Breaking Point
Posted: August 24th, 2009 | Filed under: Baseball | 72 Comments »
Lots more to say on this as the week goes on … but something crystalized for me while watching the Kansas City Royals lose to Cleveland tonight. And it is something a bit surprising for me. I have seen a lot of bad baseball since coming to Kansas City in 1996. I have seen a 19-game losing streak, and players head for the dugout while a fly ball were still in mid-air and a centerfielder climb the wall on a ground-rule double that bounced 5 feet in front of him. I have seen a team so bad they did not have a single starter with an ERA lower than 5.00. I have seen a team so bad they started someone no one ever heard of — including players on the team — at Yankee Stadium. I have seen a team so bad that the first baseman simply quit in the middle of the year.
So I say this while knowing precisely what the words mean …
This is the worst Kansas City Royals team I have ever seen.
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Wow. That’s just brutal. And totally accurate.
I’m 27 and have been a Royals’ fan since I was able to be a fan of any team. I’ve dealt with the ridicule of friends and classmates and teammates about why I would choose to stand by a team that’s as bad as this one for the entirety of my fandum. Only now I’ve given up. I haven’t watched a game or highlight in three weeks. I only know the scores and to me it’s all I need to know. And now, the Royals’ organization wants to patronize me by telling me to “trust the process.” The Royals’ want to talk down to me like I don’t understand baseball because I think getting on base is a slightly important trait.
This is the worst team ever. And it’s pushing a lot of us die-hards away.
It’s time we had some good news, breaking from a terribly built and managed team.
Joe, as absolutely off-the-charts loony as this sounds, Billy Butler may be a Hall of Famer. And not just the pie in the sky “I hope this guy turns out” kind of enthusiasm that we as Royals fans have had to gush on everyone from Mark Sweeney to Mark Quinn to Aaron Guiel to Shane Costa to Kila Ka’aihue, but actual legitimate production from a real-life Royals player.
I normalized some stats on doubles for year and park and projected Butler’s two-baggers for the rest of the season (though those numbers are a few days old at this point), and compared it to every player since 1940 in their age 23 season or before.
http://grittyandclutch.blogspot.com/2009/08/billy-butler-hall-of-famer.html
If you don’t want to read it (understandable, I’m not here to shill), I’ll give you the short version.
He finishes behind Rusty Staub, Robin Yount, Fred Lynn in 1975 and two World War 2 seasons of Stan Musial. And no one else.
He finishes just ahead of Jack Clark, Vada Pinson and Cal Ripken Jr.
If Billy’s equivalent to the worst among them, we’ve got a superstar.
And I had such high hopes for Trey Hillman..seriously, he took the Japanese-baseball version of the Royals (the Nippon Ham Fighters) and won a championship with them..managing in another language and culture! Are the Royals just cursed?
The only reason this team won’t lose as much as the 2005 squad (maybe) is better pitching. That’s the one bright spot. Otherwise…yeah. They suck.
Man, that’s a high bar to clear. I’m sure you’re going to cover all this soon, but I had to get this off my chest. Here’s the lineup for your 2004 Kansas City Royals. Personally, I hated this team more than any sane person should.
C John Buck/Benito Santiago
1B Ken Harvey
2B Tony Graffanino/Relaford
SS Angel Berroa
3B Joe Randa
LF Dee Brown
CF David DeJesus/Carlos Beltran
RF Abraham Nunez/Matt Stairs
DH Mike Sweeney
SP Darrell May*
SP Brian Anderson*
SP Jimmy Gobble*
SP Zack Greinke
SP Mike Wood
Team Hitting:
2004: .260/.322/.397
85 OPS+
2009: .255/.313/.400
88 OPS+
Team Pitching:
2004: ERA/WHIP: 5.16/1.52
92 ERA+
2009: ERA/WHIP: 4.80/1.45
91 ERA+
That team broke my spirit.
God this is depressing.
Mate, its the late arvo here in Sydney and that is the funniest thing I have read all day long. Sorry your team is such a shambles, but I do remember the Brett, Otis, McRae years; so keep the faith.
The trouble with this team isn’t the poor performance, its the poor performance, plus the sucker punch that was April and May plus the inability of this team to move on and give young guys a shot, PLUS the loss of any remaining faith in GMDM to accurately evaluate major league players, PLUS PLUS the worry that if GMDM fails that the Glasses will clam up with the money and reins and send this team back to the dark ages.
I mean, lets face it, in 2004 we gave up hope after like a month, in 2006 there really was never any hope to begin with.
This team is really that pitiful isnt it. I mean, on any given day they might field a lineup of
.209/.275/.419 – Buck – C
.235/.307/.427 – Jacobs – 1B
.260/.302/.358 – Bloomquest – 2B
.195/.232/.347 – Betancourt – SS
.281/.336/.428 – Teahen – 3B
.270/.342/.431 – DeJesus – LF
.246/.329/.338 – Maier – CF
.233/.250/.233 – Anderson – RF
.240/.271/.446 – Olivo – DH
and they got really close to doing it on the 18th, with only Butler and Callaspo replacing Anderson and Olivo! (both started the day prior instead) Plus, they have a 70 million dollar payroll (21st highest of the 30 clubs), so it isnt like it’s just because they are a horribly cheap franchise.
You know what might be the worst thing to happen over then entire 2009 season though? That 18-11 star over the first 30 days. It got press to the point it might be thought of as the “real” performance by some in the front office. It could be one of those “that is what we are capable of” type situations.
To me the worst thing is that we are almost to September 1st and we don’t know ANYTHING more about any possible up & coming players-Kila et al. Other than Roman Colon can’t pitch. (and Trey doesn’t realize that)
I wonder if there has ever been a club playing this badly that the management didn’t try to see if they had anything better. Or trade for prospects at the break, or anything other than say “Hey, this team started 18-11, so they have talent, and their manager is OK. That 29-66 record over the next 95 games is a fluke. Also Yuni is great, I don’t care if I am the only guy in the free world that thinks so!”
Jose Guillen will be back to suck up more at bats just in time for the September callups to ride the bench for a month. We had a couple of guys contribute to the 18-8 September last year. They have not been back.
One of my new favorite games is “Yeah, he would bat cleanup for the Royals.” Where I look at other teams, and identify players that were they to play for KC, would bat cleanup. Some of the “winners”:
Casey Kotchman
Alexi Ramirez
Mike Cameron
Pat Burrell
Not saying these guys are horrible, just that in KC they would be the centerpiece and the entire offense would be built around them. And that’s why this team is going to finish with 103 loses and the worst record in baseball.
Dayton Moore is the biggest BUST ever in Royals History…This is one of the worst bullpens of all time..
I guess we couldn’t use Affeldt- traded for Shealy, JP Howell- traded for Gathright, Nunez- for Jacobs, cause we need 50 first baseman, and Ramon Ramirez for Coco..Howell and Nunez are currently closing for their teams. Jacobs is platooning, and Joey is in the minors..Also, love to see the PROCESS includes drafting kids who can’t hit in A ball…
but on a side note. 2010 season ticket deposits are being accepted.
Ah but have they given you the kick in the jewels by announcing next year’s tickets are on sale, but at an increased price?
I live in Maple Leaf country and they continually do that to their fans after putting out a bad product year after year.
Just out of curiosity, who was the SP at Yankee Stadium that was unknown by the Royals? Was Jeff King the 1B that quit?
The Mets are giving your Royals a run, guys. Of course, that’s because the Mets can’t go 48 hours without an injury (Santana yesterday), and their minor-league system would make Rany weep with sadness and prompt another 3-part series comparing Double-A talent that just doesn’t exist.
The Royals did giv you a good six weeks to start the season, and Zach Greinke had a great first half. Imagine if they were just adequate the first six weeks and Greinke were just good instead of fantastic.
At least Billy Butler is fun to watch hit. The only Met that is fun to watch anymore is Keith Hernandez. And he’s in the broadcast booth.
Not the worst collection of players ever assembled here, but yes, the worst team.
eduardo villacis
And yet…the Royals swept the Reds.
I do feel for Royals fans but lets face it, you signed up for a loser.
Imagine being a Mets fan with the big market resources and high hopes every year only to see them literally falling on their faces and losing in the worst imaginable ways.
At least Baird can claim poverty when forming a bad team. Omar Minaya is just a retard.
[...] What does Joe Posnanski think of this year’s Kansas City Royals team? Emotion aside… [Joe Posnanski/JoeBlog] [...]
Just move the team to another city so Kansas City is not tarnished with the taint of this team’s ineptitude…at least the ownership is not from KC. Our last owner that lived here was pretty successful.
Hey David Glass, move them to NW Ar-Kansas and have them represent that part of the country and we will stump for our own team. It is to the point that losing MLB is preferable than having your city ridiculed as a laughingstock every night on Sportscenter!
Well, at least the 2009 team didn’t make All-Stars out of luminaries like Ken Harvey or Mark Redman. That’s something, right?
…right?
Hey Joe, what was the deal with Soria warming up last night? The guys on TV said something about Meche going out there to start the inning then Hillman made the switch with Soria only getting half his warm up time.
As much as I hated Buddy Bell, at least he didn’t do things like that.
I blame Bill Simmons for making the Royals a sleeper pick at the beginning of the year…
Can someone cheer me up with a profile of that great high school (and presumed #1 overall draft pick) player that Joe keeps mentioning? If the Royals keep playing .200 baseball down the stretch, even the hapless Nats will be unable to keep from passing us in the hunt for the #1 pick.
That’s it, I’m calling it. Greinke is pitching a no-hitter tonight. Wait and see. We need something.
I’m just afraid the Royals will have the worst record in baseball and will have the number one pick in the draft but won’t be willing to dish out the $15 million signing bonus Bryce Harper will demand.
Harper won’t require $15 million to sign. He’s a high schooler who has shown significant weaknesses lately.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s still wildly powerful with a tremendous upside, but he’s absolutely not in the class of Strasburg, a major league ready pitcher who might’ve been the best college pitcher ever.
The Royals and pro wrestling seem to have one thing in common – the outcome has already been determined. But at least with pro wrestling I don’t know what that outcome is.
@29 Sweatpants
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Harvey even a YOUNG high schooler? As in, I seem to recall him being young for his class, though I might just be fuzzy on the age/math. If that is the case, then if I would be even more wary of projecting a kid that young at any position, much less catcher, to be great. In the history of the draft, the Joe Mauers are very much in the minority.
Even my Big John Mayberry bobblehead is hanging its head in shame.
The Nats aren’t too hapless anymore. Their starting lineup is solid even with the starting catcher out and RF and 2B underperforming. With Strasburg and Storen coming at some point next year, Kasten is even talking about picking up a veteran third starter type for 2010. They might compete in that division behind Philly, they’ve been 16-14 in the last 30 despite Justin Zimmermann getting hurt and Lannan wearing down.
For me, this is the year that hope died. I’ve always been optimistic in the spring, without fail. But, I think I’m out, in terms of hope. It’s hard for me to imagine the Royals ever, and I mean ever, being good again, being respectable again. I’m still a Royals fan, always will be. But I don’t think I can hope for the future, hope for a good team again. I’m too tired of getting my heart broken, too tired of looking like a sap. This roller coaster of hope and failure has finally made me too sick to keep riding. I hope I’m wrong about their future. But, then again, hope is dead to me in KC.
Say it ain’t so, Joe . . .
The worst thing the Royals ever did was give Jose Guillen 13 Million a year. I mean, GOD why would you give a 33 year old player 13 Million??!! especially with his steroid reputation..knowing he probably had to get off the juice because of stricter enforcement policies. The Royals could have easily spread that 13 million around and produced a much better team. How would you like to be Zack Greinke or Soria and know that a guy that doesn’t even play the game over half the freaking season is getting paid FIVE TIMES more than you?
Pathetic. Criminally pathetic. Just plain abysmal decision making by both Dayton and Glass. Put a monkey in charge of the Royals finances and they probably wouldn’t lose 100 games ever again.
@13: Lezcano — excellent point, and there is no other word to use with Moore but BUST.
Dayton Moore rolled the dice that he could turn an asset, his bullpen arms, into offense while at the same time restocking the bullpen.
Failed and failed. It was a laudable move, and I don’t criticize the decision to try but it is obvious the move has blown up in his face.
Through May 7 – 18-11
May 8-May 31 – 5-16
June – 10-16
July – 7-19
August – 7-15
vs. NL – 8-10
vs. AL through May 7 – 18-11
vs. AL since May 7 – 21-56 (.273)
Yeah, wow, when we get depressed in MN over wasting Mauer and Morneau in their prime by not having any pitching, people on our boards always say it could be worse, we could be KC fans.
From afar, it doesn’t even look like there are young players that could grow with this team. Taking that middle road, of signing mediocre old guys, while not having many young guys that are great, makes no sense for a team. They need to seriously tank for a couple of years (yeah, I know they have), cut their payroll way back, save the money for two years, and then sign a couple of high price guys with to high signing bonus, medium annual salary contracts.
But, for some reason, teams don’t do that.
KC seems to be in the worst place possible, not good, no great prospects, no good manager, an arrogant GM who is CONVINCED his way is the only way…..just not pretty.
Today’s dystopic post reads like a negative image of the “I Have a Dream” speech mashed with Dylan’s “It’s A Hard Rain’s A-Gonna Fall.” If there is baseball played in Hell, the damned will indeed be forced to watch the 2009 KC Royals playing for EVER.
Hey Dayton, have Hosmer’s glasses arrived yet?
I think the worst thing about it is there is no hope for better days. As long as Glass owns this team they will continue to flounder. I could at least remain a fan if they had any semblance of being a legitimate Major League caliber team, but that is no longer the case. Every single move they make goes wrong. Every time, without fail. From a model franchise to laughingstock, that is going to be the Glass/Moore/Hillman legacy. Tell me I am wrong.
[...] wit: The Kids of Kauffman fell 30 games below .500, Joe Posnanski called them the worst Royals team he’s ever seen and their historic decade of ineptitude was turned into a national talking [...]
[...] wit: The Kids of Kauffman fell 30 games below .500, Joe Posnanski called them the worst Royals team he’s ever seen and their historic decade of ineptitude was turned into a national talking [...]
Statistically, the 2004 team has a slightly worse total WAR compared to the 2009 team YTD (17.9 to 18.1), but take out Greinke’s personal improvement (2.2 to 6.7) and the 2009 team is significantly worse and would be easily the worst in franchise history.
I agree with the person who said this is not the worst cast of players ever, but it’s definitely the worst team. Poor roster construction and mismanagement has rendered the “team” to perform far under the value of the sum of its parts.
[...] wit: The Kids of Kauffman fell 30 games below .500, Joe Posnanski called them the worst Royals team he’s ever seen and their historic decade of ineptitude was turned into a national talking [...]
Remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry tells George: “if every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right.”? George then begins to do the complete opposite of what he thinks he should do, and his life begins to improve. Maybe Dayton and Trey should consider trying this. It couldn’t hurt…….
I got to go to one game at Yankee Stadium in my life. It was May 1, 2004. Eduardo Villacis started for the Royals.
What a waste.
A 40 year old Ruben Sierra hit 2 HR off us, including a grand slam. Simply stunning.
I think Hosmer’s glasses were intercepted by Todd Haley and given to Dwayne Bowe.
This is also the worst base running team. David Dejesus is absolutely the worst. And where did the bullpen pitchers learn to field? I’ve seen my grandson’s team play better defense and they are only 7 yrs old.
some of these guys don’t belong i the majors. And finally,
trey
hillman is a very poor manager when it comes to a pitching staff. He has the amazing ability to leave a pitcher in one too many batters. You’d think he’d have learned by now.
I posted this in your previous Royals post, but it bears repeating. Down 9-6 in the 9th last night with nobody out and men on 1st and 3rd, the Royals defense played at double-play depth. In other words, they were conceding the 10th run. In other words, they were content to enter the bottom of the 9th down 4 runs instead of 3. I know they’re in last place and they were going to lose the game regardless, but shouldn’t the manager at least pretend he’s trying to win?
I finally gave up after all these years. It hurts deep and I don’t get it. You would think that just once things would be in alignment to at least compete late. I really thought this would be different.
Maybe Wilmington could have Eyeglasses Night. If your prescription matches Hosmer’s you win season tickets or something.
I think you should take a few weeks off of Royals baseball if you can. No good can come of following the Royals right now, it can only cause heartbreak:-(.
The LAST thing the royals need next year is a 16 year old, $15M crap shoot–have we not learned that high school players wind up being…high school players!!
This guy might be the next A-Rod—in 3-5 years…of course by then he will be gone..more likely he will be the next Mike Moustakis.
How can Petro still bag on Glass and give kudo’s to Moore?? Dayton’s baseball “respect” was based on his POTENTIAL–the past 2 years of PERFORMANCE makes him head and shoulders with Tony Pena Jr!!
Trey, Jacobs, Gathright, Horatio, Kyle, Waechter, Wright, Colon, Guillen, Pena Jr., Yuni, the $8M catcher duo of Buck/Olivo,…. On the positive side..Meche.
The 2009 Royals are without a doubt the worst offensive Royals team and the most disappointing Royals team of all time…
…but I think I still have to give the title of worst Royals team of all time to 2005.
And yeah, Jeff King was the player who retired seemingly out of nowhere in 1999. The funny thing was that at the time the ‘99 Royals were still a respectable 21-19. Then they took their usual late-season swoon to be at 49-76 through August 24.
Hmm…the 2009 Royals were also 21-19 forty games into the season, and now they’re at 47-77, just 1.5 games behind the team from 10 years ago. There seems to be a lot of similarities between the 1999 team and the 2009 team in terms of overall performance…but at least the ‘99 team had Carlos Beltran, Johnny Damon, and Jermaine Dye.
Yeah, it’s not that they’re a terrible team at one aspect of the game.
They are just BAD at everything. Banny can’t keep it together, I think Meche is starting to lose hope, Greinke too, and beside DeJesus I don’t see one player I’d take as a starter on another major league ball club.
Royals need to pull a good trade off next year and send a ton of payroll away. Meche, Greinke, Soria, Gordon, Jacobs, Butler, all away for nothing but offensive prospects. Work on scoring runs consistently and you can win ugly. On top of the normal losing ugly.
Breaking point? Easy for you to say, now, SI Joe.
Is there such a thing as fan abuse?
15 K’s!
I realize it’s early, but I’d be very interested in reading your thoughts on Zack’s shot at a Cy Young. He’s currently 8th (!!) in Bill James’ Cy Young Predictor, but I’m not sure if that has yet figured in the statistics from tonight’s start. What standard statistics would he need to reach to convince old baseball writers to vote for him?
Agreed, Joe.
This has been the most disappointing Royals season I can ever remember. It’s real hard to watch, but I still manage to see a few games because of hope for the future.
And I know this is off topic, but does anyone know a really good website for baseball statistics? MLB.com’s stats website isn’t really cutting it for me.
These are the new Royals and they’re pathetic. However, the stadium is back to being by far the best in the majors. Remember, 2 or 3 months ago everyone was sure they had turned the corner, it just didn’t happen. Once they started playing bad it snowballed from there. I don’t care who you are if you start losing it demoralizes you to the point you don’t care anymore. It’s so depressing. Get rid of Jose Guillen and a couple of other players and next year could be a breakout year. Who really cares if we finish one game out of the playoff race or 30? I certainly don’t.
Two thoughts:
1) Joe’s post doesn’t really seem worthy of him – it’s just a gut emotional reaction of the type that, well, of the type that you’d expect to see from the comments section of a blog. There’s nothing to back it up, at all.
2) I grew up in Atlanta, and my formative years from the age of 10 to 16 – which is the time of one’s life when sports probably loom larger in one’s consciousness than ever – were spent following and rooting for the Braves of 1984-1990. They were AWFUL. They did pretty much everything the Royals are currently doing. Terrible personnel decisions. Laughable managers. Ted Turner was a joke of an owner. SI did a cover story on “Losersville” (or a similarly apt title), taking about the Atlanta sports scene, and the Braves were at the heart of that. And yet, in 1991 everything changed: I was at the stadium when the Braves threw a no-hitter, and I was there when they clinched the NL West pennant, and for 15 years we were the class of the National League. So no matter how bad things look for the Royals, it’s always possible that things may get better at some point. They may even get much, much better. I wouldn’t bet on it happening, but the point is that it *can* happen.
“Meche, Greinke, Soria, Gordon, Jacobs, Butler, all away for nothing but offensive prospects. ”
So, you want to trade a potential Cy Young winner, a pretty damn good closer and a guy who is finally starting the hit the ball like we thought he could for “prospects”?
Wow….
Well, the Royals have finally given up on finding a pair of glasses for Hosmer. He’s now scheduled for Lasik on Friday. Is there a lens shortage that the country needs to know about?
[...] Once again, for the whining Reds fans — the Royals. Poz says this year’s version is the worst he’s seen and he’s seen this entire, dark [...]
@Wes #60, I always use Baseball-references.com for basic stats, and I’ve started using fangraphs.com or baseballprospectus.com for more advanced stats
And #62, Dayton Moore used to work for the Braves, and I think he’s well aware of their success story. The problem is he seems to be trying to reproduce the success of the Braves by getting old Braves players.
Don’t lose heart KC fans, you just have to ride it out. For a really long time apparently. I know that’s a lot easier to say once dawn breaks for one’s own team (that would be the M’s, and deepest sympathies on the Yuni thing, I was seriously hoping we’d screw an AL East team over with that), but it’s not hopeless.
Last year the M’s earned the ignominy of being the first 100 loss, 100 million dollar team and the management (Lincoln and Armstrong) couldn’t seem to make heads or tails of anything.
But then we got Jack Z. And the waters receded. Hopefully your own Jack Z is not too far beyond the horizon.
Plus, at least you don’t have Carlos Silva on the books for two more years and 24 million. WTF Bavasi?
I have been a diehard Royals fan since the day i was born (im 19). I still watch as many games as i can because i believe that these players are better than they show. I think that we are two good bullpen arms away from contending. I have gotten to the point that if i see John bale or roman colon come in to pitch i have to turn it off. they are absolutely the two worst pitchers i have ever seen. constantly giving up walks and hits. its terrible. we have pieces in place and cornerstones of a franchise (Butler batting third, DeJesus leading off, Greinke on the bump) but we need that one extra piece to the puzzle that will shoot us into the division race. Gotta have faith.
I agree, but I’d offer that this club has had more than its fair share of bad luck. Case in point, Saturday 8/22 vs. Minnesota. Kyle Davies buries a pitch in front of the plate and, inexplicably, the best batter in the league, Joe Mauer, swings at it, striking out. But wait! The wild pitch rolls to the wall, the catcher loses sight of the ball, Mauer beats the throw to first and later scores. The outfield seagulls in Seattle were bad enough, but what could be more unlucky than that?
On the other hand, we certainly lead the majors in my new favorite excuse statistic: pitches by pitchers who otherwise are pitching well but who left one out over the plate. If I hear that excuse one more time, I’m going to scream.
Still,
Dear KC, Hope you are enjoying Bentancourt and Bloomquist.
Love, Seattle
[...] Posnanski is calling this team “the worst Kansas City Royals team I have ever seen.” That’s hard to believe [...]
[...] as far as 1996 when he came to Kansas City. My initial reaction after reading Joe’s post Breaking Point was that he was a tad guilty of hyperbole. After breaking down some numbers, this may indeed be [...]