put Ortiz away? He tries with a slider that hits the dirt. He then hangs a slider, Ortiz crushes it up the middle for a sure single up the middle … only the Royals are in a shift, and Betancourt makes an acrobatic play. And, yes, I know that I will not often be able to write those words. Yuni jumps high, snags the line drive, third out, another scoreless inning. ERA is 2.08.
* * *
Brilliant Reader question from Steak: Would you have rather lived in/experienced Cinci during the mid-70’s or KC during the mid-80’s?
Answer: I learned fairly early in my stay in Cincinnati, that the correct abbreviation is actually: Cinti. I know. Don’t ask.
I suspect that Cincinnati in the 70s and Kansas City in the late 70s and 80s were very similar. I think if given the choice, I would have liked to experience Cleveland in 1948.
Sigh. Royals announcers and friends Ryan and Frank are ripping Ultimate Zone Rating now in relation to Yuniesky Betancourt’s defense. Apparently, they think he’s a great defensive shortstop now. I’d like to take back my “acrobatic play” quote.
* * *
Um, Zack Greinke is not pitching the seventh inning.
And I would like to make a prediction right now … are you listening? Are you listening? The Royals are going to lose this game, and Zack is going to lose this victory. Just saying. I do hope I’m wrong.
Editor’s note: Roman Colon looked great in the seventh with two strikeouts … so maybe I am wrong.
* * *
Brilliant Reader question from Devon: Do you think Zack will post a sub-2.00 ERA this year?
Well, based on some quick math, it looks like if he throws 10 scoreless innings in his final two starts, he will have an ERA below 2.00. He could also give up one run in 14 innings and drop that ERA to 1.99. So, yeah, he’s got a real shot.
* * *
Don’t know why they pulled Zack — but the elbow might be a little tender. Remember, he got hit on the elbow last time out by the Miggy Cabrera line drive.
* * *
Colon bobbles through eighth, but only allows one run and it’s looking good for Zack and victory No. 15. I should say, I’m getting numerous emails and Tweets about things said about Peter Gammons, Michael Kay, John Kruk and various other former players and announcers who, to be fair, will not vote on the Cy Young Award. I don’t think the people on TV and radio who think victories are how you judge pitchers will matter … I think Zack all but wrapped up the Cy Young Award tonight.
Unless, you know, I’m wrong.
The always interesting and entertaining Dave Cameron wrote a nice piece about how even if you take away Zack’s preposterous April, he’s still the best pitcher in the league and deserves the Cy Young.
Incidentally: Yuni just flew out. He’s oh-for-something and his batting average is down to .237, and his on-base percentage with the Royals is around .260, and silly stats like UZR and Plus/Minus suggest he’s the worst defensive shortstop in baseball. Could stats be THAT wrong and the naked eye be THAT right? Is that really possible?
* * *
A joyful ending. Zack Greinke — six scoreless innings, drops his ERA, eliminates that absurd “He hasn’t beaten the Red Sox” gripe, and gets his 15th victory. You never know how these things will go in the end … but again, I think he wins the Cy Young, and after tonight I don’t even think it will be very close.
* * *
Final note: I don’t want to end on a downer, but since I have spent all night exhibiting my faith in the process and in the BBWAA, it would be dishonest of me not to mention the email I got from Brilliant Reader Joe, who heard Cy Young voter Pat Reusse on the radio Tuesday. You can go here if you want to hear it all (it begins at 33:25) but Pat’s quote basically goes like this: “He’s going to have to move that (win) number for me to vote for him … I don’t care what his numbers say. He’s gotta get to at least 16 for me to vote for him.”
I will repeat: I do think Greinke will win the Cy Young. And I don’t think it will be close. But … yeah.
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Well, it looks like Greinke’s going to get an Morris-like buffer in which to pitch-to-score.
Can we change the calendar in the locker room next year where every month reads September? Mike Jacobs just got a four pitch walk with the bases loaded!
did someone tell Byrd he’s facing a team that can’t hit? He’s pitching around us for some reason.
Who is this team, and what did they do with the Royals?
Disagree about the bigger slump. Greinke’s year has been done before. Mauer’s hasn’t.
Not sure if I like all of these balls getting hit squarely through 2 innings off of Zack.
Methinks somebody’s going to hit one out off of him.
I disagree Joe, I think the talk of Greinke not winning the Cy Young is more than hand wringing. I’m not saying writers are dumb, but a lot are set in there ways and they view wins as being the most important stat. These are the same people who discard OBP as a worthless newfangled stat.
ESPN Gamecast says there’s a 92% chance of Royals winning. When’s the last time we had those odds before the 8th inning?
The Royals are finding walks, but GameCast on mlb.com has both pitchers getting squeezed a bit.
Greinke’s stuff is good enough to get outs anyway. Byrd’s isn’t.
I think Zach’s got a big problem in the Cy Young race: The Bill James/Rob Neyer Cy Young Predictor.
Since 2002, the “Predictor” has been right in forecasting the winner 10 out of 14 times (seven each in the AL and NL). Three of the wrong picks went to starters rather than the closers who led in the James/Neyer model.
This year? Zach is THIRD, behind Hernandez and Sabathia. And Sabathia will pick up more points in the model when the Yanks win the AL East.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/features/cyyoung
This isn’t the be-all and end-all of the situation, of course, but it doesn’t bode well for Zach.
I’m 26 and I didn’t hear Thunder Road until this year. Is this a failure of parenting, society, or both?
As a Yankee fan I hope the Royals start playing like the Royals again before their series, as for now I’m liking this.
Just an exercise, I’m not saying it answers anything but it is just a thought?
Picture the Yankees without Sabathia and then picture the Royals without Grienke. Just food for thought.
Rdriley,
The Cy Predictor isn’t a measure of how good a pitcher has been, but how strongly his statistics correlate to the statistics of pitchers the voters historically favor. Given that our man Dr. Z might be changing the way we, as a baseball collective, think about the pitcher Win, the Cy Predictor isn’t all that useful.
It’s beautiful, really. Zack Greinke is leading the charge toward a better global understanding of baseball and what makes pitchers good.
Fish
Seems like Peter Gamons is right. If Zach had been facing the Red Sox this year, he would have had about 6.5 runs of support per game based on the head to head this year. That would definately help his win total.
The Royals – Greinke = drafting Bryce Harper in April
Fish,
I think you might be right re: “leading the charge.”
His performance (on an otherwise crappy team) is exactly what baseball needed in terms of a wake-up call.
Now how do we get the baseball community to value OBP over AVG?
I have a very simple question. Not necessarily which one of Zack’s pitches is his best, but which of his pitches gets you most excited when he busts it out? Is it his popping fastball? His knee-buckling curveball? Or maybe his automatic-strikieout slider in the dirt?
I’d go with the slider. Any time the count goes to 0-2, I start getting excited.
Greinke walks Pedroia and lets a big f-bomb. Me thinks this game means a little more to ZG than most with garbage about not pitching to the Red Sox and Yankees this year.
I love that curveball. Makes hitters just shake their heads.
BTW, they changed the spelling on the deuce and yakker.
Ok, make yuke look bad right here with the bugs bunny curve.
Joe, as a Red Sox fan, I had no doubt Zach would sew up the Cy tonight. Unfortunately, this Sox team is a team that just can’t hit good pitching. Without Manny there’s no one who can hit a pitcher’s pitch.
Fortunately for the Sox, other than Verlander and Sabathia, no great pitchers are making the playoffs.
After seeing Youk totally strain and wince when buckling over the outside slider just now, I’m going with the slider.
Joe, what are you more excited about over the next two weeks? The AL Central “race” or Adam Dunn’s quest to hit exactly 40 homers for the sixth straight year?
So how does Greinke follow this season? Is he going to run off about five or six of these?
Has Zack been saving that 2-seamer? Are we going to see a shuuto next year? A knuckler in 2011?
Do you think the Royals hot September may have taken some of the spotlight off of the problems that faced the Royals all summer? Could this possibly hurt the Royals offseason moves?
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that Greinke’s first name ends with a K.
Question: is it the same season ticket holder that puts up those Ks, or does someone just always bring them? Has a fight ever broken out between two fans that both brought Ks to hang up? Someone get Joel on this.
Zack got hosed on that Varitek at bat…
Zack’s not getting borderline calls….the Varitek walk probably shouldn’t have happened.
But still I’m concerned about this. 3 walks, but I guess they’re not getting good swings like they were in the first couple innings.
So let’s say the BWAA gets it right across the board:
ALCY: Greinke
ALMVP: Mauer
NLCY: Lincecum
NLMVP: Pujols
That’s 3 first-round draft picks (Lincecum was a first-rounder the 3rd time he was drafted), and then a 13th round pick. Just kind of interesting, as it shows that high draft picks CAN yield high-impact players. And that the Royals should be better by now. Oh wait, I forgot, they are better–it’s September.
Joe – you mention Greinke is down to 2.09 ERA. Since I am lazy, is it possible for him to get under 2 for the year?
Would you have rather lived in/experienced Cinci during the mid-70’s or KC during the mid-80’s?
in the NESN broadcast dave roberts is absolutely giddy for greinke. he’s having trouble getting compliments out fast enough.
nice footage earlier of coco crisp saying that he’s played with lots of great pitchers…beckett, schill, c.c.–but that greinke’s season tops any he’s seen. said it’s been fun to watch…maybe the first time a royals player has used the word “fun” in a while.
You’re blogging live, and ESPN Classic is showing game six from 75.
Someone should write a book about that 75 team…
Sit him down!!
That Joe Morgan answer is ridiculous. Rickey had a .401 career OBP, as compared to Boggs’ .415. And that’s over 25 seasons, as compared to Boggs who played 18. So to use Rickey as the reason to have a speed guy at the top of the lineup is a loaded answer. He picked one of the best leadoff men in history! Who wouldn’t pick Rickey?
For a fair comparison, why not use a guy like Vince Coleman (career .324 OBP)? That’s a much better question: Wade Boggs or Vince Coleman as your leadoff man?
Wait. No. There is no way that Morgan answer is even real. Joe talking about OBP?
Ken -
Coming into the night, he needs 14 2/3 IP w/o any earned runs.
Frank White just made several positive comments about Yuni and said he thinks the Royals are going to end up getting the best of that deal. I know that “Talk Like a Pirate Day” has passed us by, but I have to give that one a “GARRRRRRRR!!!”
Zack, get out on the mound! Don’t listen to Trey!
Greinke is getting talked up by the guys on MLB.com. All positive things said. They even mentioned your Greinke SI article in passing. Then they said something along the lines of “Imagine his record if he were pitching for the Red Sox or Yankees.”
Unless he implodes in the 7th, I think that just about wraps up the Cy debate.
Leiter, Reynolds, Larkin, et al. are in no way the end-all be-all in the debate. But the fact that even they – the backwards-thinking talking heads who are usually the problem – think that Greinke is the best pitcher in baseball, all but seals the deal.
I can hear Peter Gammons now.
“Well, Greinke hasn’t had to pitch in Fenway Park against Carl Yastrzemski yet.”
*MLB TV, not .com
Joe-
Do you hate those people who hate hardcover books?
-Dan
So I come home in the 5th and find Greinke tossing a shutout (so far) against the mighty BoSox. Awesome! And The Greinke’s ERA is down under 2.10…beautiful. So Joe…
Do you think Zack will post a sub-2.00 ERA this year?
Nice shot at Peter Gammons from Ryan….
Quick! Without looking up any stats, would you rather have the best base stealer in the history of baseball or Wade Boggs as your leadoff hitter?
Wow. Thanks Trey for pulling Zack. And thanks to phenomenal parenting, October 26th will be my 5th time seeing Springsteen since he reunited with E Street.
you guys think they can blow this lead? Yup, me too.
So, devil’s advocate…Zack’s ERA is going down basically .01/inning pitched. He’s at 91 pitches and has 2 starts left…Are they trying to get him sub-2.00?
Don’t know which “Star Wars” quote to lean on: “I got a bad feeling about this” or “Allllmooossst there…”
My point being that he seems to give up runs in the 1st or late, so say they mysteriously are up again in the 5th against the Twins, he somehow has another shutout, gets pulled, starts again next Saturday then only needs 4 SO innings to get to 1.99. Well, that and he got popped on the arm last time out.
Hey, give Trey a break. He got Zack one o’ them new-fangled, saber toothed ……er, sabermetric thingies……………. uh…….yeah, a Quality Start. Had to pull him. Had to. Geez.
Not watching but wondering if he was laboring that last inning? Only 91 pitches……..
So, any thoughtz on why Trey “Man From The Hills” Hillman would be pulling Zack now, after only 91 pitches?
Being careful about the shoulder or something? He looked fine to me. 3 innings of bullpen doesn’t help Greinke’s chances of getting a win, in my opinion.
After tonight’s 6 scoreless, Greinke needs 9 scoreless innings to end up with a 1.997 ERA. Given his 50 earned runs, he’d need 225 1/3 innings. If he pitches 9 1/3 scoreless innings it’d be 1.9941 and round down.
Chris at #31 thanks for the info.
Why pull Greinke, 80 pitches last time out, 91 this time, let him pitch the 7th and maybe the 8th, why oh why…
Ah, ya beat me Joe.
Although this has been another frustrating season and I think a lot of Royals fans have cause for the public proclamations being made by the front office, the season is ending in an entertaining way. Watching the Greinke-Mauer match-up’s when the Royals play the Twins will be a nice punctuation.
Still holding my breath for this W though.
Kruk on ESPN today: Greinke needs to be PERFECT from here on out to win the Cy. Ugh.
Kruk is the John Madden of baseball- i.e., he should effing retire.
If the Royals blow this game, does that help or hurt Zack’s Cy Young chances? I would think it would help, because it shows how well Greinke can pitch but still not get a victory. And yet I’m scared that tomorrow I’ll hear quotes saying things like “When you’re facing a great team like the Red Sox, you’ve got to get more than 6 innings from your starter.” As if Greinke isn’t a great pitcher just because Hillman suddenly decided to protect the arms of his pitchers (just too late for Gil Meche).
Yeah, Kruk looked annoyed when asked about Greinke. I don’t think Zack will get snubbed though. This is just too obvious.
Getting squeezed on the strike zone is frustrating, and leads to more stressful pitching.
That’s the logical reason for pulling a guy who’s throwing a dominant two-hitter after six.
I doubt it’s Hillman’s reason.
It’s unfathomable that Hillman got a contract extension.
Then again, so did Cecil Cooper.
“Kruk looked annoyed when asked about Greinke” – Nah, that’s just his normal look….
Joe Morgan led the league in OBP four times…slugging once….OPS twice.
He never led the league in steals, batting average, homers, RBIs.
Only he would be dumb enough to criticize the lens through which his career looks the most insanely incredible.
Do you think he’s prouder of leading the league in triples in 1971 than having a .466 OBP in 1975? He just might be…
I’m on pins and needles in a 5-0 game.
I love baseball…
Like you Saburo, I’m on pins and needles in a 5-0 game.
I hate loving the Royals….
Frank just said Yuni could be a really good player for the Royals he “just needs to raise his average 20 or 25 points and do the little things.”
You have got to love “baseball men”
Oops, more appropriate on this thread.
-News alert-
Dan Gladden, announcing for the Twins, was looking at some of Greinke’s numbers. His wins and losses aren’t impressive, but he has a good ERA. Along with Sabathia, he’ll get some consideration.
Sox fan here, actually rooting for the shutout…baseball is weird.
good god, a balk. back to back walks. if they lose and kruk says something like “to be a cy young, you’ve got to be able to give your team more than 6 innings” i’m driving to bristol to kneecap him. i have room for 4 others.
I am done, up 5-0 and I have to watch Colon try to find the strike zone in between balks. Then Olivo does his normal one handed “catching” (more like slapping) with runners on base, and there goes the shut out.
Someone remind me why I am a Royals fan?
So Pos, why do you think Mauer is more valuable to the Twins than Greinke is to the Royals? I think there’s a good argument for Greinke to win MVP.
…and every Royals fan exhales at once.
Kruk also thinks it’s stupid to take a walk if you don’t have any speed.
Seriously, he said that.
“i’m driving to bristol to kneecap him. i have room for 4 others” – Shotgun!
$20 says Soria pitches in this game.
Oh, Dear Lord. Hillman put in Wright in the 9th.
5 straight balls … and counting …
Kruk apparently managed in AA for a year.
Overheard in Reading, PA:
“okay, now three-four-and-five guys in the order…if you get up in the count 3-0, you’re always gonna swing. if the pitch isn’t what you’re looking for, just miss it on purpose. odds are you’ll get something to drive on 3-1. and if not, swing and miss again. 3-2, goes without saying you’re always swinging.”
Joe,
The ZR stat on ESPN has Yuni as the 8th best ss in baseball. Is that a bad stat?
Since Soria is warming up in the pen, then I assume he is available.
If Soria is available, why is he warming up in the pen instead of closing out this game?
jay, I’m not sure where you’re trip to Bristol is originating from, but can we swing through KC and kneecap Hillman too?
Someone owes Jay $20…
If the Royals lose this game, because Soria didn’t start the 9th, then Hillman should be fired tomorrow.
Mission accomplished. 6 scoreless innings. Game has just ended. 5-1.
Yeah baby!!!
Road trip’s off, they won.
Dave Roberts just described Greinke’s stuff:
“turbo fastball
nasty slider
great changeup
that’s why he should be the leading candidate for cy young.”
Yeah yeah, this is crude and all that, but hey, I am a fan, so:
Suck on that, Gammons and Kruk and everyone else who doubted the Greinke. Suck on it.
Split lops DeJesus in with Bay and Ellsbury for Golden Glove. They must be using UZR to arrive at that conclusion.
Again he is a Left Fielder and not the Center Fielder so how could he even be considered.
This is another big step forward for Greinke for Cy Young, but I still refuse to consider the award his until its actually announced. The voters have made enough head-scratchingly bad decisions that I refuse to believe they’ll always make the right choice even if the evidence is overwhelming.
I’m in the same boat in the Mauer-for-MVP debate, though if the Twins’ continue their late charge (without Morneau, no less) it’ll certainly help.
Here’s the funny thing about the MVP debate, though…if Mauer loses it, most likely to Teixeira or possibly to Cap’n Jetes, it’ll be because he didn’t “lead his team to the playoffs,” as some hacks like to say. Meanwhile, there is NO WAY the Yankees miss the playoffs without either of those dudes. Their lead’s too huge.
If it HAD to go to someone who “led their team to the playoffs,” provided the standings stay where they are, it would have to go to Miggy. He’s probably the one guy most responsible for whether his team makes or misses the playoffs.
And just to clarify, I still think it should be Mauer, playoffs or no playoffs.
I’m glad there are other people who don’t love Catcher in the Rye. I never read it in high school, for some reason. When I read it in my late 20s, it just seemed like whining.
I hadn’t read To Kill a Mockingbird until last month, and it was infinitely better than Catcher in the Rye.
And now, back to baseball. As a Royals fan living outside of KC, I am thankful for Zack. When I wear my Royals cap now, people invariably ask me about Zack. It used to be that they’d just look at me like I had some sort of sad deformity.
“Could stats be THAT wrong and the naked eye be THAT right?”
Actually, the naked eyes of the Mariners fans and Royals fans agree with the stats:
http://www.tangotiger.net/scout/index6.php?prim_fld_cd=6
Go to the bottom of the page, and see which name appears twice.
Tonight was my first opportunity to see Zach in person this year.
With the exception of his inability to throw strikes to the midget Pedroia, it was an incredible experience. As much fun as it is to watch him pitch on TV, seeing him in person you really get the feeling you are watching Pedro during his run in Boston.
The way he was toying with the Red Sox with his slider is a wonder to behold. And to look up at the board and see he was mixing speeds with that pitch? Speechless.
FWIW, Colon was up almost as soon as the Royals half of the 6th was over. 90 pitches appears to have been the limit for Zach tonight, but it was still a treat. Oh, and I took my 7 year old daughter. She’s spoiled for life now!
“that book sucks because it isn’t as good as To Kill a Mockingbird.”
“You suck at baseball because Ted Williams was better than you.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=frontpage&pollId=78164
You’ve convinced America, Joe!
Joe,
Good thing you didn’t watch the game on TV Monday night. Ryan threw a fit that you torched him in this blog for saying RBIs were important for Abreu. They then went on to talk about how your #3 batter isn’t there to walk, he’s there to drive in runs. Apparently, they like their high OBP guys in the 7,8,9,1,2 slots (or so they said). To Frank’s credit, he did say that he would rather have a guy with a high OBP and high slugging percentage. I’m convinced that Ryan would love to see a bunt by every single batter.
[...] outside corner, tries vainly to get Youkilis to chase slider, Youk fouls back 96-mph fastball, the click for more var _wh = ((document.location.protocol=='https:') ? "https://sec1.woopra.com" : [...]
I think the ‘yaaker’ spelling was an intentional tribute to Rik Aalbert Blyleven.
“which of his pitches gets you most excited when he busts it out?”
Definitely when he throws the change-up that drops to or below 70mph. Just so unbelievably ballsy. Never fails to make me laugh. He got Youk, who looked absolutely overmatched all night, on a 71mph change in his third trip.
“I don’t care what his numbers say. He’s gotta get to at least 16 for me to vote for him”
I will give this guy props for one thing, he’s willing to put his stupidity on display for everyone to see….
I don’t care what his numbers say. He’s gotta get to at least 16 for me to vote for him”
The scary thing is there are a lot of idiots like him with votes. I really don’t understand how anyone can say something like that. His “numbers” are fantastic and the one thing he can’t control is wins. A pitcher can only do so much. You would generally assume a pitcher would get a win if he pitches 7+ with 0 or 1 runs given up, but Greinke has been robbed of that win 6 times by the horrid offense.
Dan Gladden is to sports analysis as mike in MN is to hitting the baseball, i.e., he’s just not good at it.
You should all be happy you don’t need to listen to any of the Twins’ announcers, ever. Brutal.
Gladden is as old skewl as it comes when talking about what makes a good player. He likes nothing more than a routine grounder that advances a runner. That’s way more valuable than a walk or a hit.
Brutal.
As for Reusse, I e-mailed him a simple question:
Here’s a pretty simple thought exercise for you:
You are a GM, and are going to sign one of two starting pitchers as a FA. They both are the same age; both have pitched in the AL, and want the same contract.
One has a career record of 40-40. He gives up 0-1 runs in 33% of his games, 2-3 runs in 50% of his games, and 4-5 runs in the rest. His team gives him the lowest run support in the league.
One has a career record of 55-25. He gives up 0-1 runs in 10% of his games, 2-3 runs in 33% of his games, 4-5 runs in 33% of his games, and 6+ runs in the rest, but his team gives him the most run support in the league.
Which one do you sign? Which one is actually the better pitcher? The one with the most wins or the one that, you know, actually prevents the other team from scoring?
Short outing because Trey will pitch Zack on 3 days rest the rest of the year?
That way he gets the Twins on Saturday, the Yankees on Wednesday and the Twins on the last day of the season.
Otherwise he gets the Twins on Sunday and the Twins on Friday and doesn’t face the Yankees at all.
You know, Peter Gammons was right. I just don’t understand why he says Greinke should be punished and not Teixeira and Jeter in their MVP chase. After all, those guys are going to go a full season without having to face Zack Greinke. In contrast, MVP candidate Miggy Cabrera has faced Greinke FIVE times, going 2-14 against him. You can make arguments like this all day and night if you like. But I will stop before I do insane.
Another tidbit about Catcher in the Rye, apparently the character of the jerk who horns in on Holden’s date during intermission of the play they attended was inspired by none other than George H.W. Bush…quote from the novel- ” His name was George something – I don’t even remember- and he went to Andover. Big, big deal.”
The “You Call It” had another spelling error apparently. It should be your not you’re favorite nickname for a curve ball.
“Short outing because Trey will pitch Zack on 3 days rest the rest of the year?” – No no no no no no….
Don’t screw up Zack’s routine now in order to try and get him one more start.
[...] There are a few peoRead more at http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/09/22/zack-live-blog/ [...]
Greinke’s gonna face the Twins twice more? Oh, man. Given many voters’ propensity to look at wins (pitcher wins for Cy, team wins – particularly making the playoffs – for MVP) when choosing award winners, is it possible that Mauer or Greinke could wind up hurting the other’s chances at their respective awards?
If Greinke mows down the Twins and they miss the playoffs by a game or two, some voters will automatically bump Mauer down their ballots. Conversely, if the Twins beat Greinke, you just KNOW a lot of guys will go with Sabathia as their Cy pick because his team scored umpteen billion more runs for him.
Re: #10/rdriley –
The Cy Young predictor now shows Greinke in first place.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/features/cyyoung
“Something about Pedroia make him tough for Zack to pitch to.”
I’m thinking it’s his hitting.
Not to slam on sports journalism as a whole (I think Joe is fantastic and I think he really gets it), but why is the Cy Young Award even voted on by a bunch of baseball writers? Aren’t these the same geniuses that kept Buck out of the Hall of Fame? Why don’t the players vote on these things?
And here is Reusse’s reply (for all I know, he gets hundreds of e-mails a day, so I won’t rip him for his brevity, but I wasn’t thrilled with the depth of his reply):
“Victories will always be a very important consideration for me. And I have the vote.”
Not thrilled with the tone in the 2nd sentence, but it is pretty much classic Reusse.
[...] The Great Poz-dini’s take and live blog. [...]
“And I have the vote.” – And that is a scary thought….
I didn’t hear Thunder Road until this year either, and I’m 28. But the thing is, had I heard it in highschool it wouldn’t have meant anything to me – at 16 I wasn’t thinking that maybe I’m not that young anymore. If I came across that song a decade ago it would’ve been just another of those tunes that people older than me lionized and had no emotional resonance with me whatsoever. In other words, I don’t at all think it’s a failure for people our age to have just heard this song. We heard Thunder Road when we were able to hear it.
What exactly do you mean, “Could stats be THAT wrong and the naked eye be THAT right?”? That sounds as though Yuni actually LOOKS like a good shortstop. He does, on occasion, make a play that resembles that of a Major League SS. But, there are far more plays where he doesn’t come close to getting to a ball that most ML SS’s would. Perhaps it should be “…and wishful thinking be THAT right?”
I’m guessing I would have been in my twenties, forty years ago, when I read Catcher In The Rye and I can still feel the disappointment.
Holden Caulfield was a complete arse – thoroughly unlikeable, no redeeming features at all. More than that, he was supposed to be what, 17 years old? And acted (or was written to act) like he was 24.
Gimme a break. Bruce Wayne is more believeable.
Now if I can just get someone to join me in putting the boot into Citizen Kane, today will be a worthwhile day.
Rev Slappy @ #108
Don’t apologise. I’ve been in and around sports journalism most of my working life and I’d be the first to say these guys are poorly placed to adjudicate national awards, especially in a sport with the geographical spread of baseball, when most of them work locally.
A sports writer’s job is to get stories – just as a detective’s job is to get criminals and a salesman’s job is to get orders.
Getting a story involves, in its basic form, watching a game, identifying something outstanding or, better, quirky on which to hang a story then gathering quotes from the principals to illustrate that story.
It’s just not a set-up that leads to an impartial overview on a national scale.
In my mind, Joe overcomes this difficulty by being a baseball fan first, second and third, a writer fourth, then a Kansas City writer fifth.
The best guys to give the voting rights to would be bookies . . . but that ain’t happening.
Damn, there are beaucoup comments on this live blog. I was just writing to let you know that my local store got The Machine in today, and I bought it right up. You must have at least one and a half full-time jobs writing for other publications, and yet you post here for free just about every damn day.
I would have bought your book just on g.p. and faith. I read your stuff and always enjoy it. And then, every so often, I finish an article and sit back and think about how you are just about the best sport writer since my boy David Halberstam. You have every journalist of every stripe beat, when it comes down to my little opinion.
Confession: I sometimes wince when I get to the comment section of this blog. You have some very eager fans that come here, and there are some pretty overwrought praises sung from time to time. I don’t know how I feel joining the chorus of hosannas, but here I am regardless.
I have never paid a dime towards you and yours even though I read just about everything you write (this crazy Internet, where is the money?). As often as I check in on this site I should buy a copy of your book for that alone. But why would I read everything you write unless I liked what I read? I could give two shits about the 1975 Cincinnati Reds, they truly mean nothing to me. But if they interest you enough to write an entire book about them, I dropped my $20 odd dollars because I bet you can make me interested.
Congratulations on your release, Joe, and thanks for all your work.
Off topic – the girl who spilled beer on the cameraman at Wed’s game was pretty hot.
I think Greinke deserves the Cy Young. He’s having an all-time great season. However, it’s annoying that one good start against the Red Sox and people are like, Shove it, take that. Maybe it’s deserved with people slighting Greinke for not having faced the Red Sox and Yankees when he had no control but I think the point is that a pitcher can shut down a great team once or even twice. Halladay has spun some extraordinary games against Tampa, Boston and New York. He’s thrown complete games against them all, with multiple shutouts. But in the course of facing the Red Sox three times, the Yankees five and Tampa Bay six, he’s got lit up too. It’s tough for a pitcher to shut down a good offense everytime when he sees them so frequently. And that’s going to end up hurting your ERA significantly. If Greinke had four rough games on his stat sheet, his ERA would still be excellent but not historic.
Mike in MN: Thanks for sharing that very revealing exchange with Reusse. Funny, I lived in Minneapolis and read his columns in the Strib for three years, and I don’t *remember* him as a blithering self-satisfied idiot… but maybe that’s only because I was comparing him to Sid Hartman.
Jason @118:
I am one who said that Gammons et al could shove it after the Boston game, and here is why: he and others made the ridiculous argument that Greinke’s Cy Young candidacy was thin because he had not pitched against the Red Sox or the Yankees, and further, they said that this one start was essentially the litmus test for his entire season.
So I said shove it after he shut them down for six innings. Why? Because I am a fan, and because sometimes fans are like that. Occasionally, when someone slights my team and my guys go out there and play well, I come back at the person with an obnoxious retort. I know it is odd behavior, and certainly not indicative of sports fans as a whole, but I guess I am just an outlier that way.
Seriously, you find it annoying that fans are acting like fans?
Also, it is absurd that a baseball observer/analyst would suggest that any one start out of 34 was determinative of a starter’s Cy Young candidacy. It is silliness, and it exposes a bias that supports shallow thinking and reactive commentary. So, yeah, I said shove it.
Maybe you think that Holliday should get some extra credit for pitching so many games against AL East opponents. Okay, fine. But Greinke has pitched against some prolific offenses this season — Anaheim, Toronto, Cleveland, Texas, Boston — and he has managed to survive quite well. Also, it isn’t as though he is pitching okay against lesser teams; he is pitching lights out against everyone. The guy has allowed four earned runs or more only four times this season! (In fairness, two of those games were against AL East opponents.)
So, yeah, why is one start against Boston so determinative of his Cy Young candidacy? That is what I was reacting too, this idea that having an historic season as an AL Central pitcher is less valuable than pitching well-but-not-great/epic/amazing as an AL East pitcher.
Like I said when I posted, it was a crude response, but it felt good to say. And though I don’t know what sort of fan you are, I suspect that at least once in your life you have responded to criticism of your team with an obnoxious comment.