Comments on: What quitting means http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/ Curiously Long Posts Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:52:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Richard Aronson http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69550 Richard Aronson Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:35:42 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69550 wrt Mike @42: It takes more than one quality hitter to lead the way. The Dodgers are being managed by Joe Torre. It's very hard for even the callow youths on the Dodgers not to respect Torre's World Series rings and batting title. Torre preaches a strategic offensive game. Batters are asked to take lots of pitches. Deep counts early in the game gets starting pitchers tired (and more hittable) or relieved (and most middle relievers are more hittable. Getting Manny Ramirez, who is very good at Torre's strategic approach, gave them a leader by example. Casey Blake bought in immediately, because he wants to win. Martin also bought in immediately, since even though they call them the tools of ignorance, catchers require more intelligence than any other position. Ethier (college graduate) followed, and this season Loney and Kemp are doing more of it. And the Dodgers have the best record in the NL. The point is, you could put Pujols on the Royals and he would lead by example, but without reinforcement by the manager and buy in by the players, it won't help. It's really easy for (say) Tommy Lasorda or Tony LaRussa to inspire young players, because they've won it all. Hillman needs to be that much more inspiring because he lacks the resume. And from what I've seen, Hillman is anti-inspiring. Anti-inspiring? Well, from what I've read, Hillman lied to his team. Early this season, after another blown save before Soria got into the game, Hillman said that he'd start bringing Soria into the game earlier to clinch victories. But he didn't do it. So the team learned that he'll say one thing and do another. He'll lie to them. It makes leading that much harder. Same with the Royals front office. They swore they needed better OBP guys, and every trade they made since that statement was for a lousy OBP guy. Okay, Coco Crisp is merely mediocre, but given his lack of power, he *needs* better than mediocre OBP to be useful. So how do the players know what kinds of on field behavior will be rewarded? Only the obvious ones: BA means more than OBP, don't get thrown out, don't hurt yourself diving, and in a few years you'll go free agent and maybe latch on with a winner. The Royals needs a complete change, both on the field and off, with the possible exception of their pitching coach. They are the Detroit Lions of baseball. And I don't think the individual players have quit so much as they've stopped doing the things that risk injury to focus on the few things they know bring rewards. It's like a prison team there. They need that call from the governor. wrt Mike @42: It takes more than one quality hitter to lead the way. The Dodgers are being managed by Joe Torre. It’s very hard for even the callow youths on the Dodgers not to respect Torre’s World Series rings and batting title. Torre preaches a strategic offensive game. Batters are asked to take lots of pitches. Deep counts early in the game gets starting pitchers tired (and more hittable) or relieved (and most middle relievers are more hittable. Getting Manny Ramirez, who is very good at Torre’s strategic approach, gave them a leader by example. Casey Blake bought in immediately, because he wants to win. Martin also bought in immediately, since even though they call them the tools of ignorance, catchers require more intelligence than any other position. Ethier (college graduate) followed, and this season Loney and Kemp are doing more of it. And the Dodgers have the best record in the NL.

The point is, you could put Pujols on the Royals and he would lead by example, but without reinforcement by the manager and buy in by the players, it won’t help. It’s really easy for (say) Tommy Lasorda or Tony LaRussa to inspire young players, because they’ve won it all. Hillman needs to be that much more inspiring because he lacks the resume. And from what I’ve seen, Hillman is anti-inspiring.

Anti-inspiring? Well, from what I’ve read, Hillman lied to his team. Early this season, after another blown save before Soria got into the game, Hillman said that he’d start bringing Soria into the game earlier to clinch victories. But he didn’t do it. So the team learned that he’ll say one thing and do another. He’ll lie to them. It makes leading that much harder.

Same with the Royals front office. They swore they needed better OBP guys, and every trade they made since that statement was for a lousy OBP guy. Okay, Coco Crisp is merely mediocre, but given his lack of power, he *needs* better than mediocre OBP to be useful. So how do the players know what kinds of on field behavior will be rewarded? Only the obvious ones: BA means more than OBP, don’t get thrown out, don’t hurt yourself diving, and in a few years you’ll go free agent and maybe latch on with a winner.

The Royals needs a complete change, both on the field and off, with the possible exception of their pitching coach. They are the Detroit Lions of baseball. And I don’t think the individual players have quit so much as they’ve stopped doing the things that risk injury to focus on the few things they know bring rewards. It’s like a prison team there. They need that call from the governor.

]]> By: Mark W http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69502 Mark W Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:08:37 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69502 jonas: Well, you certainly have given this some thought, I'll give you that. However, unless the entire MLB/minor leagues system is completely overhauled, you have entered the world of "Mental Masturbation" as one of my favorite profs liked to call it... jonas: Well, you certainly have given this some thought, I’ll give you that. However, unless the entire MLB/minor leagues system is completely overhauled, you have entered the world of “Mental Masturbation” as one of my favorite profs liked to call it…

]]> By: jonas http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69488 jonas Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:06:01 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69488 You would also probably need to drop the DH or make the NL switch to the DH. You would also probably need to drop the DH or make the NL switch to the DH.

]]> By: Jonas http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69487 Jonas Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:02:04 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69487 Here's a way regulation would work: Make MLB a 24 team league Create a 10 team AAAA league with 6 dropped and 4 expansion clubs Each MLB team plays 162 games: -AAAA teams twice (20 games) rotating home field every other year -Interleague teams twice (24 games) rotating home field every other year -Eight same league teams 11 times (88 games) -Three same league teams 10 times (30 games) Each AAAA team plays 156 games: -Every ML team (48 games) -Every AAAA 12 times (108 games) Regulation: -Bottom team from AL and NL drop to AAAA each year -Top record from AAAA advances -Top four AAAA have a playoff, winner advances (if same as best record, runner-up advances) -Regulated or advancing teams use the team they replaced's home field scheduling for interleague/AAAA games Here’s a way regulation would work:

Make MLB a 24 team league

Create a 10 team AAAA league with 6 dropped and 4 expansion clubs

Each MLB team plays 162 games:
-AAAA teams twice (20 games) rotating home field every other year
-Interleague teams twice (24 games) rotating home field every other year
-Eight same league teams 11 times (88 games)
-Three same league teams 10 times (30 games)

Each AAAA team plays 156 games:
-Every ML team (48 games)
-Every AAAA 12 times (108 games)

Regulation:
-Bottom team from AL and NL drop to AAAA each year
-Top record from AAAA advances
-Top four AAAA have a playoff, winner advances (if same as best record, runner-up advances)
-Regulated or advancing teams use the team they replaced’s home field scheduling for interleague/AAAA games

]]> By: Mark W http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69471 Mark W Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:25:31 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69471 Sorry, I don't recall the exact wording by Belushi in Animal House... 'Did we give up (quit) when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" Sorry, I don’t recall the exact wording by Belushi in Animal House…

‘Did we give up (quit) when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”

]]> By: Nate P. http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69463 Nate P. Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:11:18 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69463 (I was going to cop to my error -- it was only a ten run lead when I posted that -- but I just had to wait a few minutes for that mistake to magically correct itself into fact.) (I was going to cop to my error — it was only a ten run lead when I posted that — but I just had to wait a few minutes for that mistake to magically correct itself into fact.)

]]> By: Nate P. http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69462 Nate P. Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:58:02 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69462 Looks like the unstoppable apathy met the immovable ennui tonight, and as a result the Royals are murdering the Twins by a dozen runs. So I guess if you want some additional context for what it means to quit, there's that. Looks like the unstoppable apathy met the immovable ennui tonight, and as a result the Royals are murdering the Twins by a dozen runs. So I guess if you want some additional context for what it means to quit, there’s that.

]]> By: Mike in MN http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69436 Mike in MN Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:59:56 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69436 Did the Jays quit when they let Rios go? Did the Pirates quit with their sale of players? Is it possible for an organization to quit, even if their players haven't? Did the Jays quit when they let Rios go?

Did the Pirates quit with their sale of players?

Is it possible for an organization to quit, even if their players haven’t?

]]> By: Roy in Omaha http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69413 Roy in Omaha Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:12:34 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69413 I think what you've hit on here is why the pitching has gone south. If no matter what you do out there on the hill isn't going to matter because of your hitters, your team's fielding, or, its base running, and you give up three runs, what's the point? You know you are on a team that only scores 3 1/2 runs per game and you are as good as toast. Plus, even on the off-occasion that your team actually gets you some runs, your bullpen is so appallingly bad that it still won't/doesn't matter. I'd go out there with a hang dog, self defeatist attitude, too. Our starting pitchers have been, in effect, tortured into submission by the rest of the team, and, it shows. The degradation of the pitching has been like the proverbial snowball rolling down the hill and just keeps getting bigger and bigger. The only way the Royals stop this is by clearing the decks to the degree that it is possible with personnel immediately available, mostly from the minor leagues. That's the only way you change this mindset, by infusing hope and/or fresh enthusiasm. Either that, or, by hiring a manager that is actually a leader of men. I think what you’ve hit on here is why the pitching has gone south. If no matter what you do out there on the hill isn’t going to matter because of your hitters, your team’s fielding, or, its base running, and you give up three runs, what’s the point? You know you are on a team that only scores 3 1/2 runs per game and you are as good as toast. Plus, even on the off-occasion that your team actually gets you some runs, your bullpen is so appallingly bad that it still won’t/doesn’t matter. I’d go out there with a hang dog, self defeatist attitude, too. Our starting pitchers have been, in effect, tortured into submission by the rest of the team, and, it shows. The degradation of the pitching has been like the proverbial snowball rolling down the hill and just keeps getting bigger and bigger. The only way the Royals stop this is by clearing the decks to the degree that it is possible with personnel immediately available, mostly from the minor leagues. That’s the only way you change this mindset, by infusing hope and/or fresh enthusiasm. Either that, or, by hiring a manager that is actually a leader of men.

]]> By: Ward http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69410 Ward Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:34:11 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/08/10/what-quitting-means/#comment-69410 "cheaters like A-Fraud, Manny, Ortiz, Pujols" -- One of these things is not like the other.... “cheaters like A-Fraud, Manny, Ortiz, Pujols” — One of these things is not like the other….

]]>