Soccer Talk
Posted: May 27th, 2009 | Filed under: Other Sports | 82 Comments »
One of the things I was hoping to do this year was follow the English Premier League and, specifically, be a Fulham FC fan. And I have to admit that I failed pretty miserably. It wasn’t entirely my fault … a lot of stuff happened in the last few months and I simply did not find the time to invest in my new team.
I did keep an eye on them — Fulham had quite a year. As several fans have pointed out, they set records for most points and most goals. And Fulham qualified for Europe. The key to this success seems to be the guidance of manager Roy Hodgson, a soon-to-be-62-year-old man who is sort of the XTC of managers. I say XTC because I remember many years ago hearing an XTC song I liked — probably something basic like “Mayor of Simpleton” — and thinking: “Hmm, I should see if they had done any other albums.” And I went into a record store* and looked at the XTC section and found that they had released, oh, approximately 873 previous albums.
*For you kids out there, a record store where they used to sell records. This usually involved at least one scruffy-looking kid with a black T-shirt featuring a band you’ve never heard of who would mock whatever pathetic musical selection you dared bring to the register. Jack Black got him exactly right.
So it is with Hodgson, who has best I can tell been manager of 16 different teams — some of the clubs, some of them national teams, and in seven countries. And he seems to be quite an old-school character, sort of a Jim Leyland of soccer. “You have to be a benevolent dictator,” he told The Independent in a story about him that was titled, charmingly, “I don’t believe in innovation.”
I am actually quite excited about watching today’s Champion’s League Final between Manchester United and FC Barcelona. I don’t have a dog in the fight — don’t even know much about the two teams other than the game will supposedly match the consensus best players in the world: Manchester United’s Cristiano Ronaldo and Barcelona’s Lionel Messi. Maybe we’ll throw some live comments on the bottom here during the match. Maybe.
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Throw the comments in; I’ll read them!
An XTC reference?!?
Joe, yours is the greatest blog, ever.
BTW, you should buy “English Settlement” RIGHT NOW if haven’t already.
Man U are the Yankees of football. Any self-respecting fan without a vested interest should root for Barcelona, who plays a really beautiful, crisp, fluiding, attacking brand of football.
I wonder how one settles on Fulham as a side to back? I made the arbitrary decision to support Tottenham about 5 years ago (I love a loser), and then was chagrined when Bill Simmons made the same arbitrary decision.
Joe,
How many chapters do you devote in your book The Machine describing how if Jim Rice had not broken his hand the Red Sox would have swept the Reds and they would have gone down as a disappointment in the same league with the late 50s Braves of Aaron, Mathews, Spahn and Burdette?
Just kidding.
I was home last year for some reason and actually watched the Champions League Championship between Man U and Chelsea. High level soccer is fun to watch, they can do some amazing things with that ball.
Royal Blue: I came to that same decision re: Tottenham, and had the same disheartening feeling re: Sports Guy.
Agreed, if you don’t have a vested interest in either team, root for Barcelona. They are amazing to watch when they are playing in their top form – their passing is simply sublime. Plus, since Man U essentially = The Yankees, then Cristiano Ronaldo essentially = A Rod (but with much less steroids and much, much more whining).
Royal Blue — United may be the Yankees in terms of payroll and global brand, but you can’t knock them for the style of football they play. This isn’t Chelsea we’re talking about.
I’ve been a Barcelona supporter for many years here in Los Angeles, so I just have to throw a Go Barca! in here before the match starts.
Joe, as a former black t-shirt wearing record store employee I feel compelled to ask for Top Ten Records for a Rainy Day in Boston.
I totally agree, Jake. Manchester is engaging to watch, and I respect Fergie and many of their players. Chelsea, on the other hand, is an atrocity. I am having a hard time thinking of a sports franchise that has had as much success while ruining the elements that make their sport interesting in the first place. The Baltimore Ravens? Big 10(Wisconsin)Basketball? The Bad Boy Pistons? The Big Red Machine (just kidding!!)?
Someone needs to start a rumor that the Twins are close to acquiring Miguel Tejada.They’re offering Glen Perkins and Wilson Ramos. The deal is contingent on Perkins passing his physical. The Astros should jump at that. Plus, I think Tejada would be good for one year (free agent after 09). I just want his name to get into Twins dialogue. Maybe we can have them throw in The Hawk.
Joe, we Fulham supporters won’t begrudge you your busy year; plenty of good seats are still available on the (nonexistent) bandwagon if you want to join us once the fall rolls around. If you’re looking for online coverage to get the feel of things, I highly recommend the Craven Cottage Newsround at http://cravencottagenewsround.wordpress.com/, which was recently recognized as Best Blog by Football Fans Census. The writer cited Baseball Prospectus in one of today’s posts (really!), does a TON of good analysis, and even works in some music talk, just like a certain baseball writer I know; definitely worth a look.
Joe, we’re glad to have you on board as a Fulham fan, even if you didn’t get to watch a whole lot. Hopefully we’ll be on TV a bit more next year, might make things a bit easier!
Being born and raised in Northern England in ’59 I have followed my home town of Carlisle United (League One) for 40 years, first time at a game having to stand on a cake tin to be able to see over the wicker fence.
The English tend to stick with their home team through thick and thin and I’ve seen way too much thin with my team.
Those who grew up in the greater Manchester area, Liverpool or London have had more than their fair share of good times but that is where they come from…
But like someone born and living in Seattle following the Redsox…can’t quite figure that out.
Fulham seem to be a good, fair choice for an American to get into footie, no bandwagon to jump on, a credible, scrappy team with a few solid players (Hangeland) and a well renowned manager (Hodgson, who managed a Swedish team for a while and learned very good Swedish too!) and a non spectacular stadium, I’ve been to Craven Cottage, their pies tasted awful!
As with my age, and anyone else’s in England, music was and still is a very important art of the cultural background and we used to travel a lot to see bands in the mid 70′s and early 80′s including XTC, a very good live band, great musicians and observers of life in general. “Drums and Wire” and “Black Sea” are very good early career albums “Skylarking” later…
Cottagers abounding! I miss Boca in white…
I really don’t like either of these teams, but am leaving work in ten minutes to go to the bar and get drunk on a wednesday watching two of the best teams in the world go at it.
hooray for the end of the month!
Joe – My God, when do you find time to sleep?
Maybe Manchester United are the Yankees, but Barcelona is not precisely your Tampa Bay Rays or something like that… I’m not basketball aware, but I believe this matchup is more like a Lakers-Celtics clash, keeping the proportions of course.
I’m going to do something right now that that will likely annoy everyone, but I’m going to do it anyway. Please forgive me, I am not a professional scold, I swear.
“I don’t have a dog in the fight” is a horrible phrase to turn. I don’t know what you’re stance is on dog fighting, but I can only assume that you are 100% against it. If you are in fact 100% against dog fighting, then the phrase has no more place in your writing than any other relic of the less enlightened beforetimes. Is it as bad as casual racism or misogyny? Maybe not, but it’s in the same league- dog fighting is horrible and we shouldn’t diminish its horror by tossing off phrases that originated in its culture.
I remember seeing the highlights of Man U’s semifinal. Literally seconds away from losing, they scored and advanced on aggregate goals on the road.
And THAT, unfortunately, kind of sums up why a lot of Americans find it difficult to really follow the footie. There are so many draws, you couldn’t just have a best of three – they’d wind up probably tied anyway. But the tiebreaks seem somewhat odd.
Some New York City bias here but I am surprised at how much excitement there is for this match. Lotta people talking about it at work and been getting e-mails about it all day.
This thing moves to Saturday next year. Mixed blessing. Makes it a lot easier for people to see it but you lose the giddy thrill of going to a bar when you’re supposed to be at work.
Go Barcelona.
Joe-
You could certainly do worse than backing the Cottagers. They’re surprise beatdown of ManU about 8 weeks ago was great stuff, plus Americans Clint Dempsey & Carlos Bocanegra play for them. As an Arsenal fan myself, I’m supposed to not like Fulham, since they’re a cross-London rival. However, I spend much more energy hating Chelsea, ManU, & Tottenham, in that order. I guess that tells you I’m rooting for Barca today. Get Fox Soccer Channel and a DVR and you can watch several English matches each week along with great highlight and analysis shows. Here’s hoping we can look forward to some soccer commentary from the world’s best sportswriter! Finally, for the record, Chelsea are the Yankees of soccer because they just buy a ton of big names and hope it works and whine when it doesn’t. ManU are more like the Patriots, having built a system that develops players, not being afraid to jettison big names, and keeping the right mix of ridiculous talent and steady role players. Still hate them, but not the Yankees.
mkd you’re right, that was annoying.
nightfly: The away goals rule can’t be used as a reason for Americans not to get into soccer. Considering most Americans find soccer to be boring, if anything, the away goal rule helps by forcing visiting teams to not bolt themselves down in defense.
I think that to like any particular game, it boils down to one of the following: having seriously practiced the sport, having a vested interest as a fan, or observing many matches to appreciate the intricacies of the game. I’m from Brazil. Even though we moved away from Recife to Brasília, my Dad made sure that I was still a fan of his hometown team. I still am, though I live in DC now, and I listen to every single one of their game on a crappy AM station that broadcasts online.
Now, when it comes to baseball, I felt like a lot of my American friends feel regarding soccer. I thought it was boring as hell. Yet, I went to a bunch of ball games with my friends, either in Pittsburgh or in DC (not big name teams by any stretch), and only after going a bunch of times could I really see the game theory involved in all of it. Then some friends told me about this blog, and then Bill James, and Fire Joe Morgan, and Moneyball, and they lent me the Ken Burns PBS DVDs, and before I know it, I’m a baseball fan–albeit, a Nationals fan. In some sense, I wish I hadn’t been told about Bill James and all that stuff, because it sucks to be aware that yours is an NL team with the 3rd highest OPS capable of being 12.5 games behind in a division where the leader’s only won 25 games so far.
So give soccer a chance, in the end you might realize you enjoy it. I mean… the World Cup, for crying out loud! There is nothing quite like it–not even the Olympics.
Is it ok to say I don’t have my cock in this fight?
Another vote for Barca here — I’m an Arsenal fan, but Barca is my favorite Spanish team, and I’m wearing their jersey under my shirt at the office today. Recording the game for later, but I have a feeling I’m going to slip out in about an hour to watch the 2nd half live. I’m so nervous I’m not getting much done today anyway.
dont worry leads did just as bad. kind of like sexting with your partner who has no clue what your acronyms are. hahahah http://tinyurl.com/6berrp
Following Spurs is like following the Mets. They have very high regard for themselves, but players go their to forget how to play.
If you’re an American looking for a club, find one with an American (Rovers for me from when Brad was there). Fulham is a good choice.
It is impossible to start rooting for a team or sport you never played if you don’t have a true vested interest. I grew up in Germany, played for a Club team there, and still avidly follow their A-side… also went to London when I was 11 and visited Stamford Bridge, hence choosing Chelsea to root for in England (this was before the Premier League).
If you do not have other friends who also follow the games and discuss them, it likely will not hold your interest. You need to get into a fantasy league – http://fantasy.premierleague.com/
If we stopped using words because of their less-than-pristine origins, it would be very hard to speak. Sometimes you need to respect words for exactly what they are: words. They only hold the weight you put on them. Plus, dog fighting will never be in the same world as racism. Racism involves the degradation of people, and as much as I love my greyhounds, I would gladly put them to sleep in order to save a human life. That’s not to say dog fighting is right, because it’s not, and it’s a crime for a reason, but we’re starting to humanize animals more than we do people, and it’s weirdin’ me out.
“If we stopped using words because of their less-than-pristine origins, it would be very hard to speak.”
Like what?
My wife was a soccer player through college, and so I got interested in the sport, and we wanted to go to a game while in England for our honeymoon several years ago.
Being from San Antonio, when I found out the premier league had a Spurs, too, I was hooked. We saw a great game against Man City on a lovely May afternoon, and I was forever hooked.
Now I yell “Come on, you Spurs!” at basketball games instead of the preferred “Go Spurs Go!” just to be a little different.
As much as I hate to see it, I love watching ManU play; they are very fluid and attack beautifully. But almost all of my soccer watching is EPL until the elimination rounds of the champions league, so I just don’t have the same familiarity.
Joe,
I’m an avid reader of yours from Philly. It’s good to see a sports writer trying to enjoy the world’s game. I’ve adopted Liverpool, due to my father-in-law being from Liverpool and brother-in-law living over there now. It’s a great sport to watch and follow. It’s also great simply due to the early Satruday and Sunday games, and early afternoon weekday games that compete against no other sporting events. Fulham is a good squad to pick, with lots of American connections.
Royal Blue, Chelsea is like the New Jersey Devils of the 90′s.
Also, Barcelona is like the Green Bay Packers. I believe they are owned by shareholders, not owners. They also don’t take any corporate sponsorship mnoney for the jerseys, advertise UNICEF on teh jersey and actually donate around $2 million instead.
I’m an American who lived in England for a few years over a decade ago. Unfortunately, my local team was Leeds United, so I’ve had the pleasure of watching them get relegated twice. But I have some nice memories of Champions League. Leeds is like my baseball team, actually (the Orioles). They were once good, but then got saddled with lots of huge contracts from a misguided pursuit of a title (misguided because we didn’t win). We both live in the shadow of another regional team we absolutely despise (Yankees/ Man U). And both have been pretty depressing losers the last ten years.
Following a Division One team in the US is nearly impossible, so I’ll admit, I tend to pull for Fullham in the Premiership just because of Boca and Dempsey. But don’t let anyone ever convince you otherwise: Man U is pure, unmitigated evil. Rooting for Man U, or the Yankees, is a character flaw.
Why are we even talking about soccer? There’s a reason it doesn’t play here in the states. The rest of the world claims baseball is boring and then they watch SOCCER?
I like watching soccer. No commercials and a well played game has a smooth flow.
There are a lot of similarities between soccer and baseball especially when you consider that with both you can spend a LOT of time waiting for something to happen but if you know what to look for the little things can get your pulse racing.
Some numbers you may or may not find interesting as we wind down this brilliant Barca performance.
The average NFL team scores 2.4 touchdowns a game and the games typically take about 3 hours and 15 minutes.
The average team in the Champions League scores 1.3 goals per game and the games take about two hours.
Is the rate of scoring really all that different?
Watching Messi rise up and push that ball into the corner, how can anyone say sccer is boring?
Interesting comment Mikey, but there are some real difference. One for example is if you have a one goal lead, you can basically defense your way to victory, whereas in american football, rarely do you see anybody play defense only to keep a 7 point lead. Also crappy teams don’t play for a draw by playing bunker style defense.
The Fulham fans on here are a little out of date. My reason as an ex-pat for following Fulham was the multiple Americans on the team, including Brian McBride, who was their captain, and was in recent years one of the few (probably the only) influential American player in the Premier League who was not a goalkeeper. McBride is gone, as is Bocanegra. Dempsey is still there. Reading had a couple of Americans during their too brief run in the Premier League as well.
And while I miss American sports (I used to stay up late for big games, but that’s getting hard to do), I’m convinced that you can learn to love pretty much any competitive endeavor, particularly where the participants are excelling at something difficult and there is a passionate audience cheering them on.
The internet is wonderful in that I can still follow my teams in amazingly close detail, but it’s also odd that I find myself paying close attention to players who I’ve never actually seen play. The harder problem is how to teach my little boy not just how to throw a baseball or football, but to understand those sports. We’ll see how that goes. The first time I smell fresh cut grass in the spring, I’m instantly brought back to little league and going to sleep listening to Harry Kalas and Richie Ashburn on my AM/FM clock radio. Makes me a little sad that my son won’t have that association, but he’ll have his own and that’s how it should be.
@Dominic – although, to be fair, gridiron football has the prevent defense. Ick and yawn.
@Natstown – I enjoy a well-played soccer match myself. World Cup is huge, the Olympics are huge, it’s sport on the highest level and I’m with you on that. I’m just saying that deciding a two-leg match on aggregate is understandable; using goals scored by the visiting team as a tiebreaker if the aggregate is level is kind of like deciding the World Series based on who stranded fewer baserunners, or a basketball series by who had more offensive rebounds. It makes precious little sense; in short, yet another obstacle to basic understanding if you haven’t been brought up to it. Let them play a golden-goal session, or even take it to penalty kicks. Though I’m no big fan of shootouts in general, I think an actual winning score is preferable to the current soccer system.
PS – sorry about the Nats. I’m an Islanders fan (NHL) so I can definitely feel your frustration.
Dominic, you obviously know nothing about football (soccer)
Barcelona have never tried to “defense” for a minute in their history. They attack from thhe 1st minute to the last.
That was a great game and as full of drama and emotion as any Yanks-Sox game i’ve seen (almost). and the best team won
UKYankee – I’ve thought about this because there’s no way you can be *that* good and ignore defending. If anything it’s what sets Barca apart from previous incarnations.
I put my amateur analyst hat on and tried to work out how it is that they can play such an adventurous game and not concede lots of goals. It’s hard to tell on TV, but some things stood out:
1) Busquets hardly ever went forwards. He stood right in front of the back four, sometimes right in it, so whenever United did attack Barcelona always had a fair number back. It also freed the more creative players: Xavi-Inieste-Henry-Eto’o-Messi to rampage as they wished.
2) But Xavi and Iniesta – two of the finest footballers I’ve seen – are terrifically hard working in the middle of the park so it wasn’t all one way traffic from them. They were quick to get back too. Indeed, the whole Barcelona team pressed United hard, so United couldn’t get any rhythm going.
3) This was a problem. Barcelona have the ball so bloody often that it’s again hard for opponents to build an attacking rhythm. How often does Michael Carrick look flustered? He did tonight. He hardly saw the ball, and when he did he was harrassed. United were starved of possession so had fewer opportunities to test the Barca defence.
4) And then I suppose United were half-cautious about really attacking because with Messi, Eto’o and Henry revving up for a counter, and Xavi and Iniesta to pick out the passes, well, you’ve got to worry about that haven’t you? I didn’t see a great deal of evidence of this tonight, but it’s a consideration.
That’s how I think Barcelona get away with playing such an attacking game. I think they won the match because United couldn’t establish any control in the middle of the pitch. Xavi and Iniesta, with Messi always showing for the pass, were just dominant in there. Carrick and Giggs were nowhere. It’s tempting to wonder how a Fletcher/Hargreaves midfield might have done. Of course, dominating the midfield is no use if you fire blanks up front, but Barcelona are absolutely deadly going forwards, so it really was crucial that United head them off at the pass and control the middle of the pitch. They completely failed to do so and got thoroughly outplayed.
The other answer is that Barcelona were just out of this world, and that’s all we need to know. It was beautiful to watch.
(that was a straight c+p from my latest post on Craven Cottage Newsround – thanks for the shout, Josh – but seemed germane)
Joe (and everyone) – we’ve had a load of ‘mericans coming over to watch Fulham games in recent times, and almost all have had fun. I’d recommend the trip next season if you can.
Anyone know of a good way to watch European football online? I tried sopcast for the promotion playoffs but it was pointless. I should have kept my DirecTV and Setanta Sports channel.
I went a little more obscure for my footy fix. Read up on the history in England and decided the first champs would be my team – Preston North End. Playoffs this year, promotion next year! Plus there’s the Wallace & Gromit connection.
Some Americans truly & adamantly believe they like soccer, but I am not convinced that they actually do.
It’s like jazz, alot of people say they love it but few actually listen.
It’s just not our bag baby!
I have tried to get into it and just can’t. Tried joining a fantasy league, picking a team, following some good players. Like Joe & many others I just could not gain momentum and just lost interest.
There is one thing taht still fascinates me about soccer. Fan riots and that’s about all.
“in american football, rarely do you see anybody play defense only to keep a 7 point lead”
Having been a Steeler fan under Bill Cowher for many years, I beg to differ.
Obviously the differences between football and futbol are without number. I just offer it as kind of an interesting comeback to the common complaint that soccer is too low-scoring for Americans to embrace.
Well Joe your post on Fulham ends up being rather Fulhamish. If you intend to remain a fan of the team, you should learn what this word means. As one of the fans awaiting one of your brilliantly entertaining posts dedicated to my favorite team in all of sports, the result was just a bunch of talk about ManU and Barcelona.
Anyway, thanks for following up with a post about Fulham. It is too bad that you did not get to follow the EPL and Fulham more closely. Maybe next year!
@ UKYankee,
No need to be so sensitive dude, you shouldn’t take it personally if Americans don’t like soccer. I’m a fan of Liverpool myself and had to endure all those draws to crappy teams in the middle of the season. What I said is 100% true, crappy teams play for draws and they’re best shot is 0-0, 1-1. I know you don’t like to hear that, but sorry. Barca most definitely is not a crappy team, but I guarantee you if it was Sunderland playing Man U, 90% of the action would take place on their half. Disagree?
One good footy viewing source is veetle.com — some kids from Stanford created the site, and there is software to download, but it hasn’t hurt my computer at all.
Watching Preston may take a little more work — their league is the Championship, which is the strangely named league that is their equivalent of AAA ball, it’s hard to find. ESPN 360 sometimes is a good source also.
The Jim Leyland comparison to Roy is dead on! I wish I had thought of that. You missed a lot of fun this year Joe, come back next year. The season will start in mid August.
I once bought an XTC cassette(shows my age)on behest of a good review by Rolling Stone. I may as well have taken my 9 dollars and threw it in a sewer. Can’t even remember the title of the tape, circa 1988.
The optimal time for a baseball game is one that is quick-paced enough so that the “fans” don’t think they need to entertain themselves by the wave or beachballs.
Why can’t people that don’t like soccer just be happy with liking what they like and not always feel the need to denegrate it? You can also substitute hockey for soccer in the previous statement.
Deacon,
Given your backgraound, how do you purport to speak for fans who never played the game or knew anyone who did? I was never exposed to the game as a child and now thoroughly enjoy it!
This usually involved at least one scruffy-looking kid with a black T-shirt featuring a band you’ve never heard of who would mock whatever pathetic musical selection you dared bring to the register.
I recall many years ago when my friend and I went to the local record store so he could pick up some music. While checking out, the clerk looked over my friend’s choices, and derisively said, “You still listening to this crap?”
To which my friend responded, with brilliant timing, “You still making minimum wage, dumbass?”
Knocked the kid speechless.
I always thought XTC were amazing songwriters, but if Andy Partridge (i believe) had not gone all Dontrelle Willis on us, they would have toured more often and developed more than a cult following outside of England (or Europe anyway).
But sorry Joe – English Settlement is without a doubt the best XTC album – and a prerequisite in Alternative Music 101.
I followed Tottenham a bit too in the early 2000s. Well, I didn’t do very much following but if I happened to see some EPL scores, I would check them out. Primarily and solely it was because of Kasey Keller. I guess it’s strange to be interested in a team because of their goaltender but the National team was such that only the goalies were good enough to play in the top leagues and I was impressed by their world class status.
Dominic
Apologies!
I too am a Red….we spent most of the season…including games againt Utd (the scum) and Chelski trying to break down defences for 90 odd minutes.
Amen to Barcelona….thank Mariano for Utd finally getting what they deserve.
They have been very fortunate this year….and for the 1st time in 19 years…we’ve been the best team
YNWA
Mikey – I’ve always wondered this: If they decided to make each goal worth 7 points, started awarding 3 points for sending a free kick over the bar and into row Z, and 2 points for conceding a corner, would American fans still complain about low scoring?
Natstown,
Which team? Sport, Nautico, or Santa Cruz? Just curious. I was just in Recife (actually, Porto de Galinhas) last week and bought a Sport jersey (the gold one they used in the Libertadores).
As an American expat currently living in Brazil, the biggest problem with picking one of the smaller teams in any of the leagues, including Brazil’s, is finding that team’s games on TV. I’m simply incapable of becoming invested in a team only through following them primarily on the internet. I have to watch their games. Unfortunately, EPL games shown here focus heavily, nay almost exclusively, on the big four. I think they must have shown 5 Fulham games this year, at best. Its just really hard to get into them and develop a passion for them when you can’t see them every week.
Really glad to see soccer pop up again on this blog. I’m even more glad that you were watching United lose. I cannot stand Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov… ugh. Can’t stand them. Barca are just a joy to watch and Xavi and Iniesta are unbelievably gifted, dedicated players that don’t get noticed enough in light of Messi and other, showier players like Ronaldo. They ran the game. Unreal.
And it’s amazing to me how many of my fellow Americans “hate” soccer and “think it’s so boring” and yet never actually watch a game. Or if they do, they’re simply watching for all the points of the game that they hate to further reinforce the judgements they’ve already come to. I know it’s not for everyone, but the arrogant vitriol from alot of Americans is… baffling. If you don’t care for it, don’t watch it. End of.
Anyway, credit to Fulham. They had a great year. Hodgson was manager of the year. Absolutely. Hope my Gunners can be playing in next year’s version of this game. Up the Gunners! Forget the rest (especially Spurs).
@19
“I remember seeing the highlights of Man U’s semifinal. Literally seconds away from losing, they scored and advanced on aggregate goals on the road.”
Ummm what game were you watching? Man U destroyed Arsenal in the semis. I think you mean Barcelona squeezing into the final with their late equaliser at Chelsea.
The final was not a bad match although it is a shame that Man U didn’t really turn up. All credit to Barca for winning and playing well but their victory came more off the back of United’s errors then Barca’s dominant play. That is the way football goes sometimes though.
I think Roy Hodgson was manager of the year in the premiership if you are looking for someone not named Alex Ferguson. The way he has transformed Fulham has been marvellous to watch and they have had several fantastic results most notably beating Man U 2-0 at home. They deserve to be in Europe and I hope they can make the signings needed to contend with the large number of extra fixtures*.
*The Europa League format cannot last long as adding more games to a cup that nobody really values int he first place is not the way to reinvigorate interest.
Joe, why don’t you support the Kansas City Wizards or talk a little more about MLS? You’re obviously acknowledging the game and its relevance by posting on the day of the Champions League final, but you only talk about the Wizards when that David Beckham guy came to town. The Wizards employ Claudio Lopez, a two-time World Cup performer. Their Technical Director is Peter Vermes, one of the trailblazers of this generation of American soccer. One of their youth coaches is Paul Rideout, former Everton star who helped them beat Manchester United 1-0 in the 1995 FA Cup final.
Those are some pretty legit credentials.
I moved to England in 1982 when I was 5 and became a fan of the local team (Ipswich Town FC) but moved back to the states in 1986 right after they were relegated to Division 2 (now Championship League). We moved back to England in 1989 and Ipswich was still relegated so i got to see lots of Liverpool on TV (Ian Rush, Beardsley, Barnes, Grobbea…..lar, etc.) so and began to root for them. It wasn’t until 1992 that Ipswich came back to Premier leage and my loyalties shifted back to Ipswich. I still root for Liverpool if Ipswich isn’t in the premier league but Ipswich is my team…and their tough to follow when they’re in the Championship League but I’m so glad Norwich City was relegated this year.
By the way XTC was pretty darned good (had some great singles).
Geoffrey – you’re right, of course, and thanks for the correction. Got my semis mixed up. My brain remembered Chelsea and for some reason thought that Man U had to be the opponent, since they’re both Premier League; sort of like in American leagues, how the conferences play each other until the finals. My brain had Barcelona playing a different team. My brain is kinda stupid like that…
wow..i had numerous errors in my post…..sorry.
João, thankfully I’m a Sport fan–though I couldn’t bring myself to get a jersey that’s not red and black. I lived in Recife between the ages of 7 and 18, and was able to go to just about any game because the price wasn’t prohibitive. Television coverage (and revenue from broadcasting rights) is a real problem for teams in “smaller markets” when it comes to soccer, just as it is for most sports. I was hooked from a young, impressionable age, thanks to my Dad. Otherwise, everyone in Brazil would root for Flamengo, courtesy of the Globo network.
Joe,
Don’t waste your time with the English Premier League; I don’t get why people here in the US are obssessed with it. If you want to watch good soccer (and if you have satelite) watch the Brazilian league. Or even the Spanish or Italian Leagues.
1 … 2 … 3 … 4 … 5 … senses working overtime.
@65
Beeeecause the Brazilian league is 4th class players and a 4th class league and Serie A (apart from Roma, Milan, and maybe another side or two) is highly defensive and boring. I do enjoy La Liga, though. Highly technical game where more teams get up and go for it, no matter their table position.
Overall, though, the EPL is the strongest league in the world. Sure, they have media hype to drive that rep, but they also had three out of four CL semi-finalists this year, both finalists last year, and continually bring in the world’s best players.
Robert Denby #52 –
This was probably (I assume) long before the advent of this phrase, but my first reaction to your friend’s comeback was, “Oh, snap!” I bet it was a long time before that clerk decided to dump on somebody’s musical taste again.
Drew #60 –
Watching the MLS after watching the UCL would be like spending your summer watching the WNBA after this year’s NBA playoffs. Which is truly a shame, because I think soccer could become a more popular sport here now that some many kids play it.
I am sure that this is one of the reasons baseball has been so popular: EVERYONE (or at least every guy) has played baseball at some time at some level, so they (1) are familiar with the game, its rules, and its nuances (OK, maybe not so much the nuances), and (2) can boo A-Rod or Carlos Beltran or whomever while saying, “I can (or could, back in my youth) do better than that.”
“so many”, not “some many”. Crikey!
It’s late, I’m tired, and I need to go home.
@67: Don’t hate on the Brazilian league! It’s hard to remain stocked with talent when the fourth-rate players are transferred to the European leagues to become the best known players in the planet!
I’m with you, Drew. I love soccer, but mostly follow MLS because it’s our league, I can relate to the players/teams/cities, and I can actually see games in person. It’s much more authentic to me than randomly picking some team from England where I have no genuine attachment. EPL snobbery irks me.
Sorry, I can’t watch the Brazilian league — the stereotype of soccer players as diving little puffballs thrives on Brazil league games. There’s less diving in England than any other big league in the world, Cristina Ronaldo and Drogba aside, but even those two nancies have cleaned up their act some this year.
So happy ManU lost!
And excited that there’s another Leeds fan on this blog!
The Norwich City Canaries will be back! On the ball, City!
Barry Butler: Don’t you mean “Let’s Be Having You!”
Rich #42 – I was reading through your post thinking, “I could swear I’ve read this before.”
Mikey #20 – Playing hooky to watch the game is only fun if you actually do so; for a lot of us it’s tough to justify so we wind up watching on DVR when we get home. I think the move to a Saturday is a great one.
I’m also Leeds United fan on this blog. That makes 3 of us in our misery.
>>>>Barry Butler: Don’t you mean “Let’s Be Having You!”
Ouch.
I do not think Man U are the Yankees just because they each have great success in their sports leagues. Chelsea is a lot closer to the Yankees in sheer big spending and hype plus an outsider owner who while looks like a bumbling fool makes up for it with his wealth output on the Blues despite the constant management changes. Abramovich is more Steinbrenner than anybody else in the football world save Silvio Berlusconi.
Barcelona is a lot like Montreal in Quebec. Being Catalan in Spain is something to take pride in, being a Catalan footballer who players for Barcelona is just like all the great Quebecois players who played for the Habs, plus just as successful. I am an Arsenal fan and it makes me sick we are now connected to the Red Sox because of the stupid Farrelly brothers film based on the brilliant Hornsby book that is relatable for any fan, not just Boston Red Sox fans.
@#71
Please it is hardly snobbery. I watch EPL, Spanish, German, and Brazilian leagues with an occasional splash of Italian and Scottish. MLS is a third-rate league, it is not even a question. How can I feel attached to a team with boring soccer in a large mausoleum of a ground that is covered in tarp? The US has made gains considering they went centuries without even a legit system of player development but the only way the US succeeds is if we have successful international players in other leagues. Brazilian League is not the strongest but Robinho and Ronaldinho are top players nationally and they compete for World Cups.
Honestly a lot of English folk do not feel like they have the need for geographical attachments like here in the States. I find more news about Liverpool FC in London, that’s like hearing more LA news in New York. I also see as many Gerrard and Rooney jerseys in London when I should be seeing Lampard, Terry, and Fabregas. I live in apart of the US where I am in no man’s land regarding pro sports teams so I can relate to just picking and choosing. Hardly random attachment, these teams are on TV, online, and you can connect with other fans around the world. Hell, 3 Leeds United fans discovered each other on here.
#75 — Joe, if you don;t know what they are talking about, this’ll help — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ocO1Uq8UpA&feature=related Delia Smith is the English Martha Stewart and owns Norwich FC. Her team was getting their ass kicked by Man United one day and she went a little haywire here. Funny stuff, but there are worse things than your chairwoman getting entirely behind your team when they’re in a bad situation, even if she has a couple of pops in her.
EPL translations:
Chelsea= New York Yankees.
ManUre= Duke basketball.