They’re not saying Luke. They’re Booing.
Posted: August 31st, 2009 | Filed under: Baseball | 50 Comments »
I know I don’t have to watch the Royals play baseball anymore … but I really can’t help myself. And, just about every game I will see something I’ve never seen before.
And I just saw one of the stranger things I’ve seen. Runner on second (after a walk and stolen base) and Rajai Davis singled to right. The throw home should have been cut off — they had no chance of getting the runner — but it wasn’t. The run scored. Still Davis stayed at first … that is until the throw bounced off the catcher’s glove. Davis ran to second and Royals pitcher Luke Hochevar, who was backing up the play, got the ball and faked a throw to second base to get Davis to to go back.
And then — and I don’t know exactly how to describe this — Hochevar just put his head down and disappeared into daydream land. He just literally stopped paying any attention to the game. Davis could not believe it … he ran to third base. And Hochevar hardly even looked up. He just kept walking with his head down toward the mound. The only thing I could compare it to was that moment in Bad News Bears when Vic Morrow’s kid lets everyone go base to base while he keeps throwing the ball into his own glove.
This year, Luke Hochevar has had a complete game on 90 pitches, a 13-strikeout-zero-walk-game and a five-run inning sparked because he was looking at the ground while a disbelieving runner took third base. Fun!
I know bringing this up will lead a few people to mention Dayton Moore’s extension … but really these sorts of crazy things have been happening to the Royals since 1995.
Update: You would think that Hochevar play would be the most remarkable of the night. But I just saw Royals reliever John Bale snag a chopper and turn to throw to second to start a double play … and then, well, he threw it right into the ground about 20 feet right of second base. That does not describe the cartoonish nature of the throw, though. I guess the best way to imagine it is to think of what it would look like if an alien came from outer space and you told him to try and throw the baseball to second base. And then, just as the alien tried to throw it, you hit him on the head with a ball-peen hammer.
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How great would it have been if Billy Butler and Yuni tried to wrestle the ball from Luke while Teahen waited on 3rd for a ball that would never come.
Then, Hochevar walks over to Dayton Moore (who’s inexplicably standing at the top of the dugout steps) and drops the ball at his feet.
That Hochevar complete game (against Dusty Baker’s “Don’t clog the bases” Reds) was only 80 pitches for the 9 innings.
It’s all part of The Process.
Circle me, Dayton.
Just add it to the Kerry Robinson – Ken Harvey – Chip Ambres highlight reel.
For about a half second, I thought Hochevar was trying to bait the runner into going to third in order to try and get the out. And then I remembered I was watching the Royals.
50% – say terrible
34% – say Not OK
14% say OK
2% – What I voted
545 Votes
I mean as a Royals fan are you guys serious? Please Please find me anyone that is more qualified than Dayton Moore. Then, if by chance you do, will they ever be a general manager for the Royals? Honestly, David Glass was smart to lock him up long-term. He is the best that the Royals are going to find. Moore wants to turn this around and Glass just showed Moore that he is confident that he will.
Is it really worth firing Moore? How much instability do you want in Kansas City?
Come on guys. Got to have faith in the people that were initially hired to “turn this ship around.”
P.S. Moore did lock up the future Cy-Young winner for a few more years. That is great move.
Don’t forget about the rundown in which the runner was allowed to advance from 1st to 3rd…and promptly scored when the next pitch was blooped into center field
I was saying “Boo0-urns”
John W.: Are you serious? Any idiot would have tried to lock up Greinke. I want to write 3 pages about how bad DM is, but I’m so sick of rehashing how bad he is, that I’m not going to. I give up. If the Royals win a title with him at the helm it will be because they got lucky in the draft somehow. Montgomery is pitching like a demon.
We are fresh off the most disappointing season in Royals history – which is a feat in and of itself – and we want to reward the architect of it with a long-term extension? It would be one thing if his contract were due, but it isn’t.
I understand the cupboard was bare when he got here. I understand we hadn’t invested in the kind of player development that is absolutely essential for a small market team. And those kinds of mistakes for a generation are not going to fix themselves in three years.
So I am not among the chorus calling for his firing.
At the same time, what exactly do we have for three years worth of investments in the minors? There is not yet a player DMGM has drafter who has contributed to the major league club. There is not a player particularly close to contributing. So the very best grade you could give him is an incomplete right now.
And then you throw in the litany of absolute mistakes. The Guillen contract. The signings of Mahay, Farnsworth, and Cruz. The trade for Betancorpse, which was indefensible on the day it was made, and has only gotten worse since. The team has the largest payroll in history, and is absolutely hamstrung by the fact that so much of the money is tied to the worst players on the team. He has been close to a disaster at the major league level. I give him props for the Meche signing, and I give him credit for locking up Zack. But show me another good move? Explain to me how we are paying $16 million for a bullpen that is absolutely terrible, when the bullpen is basically the worst place on the team to spend a lot of money.
Again, I am not calling for him to be fired. I think we have to wait until we have a better sense of where Moose, Hosmer, and the boys drafted end up. But the early returns are not so hot, and certainly not so hot we should be rushing out to extend the contract.
When your GM completely rejects statistical analysis, it’s like he’s betting against the house on every trade he makes. Dayton will get lucky from time to time, but in the end he is going to lose a whole hell of a lot more than he is going to win.
Sincere thanks, Joe, for the ball-peen hammer line. I needed that belly laugh tonight.
@ John W. (#6):
“Please find me anyone that is more qualified than Dayton Moore. ”
- OK, that one is easy, there are any number of GMs or other front-office types who are either as qualified or more qualified than DM. Ironically, DM might have been more qualified when he got the job than he is after having to put “GM of the Royals, 2006-2009″.
“Then, if by chance you do, will they ever be a general manager for the Royals?”
- Yes. If the money is better, yes, of course. 95% of the time, at least – and I’m being generous to the 5% who may or may not value “winning”.
- How about Bill James? Or Rob Neyer? Or Joe P.? Or, hell, the Sports Guy? Or Rany? For literally $0, you could get one of those 5 to GM, and I would be at least 3 of them would do a better job.
That’s all. Accepting the triumph of the second best is a huge failure.
I was at the game tonight (with *maybe* 4,999 others). Watching the Hochever fiasco in person was a sight to behold and then the Royals doubled down with Bale’s throw. I’m an A’s fan / season ticket holder who now has much more empathy for the plight of Joe.
And please explain how Yuni transforms into an all-star at the Oakland-Alameda County Stadium. I need to check the numbers, but it seems like he kills the A’s at both the plate and in the field (well, in the two Royals games I attended).
No lie, earlier this evening I was waiting at the local pub for my wife to get off work, watching the A’s/Royals game while reading Joe’s long (3300+) entry on the Royals being fairly unfit for human consumption, when the Hochevar 3b play happened. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury: Exhibit A. I felt like I was touched by an angel — serendipity & whatnot. My wife walked in a few minutes later and I had to explain to her why I’m sitting by myself at the bar, giggling. Then, we went out to dinner, inadvertently denying us both the pleasure of seeing the Bale play. Ah, what rotten timing. Hopefully it’s on the internet, somewhere.
Joe, you forgot to mention that the bases were juiced on Bale’s attempted double-play. More inexplicable than the throw into center field is why he didn’t just come home to start the 1-2-3 double play instead.
“Please Please find me anyone that is more qualified than Dayton Moore.”
I nominate anyone who doesn’t pursue players based solely on how they performed against the Atlanta Braves. Gil Meche’s lowest ERA? Against the Braves. Betancourt’s highest OPS? Against the Braves. Jacobs’ most home runs? Against the Braves. Olivo’s most homers? Also against the Braves. Willie Bloomquist has an OPS of 1.100 against the Braves. Coco Crisp has an OPS of 1.016 against the Braves. There are only four teams that Jose Guillen has a better OPS against than the Braves. Kyle Farnsworth actually sucked when facing the Braves, but the lowest ERA he’s ever had? Yeah, that was while pitching FOR the Braves. Horacio Ramirez had few highlights in his big league career, but they all came with the Atlanta Braves, too.
So my suggestion is we hire the first candidate who can give an appropriate answer to the question, “How much weight should we put in small samples?” (This presumes, of course, that there is anyone in the Royals organization who is qualified to identify the appropriate answer.)
Um, you want someone more qualified? The Royals already have Mike Arbuckle who was an assistant GM of the Phillies last year and only came here because he was passed over for the job there. He’s got a world series ring, doesn’t that make him pretty qualified?
Honestly though, I really am not one of the people calling for Dayton’s head on a plate, I just question the timing of this. I understand that maybe Glass was thinking he trusts Dayton and the “process” and maybe he was thinking this gives him a chance to lock him up while his value is low. But since ultimately a GM is valued based on his record, there is essentially no way his value could increase between now and next April. Waiting until the beginning of next season would give Glass the added advantage of evaluating Dayton’s offseason moves. Right now you can really only point to three postives for Dayton; locking up Greinke, locking up Soria, and signing Meche. Everything else has been pretty close to what an alien would do if you appointed him as GM right after you hit him on the head with a ball-peen hammer.
At least the Chiefs are trying to win. They canned Peterson and Edwards and hired the most sought-after front office mind in the league to run the show. Meanwhile the Royals give a long contract extension to the guy who’s taken the highest payroll they’ve ever had and turned the team into a total joke.
Joe, how about writing more about the Chiefs rather than the Royals, since they’re at least trying to win now?
Anyone who has any understanding of fangraphs, and would use said site to make decisions would be a better GM than Dayton Moore.
It amazes me everyday that someone traded for Yuni. And my mind pretty much literally cannot comprehend that the M’s were given prospects in return.
Wow, they extended Moore? I don’t get this whole “accountabilty” thing people talk about so much….
John W. – Have faith in these people? Like we did with Baird? Like we did for 20 years with Carl Peterson? You have faith, I want to see SOME results. I was still giving him the benefit of the doubt after last year, but every move he made since then has failed horribly, and many of them were doomed to fail before they were made.
Sorry, but I can’t have faith in the people hired to right the ship as they hack it to pieces.
Great Headline Joe. My buddy and I are die hard Bengals fans and for years he would say, “The crowd isn’t booing, they’re chanting Klingler, Klingler.”
“How about Bill James? Or Rob Neyer? Or Joe P.? Or, hell, the Sports Guy? Or Rany? For literally $0, you could get one of those 5 to GM, and I would be at least 3 of them would do a better job.”
You can’t possibly believe this. 5 people who have absolutely no experience building a roster or even doing something so simple as determining how much the popcorn should be would emphatically NOT be better than even the worst GM. You really think all it takes is the url of Baseball Prospectus and FanGraphs to build a team?
And did you really just add the Sports Guy in there? He of the ever-shifting corollaries? If you really want to pin your divisional hopes on whether your team can reverse the Dead Man Walking Double Stomach Punch Curse of Heidi Montag, I’ll take Dayton Moore.
How quickly we forget that this team was billed as the trendy pick to win the AL Central. Oh, how we forget that even the national pundits were selecting our Royals as the team to emerge from the down Central, division winners. Oh yes, this season took an indescribable turn for the worse in late May. And who shoulders the blame for lazy, unmotivated and seemingly ignorant or unconcerned players? The General Manager? I thought he was the guy that puts the team together? You know, that team that was billed to take the AL Central? I didn’t realize he was in the dugout each day with these guys? Thought there was someone else that was supposed to keep these guys up and focused for the long, grueling season? You know? The COACH!! Hillman is the one here that needs to be let go.
I think Dayton Moore is as qualified as any other GM.
I also think he was already under contract until 2011. This is 2009.
Dayton Moore is not Zach Greinke. He wasn’t going to jump ship or refuse to negotiate as 2011 got closer.
That’s why it is Not OK. Not quite Terrible, but definitely Not OK.
@Xavier (#24):
First of all, do you think Dayton Moore determines how much the popcorn should cost at Kauffman Stadium? Actually, maybe he does – it would help explain his woeful performance as a GM thus far. Too much time determining the ideal price of popcorn, and too little time determining whether a player is any good or not. Of course, given Moore’s evident disdain for advanced statistics, generally poor signings, and love for all things Brave, he would probably just use Atlanta’s price of popcorn, but sell popcorn that is well past its best-before date.
Second, no, I don’t think all it takes is BP and Fangraphs to build a team – but it certainly does take a working knowledge of their respective URLs, and perhaps a basic understanding of how those crazy statistics work. So I think I might be ahead of Moore in that regard.
Third, please provide some evidence that Moore has valuable experience building a roster. Thus far (and I am aware it might take another couple years for the minors to bear fruit – or it might never happen) Moore has shown a total inability to construct a roster capable of winning. In fact, Moore might have made the Royals roster worse through his moves. So yeah, I actually possibly believe that someone like, say, Bill James, who has no experience building a roster (Red Sox aside – but they suck, right?) would do a better job than Moore.
Fourth, and finally, what do the Royals have to lose? This relates to what Joe has been talking about regarding “professionalism”. The Royals suck. Moore is building a crappy “professional” team. Why not hire an “unprofessional” GM who might do “unprofessional” things, that might work? They might not, of course, but I bet it wouldn’t go any worse than the current attempt.
Wow – I feel for you Royals fans except that given how bad they are and how terribly they are currently playing, I could almost get enjoyment watching a few Royals games to wait for the next “alien/ball-peen hammer incident!” It almost sounds like more fun than watching an otherwise unimportant game between two .500 clubs at this point.
Now that the rosters have expanded (Happy September, everyone) , can we expect more of this or will some AA and AAA nobodies turn this club around?
The piling on, it has begun. Let me show you it. (And no, it’s not a self-link.)
Speaking of Stomach Punches, there goes Joe again with the Hochevar brain fart – immediately I went back to young David Cone covering first, not getting the call, and then flipping out on the umpire while BOTH the other runners came in to score.
Come to think of it, that was against the Braves – maybe GMDM should sign Coney out of the broadcast booth and slot him into the rotation. He was a Royal before, right? Hometown discount!
As per Sports Guy – he’s primarily an entertainment writer, only with sports as his medium rather than just pop culture. I think he’d be much better as a basketball GM (witness his partially unserious bid to take over the Milwaukee Bucks). He’s got a little bit too much of a romantic side for baseball, and his team would be heavy on grit and heart and “band of idiots,” rather than a completely clear-eyed evaluation of talent-per-dollar.
Then again, I can’t see a team like that being as inexplicable as the ‘09 Royals. They would at least be fun to watch and root for, even if they weren’t that much better of a ball club.
I just watched the clip at MLB.com–that Hochaver play was amazing. First of all, Davis has to be crazy to take third on that play–999 times out of 1000 he gets thrown out by 10 feet. Amazingly, Hochaver never looked up, even after Davis went to third.
The best part of the clip, though, was the look of the Royal’s manager in the dugout after the play.
I’d like to see the Royals run by referendum. There’d still be a nominal GM to sort of keep the ship in order day-to-day, but major decisions would have to be approved by fan vote. The Mariners are dangling Yuni? Vote it down! A corner outfielder with amazing skill in out-making wants a big contract? Vote it down! Extension for young superstar? Vote it up! There’s a sunglasses shortage? Appropriate some funds! The possibilities are endless. How about a daily “make a trade offer to Omar Minaya” contest?
Hey, a “wisdom of the masses” management model couldn’t be that much worse than the current situation.
Joe, you’ve got the wrong perspective. But I don’t blame you, the Royals have only been atrocious for 10-15 years or so. When you get past the 20 year milestone, you’ll realize how comical the team is and what joy their mishaps bring you. You can make bold predictions like, “One of their coaches will get arrested for being naked at a Wendy’s drive-thru” and “I don’t think they’ll win a game at all this year” and have them come true. This is what us Detroit Lions fans have been doing for years now. It’s a laugh riot, let me tell you.
We have video of these two amazing moments.
Luke’s inattention here and Bale’s throw here. Incredible.
Later in the game, the A’s pulled the old little league tactic of the delayed double steal with runners on first and third, with the trailing runner intentionally trying to get into a run-down. I don’t know how often major league managers try to pull that play off, but it does not seem to be the kind of thing most of them would try very regularly against an MLB team unless they had absolutely lost all respect for the opposing defense. So I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at all that the A’s put the play on. The Royals managed to not embarrass themselves that time, although the trailing runner was able to make it to third.
If we hired Demi Moore to be the GM, we won’t have to change all those DMGMs all over the place, and we would get back to the front of Sports Center.
First female GM–heck, the President would start wearing our jacket!
The Royals had a pitcher and a batter both win AL Player-of-the-Week awards in August.
For the month, the team won a mere 10 games.
If I had a ball-peen hammer…
Seriously people, this team is fine.
We have an ace pitcher in Greinke, and we have–
It’s even worse… Luke’s complete game was on 80* pitches. Still not sure how that happened.
Poor Dusty Baker.
Chasing our tail.
It’s understandable that people don’t like the extension. But everyone that seriously followed this team knew that it would take more than 3 years to rebuild the farm system, which is what Moore’s main job is. They were starting from scratch. Before this year, I believe most people thought we were headed in the right direction. At the beginning of this year, Moore saw what he had in starting pitching & closer and thought he was only a couple of guys from having a competitive team. Not a playoff team, but a competitive team. But the team was paper thin in depth and between injuries & players underperforming the team crashed and burned. It happens to teams every year (see Mets & Cubs). After what we’ve witnessed over the last 14 years, we had no right to think that our misery would suddenly disappear in one off-season after signing the likes of Crisp, Jacobs, Farnsworth and Bloomquist. LOL. Those fans were kidding themselves. So Moore miscalculated on the bullpen & rolled the dice on Crisp & Jacobs and came up snake eyes. It happens. It can’t happen again. That is the problem. It will happen again. A season like this happens to every GM. Except that teams with owners that spend money get over it & move on. They don’t fold up shop like Glass is going to do over the next few years and curb spending at the major league level. They pick themselve up, dust off and realize this is the cost of doing business in the Majors in the 21st century.
Signing Moore to an extension is simply the cost of doing business in the MLB. The Royals had to do this. They can’t have a lame-duck GM running things next year. Get it done and get on with the ‘process.’
Now what is the ‘process?’ It’s simple. Rebuild entirely through the minors and forget the major league club for the next 3-5 years. What does it mean? It means WAITING and watching last nights horrific performance for another 3-5 years while we hope the ‘process’ produces major league talent to populate the club with enough position players to compete. Oh, and it also means that they TRADE Greinke & Soria because Glass won’t re-sign them and the ‘process’ won’t be complete before their contracts come due. Moore will have to trade them both by the trade deadline in 2011 (next year would make more sense) at the latest in order to have any leverage at all. Can’t have another Beltran last ditch effort that nets a bunch of utility castoffs (Teahen, Buck & Wood).
Glass still needs to support his GM. Good for Glass that he has NOW (only 10 years later) joined the rest of MLB in the 21st century by spending money on the minor league system. But if Moore doesn’t miraculously resurrect a system that was destroyed by over a decade of owner neglect in 5 MORE YEARS then he gets canned and then what? Glass starts over with a new GM and a new 5 year plan to rebuild the minors, meanwhile the major league club continues to field re-treads, cast-offs & minor leaguers.
Isn’t the endgame obvious?
Re: Hochevar play
Olivo completely checked out too. Catchers are supposed to keep tabs on everything. He could have called time since he was closest to an ump, and since catchers do that a lot more anyway. He completely turns his back and kicks the dirt while Hochevar mopes. As Davis takes a lead and waits for Hochevar to do something, why isn’t the short stop also yelling for Hochevar to pay attention?
Team breakdown and malaise.
Jun 6, 2006 … Hochevar said he was “ecstatic” Kansas City picked him. “I’m ready to put my head down and work my tail off for the Kansas City Royals,” …
Well, the guy put his head down. He told us he would. We should have seen it coming.
@ Wayne:
I’m with you!
How hard is it to determine the price of popcorn and be a GM? All you do is price the popcorn really low but with a high salt content, then you price your drinks really high. Or you look at the thought bubbles that pop over people’s heads after they get popcorn from your concession stand. That is what I used to do when I ran a theme park.
Thanks for the links to the vids Alex. In the Bale video, after he makes the nice catch, you can see the catcher stand to recieve the catch only to throw his hands up in disgust when he sees Bale turn and throw a fart to nowhere-ville. HAHAHA!! Comic genius is that play!
The endgame IS obvious to me, David Glass is pulling a ” Major League” and moving the team to Bentonville so he can re brand them as the Wal Mart Royals.
Here’s the positive I take from this. Hochevar will *never* again fail to call time when backing up home plate. He will learn this lesson in a virtually meaningless game. Five years from now, when the Royals make their big push to save Moore’s job, it will make a difference.
Kevin (43) – Roller Coaster Tycoon reference FTW. Nice.
The Dayton Moore contract is indefenisble. I’ll buy that maybe he’s just trying to build a farm system and waiting for that to bloom, but it’s pretty clear from his wheelings-and-dealings this year that he has no idea of the importance of defense and OBP. He’s signed up a crew of players who don’t field AT ALL and don’t get on base. You’d think if he had 1/2 a bit of baseball sense he’d at least dig up a bunch of guys who can really catch the ball or draw a bunch of walks or something just to survive until the kids are ready. You’d think…
[...] to play for. There’d be excitement, or desperation at least, in Kansas City, instead of apathy. Pittsburgh wouldn’t be selling off all their semi-competent players, they’d be struggling to [...]
“But everyone that seriously followed this team knew that it would take more than 3 years to rebuild the farm system, which is what Moore’s main job is. They were starting from scratch.”
The fatal flaw in this theory? To build a better farm system, you have to be able to recognize talent. Moore has more then shown he is incapable of doing that with regard to established ML players – what makes you think he will be able to on high-school/college level players?
But put it this way – if I have 10 wrecks a year driving my old Ford pickup, are you really going to give me the keys to your RV? Didnt think so.
“Glass still needs to support his GM.”
To this, I can only say – Glass did support his GM. Moore was signed through 2011. Thats 5 years to evaluate his performance, and another 2 years from now which would factor in a possible extension over the 2011 offseason.
To make a decision now, when results have initially been poor and just over half the body of work is visible, shows merely blind faith. There was no need for an extension, Moore wasnt going anywhere. And there were no grounds for an extension, things are at an all-time low.
But lets put it this way. Say you buy 5 bags of magic beans. Instructions say to plant one bag yearly, and five years after planting you should have a plant in the early stages of its adult life. You take your 5 bags and plant the first. A year later, there is no signs of activity on the first, but you plant the second next to it. Another year passes and you plant the third. At this time you notice the first years bag is starting to show some very small signs of green sprouts. The second years bag shows no signs of activity. The third of course was just planted, and you have two unused bags still in storage.
Do you then go back and buy three more bags of the magic beans despite the fact you have two unused sacks and no real results shown on the three you planted? Didnt think so.