Yuni Watch 7/30
Posted: July 30th, 2009 | Filed under: Baseball, Other Sports | 59 Comments »
A few thoughts on Yuni … and stuff that is not Yuni.
Yuniesky Betancourt on Royals:
45 plate appearances
.119 average
.116 on-base percentage
.167 slugging percentage
1 extra base hit
0 walks
2 sac hits
2 grounded into double plays
-25 OPS+
Remember, they’re not booing. They’re saying YOOOOOOO-ni. Or, maybe they’re booing.
* * *
Zack Greinke is 10-6 with a 2.08 ERA. He has not won any of his last five starts even though his ERA over those five is 2.53, every start was a quality start and he only once gave up even three earned runs.
To compare: Jamie Moyer is 10-7 with a 5.32 ERA.
* * *
Well, I guess I’m on board with most people who think that Philadelphia made itself World Series favorites by picking up Cliff Lee. With Cole Hamels pitching great again — Phillies are 5-0 in his last five starts — and Joe Blanton pitching really well since late May (5-1, 2.31 ERA in last 11 starts), and the Phillies having scored 40 more runs than anyone else in the league … yeah, I think Cliff Lee makes them awfully good.
But here’s what really strikes me: Lee has really been just about as good as Halladay since the beginning of the 2008 season … and the Phillies got him for A LOT less.
Lee: 29-12, 2.78 ERA, 375 IP, 277 Ks, 67 walks, 22 homers, 160 ERA+
Halladay: 31-15, 2.74 ERA, 394 IP, 335 Ks, 59 walks, 29 homers, 156 ERA+.
Not only did the Phillies get Lee without giving up Drabek or Happ, you also have to note that Lee will make A LOT less money than Halladay over the next year and a half. According to the indispensable Cot’s …
Lee: Prorated $5.75 million this year; club option for $8 million in 2010.
Halladay: Prorated $14.75 million this year; $15.75 million in 2010.
Halladay is incredible, we all know that. But Lee is a little younger, a lot cheaper, left-handed, undervalued and pretty awesome himself. There might be this sense among some that Lee is not quite as good as he has pitched the last two years, and let’s face it there are still people in baseball swayed by a pitcher’s win-loss record (Lee is 7-9 this year). But, basically, I don’t think the Phillies could have done much better.
* * *
When Seattle picked up light-hitting Jack Wilson — there were some in Kansas City who wondered why the Mariners were not getting skewered over it the way the Royals did for picking up Yuni.
There are a couple of reasons.
One, while neither is much of an offensive player, Jack Wilson (as rated by a couple of the better defensive measurements) is one of the best defensive shortstops in the game, and Yuni Betancourt is one of the worst.
Dewan plus/minus (2009)
Jack Wilson: +24
Yuni: -15
UZR/150
Jack Wilson: +19.5
Yuni: -18.9
Of course, not everyone believes in those defensive stats.
Second, Betancourt is signed through 2011. He is due $7 million — $5 million of that is the Royals responsibility. And while that’s not a crippling amount of money, I suspect that it’s enough money to convince the Royals they have their everyday shortstop in 2010.
Jack Wilson, meanwhile, has an expensive club option in 2010 that Seattle will not pick up. If they like Wilson, they can work to sign him for less. But they’re not hooked the way the Royals are hooked.
* * *
I never like being cynical about things, I really don’t.
But somehow, I cannot help but be a bit cynical about this story which says that Brett Favre decided to retire (again) so he could spend more time with his family.
The money quote from “long-time agent and friend” James ”Bus“ Cook: “I don’t know what ultimately made Brett decide to stay. But I’m sure it was a combination of things. He wants to spend time with his family, that had probably the biggest impact.”
I know. The family thing. Look, being a great athlete I’m sure can make it tough on the family. But just once I wish the family would hold its own press conference and say: “We would just like to announce: Don’t blame us.”
* * *
Well, this was inevitable: John Daly has another reality TV show coming. The catch is that this show apparently is going to show how BORING Daly’s life has become — sounds like a ratings winner.
I’m a huge Daly fan, of course, and would like nothing more than to see him win another major championship somehow. You realize that if he would happen to do that, he would have THREE majors victories, which would be more than Greg Norman, Fuzzy Zoeller, Curtis Strange, Tony Jacklin, Ben Crenshaw and as many as Phil Mickelson, Ernie Els and Hale Irwin. One more major and I guess he would have to be a serious Golf Hall of Fame candidate. Wouldn’t that be great?
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Maybe Cliff Lee is undervalued because some people in baseball are turned off by the recent season that included a stint pitching for Buffalo.
Joe, I know you’re mentioning Yuni’s overall UZR, but part of your Yuni watch should be his current defensive stats as well. I recently read somewhere that he is playing as poorly defensively as expected. Meanwhile, I know at least some announcers think he’s been doing well, and I’m sure some Royals’ officials are thinking that too.
Anyone who is wondering why Seattle isn’t being given the Royals treatment over the Wilson trade is a fool.
Wilson may be “light hitting,” but his OPS+ is 86.
It really isn’t even a comparison. The only people trying to raise a stink are doing so by comparing career statistics. I think it has been excessively demonstrated that Yuni’s career statistics are meaningless.
Jack Wilson’s career statistics don’t reach the level of Honus Wagner, either. But would you really want the Royals to start Honus Wagner tonight?
The man is a corpse. And so is Yuni.
@ GYong (#3): You just invented a great nickname for Yuni: Betancorpse.
The Royals are the most overexposed last place team in MLB history.
Of course, not everyone believes in those defensive stats.
Of course, not everyone believes in evolution/dinosaurs/the moon landing/etc.
Has Yuni made an error since being here? Just curious, because he is sooo horrible and the Gold Glover TPJ was much better and never made an error!
Mr. Burns: Smithers, are they boo-ing me?
Smithers: Uh…no. They’re saying boo-URNS, boo-URNS
Mrs. Burns: (To the crowd) Excuse me, are you saying BOO or BOOURNS?
Crowd: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Hans Moleman: (to himself) I was saying boourns.
Greg [#7],
Yuni’s only made one error since he went to KC. Luckily, his range is such that he hasn’t gotten to enough balls to make many more than that.
[...] As frustrating as it is to be a Reds fan, can you imagine being Zack Greinke? As Joe Posnanski points out, with his 2.08 ERA is good only for a 10-6 record. The 10-7 Jamie Moyer has a 5.32 ERA. Greinke [...]
But he has such a feel for the position, it just can’t be qualified in stats…
@6 Isn’t Kansas the state where evolution can’t be taught in schools…or something along those lines? I guess Dayton Moore fits right in.
I have to admit, the “Betancorpse” moniker is simply outstanding!
Well done, Mr. Haas #4!
Why is it that the Royals get all the great writers as fans? At least the Bucs have Dejan…
So combining the two main pitching themes of this post (Royals killing Greinke’s W-L record/Lee’s worth much less than Halladay based mostly on W-L) we can only assume that when the Royals have to let Zach go in the future, we’ll get Lee’s trade value (in quality of prospects or young players) and not Halladay’s simply because the offense can’t win Zach’s quality starts.
That’s an ominous sign that this year’s terrible season could actually have very serious long-term affects on building up the franchise…
I think the Royals need to go all out to win Zack the Cy Young this year – really, what more is there to play for? – so Soria should not be used the day before a Zack start under any circumstances so that Zack can hand him the ball directly for two or even three innings….
He had one of his worst starts of the year last night, the slider wasn’t particularly sharp, and he got very few swings and misses, and just seemed to me to be fighting it all night.
And then you look up and see six innings and two runs, and realize these are the results he puts up when he is struggling. Mind boggling.
And now the Royals have a losing record in games he has started ….
it’s hard to compare Lee and Halladay packages until Halladay gets traded. that was a quite obvious statement there, but i contend toronto’s GM has talked so much out of both sides of his mouth that he’ll have a hard time getting anything. when your a gm you should aim high (see drabek) but when he starts talking about ervin santana or whatever he just looks like he doesnt know how GMing works. I do believe he always intended to trade him and he’s put himself in a bad position which has to be annoying as a toronto fan.
Man, even Joe can’t avoid using wins as a measure of pitcher effectiveness. And he’s trying so hard, too. Despite on-the-money observations like this:
“He [Greinke] has not won any of his last five starts even though his ERA over those five is 2.53, every start was a quality start and he only once gave up even three earned runs. To compare: Jamie Moyer is 10-7 with a 5.32 ERA.”
And this:
“…let’s face it there are still people in baseball swayed by a pitcher’s win-loss record (Lee is 7-9 this year).”
Joe still tosses out wins as the sole statistical evidence that Cole Hamels is rounding into form:
“With Cole Hamels pitching great again — Phillies are 5-0 in his last five starts…”
D’oh! But keep fighting the good fight, J-Poz.
“He (Favre) wants to spend time with his family”
Uh-huh.
Not buying that story at all. The guy doesn’t want to come to training camp, period.
I will gladly bet on Brett Favre playing before this season is out. Any takers?
#15 – at least they don’t have to worry about trading Greinke for a while. He’s signed through 2012. And isn’t the world supposed to end that year anyway?
I’m not worried about Betancourt. Dayton says he’s got a lot of potential. Think how good he’ll be when he’s a little older!
Hamels is pitching marginally better- in July, he’s a 5.8 K/BB ratio compared to 4.75 prior, a 7.5 H/9 compares to 10.9, and if you want to go old school, a 4.38 ERA in June compared to 4.44. The Phillies five straight wins not necessarily to Hamel’s credit!
RE: John Daly/Golf Hall of Fame
Actually all you have to do to qualify for possible induction is 10 PGA Tour Wins or 2 Major championships. So he already qualifies, although a 3rd major would definitely help. His real difficulty would be the Dennis Rodman effect, will his outside influences taint his overall achievements.
“Second, Betancourt is signed through 2011. He is due $7 million — $5 million of that is the Royals responsibility. And while that’s not a crippling amount of money, I suspect that it’s enough money to convince the Royals they have their everyday shortstop in 2010.”
Does that mean no one thinks Aviles is coming back? I think he has a better chance of being an average MLB SS than Yuni or TPJ, and for the Royals average is a step up.
I say we try Yuni as a pitcher.
I wonder if Favre is similarly equivocal with his family.
“Glad you’re staying retired dad! Wanna play catch?”
“I do … except, actually my arm’s not up to it … but I did say I’d spend time with you … how about we walk over to the park, and I’ll decide then?”
Got this from a post on royalsauthority.com today. The designated hitters for the Royals are hitting a combined .183/.265/.352 this year. Simply amazing. At least their defense is average.
@Red – “@6 Isn’t Kansas the state where evolution can’t be taught in schools…or something along those lines? I guess Dayton Moore fits right in.”
Now if only Kansas City were in Kansas instead of Missouri, you might be onto something!
[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Yuni Watch 7/30 By Joe Posnanski As frustrating as it is to be a Reds fan, can you imagine being Zack Greinke? As Joe Posnanski points out, with his 2.08 ERA is good only for a 10-6 record. The 10-7 Jamie Moyer has a 5.32 ERA. Greinke [...] … Joe Posnanski – http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/ [...]
Joe, it is now up to you to adopt the nickname Betancorpse formally for the masses.
Remember, this is actually a positive. I’m saying Yuni compares favorably to Luke Appling, Arky Vaughan, Joe Cronin, Pee Wee Reese, Joe Rizzuto, the list goes on and on.
The Royals should try wheeling one of those guys out there, just to compare the production to Betancorpse. I think we may also be on the verge of developing a new advanced statistic.
Cliff Lee’s a career 7-0, with a 2.06 ERA against the NL East + NL playoff contenders (Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs, & Giants). That made him perfect for an NL contender….Philly just stole the show.
If Greinke wins 15 on this team, he’ll be the most amazing pitcher in Royals history. Seriously.
The Royals should hold a promotion called “Be a league average shortstop” night. Fans get to take batting practice and fielding practice against TPJ and the Betancorpse, and if they do better than those two luminaries, they get signed to a league minimum contract and get to play the rest of the season.
Interesting… bet the corpse would have a better chance of getting a walk…
hamels has given up 1 run in 3 of his last five starts (he did give up 5 in one). so he has indeed improved.
The whole halladay and lee thing i guess that worries people is that there isnt necessarily a sure thing in the playoffs (though id take my chances). where as halladay is the type of playoff pitcher who seems to do well. he’s throws like a becket,clemens, schilling.
“Betancorpse” wins the thread by a clear mile… but who’s JOE Rizzuto? (Wasn’t he married to Gwendolyn Monroe?)
This is all neither here nor there. There is only one thing that we really need to know.
What does Steve Phillips think?
27 – Technically, Kansas City IS in Kansas. Just not the Kansas City the Royals play in. I’ve always found it weird that two different cities right next to each other have the same name. Was it originally one city that was divided when Missouri/Kansas became states?
Who is Joe Rizzuto? Oops.
Regardless, I bet he would score a positive on the Value Over Replacement Corpse metric.
Nothing can be proven, Betancourt of public opinion…
Betancourt just booted a ground ball, which led to a 4 run inning. The grounder was ruled an “infield single” so all of the runs are earned. It was an error. I feel bad for Luke.
I know this has happened to Greinke a few times this year as well. It would be interesting to know all of the “earned” runs that were charged to Royals pitchers because of questionable scoring decisions. I can’t think of a few for Greinke, including a ball that hit off the wall, then off Guillen’s face, and became a triple.
Hmm I thought that ground ball went past Billy Buttler?
And KCStar website now reports Roayls traded for Josh Anderson. Is this the next Joey Gathright? Joe I hope you can explain what this trade means!
I’d like to be the first to say, I am PISSED at the Royals’ bullpen.
Just nail down a goddam win for Greinke. They’re going to cost him the Cy Young.
And don’t get my started with the offense…
The people that comment on here a genius. Bettancorpse, League Average SS Day, I am crying I am laughing so hard.
Actually Joe, I think Seattle is picking up Wilson’s option because Pittsburgh sent over a substantial amount of cash in that deal. It still makes it a terrific deal for Seattle, and a stupid one for KC.
I think I finally figured out what DM is doing. He is using his 3 year old scouting reports from the Braves when deciding what deals to make. That would go a long way towards explaining the Yuni trade, and now Josh Anderson.
I have to admit Betancorpse is catchy.
But I prefer the full name of Yuniefi Berroacourt, Jr.
#36
Kansas City is in MO, Kansas City, Kansas is our handicapped little sister. Also not that strange, think Hartford, West Hartford Lansing, East Lansing. If these towns were in different states then maybe they’d have the same name. However East Saint, and StL so maybe I’m a fool and it is weird as hell.
But for the record if someone says Kansas City, they are referring to MO, the densest part of the city and all the cultural attractions are in KCMO.
cultural attractions are in KCMO.
These exist?
I KID!
Also note that Kansas is in Arkansas, that always confuses me. Why don’t they sound the same?
The Royals play in MO, but perhaps Dayton Moore lives in KS. If his kids go to school in KS, then they may have influenced his opinion on evolution.
JD @36 & Jason @47:
Yep, to anyone from the KC area, Kansas City is Missouri, KCK is Kansas. But I had to swallow a bitter pill when I moved out of state — nearly everyone I meet assumes that Kansas City is in Kansas, and I am constantly having to defend my animosity toward KU by explaining that, no, in fact, I am not from Kansas.
As for the history, KCK and KCMO are two separate cities and two separate legal entities. KCMO is older, and naturally KCK stole the name from us Missourans, probably claiming something like, “we’re the ones who actually live in Kansas.”
And that is what I always thought was the weird part: that MO has a city seemingly named for another state.
There are cities that span state lines — Cincinnati, Texarkana, Texahoma, Tahoe — but there are not many (any?) states housing cities named for other states. I am unaware of any others besides KC (and maybe Washington, DC – though I think DC is older than Washington State), though the limits of my knowledge are certainly not definitive.
But MO was a state before Kansas, and Kansas City was a town long before either the Kansas or Missouri Territories existed. The name is derived from the Indians who lived in KC when the French first settled themselves in the area — The Kansa. The oldest name I know of for KC is Town of Kansa, bestowed upon us by the French. Then it became Town of Kansas and eventually Kansas City.
So, really, Kansas is a state named for our city.
Dang, Ted (#51), thanks for the history lesson. I grew up in KC (MO) and didn’t know all of that.
Joe,
I hope you have time to do a dog snuggie post!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YirEI7pPGzg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eavclub%2Ecom%2Ffeatures%2Fhater%2F&feature=player_embedded
“And that is what I always thought was the weird part: that MO has a city seemingly named for another state.”
There’s Washington, PA. And Washington, IN. And Michigan City, IN. Ohio has a few: Delaware, Oregon, and Wyoming.
Not an exhaustive list, of course.
#51:Ted
Though Missouri was admitted to the union in 1821, fully 40 years before Kansas, your unfounded indignation is ill based. Kansas City, Kansas was incorporated in 1872 under that name.
KCMO was incorporated much earlier ….1850 …as the city of Kansas. Westport and Independence were incorporated a few years later. The city of Kansas changed its name to Kansas City in 1889, fully 17 years after Kansas City, Ks was so named.
Hate to burst your bubble….all info from wiki…
Chuck @55:
You got me. I did not know that KCMO was called the City of Kansas when it incorporated; I had always thought the name changed from City of Kansas to Kansas City with incorporation.
But the indignation was faux.
And the faux indignation remains. Should I be awed at the innovation involved in changing City of Kansas to Kansas City? Does KCK really get credit for the name, or do they just get credit for stealing our name and making it more American?
Yeah, I’m still going with Kansas stole its name from our fair city. And not just KCK, the state name as well. Thieves.
Damon @54:
Thanks for the partial list.
I should have at least managed Nevada, MO, being from MO and all.
What with the prevalence of common Native American, Spanish, French, British and early Colonial names/words among our state names, I probably should not be surprised.
I guess I think of KCMO as weird and unique because it is where I am from, and of course my experiences are all unique and interesting.
Weaselbill, Halladay isn’t valued higher than Lee based mainly on W-L. Halladay is valued higher than Lee based on the fact that Halladay has been among the best pitchers in the league since 2002 and in that time has had seasons finishing 1st (2003), 2nd (2008), 3rd (2006) and 5th (2007) in the Cy voting along with All-Star appearances in 2002, 2005 and 2009. Prior to last year Lee’s best ERA in full season was 3.79, a mark Halladay has bettered in every full season of his career (and mostly bettered by a lot: in seasons of 30 or more starts Doc’s ERAs are:2.93, 3.25, 3.19, 3.71, 2.78)
There’s no telling what will happen with Greinke between now and when the Royals might try to trade him, but as of today, I’d have to think he’d be one of the most valuable property’s in the majors. He’s only 25, he has that first round glow from being the #6 overall pick and I think he’s still relatively cheap.
joe, i just watched torre intentionally walk pujols AND holliday in a row to load the bases and get to ankiel with 2 out in the 8th with the game tied at 3.