Phillips Screwdriver
Posted: May 18th, 2009 | Filed under: Baseball, Media | 77 Comments »
One of my favorite things when I was a kid was watching the oddsmaker Jimmy the Greek match up football teams on the old NFL Today pregame show. CBS had set up one of those high-tech boards — kind of like the one in the gameshow Password Plus — where the piece of cardboard would slide out to reveal check marks. This team would get a check mark for having the better offense, but the other team might get the check mark for better defense. Then, if I remember right, there was coaching and homefield advantage.
And finally, there were “intangibles.” Even as a kid, I loved the irony of Jimmy the Greek giving one team an edge in “intangibles.” To me, it was like a grownup version of “Cooties” — this girl has more cooties than that girl. But Jimmy would do it all right, and he would explain those intangibles too. He would say that this team was playing better so they had an edge in intangibles, or that team wasn’t very good on the road so they had a disadvantage in intangibles, and it was all quite enjoyable.
As I got older, though, I started to realize that there is something troubling about intangibles … people tend to use them whenever they want to make a point that makes no tangible sense. I worked in a factory for a while, and there was this guy in there that everybody liked. He had a good sense of humor, and he always made sure to say hello to everyone, and he buttered up the boss, and he would always offer to buy the person next to him a can of Coke when he went to the break room. Good guy. But he didn’t do squat. I mean, he didn’t do ANYTHING. Trucks would come with boxes, and he was nowhere to be found. Barrels needed to be moved, and he was nowhere to be found. Then, you’d run into him, and he’d say he was doing something, and he’d tell you a joke and offer to buy you a Coke, and life went on. THAT guy had intangibles. He also was virtually worthless.
I bring this up because Sunday night, ESPN announcer Steve Phillips apparently found a way to rip Carlos Beltran. Now, I want to make this very clear: Carlos Beltran is hitting .378 with power, and he he has walked more times than he has struck out. He is on pace to steal 30 bases while getting caught five times. He has won center field Gold Gloves each of the last three seasons, and he deserved them all — he has won the Fielding Bible* award as the best center fielder in baseball two of the last three years.
*I always point out: I’m on the Fielding Bible panel. But I’m only one man!
Beltran has also been the best base runner in the game the last seven or eight years. He has faltered a touch this year, but he has been a +32 base runner every year since 2002 — that’s 32 more bases than the average base runner every single year (going first to third, second to home, first to home on a double, stolen bases, etc).
My point is not to say that Carlos Beltran is above criticism. My point is to say that … well, yeah, at the moment, Carlos Beltran is above criticism. Are you kidding me? A brilliant defensive center fielder who hits, hits with power, steals bases, runs the bases, draws walks … and this year, so far, he’s hitting .379. Is he perfect? Of course not. But if you want to judge him by certain criteria … well, hey, wait a minute, here’s some criteria right here, courtesy of Steve Phillips himself (quotes from this insightful article from the typically insightful Ted Berg):
“That guy who’s a good baserunner, a good defender, doesn’t give up at-bats, gets the hit when you need the hit, drives in a run when you need the run, always seems to be in the right position. I think the good teams have that guy … that singular flawless player that in every aspect of the game, lead.”
Sure. Lots of teams have good defenders and good base runners who get the hit when you need the hit and drive in the run when you need the run and always seem to be in the right position and lead and also are flawless. Absolutely. Can’t have a team without one of those guys.
So, who would fit all that? Mighty Hercules?*
*Hercules! Hero of song and story!
Hercules! Winner of ancient glory!
Fighting for the right! Fighting with his might!
With the strength of ten ordinary men!
Hercules! People are safe when near him!
Hercules! Only the evil fear him!
Softness in his eyes! Iron in his thighs!
Virtue in his heart! Fire in every part of the Mighty Hercules!
Well, how about Albert Pujols. Sure. Steve Phillips pointed him out quickly, though it should be noted that Steve Phillips’ Mets did have 13 chances to draft Pujols just like everyone else, and swung and missed. Anyway, how about Pujols? He’s the best player in the game, I’ve said that a million times. So can he be Steve Phillips’ Mighty Hercules?
Good baserunner: Yeah, he’s good. But that check mark goes to Beltran.
Good defender: Pujols is an excellent first baseman. Beltran is a world-class centerfielder. Check mark to Beltran.
Doesn’t give up at-bats: Check mark to Pujols, though Beltran is on-basing .473 at the moment.
Gets the hit when you need the hit/drives in the run when you need the run: Check mark to Pujols, but Beltran is no slouch in the clutch. There are some pretty decent playoff numbers that prove the point.
Always seems to be in the right position: And here we have the bull hockey — the intangibles. What is this supposed to mean? No, really, what? Carlos Beltran has driven in 100 runs and scored 100 runs eight times in his career. Seems to me, that’s where he’s supposed to be.
Flawless? Leader?: No idea. Check mark to Jimmy the Greek.
Well, it sure looks like Beltran holds his own. You want to put him up against Dustin Pedroia? Chipper Jones? Kevin Youkilis. These are the players Steve Phillips mentioned. Beltran’s a much better base runner than any of them. I would say he’s a better defender than any of them, though you could argue for Pedroia.
Chipper Jones is a better hitter — he’s a GREAT hitter — but he has not played even 140 games in a season since 2003 which would make it difficult to give him the “Always in the right place” check mark.
Dustin Pedroia has had one good year and he put up a 122 OPS+ in that year.
Kevin Youkilis has had one good year and he’s a barely average runner, at best.
My point is not to knock those guys. They’re great players. They do some things better than Beltran. And there are other things they don’t do as well. If you want to have a fair fight and compare what they do, how they play the game, fine. But saying stuff like this drives me mad:
“I think at times, while he puts up some numbers, his game is inconsistent. There are times where, in pressure situations, he hasn’t gotten the job done.”
See? Here we go. Even though Beltran puts up “some numbers” his game is “inconsistent.”
Some numbers = tangible.
Inconsistent = intangible.
Carlos Beltran is actually quite consistent. He’s a great centerfielder year after year. That takes consistency. He is the best percentage base stealer in baseball history. That takes consistency. He has, as mentioned, scored 100 runs, driven in 100 RBIs eight times. That takes consistency. He has only once in the last seven years hit fewer than 25 homers, driven in fewer than 100 runs, put up an OPS+ of less than 126. If anything, Beltran is TOO consistent, and that consistency has left knuckleheads demanding that he be greater than great … you know, by improving his intangibles.*
*Or is it increasing his intangibles? Monetizing his intangibles? Tangiblizing his intangibles?
One more Phillips gem:
While he has that great talent, there are times when he doesn’t play the game and make plays.
Yep, those players who don’t play the game or make plays, those are the worst kinds of players in the world. You want a player who plays the game, makes plays, a player who makes game plays, the plays gamers play to make, a player who makes plays for plays that playmakers make.
And, man, I really hate the “while he has great talent,” line … especially for a 32-year-old player has been as good as Carlos Beltran. That to me is a slap in the face — you know, lots of people have great talent. Steve Phillips may have had great talent … he was drafted in the fifth round by the Mets and he had enough speed to steal 39 bases in Class A ball one year. Like I say, lots of people have talent.
But here are the number of 32-year-old players who had already hit 250 homers and stolen 250 bases: 4.*
*Alex Rodriguez, Barry and Bobby Bonds, Carlos Beltran.
And here are the number of players who have scored 100 runs and driven in 100 RBIs eight times before they turned 32: 15.
Of those, five are eligible for the Hall of Fame. Five are in the Hall of Fame.*
*The seven active players to pull the trick: A-Rod, Pujols, Beltran, Vlad Guerrero, Chipper Jones, Manny Ramirez and Ken Griffey. A few Hall of Famers on that list too.
And, oh yeah, let’s remember again: Beltran is off to his best season so far.
Steve Phillips went on some convoluted rant about how Beltran doesn’t get a hit every single time up, didn’t slide once at home plate and overthrows his cutoff man by a mile. Yes, intangibles. Maybe these are true things … Beltran has his flaws. But I would like to point out that I have seen Albert Pujols strike out with runners in scoring position, and I saw Torii Hunter make a bad throw to the plate, and I saw Cal Ripken make a base running blunder and I saw Derek Jeter (no!) throw to the wrong base. The game is one of failure, and if an alien came down on some spaceship and was shown the entire hitting career of Ted Williams, he might say (though his four-nostril nose), “This guy sucked! He made outs half the time he came to the plate.”
The alien also would probably be a better announcer than Steve Phillips.
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circle me, bert
ahh Jimmy the Greek, wasn’t he the one who suggested black people couldn’t swim well because they weren’t bouyant enough? If so, talk about not knowing your intagibles…
Too bad Phillips isn’t still his boss…clearly he’d be willing to let Beltran go for someone who “plays the game.” (makes me wonder what game Steve-o has been watching…also makes me wonder what Carlos did to piss him off back in the day.) Logic like that article is why he’s on tv, not in baseball.
Good stuff, Joe. It’s difficult to find a more complete player than Beltran, and once again, someone is underrating him. Beltran has never hit for a *great* average so if Phillips watches him a bunch (which he probably does) he probably notices a lack of “clutch” HITS. Walks in the clutch are never viewed as much. I am not suggesting Beltran isn’t clutch, I am suggesting that a guy who doesn’t bat over .300 may be perceived as someone who doesn’t get as many hits in the clutch. But maybe I am just wrong…
http://www.statisticianmagician.com/
Having watched the game last night, I proclaim that the worst performance by a set of announcers not working for the White Sox in a generation. Watching baseball on ESPN has become basically intolerable.
Although listening to Frank White talk about hitting the ball the opposite way 58 times per game is no picnic.
I believe Al Campanis was the “blacks can’t swim or manage” guy. Jimmy the Greek said something like “blacks are better athletes because slave owners bred them to be bigger and stronger back in the day. Just look at the thigh muscles etc etc.” The actual quotes are over at Wiki.
Steve Phillips should go back to what he does best: hold fake press conferences where he pretends to be a GM on a fake news network called ESPN.
apparently carlos diddled Steve’s wife a few years back
You know what’s funniest about this? Beltran’s career line in the postseason is .366/.485/.817, for a 1.302 (!) OPS.
Of all the guys to pick on to “not hit when it matters”….
So, is he on the juice?
I’m confused. How does this further our understanding of the Greatness of Pete Rose?
Looks like the classic case of the team’s best player taking the blame for the team’s failures.
Does anyone like Phillips as a broadcaster?
Joe and Carlos sitting in a tree….
Great stuff, Joe. Beltran simply doesn’t get half the credit he deserves. He’s an amazing baseball player.
My guess is that the reason he’s not more highly thought of is he burst onto the mainstream fan’s radar with his insane playoff performance in 2004. Then he signed a big contract and people thought he wasn’t worth it because the playoff performance was obviously unsustainable, even though the true-talent Beltran is still completely worth the money.
Reminds me of Adrian Beltre, another guy who’s always criticized by people who are ignoring defense and paying way too much attention to one moment in time (in this case, his 2004 season).
Yeah, this guy is basically fish in a barrel at this point. How he ever managed to become a GM is completely beyond me.
Curtis,
Having seen a lot of Frank White this year, I can categorically say that it gets worse. Much worse.
Take Bert Blyleven. Watch one of his broadcasts sometime. On Sunday alone, I got to hear him say at least three times that A.J. Burnett led the Majors in strikeouts last season (and yes, he said Burnett led the Majors, not the AL) as if CC Sabathia and Tim Lincecum were not pitchers last year. Every game you are treated to Blyleven getting stats completely wrong, and you know it without fact-checking him. Dick Bremer is also pretty awful.
The Mariners’ color-commentator is pretty awful, although that is just catching a little action this year.
Rex Hudler when he was still doing Angels’ television broadcasts was unbearable. The Hudler statement that still sticks out to me was when during a broadcast he insisted that Adam Kennedy and Darin Erstad were the best defensive right side of the infield to ever take the field together. Kennedy and Erstad.
.269 career average in “Late and Close” situations. I’m telling you, its the average that makes him appear less “clutch.”
http://www.statisticianmagician.com/
Teej,
I don’t think Beltre’s defense makes up for his resoundingly disappointing offensive output in Seattle.
Player 1 .378/.473/.594
Player 2 .357/.425/.714
Player 3 .322/.390/.616
Who are these guys you may ask? Current lines of former outfielders of your KC Royals: Carlos Beltran, Raul Ibanez, Johnny Damon.
Steve Phillips couldn’t really play, couldn’t really Generally Manage, and can’t really grow a beard.
Okay, the last is a cheap shot, but why oh why does anyone hire him as a baseball “expert”?
Yikes.
Slight correction:
While Puj has driven in 100 runs eight times, he was a run scored shy of a century in 07, and only has seven 100-runs-scored seasons.
Another “poor Puj” fact: he’s averaging less than (depending on how you round) 100 runs scored for two seasons in a row. I remember in 03, 04 thinking “damn – anything’s possible” when he was pumping out 135 runs at Busch, just around when baseball records were being surpassed, ‘transcended’ with giddy regularity.
Curtis @ #5. You are spot on. They rendered the game unwatchable. And if players have to be drug-tested, why not commentators? Chris Berman is either on something or is not taking his meds. Either way, he’s got to be chemically unbalanced. Orel Hershiser seemed on the verge of leaving the booth a couple of times today.
Not to threadjack, but…
One thing that sucks about the whole steroids mess. With A-Rod and Manny throwing their HOF-logo-shifting hats into the ring this spring, they’ve pretty much unleashed cluster-f*cking friendly fire on every hitherto-redeemable steroid user stereotype left. Previously, we had McGwire, Bonds* and Clemens – oldies that became extra-goodies. Collectively, they cast doubt on anyone that was “good” but then overcame age or injury in their thirties.
But, for the polemics, the A-Rod and Manny admissions have now heaped suspicions on the perenially good (*Bonds defies all of this).
Time was, this is how you built the Pujols case: Concede he is 3 years his own senior. The guy hit a dozen homeruns and walked like 50 times in 90 at bats as a senior in high school, and hit a grand slam and turned an unassisted triple play in his first JUCO game (correct me if I’m wrong). And while he was too bulky as a SS prospect, the Royals – especially – whiffed big time in not picking him.
So, say Pujols OPS+ed his 170 from 24-32 instead of the purported 21-29 (big hat tip to BBTF guy(s) who made this point), big deal – he didn’t cross the Steroids Rubicon and f*ck everything up, and he’s still the Deliverer.
Well, knock about 15 or 20 pts off the career OPS+ and you got A-Rod, or add a few ribbies per 162 and you got Manimal.
Sucks, I’m Puj’s biggest fan. I haven’t been jumping ship to ship. But, damn, that scurvy in the water. Thought the ocean was bigger than that.
Just read my above post, and it’s hella wandering.
My main point is that Manny and Betray-Rod, in their hallmark constistency, in their currency, were barred from criticism. Neither fit the profile of a steroid-user, popularly-defined.
Users were freakish, fore-headed growing, past-primers clubbing yarders at fishy rates. In a certain way, they were becoming grouped into an older guard – the Bonds’, the Bagwells’, the Sosas’, the Big Macs’, the Raffies’ — the stigmatized nineties primes, and, maybe worse, the sold-to-the-devil summers of the early aughts.
“Alex” and Manny never slumped like Barry did – when he was OPS-plussing higher than they ever did in 98.
To summarize, sigh. A pox on it all? No. A sigh.
To #17, Old Man –
Since signing with the Mariners Adrian Beltre has earned $50.6 million, while his overall play has been worth $56.7 million. Check it out, http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B
Fire Joe Morgan style, eh? I like it.
This makes me miss FJM even more.
Thanks, Joe
didnt victorino win the gold glove last year? i’ll kindly not mention beltran’s game changing error last night because it wasn’t really his fault, but here is how i see intagibles. the mets lost last night because a runner didnt touch third base. This of course would make the mets a hard luck franchise if it weren’t for the fact they are in the same division as the nationals. the same nationals who lost a game the other day because the man covering first base (2nd baseman) literally got out of the way of a ball thrown directly … at the man covering first base.
Thank you Joe. Thank you. I’m a Mets fan living in DC, hungering for chances to watch my team and I shut the game off in the 5th inning. Good God, he made Joe Morgan into the voice of reason! I submit that there is no fanbase that has to deal with anything worse broadcasting-wise than having to hear your team’s former horrible GM enact some personal beef against his former employers by ripping everyone in sight. Go back and watch any ESPN boradcast of a Mets game this year (there have been a bunch) and try to find one positive line of talk about the Mets.
The inane inning-long conversation about what makes a leader was almost as bad as the anti-Beltranness. Luckily for Steve, there were some other GMs who were stupider than him at least for a day, because he tried and failed to trade minor league David Wright for Jose Cruz Jr. and minor league Jose Reyes in the deal that brought over mid-30s Roberto Alomar. But I guess that’s only because Steve knew from the get-go those two would never be leaders of men.
Someday, I would dearly love someone in Beltran’s shoes to be asked about the critical comments from the booth and reply with something like:
“Well, I take all of that with a grain of salt. You know, he’s entitled to his opinion and he’s just doing his job, and I respect that, but he is, after all, the same guy who traded for Bobby Bonilla and Mo Vaughn and Roberto Alomar and a bunch of other broken down guys with massive contracts. He’s the same guy who traded a 23-year old Jason Bay for 24 games worth of Steve Reed. So it’s not like he’s this world-class, flawless talent evaluator, youknowwhatImean? On top of that, this guy put his team in a position to have to settle a sexual harassment lawsuit because he admitted to diddling his secretary, among many other other extramarital affairs. He got canned from his only front office gig and hasn’t been employed in baseball ever since. So, you know, I’m glad he’s found work in a different profession and all, that’s great. But part of my job is to respond to all of you guys after the game, and in order to be, you know, really, really consistent at my job, I think I owe you an honest answer. Steve Phillips is an unqualified hack who failed at baseball, both as a player and a general manager, and now he appears to be failing at announcing as well. It’s kind of sad, because he’s got great hair. You know, for an older guy.”
DTRO
You’re absolutely right. The thing is i think everybody feels this way about their team. and everybody is right. I think the networks have to do a better job of putting nuetral and knowledgeable announcers in place. Too often there are biased or uninformed announcers calling games. for example, i get hyped up to watch a Phillies game on national tv only to have to hear about santa getting a snow ball thrown at him in 70s or whatever. can’t they interview jayson stark before traveling?
Did Ken Tremendous take over Joe’s computer?
I love it Joe! This made my day.
Steve Phillips is there on Sunday nights to make Joe Morgan sound less stupid.
The Phillips performance on Sunday night was the culmination of what has been a terrible idea for ESPN. Say what you want about Joe Morgan, but he and Jon Miller have become old friends for those of us who have watched the broadcast for years. Phillips is an interloper and not a good one at that.
Great piece, Mr. Posnanski, and one that needed to be written. The Mets are treated unfairly and I’m not even a fan of their team.
Amen, brother.
If we put Steve Phillips’ broadcasting (using the word loosely) career to the same tests he would rank somewhere around O.J. Simpson as an announcer and somewhere around Deion Sanders as a “baseball expert.”
I have been hatin’ on Steve Phillips since the day in the ESPN Baseball Tonight where the host asked the three panel members who was the best active lefthander in the game (this was about two years ago).
John Kruk answered Randy Johnson and immediately evoked memories of that one All-Star game.
The other panel member (forgot who) said Johan Santana
Steve Phillips, in all his Steve Phillips-ness answered Cliff Lee. The look on John Kruk’s face was absolutely priceless. Now, Cliff Lee is an excellent major league lefthander who has now won a Cy Young Award, but two years ago!?
Kruk absolutely went off on Phillips in the studio he was so astounded in the answer.
Good times.
HAHA – just read this from Craig Calcaterra at The Hardball Times…
“Dodgers 3, Mets 2: I think the only way the Mets could have done more to give the Dodgers this game is if they had shipped it to them at their homes thereby keeping them from having to come to the ballpark. One of the key mistakes was a Carlos Beltran error in the 11th. Beltran:
“I called for the ball like six times, But Pagan stood in the middle and I couldn’t put my glove on the ball. On a ball like that, I have priority. If Pagan would have called for that ball, my job is to get out of the way. He’s been in center field before, so he knows that when the center fielder calls for the ball, everyone has to get out of the way.”
He’s right, but I’m sure that won’t stop Steve Phillips from struttin’ around crowin’ about how Beltran doesn’t know how to win or lead or live or something.”
Let me start by saying I agree with Joe and the commenters regarding Steve Phillips. Every game he does is an infomercial for why he should never again GM.
More generally, though, I try not to let the dumb things announcers say bother me. I came to the realization a couple of years ago that basically every announcer said many things every day worthy of an FJM skewering. My favorite announcers earnestly believe in the importance of intangibles and clutchiness. My favorite announcers spout out cliches and advocate for wasting outs.
And so I just ignore that stuff. Obviously, at times it’s impossible to ignore – especially (as with Phillips) when announcers use their limitless powers for poor analytical skill for evil (trashing good players) instead of good, but the bottom line is that I’m not willing to stop appreciating Jerry Remy because his grasp on the relative importance of leadership and grit is way off.
To me (and maybe this is Phillips’ real problem), the 2 cardinal sins for an announcer are:
1. Taking yourself too seriously;
2. Exhibiting disdain for either concepts (such as sabermetrics) or players due to general crotchety-ness.
Finally, I would humbly assert that Dustin Pedroia has had 2 good years.
Somewhere Ken Tremedous is laughing. And that somewhere is Fremulon Inc.
All of these comments about announcers and not one about Ryan Lefever…Lefaver…Lafavre….Lefebrve? I know that if you put a microphone in front of someone for 3+ hours a day they will have a hard time not being annoying but his games are sometimes unbearable.
One of the great things about the MLB package is the ability to watch the Royals game and listen to the opposing teams commentators. It is a great way to mix it up, a great way to avoid listening to Frank stumble through the last 3rd of a game (while trying to read notes) and a great way to learn about other teams. All while avoiding gems like this from Ryan on Sunday – “one down and three to go here in the ninth”….classic!
Joe, you should do a poll of the worst and least effective ESPN or baseball commentators.
Great comment Paul White (#29).
I’m so glad I found JoPo’s blog. There isn’t enough said about Beltran. I miss him as a Royal.
Did Phillips ever mention anything about the fact that (1) the mets play in one of the most spacious ballparks and (2) our corner outfielders are stiffs? Beltran is a great fielder, and given our park/corner players, his skills are being leveraged in a more important way than ever before.
When does the internet petition to get Phillips off the air start taking signatures?
In some delayed form I was watching the game when Phillips went on this scripted rant about Beltran, highlights and everything,, didn’t understand it, for the East Coast audience that needs fuel to fire the Mets pyre after just 40 games?, aren’t they in front? and look they look very good to this Giants fan, wish I had things like Beltran not being gritty enough to bitch about,,, Phillips comments were so whacked that Joe Morgan sounded like one of us at Beltan’s defense. something like, “wwwell yes Steve, but the guy does put up those numbers. Maybe you want some more “grit”, or whatnot, but, the guy does put up those numbers,, and you those numbers are awfully hard to replace with “grit”,,” shit, Phillips made Joe sound super and almost Sabermetric,,,,,
secretly, I still love Joe as a broadcaster, listened when he started and saw him play too. When he started on the air I felt I learned a lot from him. On the radio he had to communicate, maybe that was different. Certainly the last several years it has been torture to listen to him on the tub e. It was a treat for ESPN to set him up so well with a hac job on Beltran and some easy numbers defense, the guys at KLM would be glad for this moment, I, a long time fan think it was scripted all for him, and to fuel some false NY fire under the Mets,, the team has issues, not the man in center field, I wish I had one of those guys on my team,,,,
For ESPN to set Joe up so well says that they are listening. They are reading Joe and others and know that their Joe is on his last hip,, bodes well for the future of entertaining and informative baseball coverage,,,
all hail Joe
Brutal takedown and richly deserved. Nice job.
Did anyone else see the Steve Phillips gem talking about Johan Santana last Monday? Thanks to Baseball Think Factory for transcribing this, because I nearly jumped through my TV.
Steve Phillips: You know, we’re talking about the run support for a pitcher, and I believe that pitchers often earn their run support, and here is why. I was in the front office for 13 years, at every home game, for many of the road games, and you start to feel the pattern of the game for each of the starting pitchers. Over the course of time it seemed to me there the same guys started to get runs, there was a pattern and rhythm to their game and the same guys didn’t get runs because of the pattern and rhythm to their game.
Orel Hershiser: Would you say Santana has a bad pattern or rhythm for offense?
Steve Phillips: I think it is the feel of his game, whether its his teammates…. I don’t think its a conscious thing, and players always go, ‘nah, there is no way, there is no way’ but I see it, I feel it every time you watch games. They don’t hit for Santana. I think part of it is because he is the ace on the mound. they think its a low scoring game, he is not going to give up runs. Its just this rhythm of the game that he has. Steve Trachsel, used to pitch for the Mets, the slowest worker ever. He never got run support. and I think he earned it.
Dan Shulman: I agree with the premise, but what is Santana doing wrong?
Orel Hershiser: Yeah, that’s what I don’t understand.
Steve Phillips: I think a lot of times, what happens. Is when there is someone great, in the game, on the mound, you look at the WBC, team usa. they didn’t hit. because they were all looking at each other, waiting for chipper to be chipper. ARod to be ARod and the guys were standing around watching each other, instead of being who they are as players.
@Somebody #27: Yes, Victorino won last year, and Aaron Rowand won in 2007. Both are center fielders.
The problem is that they don’t award a gold glove for left field, center field, and right field. They award three outfield gold gloves – and so you get years where two (and sometimes three) center fielders win.
That doesn’t take away from the fact that Beltran is a gold glove fielder. And, I’d wager that if the Phillies suddenly acquired Beltran, they’d move Victorino back to right (where he played in ‘07) and stick Beltran in center.
I know this has been brought up before…but I can’t help but notice the common thread among those that Steve brought up to sit alongside possibly the greatest player in baseball for his intangibles comparison…Chipper, Yook, and Pedroia…It’s the same thing that creates situations where players like Eckstein are made into heroic scrappy players and signed to long term pricey contracts when comparable contemporary players such as Fernando Vina or Alex Cora (numbers 2 and 3 at BR) are generally ignored and bounce around a bit. Now, I’m not saying that this is intentional, I’m sure that Steve Phillips is just a moron, and not racist. I just find it interesting how our minds work in these types of situations. Similar to how all young white basketball players are compared to Larry Bird. Or all black QBs are compared to Cunningham.
I don’t want to start some crazy thread about racism and get people yelling at each other over something as universally agreed upon as Steve Phillips’ stupidity, but rather just think that it is interesting how our minds all work when we try to fit people into arbitrary categories.
[...] * Joe Posnanski takes a hanging curveball and whacks it — Steve Phillips sucks. [...]
I can’t believe announcers like Steve Stone have problem finding work while Steve Phillips stays in his job.
The thing about Beltran is that he doesn’t do triple flips while making plays that most guys would have to kill themselves to execute. So people here in New York say things like “he doesn’t try hard”. You know what? He doesn’t have to try hard because he’s Carlos Beltran and that’s what you pay him for. You pay him to look completely relaxed while catching that really difficult ball. It’s insane. it’s absolutely insane. I would blame Steve Phillips except every day I sit next to Mets fans at games who call Carlos Beltran a bum.
“grit”? wtf is grit? I don’t want Carlos Beltran killing himself and getting hurt. I want him to play hard but this bullshit with “grit” and “spunk” and other undefinable terms that are just completely subjective and in my mind impossible to ever meet.
Dan H. #45,
I remember that discussion of Santana not “earning” his run support. Just reading that transcript though doesn’t even convey the tone of utter incredulity used by Orel Hershiser. Previously he had been joining Phillips in the mandatory “Mets lack leadership, grit, edge, passion, grission, clutchiness, Jeterosity, etc.” talk that accompanies every ESPN mention of the national league New York team, but he was quickly astounded by the level of stupidity being spouted by Phillips.
@Sean Asbury
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I think LeFebvre does a good job. He’s got a certain dry, corny wit that I enjoy, and I think he’s made some otherwise awful Royals games enjoyable over the past five years.
John–
Victorino is probably as good a rightfielder as he is center fielder because of his arm. but point taken. thanks for the clarification. it just makes it harder to believe a guy like abreu can win one
When Joe Morgan turns into the voice of reason, God help us all.
Re #45,
That’s the most ludicrous argument I’ve heard, and sadly it’s not the first time I’ve heard someone make it.
The way to “earn” more run support is to…pitch worse? Really? That’s your point, Steve Phillips?
If that’s the case, I guess it was actually a stroke of genius when Omar Minaya signed Livan Hernandez. The Mets should naturally score bushels of runs for him, since you know he’s gonna get whacked around.
Maybe Beltran should start buying more guys Cokes.
Thanks for catching this, Poz. It takes a special kind of idiocy in broadcasting for even Joe Morgan to call you out on it, as he did recently to Phillips, and it’s nice to know that it’s not just Mets fans who are picking up on how bad he is.
Ahh, Jimmy the Greek…As a young school-aged Canadian Lions fan, the only way to see the Lions play on Thanksgiving was to somehow be sick on American Thanksgiving. So back in about 1980 or so, I was – what a coincidence! – home “sick” for the Lions’ game against the Bears.
Jimmy the Greek had picked the Bears, and things didn’t look too good for him at halftime, with the Leos up 17-6; he was getting ribbed pretty bad back in the studio. He said something to the effect that he wasn’t too worried, because the Bears would come back and tie it up and win it in overtime.
So, sure enough, in chapter MDCXXI of Lion heartbreaks, Vince Evans runs in a QB keeper at the gun in the 4th to send it to overtime. The Bears won the toss, elected to receive, and ran back the kickoff for the shortest OT game ever.
But boy did I ever think Jimmy the Greek was smart.
“Dustin Pedroia? Chipper Jones? Kevin Youkilis. These are the players Steve Phillips mentioned.”
What do these three gentlemen have that Carlos Beltran does not? Racism is dying a very slow death in the sports media. Baseball writers and announcers disproportionately attribute “pluckiness” and “intangibles” to players of a certain hue.
And no, this is not a baseball-only problem.
And yes, all too often, the exceptions are well-spoken and have a penchant for smiling (ie Jeter and Tori Hunter).
Didn’t see this posted…
CF for the Mets while Phillips was GM: Brian MacRae, Jay Payton, Preston Wilson, Benny Agbayani, Timo Perez, Jason Tyner, Joe McEwing, Alex Escobar, Roger Cedeno, Jeff Duncan and Tsuyoshi Shinjo.
THANK YOU! great article joe, i just read it on SI and checked out your website as a result. i heard these rants by phillips on live TV, and was furious… and i’m a phillies fan! but i’m also a baseball fan, and carlos beltran is a ridiculously good baseball player that does not deserve this criticism. i agree with an earlier post; ESPN announcers are starting to drive me crazy (Baseball Tonight “analysts” too, minus Gammons) . they overanalyze, try to fill in every gap with something to say, and as a result they are spewing off garbage half the time. i don’t care what the sport is, the three man booth should be outlawed. give me a play by play guy to remind me how many outs and how many men are on base and stuff like that, and find a color guy who knows the game and picks his spots with commentary relevant to the situation, but enough with the constant chatter. i’m tuning in to watch the game, not listen to this nonsense.
“*The seven active players to pull the trick: A-Rod, Pujols, Beltran, Vlad Guerrero, Chipper Jones, Manny Ramirez and Ken Griffey. A few Hall of Famers on that list too.”
I’m not sure if you included Frank Thomas in the list of non-actives, but I don’t think he’s officially hung up the cleats yet. Frank accomplished this feat by age 30 and for good measure also walked at least 100 times in those 8 seasons (1991-1998).
Dan H #45 –
Thanks for the transcript of this idiot’s Johan Santana putdown. It is useful to actually see these words in print.
And, of course, he’s completely wrong. It took me all of about 5 seconds to look up Santana’s run support on BB-Ref — and, guess what: he receives MORE than average run support per game than the average MLB pitcher (discounting partial 2009 season). For his career, his RS per GS is exactly MLB average, while his RS while pitching is about 8% higher than average.
Now, it is true that his RS is somewhat less than average since he became a Met, but is Phillips actually prepared to argue that Santana’s “pattern and rhythm” only has an effect on the Mets? Because if he is, that sounds like a pretty damning indictment of the Mets, not Santana.
Who’s going to start the “Fire Steve Phillips” blog?
Here’s a nugget from Steve Phillips’ ESPN Chat today. Apparently Carlos Beltran must’ve slept with his wife or something…
Beltran Stays (New York): Steve, while I respect your work, I disagree with your statements about Carlos Beltran on Sunday Night Baseball. The guy has done nothing but produce, and name me a CF who’s better in the game right now.
Steve Phillips: If the Mets don’t make the playoffs, I firmly believe they need to reconfigure the core of this team. While Beltran does have talent, I just don’t see him as a winning player. Even after my comments on Sunday night, Beltran let a fly ball drop in between himself and Angel Pagan in the Dodger game. I see him putting up numbers but not making plays to win games. I would take Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Curtis Granderson, and Nate McLouth over Beltran, and use the financial difference to improve the team in other ways. Beltran isn’t a $17 million dollar a year player. He just doesn’t have the kind of impact for that kind of money.
Steve Phillips: Many people think that Alex Rodriguez is the best player in the game, but he’s never won anything. I look at Beltran in a similar fashion as Rodriguez–a great talent that just doesn’t seem to have what it takes to win championships. Maybe the Mets can keep him and add pieces to the core around him and still win. But when you’re dealing with a budget and the screams of immediacy in New York, I’m not sure the Mets can wait to piece it together around him. I know there are a lot of people who disagree with me, but it’s just the way I see it. Beltran is a very good person and a solid citizen, in addition to being a guy who puts up numbers. I like him, I just don’t think they can win with him.
Can Steve Phillips please have his job back with the Mets for this amazing analysis, so that we (go Giants!) can trade Aaron Rowand straight up for Carlos Beltran. I mean Aaron Rowand is a gamer and he has intangibles coming out of his eyeballs. In fact you know what just beacuse this proposal is so lobsided the Mets can also have Rich Aurilla because you know that they need a 1B as well.
In fact because Santana clearly isn’t quite the pitcher Steve wants then maybe we could trade Santana for Zito* as well.
*Zito starting to look like vintage Zito again yay!
“I look at Beltran in a similar fashion as Rodriguez–a great talent that just doesn’t seem to have what it takes to win championships.”
Sadly, Phillips is correct: Beltran DOESN’T have what it takes to win with the Mets – consistent pitching, and corner outfielders, and the entire right side of an infield… And it’s been like this since 2006 ended. That was their shot right there, unless they can luck into the playoffs and have the best month of their year (like the ‘06 Cards, actually).
Hey, Steve, maybe Beltran doesn’t have the right rhythm and pattern for his game – pitchers figure he’ll drive in seven runs every night so they walk a ton of guys and groove pitches to cleanup hitters.
(Phillips would trade Beltran straight-up for Nate McLouth or Torii Hunter? Really? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!)
As a long time mets fan, I must thank you for remember the most important part about ripping apart anything that Steve Phillips does, potshots about his term as GM of the Mets.
That line about drafting Pujols was great. Every time he starts spewing crap I just start yelling Mo Vaughn and have to mute the TV before I break it.
While Phillips was the GM when the Mets made the World Series in 2000, you have to wonder how they even made it that far. Timo Perez, Todd Zeile, Benny Agbayani, and Jay Payton were regulars. The bench was a who’s who – Melvin Mora (who turned into a good player), Pratt, Joe McEwing, Matt Franco, Rickey Henderson (done), Darryl Hamilton, Timo Perez. Wow, that Phillips was great.
Phillips is also the guy that went to see Mo Vaughn hitting in a cage in Connecticut and decided that he was worth trading Kevin Appier and taking on his huge contract(from the Angels, despite him coming off a season where he didn’t play because of injury). He was out of baseball two seasons later.
Thankyou for blowing up Steve Phillips, it has come to a point where the roommate and I, mute phillips and put some classic vinyl album on the record player and crack another beer. The worst part other than his analysis is that espn puts him on every single baseball telecast they have. When Chris Berman did the game the other night it was a breath of fresh air and I hate Berman. Phillips had disposal income at his fingers to build whatever he wanted with it and he proved to be the biggest moron in baseball, not counting Alard Baird of course.
“Even after my comments on Sunday night, Beltran let a fly ball drop in between himself and Angel Pagan in the Dodger game.” — Steve Phillips
Yeah, imagine the nerve of that Beltran guy — making an error after Steverino told him not to make errors (and on the TV, not as Beltran’s manager or GM).
Sheesh, what an asshole.
Don’t love all your work, but thought this piece was awesome. About time Phillips got called out by a legit columnist. I have no clue how Phillips and Joe Morgan are still broadcasting despite having moronic thoughts and no knowledge of the game, respectively. Great piece and especially loved the shot at the end.
Response to #68. Actually Melvin Mora was not on that World Series team. He was traded to the Orioles midseason for Mike Bordick for what was believed to be defensive purposes (presumably grit and pluckiness were also factors in Phillips’ decision). Bordick went on to make as many errors as Mora in slightly more games at shortstop for the Mets. He also was an offensive sieve that served as a Designated Out throughout the three rounds of playoffs that year. Mora wen on to be a cheap and effective regular for several years after the trade. Bordick went back to the O’s the next year and made his way out of baseball by 2003.
Steve Phillips being the leading analyst for ESPN may be the most puzzling decision in all of sports history.
The man is the babe ruth of sucking at his job. A first ballot, unanimous hall-of-famer for sucking at his job.
FJM??? Please?
Gotta hate the guy at work with “intangibles’… Some people just see what they want to believe. Or, is is “believe what they want to see”?
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