The Autumn Wind is a Raider
Posted: August 18th, 2009 | Filed under: Other Sports | 95 Comments »
One of the guarantees in life is that if you write something about the pathetic state of the Oakland Raiders, you will hear from numerous angry Raiders fans. And they will tell you all about how they went to the 2003 Super Bowl, and that they won three Super Bowls between 1976 and 1984, and that they were the most successful team of the 1980s or over some 25 year span or something. You will hear bland repetition of their now-ridiculous “Commitment to Excellence” slogan, and reminders of glorious victories and anyway how many Super Bowls has YOUR team won? Happens every time.
And I must admit that there’s a part of me that admires this. A large part. I have never liked Springsteen’s “Glory Days” very much because, well, largely because of that tooth-aching “speedball” line, but also because the song just seems to so numbingly obvious — to me it lacks the playfulness and depth of emotion that are in the best of Bruce’s stuff. I mean, “saw him the other night in a roadside bar, I was walking in he was walking out …” Come on. But then, I think of those Raiders fans — the ones clinging to an ever more distant past — and I realize that there’s something true about the song. There isn’t much nuance in people refusing to let go of better times.
This is what I think separates those Raiders fans; I think they are unique in American sports. And it’s not only because fans wear spikes on their shoulders and Darth Vader masks and create a sort of Biker Woodstock every home Sunday in the parking lot. Yes, true, but even more than that, many Raiders fans simply refuse to concede that their team has become a joke. And this really is different. I have been around bad teams pretty much all my life, and I know a little something about this. There are stages to being a fan of bad teams: Anger first, then numbness, then irrational hope, then renewed anger, then realization, then finally this resting place of compromise where fans will either pull back their support or mock their own teams or call for change or simply decide to enjoy the small triumphs.
So, you ask: Where are Raiders fans on this continuum? Well, that’s the thing: Many of them never seem to get on it at all. They simply refuse to admit the Raiders are a bad team. That’s what I find so engaging about Raiders fans. You can review for them the astonishing array of Raiders moments the last six seasons and they will hear you, but then they will say “We went to the Super Bowl in 2003.” Not as a COUNTER to the last six years, exactly. It’s more like those six years never happened.
This of course comes up again because it now appears that Raiders coach Tom Cable may have busted the jaw of his own assistant coach Randy Hanson during a staff meeting. At last check, Hanson has not said who on the staff busted his jaw — and Hanson is the same guy suspended by the last head coach Lane Kiffin for mouthing off after a loss to Denver, so there are probably no shortage of candidates. But the suspicion is it was Cable.
And … well, why not? The Raiders have been such a source for comedy fun the last few years that having a coach punch out another coach during a meeting just falls right in line. This, after all, is the team that hired Tom Walsh to be offensive coordinator, this after Walsh had been running a bed and breakfast for six years. I do have to admit that one of my favorite little column asides came during a classic Raiders-Chiefs fiasco back in 2006, when I tried to imagine what was happening in the sideline conversation between the always confused-looking Art Shell, Tom Walsh and the overmatched quarterback Aaron Brooks. The Raiders had the ball on the Chiefs 8 yard line late in the game with a chance to win.
Brooks: “What do we do now?”
Shell: (Inaudible)
Walsh: “You know, I faced a similar situation at the Hansen Guest Ranch bed and breakfast in Swan Valley, Idaho.”
Brooks: “What did you do?”
Walsh: “Crullers. People love crullers.”
Shell: (Inaudible)
Brooks: “You know, I could just run up to the line and talk to one of the other offensive linemen while the center snaps the ball to nobody.”
Walsh: “No, we did that last week. OK, forget crullers. How about we just serve a continental breakfast, you know, a nice assortment of fruit and breads?”
Shell: (Inaudible)
Of course Brooks promptly threw an interception and lost the game.
Ah, memories. The Raiders have gone 24-72 the last six years under the watchful eyes of coaches named Callahan, Turner, Shell, Kiffin and Cable. They have had JaMarcus Russell, Andrew Walter, Josh McCown, Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks, Ronald Curry, Kerry Collins, Marques Tuiasosopo, Rich Gannon and Rick Mirer start games at quarterback over this beautiful period. There have been countless preposterous losses and two books worth of hysterical moments. They were one of two teams that lost to the Kansas City Chiefs last year, and they lost mostly because they tried this jaw-dropping fake-field goal where the plan — the PLAN — was for the holder to snap the ball between his legs to a sprinting Sebastian Janikowski, the Raiders 250-pound kicker. Tom Cable* was coaching then. You wonder if someone wanted to hit him in the jaw.
*Did you know that Tom Cable’s sole head coaching job before he became coach of the Oakland Raiders was as head coach at Idaho? He went 11-35 in four years. After being offensive coordinator at a UCLA team that made it to Las Vegas and Sun bowls, he was hired to be offensive line coach for an Atlanta Falcons team that went 7-9. He then was the Raiders offensive line coach and led the Raiders to the 25th ranked offense. He was then hired as interim and finally permanent head coach. Well, it just makes sense.
Of course, you can’t talk about the Raiders without trying to guess what’s going on in the Al Davis Sanitarium. I love the fact that in late 2007, Al was sitting in his suite with Minnesota’s sportswriter version of Al Davis, Sid Hartman, and Davis said that he did not want to retire until he won TWO more Super Bowls. I just love that. Two more. I mean, what the heck, when you are living in Lala Land, might as well BUY a home rather than rent. We don’t get too many peeks into the Howard Hughes existence of Al Davis, but those peeks we do get tell us that you don’t want to know what’s in those bottles.
But, unless something has finally snapped, Raiders fans will continue to hold on. Not to hope, exactly. No, they will hold to what they believe the Oakland Raiders stand for. They will continue to look at their Raiders and see Ken Stabler and Willie Brown and Gene Upshaw and Marcus Allen and Howie Long and Fred Biletnikoff. They will continue to hear that awesome NFL Films music playing in the background. They will continue to think about Super Bowls and excellence and how quarterbacks must go down and go down hard. it isn’t that they’re unaware of what the Raiders have become — somewhere under the spikes and leather and silver and black face paint they must know that the Raiders are now a laughingstock. But the Raiders went to the Super Bowl in 2003. They won three Super Bowls, and it was not so long ago. Glory is so recent they can taste it. And their coach can beat up your coach.
Loading ...
“Minnesota’s sportswriter version of Al Davis, Sid Hartman,”
That’s fantastic.
Joe… you complete me.
so close! I read everyday at work and even thought I find it ridiculously stupid, I wanted to write “Circle me Joe!” as the first comment.
It’s like the guys who scream “get in the hole!” on the tee of a 545 yrd par 5… hey, it’s fun and must be said.
The Raiders need to sign Favre.
It appears that the Raiders are too late to get Favre.
RE: Bill James & anti-aging technology
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18aging.html?_r=1&8dpc
It has begun.
Joe, Great post… simple to see why you were selected as a senior staff writer at SI!
Let me echo Brian at #1 and thank you for explaining Sid Hartman to the world.
I disagree with the Sid Hartman crack. Al Davis runs the Raiders, albeit poorly. I don’t believe Sid Hartman writes his columns.
I’ve been a Raiders fan since ‘67, and my sole hope is the Raiders get so many top 5 picks in a row that eventually talent will over incompetence. The real motto in Oakland is “Commitment to Al’s Ego and Delusions.” And yet I met a Raiders’ fan at the ‘07 KU-MU football game whose immediate response when I brought up Al Qaeda, er Davis, was “best owner in football!” I told him that was absurd, which ended the conversation. That’s some mighty powerful kool-aid those folks are drinking.
I have been a Raider fan since the mid-1970’s. There was a time I really appreciated Al Davis’ “maverick” style. It worked. However, I have been waiting ever since the trade of Jon Gruden for someone to take the keys away and bring respectability back to the Raiders. Perhaps I’m the exception to the rule.
Speaking of Bruce, chack out the cover of the Sept/Oct AARP magazine!
http://www.aarpmagazine.org/inprint.html
(no offense to loyal readers of this blog who are Steelers fans…they, I’m sure, lack the obnoxiousness of the crude fans I’m speaking of).
I was talking with a friend about my deep-seeded hatred of the Steelers (as a lifelong Bengals sufferer)…and after reading this post it got me thinking…don’t the Steelers and Raiders have very similar fan bases? Think about it: rabid (check), obnoxious visitors to other stadiums (check), arrogance (check), invocation of history and past greatness (check), theoretical home field advantage thanks to the fans (check). The only difference is that the Steelers fans actually have reason to be so arrogant…they’ve been outstanding in recent history going all the way back to Bill Cowher’s initial years. The Raiders, on the other hand, well, I guess the “Tuck Game” and the 2003 Super Bowl count for something…but I’d hardly call it consistent.
Let me put it another way, year in and year out I wish the Bengals could play Oakland twice a year instead of the Steelers.
Also…I bought 2 copies of the Machine today…one for me and one for my dad.
Thanks for everything, Joe.
disagree with #1.
” I mean, what the heck, when you are living in Lala Land, might as well BUY a home rather than rent”
thats why this site is fantastic.
B. Wright, was the Raiders fan at the game Sid Hartman or maybe Larry King?
I despise the Raiders… their futility is about the only thing that keeps me going as a Chiefs fan.
When did Curry start at QB?
“Don’t the Steelers and Raiders have very similar fan bases? Think about it: rabid (check), obnoxious visitors to other stadiums (check), arrogance (check), invocation of history and past greatness (check), theoretical home field advantage thanks to the fans (check)”
Sounds a lot like (stereotypical) Yankee fans too
[add "disgusting sense of entitlement" though]
If anything, Raider fans are like Cub fans from an evil alternate dimension. The performance on the field is an utterly secondary excuse to consume mass quantities of intoxicants, psychedelics, etc. The only possible retort to their invocations of glory days that might get them to STFU is “You have the right to remain silent”.
The Yankees are more like the Cowboys.
Agree with #1.
I love that you have an opinion about Sid Hartman, and would LOVE a post dedicated to that opinion.
The worst part of the Raiders’ slide into incompetence is they are no longer a good nemesis for the Chiefs or anybody. It’s as if Lex Luthor got a lobotomy but was still trying to defeat Superman. Hating them is like hating that one-legged dog from Springsteen’s Wrestler song. Didn’t they hire Lane Kiffin (who had never been a head coach at any level) because nobody would take the head coaching job? I remember Al Saunders turning it down. There are only 32 of these jobs in the world. If your ambition is to be a head coach in the NFL there aren’t that many opportunities. It was amazing that Davis had to go to a college offensive coordinator to find somebody who would take the job.
Joe,
Normally, I find your articles insightful – But I’m just not sure what to make of this. Every fanbase has its share of blowhards, but why criticize Raider Nation for staying loyal to the Silver and Black and hoping for better days? I do think the Raiders and fans have a lot to be proud of: Legendary players, great rivalries, and an owner whose recent shenanigans have overshadowed achievements worthy of great businessmen and civil rights leaders. (I mean, the guy merged the AFL and NFL and was the first to integrate minority players and head coaches.)
The last 6 years have been unbelievably brutal – but don’t mock us for being optimistic. Broken clocks get daily moments of triumph, why can’t we screw something up right every now and again? And if the only time we get to enjoy the NFL season is late August and very early September, so be it.
I don’t want to get off on a rant about how anyone should feel sorry for the Raiders, or that we’re right to go around and cling to the past, but why rip us for cheering for our team? You don’t think we knew things were bad when we watched our fat kicker try to run a ball in for a touchdown, as you mentioned? There’s a big difference between hoping for better days, and using the mirage of a glorious past as a reason for our hope — Don’t mistake the hype coming from the front office as a symptom of Raider fan naivete. Trust me. WE GET IT. And we would also love to “Just win, baby.” You know, something your Royals ought to try… not that I’d criticize you for continuing to watch and support a team endlessly mired in failure. Why, that’d just be rude!
Saw a Raiders fan in Las Vegas last week wearing a shirt with a team logo and the words, “F*ck the Niners”. As if their team should be considered in the same breath as the better team across the bay. Stay classy, black holers.
You wouldn’t have to change many words in the first paragraph for it to describe Redskins fans. Of course, the Skins have not been as epically bad as the Raiders in recent years; they even won 10 games and a playoff game in 2005. However, I would argue that Redskins fans are roughly as delusional as Raiders fans, just not in the same way. Whereas Raiders fans refuse to concede that the Raiders have become a bad team/franchise, Redskins fans constantly believe – usually in the face of any tangible evidence or rational thought – that the Skins are on the brink of dominating the NFL again. If the Redskins are 3-2 in mid-October, at least a third of their fan base thinks they are going to finish 14-2, or maybe 13-3 since it’s tough to win at Philly on Monday night (or whatever). It is bizarre. I’ll grant that my perspective may be a little skewed since I lived in Virginia for three years this decade and was overexposed to Redskins devotees, but only a little.
Interesting article, Joe. Gets me thinking about the Royals, but in their case, it’s the team that is delusionally clinging to the past rather than the fanbase.
Seriously, the Royals PR department over the years has gone to unimaginable lengths to promote something that happened a QUARTER CENTURY ago. Giveaways, highlights, anniversaries, etc. etc., all celebrating the 1985 team OVER AND OVER again.
ANYTHING in a feeble attempt to distract the fanbase from the garbage they put on the field every year.
Joe, I’m trying to think of anything you said about the Raiders and their fans that can’t be applied to the Browns, and failing.
I will now go search the internet for Marion Motley highlights.
“And it’s not only because fans wear spikes on their shoulders and Darth Vader masks and create a sort of Biker Woodstock every home Sunday in the parking lot.”
That, sir, is hilarious.
As a former Vikings fan, we have a different kind of dementia around here (and I’m not talking about Sid Hartman). The local fans always believe they are just a tiny bit away from total victory. They will point to Adrian Peterson as “the best back in the league,” even though he has to come out on 3rd and long because he can neither block nor catch. Just yesterday, a local radio guy ran a string of “if” hopes that any rational person would have to know are unlikely.
And I have already heard people complain how the Superbowl championship isn’t going to mean as much since it will be with Favre.
Always delusional, always a delight: Minnesota Vikings Fans!
Every fanbase has its share of bad eggs, crazies, imbeciles, and Jeez-look-at-HIM types that even other fans of the same team elbow each other about.
The Raiders have more than their share.
@ Chris/#12: The difference: Raider fans have more sartorial pizzazz. (Also, the Stillers’ recent success, which kinda makes them completely different– the point is that Raider fans are deludedly, murderously confident in SPITE of the losing.)
The Raiders are constantly singled out because they are different. They do things their way, with no apologies…and the media and football pundits truly hate it .
You have every right assert that the Raiders have been a bad team over the last six years. Hell, I’ve even heard that they’ve had the worst six year span in NFL history. The fact is that every team in the NFL goes through lean times, bad times…disastrous times. EVERY TEAM does….but when the Raiders do it, it’s bigger news. It’s bigger news when the Raiders suck than when Detroit sucks. It’s bigger news when the Raiders suck than when the 49ers suck.
I can’t speak for all Raider fans, but I think the reason Raider fans so fiercely defend the honor of their team is that the rest of the NFL, media, and the world take any chance they can to gloat when the Raiders are down….along with limited respect when the Raiders are up.
Think about it, there was a team that was 0-16 last year, and you’re writing about the Raiders being the laughing stock of the league. That is clearly a compliment to the Raiders, but we have to ask ourselves why there aren’t Lion-Haters lining up when they’re down.
Just a few years ago the NY Giants were a pathetic team that could barely manage 4 to 5 wins. Because of their recent superbowl victory…they currently are a respected and storied franchise. How long until they are rendered pathetic again? It will happen. So, using simple common sense, I can see that the NFL works in cycles, so to overly harp when a team is not doing well is a waste. Yes the Raiders have sucked recently. Really sucked actually. So what. If your favorite team is doing well, it will suck again within a decade, guaranteed.
BTW, (and this is not blind faith), despite the years of bad draft picks, despite the carousel of coaches…… the Raiders have begun to amass quite a bit of young talent. It seems they are on the verge of rising up again….as every team eventually does.
Skins fans, on the other hand, ARE pretty damn close.
How about a link to Sid Hartmans column?
“One of the guarantees in life is that if you write something about the pathetic state of the Oakland Raiders, you will hear from numerous angry Raiders fans.”
Like death and taxes, eh, Doug?
And you don’t have to ask yourself why there aren’t any Lion-haters around. The answer’s simple: they inspire pity because their fans aren’t d*ckheads. I’m not sure that pulling off the rare feat of being hated AND looked-down-upon is something about which your fanbase should be proud.
I don’t think Curry STARTED at QB, but he did attempt a few passes.
To be honest, it’s a little confusing to look at the profootballreference site:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CurrRo01.htm
Under “Passing”, it lists “Games Started” even though I don’t think he started at QB, he attempted a pass and was a starter for some games.
Because the Raiders are too easy a target, I’ll say two nice things about their fans just to be contrarian:
1. They have a remarkably diverse fan base. At too many NFL games the only color in the house is on the playing field.
2. They are all about working-class football fans. Geez, to say the least. The NFL has in some respects abandoned the kind of fans the Raiders attract.
By the way, as a Steeler fan I would say that Steeler and Raider fans are pretty different in their approach to their teams. If the Raiders are 2-6 their fans think they’re about to march into the playoffs. If the Steelers are 6-2 their fans think the team sucks and is going nowhere. The ones I talk to, at least.
31: Doug said at 11:48 am on August 18th, 2009: wrote
“Think about it, there was a team that was 0-16 last year, and you’re writing about the Raiders being the laughing stock of the league. That is clearly a compliment to the Raiders, but we have to ask ourselves why there aren’t Lion-Haters lining up when they’re down.”
That, sir, is because everyone, including all 2 Lions fans, expect the Lions to suck every year. It’s not news when they go 0-16 or draft a wide-out that is terrible at #1. No one talks about how “this is the year” for the Lions… but the Raiders? Still stuck in ‘03, or ‘83, and still wanting Madden back as coach.
Joe, I would argue that this is a franchise that has been in utter turmoil since the owner decided to move them from one of the most fiercely loyal fan bases in the 80’s, then uproot them again in the 90’s. What is the TRUE Raider identity? Cable (allegedly) punching his assistant is a great place to start.
Kind of amazing to think Oakland has had Al Davis AND Charlie Finley in the same lifetime.
Also that the Royals are as pathetic now as the A’s used to be in KC.
And — it must be said — in their own way the Chiefs have been as pathetic as the Raiders. Now we’ve traded King Carl for Adolf Haley, and is it any better?
Joe,
I think you should look towards your SI.com colleague Peter King for some guidance. There is a man that knows something about sports reporting. It is easy to kick a team while they are down and stir up readers emotions – It is much harder and much more impressive to write a good piece of sports reporting that covers facts, not made-up scenarios and unconfirmed stories. I just think it is slightly rude to criticize people for being fans of a team, no matter how bad the team may be- I would never criticize a Lions fan, or a Browns fan, or a Bengals fan, or a Bills fan, or a Rams fan, Chiefs fan, Royals fan, Clippers fan simply for being a fan – I could continue listing teams that have seen better days but there is no point – Root for your team and don’t hate on raiders fans for being loyal to their team. 2003 was not that long ago, every team rebuilds, big deal, next story.
Raider Fans are morons. They will beat up any fan wearing an opposing team’s jersey–(I’ve seen it). They will spit on, curse, and pour beer on anyone cheering for the other team—including women and children–(I’ve seen it). Your car will probably be vandalized when you return to it after the game–(I’ve seen it). Yes, they are absolute morons.
You forgot their endless complaining about the “tuck rule” game. Even though they are 100% wrong in every possible aspect in their gripes, they STILL won’t shut up about it. It’s actually quite amazing.
Doug and Scott:
Joe isn’t piling on the Raiders, not really. And he’s not saying don’t support your team. He’s remarking on the disconnect that Raiders fans seem to have: They don’t realize their team/franchise/organization suck. Royals fans and Lions fans KNOW their teams suck, and they even know why they suck–usually. Be a fan! Put on those black Viking helmets and the shoulder armor! Just don’t pretend you guys are making the playoffs this year. To do so would be delusional.
@Mike, 25
Revive 85! I have some good friends who are Royals fans and a few of that population like to bash me (a Cards fan) over the head with that 1985 World Series outcome. Yes, I get it, the Royals beat the Cardinals and my guys laid down in the last game. I know all of that…But does that change the fact that that franchise is running itself into the ground with poor decisions and management.
From the article:
“One of the guarantees in life is that if you write something about the pathetic state of the Oakland Raiders, you will hear from numerous angry Raiders fans.”
LeiterMilnerFasterStronger said at 11:56 am on August 18th, 2009:
“Like death and taxes, eh, Doug?”
@Leiter….Did you read my post? Not only did I agree with Joe about the state of the Raiders….there is not a shred of anger in it.
@Ray Jay
-I’ve been to MANY raiders games, seen a few fights and incidents, nothing that I haven’t seen in Denver or San Diego.
Greg (#38) – Davis AND Finley! Yikes. Great call. Hope you get a BR shoutout from the Poz.
And yes, I think the Raiders’ fans tend toward the delusional. Nobody faults the loyalty, but it’s one thing to stick by a team despite flaws, and another to pretend that the flaws are, in fact, marks of excellence. I know what I’m talking about here, since I am an Islanders fan and always have been. I won’t bail on them – with Bailey and Tavares and Okposo, I certainly hope that they’re on the right track and will hit the playoffs within the next couple of seasons – and yes, flags fly forever and those names will always be on those four Cups –
BUT, they have been laughingly bad for the past 12-15 years, have had more owners go to jail than they have playoff round wins since 1993, foisted on the world one of the worst logos in the history of team sport, and as for this season… well, cue the Jim Mora.
Playoffs? PLAYOFFS??!?
The funny reality of this whole conversation is, that even in bad years the Raiders still competively compete with your sorry teams, year in year out. How many of those losses came within a touchdown or field goal. You can bash all you want, I will stay a fan no matter what some idiot writer has to say, and furthermore I don’t have to read SI at all. It seems this publication is getting worse every time they promote or hire. As for the fan stereotyping, you’re an idiot again. I know what you see on TV but that doesn’t reflect the whole fan base. All I can say is your a Chief, Bronco, or Charger fan who knows in your heart any time anyplace against the Raiders your team is in for a fight, A fight you probably can’t win. You seem to be the kind of person that has been picked on your whole life and is easily intimidated so I won’t be mean but just stay on your side of the tracks and stop bashing ours.
“The funny reality of this whole conversation is, that even in bad years the Raiders still competively compete with your sorry teams, year in year out.”
Thank you, Raiders fan for conclusively concluding the point of this post.
Poz,
As an award winning journalist this is truly a dreadful and obvious column.
I’ve read many of your articles on baseball, and even read your book The Soul of Baseball…great work.
It’s sad that you choose this article to make a point that’s been made by so many. It’s obvious that the Raiders have been a mess since Gruden left. It’s a fact that HOF Al Davis is clinging to the past in order to prepare for the future.
But to attack a fan base that is simply not just the minority of “tugs” you claim is misinformed. The Raider Nation is beyond the borders of Oakland….even during these very difficult years, the Raiders rank 11th amongts the most favorite teams in America according to the Harris Poll
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=811
That’s not even taking into account the International support that is second only to the Cowboys.
When the winning comes back, (and all you Chiefs fans know it will), being a die-hard fan is that much more rewarding.
Tell me Poz..what should we do? Boycott the team…not by merchandise…become Chief fans??
No, we support our team…better or worse….”when” the winning comes back it will be all that much sweeter. Is it blind support? No, we critize our team like any other fan base…but we choose to critize the on-th- field product, and not choose to write “easy” colunms on “how pathetoc this organization is”
So, stick to baseball articles, you do a great job with them. If you choose to write another football article, why not pick on franchises that have won nothing or very little… i.e: the Chiefs.
Tony from NB
“How many of those losses came within a touchdown or field goal.”
Cue NFL Films…
“Though the Raiders had yet another unsuccessful season in 2008, sometimes, when they lost, they actually came close to winning. The Autumn Wind is a Raider, indeed…it just blows differently these days.”
“How many of those losses came within a touchdown or field goal.”
Last year? Three. However, the Raiders also lost five games by 23 or more points.
I’m not a Raider fan, though old enough to remember their real glory days. But someone has to win the AFC West this season. It might be the Raiders.
You are going to feel awfully silly when Charlie Frye puts the team on his back and leads them to the Super Bowl.
The point of this post is to bash a team that for one, Joe Posnanski has no love for at all, which is fine, two that all you have to do in your meaningless life is talk crap to a computer that can’t be critical of you and your weakness as a person. Most people like to kick someone that is down. Nobody is trying to say the Raiders are a great organization, but we the fans love our teams. Put your team out there, I am not afraid of being labeled a Raiders fan, I am pissed that alot of people jugde one by one’s preferences. I will be a fan no matter what. Tracey go back for 6 years if possible I would be very interested in what you have then. Winning isn’t everything but is the ultimate goal. I don’t get to see Raider games as much as I would like, living on the East coast, but I have been to games at LA and San Diego and had a great time doing so. I’ll just quit here because I feel I am becoming like most of you, I would rather talk face to face and not hidden behind a computer. Everyone have a good day and God Bless
I used to live Washington. Now I live in Dallas. This has given me the unique experience of enjoying multiple NFL seasons with two of the most delusional fanbases on the planet: the Cowboys and Redskins. The best part of the year is not the unreasonable preseason expectation, but the inevitable crash back to the earth and the fans turning bitter and angry. Then they rationalize away the lousy season and get jacked up for the next year. It’s like Charlie Brown and the football.
It makes me proud to be a college football fan. My only reason for following the NFL is schadenfraude. I can’t imagine Raider fans are anywhere near as unintentionally hilarious as Cowboys and Redskins fans.
Thank you angry Raiders fans, for making this post even better than it was. I don’t really know that many Raiders fans at all, but you truly drove the point home.
Come on people, it’s Al Davis. Tom Cable. Your response is really going to be “the turnaround is moments away?” Oh and Erik’s post is definitely the winner!
“that even in bad years the Raiders still competively compete”
Competively compete?
“all you have to do in your meaningless life is talk crap to a computer that can’t be critical of you and your weakness as a person”
1. I think it’s his job or something…
b. The ability to leave a reply opens one up to have their work be criticized.
“I would rather talk face to face and not hidden behind a computer”
NNNEEERRDDDDSSSSSS!
Joe, jeez. I know you’re a poker player. Haven’t you heard the expression “don’t tap the glass?”
Joe, given the coherence and intelligence of the Raider fans that have replied (i.e. “competively compete”) I’m surprised none of them have suggested that you live in your Mom’s basement. While the rest of the world is laughing at the Raiders because we love to do so, I suppose if we were a little compassionate we’d have Al Davis committed. It seems like he’s been certifiable insane for years. I think the 2003 success was in spite of Al, not because of him.
@Erik: Do you not even realize you’re proving the point of Joe’s post?
As for why nobody bashes Lions fans… look, I think we can all agree that few things would be more awesome than the Detroit Freakin’ Lions rising up and winning the Super Bowl. Yep, the Lions suck, but we feel sorry for the Lions. We’re honestly tired of seeing them lose. When it comes down to it, they’re a harmless and inoffensive team that’s never really done anything to hurt anyone.
Except themselves, of course.
And then there’s all those bad things that just seem to happen to the Lions. It’s just not fair. The “root for the underdog” gene inside us wants to see the bleeding stop… and, you know, for the most part Lions fans are okay folks, so seeing their suffering end would be okay too.
Now, who (that isn’t a Raider fan) is looking forward to the next February parade in Oakland?
<crickets>
Wow what raider hating dribble. First of all nothing is confirmed its all here-say no one knows what happened. This is all speculation. But I would expect as much from a KC writer. Hope you enjoy another year with the Kansas shitty queffs at the botto of the league
Here is a Raiders article that is actually worth reading, my reponse to your crap Joe. With over 2,000 reads and 78 comments, you should probably cha=eck this out too tough guy: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/229228-raider-nation-why-is-it-different-this-year
You can see more @: http://bleacherreport.com/users/115027-bret-armstrong
Methinks Raider Nation doth protest too much….
#62 – Reading that ‘article’ lowered my IQ by 50 points, which I guess still makes me smarter than most Raiders fans.
No K.C. guy should be writing an article about the Raiders (even if you are really a Cleveland guy).
That would be like a Bills guy writing about the Dolphins. Or the Cowboys. Or the Redskins. Or the Giants. Or near misses. Or sunny locales. Or what great fun snow is. Or proper waterfront development. Or “Buffalo Wings” sold anywhere else. Or enforcement of clear-cut hockey rules. Or the definition of “forward.” Or population relocation. Or low-speed car chases. Or the merits of abandoned mills and factories as historical landmarks. Or the merits of a highway hundreds of feet in the air over said mills and factories. Or the existence of a merciful God.
There are some things one just can’t be objective about.
I’ll just say this.
Marcus Allen’s best years were in Oakland. He won a Super Bowl in Oakland. But he went into the Hall of Fame as Chief and accepted his HOF ring in Kansas City.
“Marcus Allen’s best years were in Oakland. He won a Super Bowl in Oakland.”
Well, L.A., but the point stands, he was a Raider until he fell out with Davis.
I’m rooting for a 7-9 or 6-10 AFC West champ. It could happen. It almost did last year.
The Raiders fans made your point better than you ever could in the replies.
While Detroit may have had an historically bad season, they STILL are better than the Raiders over the last 6 years! (Along with every other team.)
In each one of the last 6 years, Raider fans have expected to make the playoffs and this year is no exception, despite the comical draft and Tom Cable. Try to have one 6 win season first, guys.
For those who want a few insights into Sid:
- The man is ancient. High 80’s. He does not have a high school education, but he was the GM of the Minneapolis Lakers in the 1950s.
- His radio show is a thing of horrific beauty. Recently, when somebody on the show made a reference to how Billy Mays had died, Sid went into “close, personal friend” mode, and starting telling about all the great times he and WILLY MAYS shared, and how much he would be missed.
- He has, on numerous occasions, referred to Vikings OC Darrell Bevell as “Orville Burville”
- When participating in a discussion on the Timberwolves plan to unload most of their 2008 roster, Sid chimed in with this question: “Yeah, but what about Zuckerman?” To this day, no one knows what the Sam Hill he was talking about.
- When Bob Knight retired from basketball, he apparently called Sid to give him the scoop. Bob and Sid are very good friends. Unfortunately, it was late at night, and Sid forgot to write anything down, and then didn’t remember the event until the story had been broken the next day.
Joe,
I’m a huge Royals and Raiders fan. Both were awesome when I was growing up. So I provide an interesting dichotomy.
The Royals side of me only really has hope. As one of my earliest memories, was my parents driving from Omaha to go to game 6 of the 85 series (first base line). But there hasn’t really even been a glimpse of anything from them since then.
As for the Raiders side, I had the Gruden years. My whole family is from KC and huge Chiefs fans (except for buying my season tickets in a losing year, and I ,ive in Ohio). So……We Raider fans, are not necessarily delusional, etc. It is more that we know better than anyone how bad it’s been since that AFC championship, and we hunker down versus those who haven’t accomplished as much this decade. (See any team in the AFC West). Some are the bad apples. I’m sure a few people where I had the tix in Arrowhead would say I’m one of them. But most aren’t We are just so insanely sick of the past 6 years that we go to what was. It is all we have to defend ourselves against the past 6.
And at least We don’t have Clay Ford as an owner, which is nice.
I am wearing my Jamarcus Russell jersey as I type this, and I don’t understand why my fellow Raider fans think this article is such a slight. I thought it was a lot less negative than just about any other Raider coverageI have read these past 6 years.
I would like to point out, in fairness, that the Raiders DID go to the Superbowl in 2003.
“Here is a Raiders article that is actually worth reading”
Worth reading? If only for a laugh….
“But to attack a fan base that is simply not just the minority of “tugs” (sic) you claim is misinformed. The Raider Nation is beyond the borders of Oakland….even during these very difficult years, the Raiders rank 11th amongts the most favorite teams in America according to the Harris Poll
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=811”
Holy cow?!?! 11th in the nation?? Have the prison and gang populations gotten that out of control?? Wow…
Curry never started at QB.
All you had to do was check some facts. But why should you care about facts with this lame article.
These comments are truly fantastic. Talk about proving the first sentence: “One of the guarantees in life is that if you write something about the pathetic state of the Oakland Raiders, you will hear from numerous angry Raiders fans.”
I would encourage anyone who thinks that Joe was degrading or ripping Raider fans to re-read the column with an objective mind. He was not doing so. Nowhere does he suggest that fans abandon the Raiders; that they are bad people; or any of the other accusations thrown around in the comments. He simply states that Raiders fans are unique in that they refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the team.
These comments certainly would appear to prove his point.
@#73 I’m crying, that’s exactly what I was thinking
…and I love the Raiders, but only because I’m shallow and they have the most badass costumes going. Silver and black pirates! ARRRGGGHHH
Erik (#46): Interesting perspective about the Raiders, but Marty Schottenheimer had a different point of view about their fighting spirit and Marty simply owned the Raiders year in and year out. Marty believed that if you hung in with them they would quit. I remember him saying to the team after one game in which the Raiders quit down the stretch, “I told you they’d fucking fold.” I really hope Marty writes a book some day. He used to say he would explain his hatred for the Raiders if he ever wrote a book.
Joe, you are a complete tool.This is yellow journalism at its finest.This is rehashed nonsense, let it go.Forget who was in the AFC cellar last year?
Raider fans and Raider haters do have one thing in common: Both sides hope that Al Davis lives to 100+. Two more SB wins? Attaboy, Al! Don’t quit — evar!!1!!!
Wow, these Raider-fan comments are something else! I would say “tsk, tsk, tsk” at their unreasoning fury, but it seems more appropriate to say “tuck, tuck , tuck”!
As a Chiefs fan, I’m almost inured to the whole “your team hasn’t been to the Bowl in your lifetime” retort when I mention my rivalrous dislike of either the Raiders or the Broncos. Honestly, it hurts when a Broncos fan says it.
So I think I can say, with appropriate humility, that Raiders fans are nuts. Yes, stick to your team. Yes, hope for the future. But seriously, admit that 2003 was a fluke (go, Gannon!), your team has seen better times, and Al Davis really, really needs to let it go.
At least my pitiful 2-14 team has shaken everything up for this year, giving us honest reason to hope for…well, probably next year.
And this:
“They were one of two teams that lost to the Kansas City Chiefs last year, and they lost mostly because they tried this jaw-dropping fake-field goal where the plan — the PLAN — was for the holder to snap the ball between his legs to a sprinting Sebastian Janikowski, the Raiders 250-pound kicker.”
…is one of those highlights I can’t watch often enough. Pure poetry, Poz.
As a lifelong Raider fan (42 years old) I remember the glory years but I also know that until Davis shuffles off this mortal coil we are doomed. We all know this but it’s our team and we have hope every year and that’s the joy in being a fan.
And we aren’t total Pinot Noir sipping douchebags like our friends across the Bay.
As one of the “two Lions fans” (as an earlier commenter put it) alive, I can say that clearly the Lions are so bad that they are completely off the map and irrelevant to most people. Reading a few of the comments here underline this. For example, I’ve seen a couple of people say things like “Nobody, even Lions fans, expect the Lions to win”. These folks do not live anywhere near Detroit or the Metro Detroit area apparently, and because the Lions are off the map, it must just be an assumption.
For people like myself, who listen to Detroit sports talk radio at a minimum of three days and sometimes up to six days a week, I know that Lions fans (in general….not me) are far and away the most delusional fans in all of sports. There ARE people here…….and while I would not label them the majority, I would label them a very large and vociferous minority…….that believe the Lions will make the playoffs THIS YEAR. There is another slice of fans that believe they will win 6-8 games. Even I, with my Honolulu blue colored glasses, fight the urge to expect a six win season (but not seven or eight though, I’m not that ridiculous).
Last year, after the Lions finished the pre-season 4-0, a significant portion of the fanbase was convinced that they were going to win the NFC North. Oh yes, Lions Kool-Aid is mighty mighty powerful here as anywhere.
At the same time, I do not know Lions fans to be particularly big on trumping up our team’s past successes and using them as an excuse to cover for current failures. Of course, part of this is because we’ve only won one playoff game (in 1991, when I was ten years old) in the last fifty years, so there are no real past successes to trump up. So we take our ridicule and deal with it. Which is one of the stages of losing that Joe mentioned in his post, I believe.
How can you not mention the “Franco screw-job”? It takes a special person to remain positive after the “man” has tried to keep us down. war staff violance
The Raiders are The Magnificent Seven. They are Luke Skywalker (even though their fans dress like Darth Vader). They are The Guns of Navarrone, The Great Escape, Baa Baa Black Sheep, M.A.S.H. They are every movie about how a bunch of guys who cannot handle the discipline of a regular army or company but have heart and talent can just win, baby.
But football is not the game of the 1960s. Training, for the elite player, is a full time job, involving running, weight training, diet, OTA, study. Teams build their strategic approaches so well that if a team is not working together as a unit on offense or defense, they aren’t going to win. If you’re stoned or hungover on game day, you’re probably going to get your unit beat too often for your team to win. There is so much money and fame to be had in football today that the Mad Bomber, the Stork, the great weirdo players when the Raiders were at their most entertaining cannot use an edge in pure talent to overcome the positional advantage of having everybody in the right place at the right time and working as a unit.
Football has passed Al Davis by. I think his era was great, but he has not changed with the game. I used to be a Raiders fan. I was totally sold on Lane Kiffin. And I defy anybody who watched them closely to tell me that the players didn’t play harder under Kiffin, didn’t leave it on the field, didn’t show more professionalism.
But of course Kiffin is an army coach, from the biggest regiment in college football: USC. And the more his team acted as a unit, the less they were Al Davis’s kind of team. So Kiffin was let go, despite the example of the biggest army coach in the NFL, Bill Belichick, proving how good units can overcome great individuals. And Kiffin was let go even though his teams were playing better and looked like they were showing improvment from the worst year I ever saw, under Shell. I mean, just to make the players start caring again, and in only one season, was a huge achievement. But I guess every time they did well, and in the regimented structured way Al Davis hates, it only reminded Davis of just how badly Art Shell failed, which in turn meant how badly Davis was failing.
I have stopped rooting for the Raiders, which was tough to do since they’re the only team whose radio broadcasts I can hear regularly (we don’t have TV in the mountains near Yosemite). They are the only team that still exists that I used to root for, but no longer do. I sorta kinda hope they do well, because Oakland needs somebody to cheer for. But I’m not going to be cheering for them myself.
“And Kiffin was let go even though his teams were playing better and looked like they were showing improvment from the worst year I ever saw, under Shell. I mean, just to make the players start caring again, and in only one season, was a huge achievement. But I guess every time they did well, and in the regimented structured way Al Davis hates, it only reminded Davis of just how badly Art Shell failed, which in turn meant how badly Davis was failing.”
This is well put, sir, and even as a Chiefs fan, I saw improvement in the Raiders’ overall attitude and willingness to perform under Kiffin’s coaching. However, also as a Chiefs fan, I was pleased to see him go.
Sorry, man.
I haven’t laughed out loud this much in a long time. Thanks Joe for helping relieve the stress. Heck, even the raiders fans have to laugh at themselves after reading your wonderful portrayal. Of course, I tried to read the the highlights of your piece to my wife and girls and just got a blank look. Oh well, they are skating fans. You just can’t please everyone.
yeah. raider fan hee. i gota question. arent fans supposed to stay loyal? this writer is laughuing at raider fans 4 believing in their team.. dont cowboy fans do the same thing? when did they last win a playoff game? and we bring up our 2003 superbowl becuz people always say we havent been good since the 70s
us raider fans are the coolest fans in the world. and if everybody has disdain 4 us ,, then why do all fan bases label themselves “Nation” now? copycats … i believe in the commitment 2 excellence. other fans hate the slogan the same reason they hate tim tebow 4 bein a virgin and a christian = over play . oh yeah… we have 3 super owl rings. u silly chief fans have ???
As a Lions fan I have learned to not enjoy other teams difficulties. In fact, I pretty much will always cheer for the underdog unless it is a team/franchise/fan base that deserves the grief that it is currently earning.
That being said, I assume the point of Joe’s article is that Raider’s fans are exceptionally delusional and backward looking. I have no personal experience with Raider fans, but my contacts with Cowboy, Ram, 49er, Bear, Packer, and yes the Lion fans up north of the border seem to me to indicate that optimism and wishful thinking are especially widespread this time of year. On a Lion’s fan site that I frequent [Pride of Detroit] there has been an ongoing debate between the optimists and pessimists [both groups calling themselves realists and impugning the intelligence and loyalty of the other]. Optimists see the Lions at 11-5 to 8-8, while the pessimists are between 5-11 and 3-13. Ardent fans by their nature will generally think the best of their team and hype their chances.I have no evidence that the Raiders are nuttier than any others.
[...] Joe Posnanski blogging about the Raiders. There’s no need to sell this any further. [JoePosnanski.com] [...]
[...] Joe Posnanski blogging about the Raiders. There’s no need to sell this any further. [JoePosnanski.com] [...]
Looking at the Raiders schedule, it is not hopefully optimistic that they could win 8 games this year. They play the Broncos and Chiefs 4 times. They beat the Broncos badly last year when the Broncs had Cutler and a playoff birth on the line. They also should beat Cleveland, possibly Cincy, NYJ, Houston and Washington.
I deal with Raiders fans though in a very specific way. If they want to bring up their past, I just need to hold up 6 fingers. The best that they can do is that their 2-14 team kept the 2006 Steelers out of the playoffs. Curse that Cowher for playing a concussed Ben.
Where can I get one of these Super Owl Rings? Hoot Hoot!
[...] And I must admit that there’s a part of me that admires this. A large part. I have neverRead more at http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/18/the-autumn-wind-is-a-raider/ [...]