Greinke fun facts
Posted: May 5th, 2009 | Filed under: Baseball | 80 Comments »
Ten things to know about Zack Greinke.
1. Zack Greinke has a 1173 ERA+. I would wager than no pitcher in baseball history has had a 1173 ERA+ through six games.
2. There have been two complete game shutouts thrown in the American League this year. Greinke threw both of them. That makes for a fun “Shutouts” chart on Baseball Reference.
3. There have been eight complete games thrown in the American League. Greinke has three of them.
4. Greinke currently leads the league in wins, ERA, ERA+, shutouts, complete games, strikeouts, WHIP and he has not yet allowed a home run.
5. The league is hitting .242/.294/.337 against him with nobody on base.
But the league is hitting .109/.136/.125 against him with runners on base.
And the league is hitting .097/.097/.097 against him with runners in scoring position.
6. Greinke’s strikeout-to-walk ratio with runners in scoring position — 14-to-0.
7. Batters are hitting .171 against Greinke in the seventh inning and after.
8. Greinke has fallen behind 3-0 to a hitter only four times all year. He did not walk any of the four. He struck out two of them.
9. Greinke’s 0.40 ERA is so low, he could give up nine runs in an inning in his next start, get pulled, and his ERA STILL would be lower than 2.00.
10. This from brilliant reader Rob: Dating back to last year, Greinke has won nine consecutive starts, and in those nine starts he has an 0.69 ERA. How good is that? Well, legendary. There have been 50 pitches since 1954 who have won nine or more consecutive starts. Greinke’s is the second-best.*
*The best of those by ERA?
1. Bob Gibson, 1968: 12-0, 0.50 ERA.
Note for posterity: Gibson completed all 12 of those games.
2. Zack Greinke, 2008-09: 9-0, 0.69 ERA
3. Steve Blass, 1968: 9-0, 0.70 ERA
4. Hoyt Wilhelm, 1959: 9-0, 0.79 ERA
5. Cal Eldred, 1992: 10-0, 0.95 ERA
Note for posterity: In 1997, Eldred led the league in losses.
6. John Tudor, 1985: 9-0, 0.97 ERA
7. Warren Spahn, 1961: 10-0, 0.99 ERA
8. Gaylord Perry, 1974: 11-0, 1.00 ERA
Note for posterity: I’m in Cleveland right now reminiscing about Perry’s amazing 1974. Only July 3, he was 15-1 with a 1.31 ERA. He seemed a legit threat to win 30 games. He promptly lost nine of his next 10 decisions.
9. Randy Johnson, 1999-00, 9-0, 1.09 ERA
Note for posterity: You know, there’s a case to be made that Randy Johnson is the greatest pitcher in baseball history. This is just a warning … that case might be coming.
10. Roy Oswalt, 2002, 9-0, 1.22 ERA.
Also worth pointing out Johan Santana’s 12-0, 1.28 ERA stretch in 2004, Pat Dobson’s 12-0, 1.77 ERA stretch in 1971 and Brad Radke’s 12-0, 1.87 ERA stretch in 1997.
And one more thing … remember when Bob Welch won 27 games in 1990? Well, he won 9 decisions in a row in the middle of that year. His ERA during the stretch — 3.59. Boy, that team scored a lot of runs for him.
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Cliff Lee had a 0.67 ERA through 7 starts in 2008. His ERA+ has to be somewhere close to that, right?
John Buck!!
I had totally forgotten Steve Blass’ greatness during 1968 season. He was only average again until ‘71 World Series, then was very good in ‘72 and then….OMG! I felt sooo bad for him. What a wonderful guy and he had to go thru that crap with his inability to throw a ball with any control….not a good thing when your career is a MLB hurler!
Denny McLain won 9 straight starts with an ERA of 1.48 in 1968, so I’m surprised you didn’t include him in the “Also worth pointing out” list.
And it’s too bad Baseball Reference doesn’t keep track of ERA+ for certain points in the middle of the season, otherwise we’d be able to check what Cliff Lee’s ERA+ would have been like last season.
And how about the win for the Royals tonight? I bet in past seasons the Royals would have played the part of the White Sox; outhit the other team but blow a 7-4 lead and lose in the 11th.
I was at the complete game shutout last night. Couple thoughts/questions. Who was the last Royals pitcher that the crowd would stand, applaud, and *expect* a K from when the count reached two strikes? Anyone know? And, any good nicknames for Greinke yet? “Lights Out Zack” lacks originality but is incredibly fitting, in my opinion.
Jay: Kevin Appier.
All of the choices on the broadcast last night were lame. He is Baseball Jonah until I hear something better.
Lights out Zack works okay, especially if we could get everyone hanging Z’s instead of K’s at the K. Then a whole row of Z’s makes it look like the other team is sleeping.
That’s the facts, Zack.
That’s some great company. Of the other nine names on the list, five are Hall of Famers or are going to be. Oswalt is too soon to tell.
I think Perry is the only other one who did it in the DH league.
Jay: Your description made me immediately think “Norm Angelini” but I might be wrong….
As for Greinke’s BA/OBP/SLG allowed with RISP, that is just evil. When can we start calling him “The Greinke”? …as in “the Greinke that stole Christmas from Steinbrenner” LOL
Why the sudden and dramatic improvement in Greinke? Is there a discernible reason?
Lord Greinke.
Or, Good Lord! Greinke.
When your ERA is down in the 0.40-0.67 range, the ERA+ is going to climb exponentially the lower you are. I don’t know the league ERA at the point in the season Cliff Lee had the 0.67 ERA, but pretending it was the same as the league ERA at the end of the season (4.36), Lee’s ERA+ would have been 651.
You’re off the hook, Joe. You’re right that Greinke is too good to jinx.
Except by Ryan LeFebvre:
“Greinke has given up only 4 doubles all year.”
Next pitch, their guy doubles to left.
No matter. He stayed there.
The Greinke that stole Christmas? That’s funny, DY.
Mark H: Greinke’s been eatin’ his Wheaties!
Pfft, the AL-leading Blue Jays got two runs off of him. Greinke ain’t nothing.
……um….
Come on. Zack shall henceforth be known by his true name.
“The Burrito.”
don’t know who norm angelini is.
how ’bout Zen Zack?
#30, He Hate Me? Joe, you are a piece of work.
I was surprised not to see Orel Hershiser on that list so I BR’d it and sure enough Hershiser did not have nine wins during his fabled 1988 September and post-season. He was 8-0 with a save from August 29 through the final out of the World Series.
Over those games he allowed 7 ER in 97.2 innings. I’m doing this on a blackberry while riding a train so it’s hard for me to calculate ERA, but it should be just a touch lower than Greinke’s during this current run.
During this 8-0 run Hershiser made 11 starts. All 8 of his decisions were complete games. In the other three starts he went 10 shutout innings, 8 innings, and 7 innings. He would atone for that 7 inning NLCS no-decision by coming back the next day to get a save in extra innings.
Given the competition (5 playoff starts against the Mets and A’s who you might say had some guys who could hit), the high-pressure environment, and the otherwise unremarkable team…Was this the greatest two months of pitching ever?
[...] to me yesterday that he didn’t really know who Zach Greinke was, and it just so happens that Joe Posnanski wrote the perfect post today to get anyone up to speed who has somehow missed Greinke’s first [...]
“Lights out Zack works okay, especially if we could get everyone hanging Z’s instead of K’s at the K. Then a whole row of Z’s makes it look like the other team is sleeping.”
You could call him the Sandman. Or is that taken?
Not sure why some feel the urgent need for a nickname. Nicknames seem to evolve and stick,not something that can be forced or hurried ( see ‘the kougar’ and ‘mgd’ ) At this point in time I seriously doubt any one who even casually follows the game has any doubt who is being spoken of when the name Zack is mentioned.
How about Z-FORCE?
Mark H.-
I don’t know if I would say this is “sudden”. This 9-0 streak extends into last year when he finished in the top 10 for strikeouts. He was Royals pitcher of the year his rookie year. Everyone knows about his problems, so a lot of the gap was dealing with those, but he is definatly in the zone. During spring training he greatly improved his changeup and that is helping him out a lot.
Everyone should start putting up Zs instead of Ks. Marion Rivera comes out to Enter Sandman and I think some people might call him Sandman. Not a bad idea though.
Donald Zachary Greinke, aka the Don… he was making White Sox hitters offers that they just couldn’t refuse!
[...] Re: Greinke Greinke fun facts ? Joe Posnanski [...]
Zack the Ripper
@Mikey:
Yes.
I don’t do nicknames, but Limericks I can do:
There once was a pitcher named Greinke
More talent than most, he had in his pinkie
When he was on the mound
The hitters said “Zounds:
That guy he sure isn’t stinky”.
Orel Hershiser (aka “God’s Other Son”) did have it going there at the end of the ‘88 campaign.
Joba’s ERA+ was 1192 in 2007… apples and oranges, but impressive nontheless… 24 relief innings vs 45 starter innings.
Can a pitcher pitch a shutout without pitching a complete game?
So why do we say “complete-game shutout”?
If it hasn’t been brought up already, looks like we may need to discuss lowering the mound again…
Zack Greinke = the answer to the question “who will be this year’s Cliff Lee?”
Greinke just needs a Tommy Herr perm and he’ll be a marketer’s dream.
The best one I’ve heard is “ProZack,” but that’s too mean.
“Zounds!” would actually be a great nickname. It has the Z thing going for it, it’s fun to say, and it describes the effect of watching him pitch.
Zack-attack?
G-force?
Zack the WHIPer?
I could go on like this all day, but I am at work….
I suppose to differentiate from a team shutout, pitched by multiple pitchers… but it is technically redundant.
Couldn’t Zack’s ERA still be 0.00 if Coco Crisp had a decent arm (I believe so, but not entirely sure)? Of course, Coco may have saved other runs with his range, but still.
In the Seinfeld episode, wasn’t the bubble boy’s name Donald? There’s really no point to that question, but that’s who I think of when I hear “Donald”. I don’t think Donald Greinke would be as successful as Zack Greinke.
I like seeing John Tudor up there. He was awesome in ‘85. The Red Sox in the late 70s early 80s brought up some really good arms – Tudor, Ojeda, Boyd, Hurst, Smithson and Clemens. Of course they traded away half of those guys.
Can’t wait to read the book.
#20 Mikey: Just for math posterity’s sake: 7 ER in 97.2 IP yields an ERA of 0.64. As you said, just a touch lower than Greinke’s 0.69.
How about Zack Daddy?
Oh, and as for Coco, he should just run in every ball instead of trying to throw it – it’d probably be faster and more accurate.
Seeing an ERA+ over 1000 might be one of the coolest things in my time as a Royals fan. Someone should tell Banny to challenge Greinke to keep it above 300 all year. As competitive as he is we might end up with and MVP/Cy Young season from Greinke that carries us into the playoffs.
Joe, I’m trying to trade for this guy in my fantasy league. This post is not helping.
There’s no realistic equivalent to what Grienke’s doing right now, at least among hitters. Given a league-average baseline of .340 OBA and .440 SLG, and a guy either walking or going yard every trip, you get an OPS+ of 1103.
Youk was around 230 during his huge hot streak; Pujols is at 198 now – and he’s from Krypton. It’s almost unfair to count him.
On the pitching side, as of this morning Santana’s at an ERA+ of 392, which is insane enough. Haren’s at 315, and his WHIP is 0.744, which looks like a misprint. And just think, Greinke’s ERA is LOWER than Haren’s vanishing WHIP. Sick, sick, sick. He’s really bringing it. Good for him.
Zack Out
Greinke’s nickname should be “Carbon Monoxide”. Silent killer of offenses.
Josh in Boston (#41) brought up “Oil Can Boyd”, one of my all-time favorite nicknames. I read that he is attempting a comeback. Wants to be next Satchel Paige or something…Does anyone know how/what the “Oil Can” is doing?
“Was this the greatest two months of pitching ever?” — Mikey #20
Well, if it isn’t, it has to be in the top 2.
I remember that period quite well (and sadly, as I was rooting for the Mets). Besides Hershiser’s ridiculously good pitching, the thing I remember most about that period, esp. the post-season, was Tommy Lasorda’s managing. In my memory, that is the most aggressive managing I have ever seen; Hershiser’s pitching performance was in large part a result of Lasorda giving him the ball all the time.
When asked about it at the time, he gave some version of “he’s got all winter to rest” — the standard manager’s response in a situation like that. Except that Lasorda clearly meant it, and acted like it. I also remember Hershiser being asked about it by a reporter, something along the lines of “What if all this pitching makes your arm fall off?” To which he responded (paraphrasing), “If I get a ring, it will be worth it.”
To Chris in Dallas @ 35:
Zack’s no Cliff Lee. Cliff Lee is a good pitcher who put it all together one year for an off the charts season. There’s no reason to think he’ll ever finish in the Top 5 for the Cy Young voting again.
Zack Greinke was this level of talent when he first came up. He had some emotional problems that seem to be behind him, and now he’s become the pitcher he was always projected to be. Not that he’s going to keep pitching to an ERA below .50, but that nobody will be surprised if he’s in the top 5 for the Cy Young voting every year for the next 5 or 6 years. Maybe beyond if he stays healthy.
Does it surprise anyone else that “Hoyt Wilhelm” pitched in the modern era? Everytime I see his name I subconciously lump him in with the oldsters from the teens and twenties.
I don’t know if anyone has had a better ERA+ than 1173 to start a season through the first 6 games started to start a season. I’d guess probably and take the field for the history of baseball, but I wouldn’t put a lot on it.
However, Steve Ontiveros moved to the starting rotation from the bullpen at the end of May for Oakland in 1994. Through his first six starts he went 4-0 with a 0.26 ERA for an ERA+ of ?1700 (using the league average for the season).
Recently, Matt Cain had a six start stretch between Aug and Sept. of ‘06 in which he went 5-0 with an ERA of 0.21 for an ERA+ of ? 2130 (again using the league average for the season)
Don Drysdale had a six start stretch from the middle of May until the beginning of June in 1968 during which he went 6-0. He pitched 54 innings, had 6 shutouts for an ERA 0.00 and an ERA+ of ?. (Six games equaled by Hershiser of course though in fewer innings).
Bill C.-
I get your point. But I think you are underestimating Cliff Lee a little. He had a Top 5 finish on his resume before last year: His 2005 season (18-5, 3.79 ERA- 4th place). http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.shtml#ALcya.
I think he’ll be on that short list a couple more times in his career.
Zack Greinke once threw a ball so fast that it went back in time and took down Amelia Earhart’s plane.
Batters don’t swing the bat when facing Zack Greinke. They simply point it toward all the people in the stands who think he’s going to strike them out.
Zack Greinke doesn’t walk batters. He gives Billy Butler someone to talk to.
Zack Greinke once gave up a home run, and the batter still didn’t score.
From my post (#54) now I know that the comment box doesn’t questions the symbols for approximately and infinity.
I knew that there were more baseball fans than football fans here, but do people really think the 5th best 3rd baseman of all time is a better #26 than the greatest corner back of all time? (and by nearly a 2 to 1 margin)
Of course #27 makes me start to see a trend, with the Boston Carlton Fisk beating out Juan Marichal.
Nice of you to remember Radke’s run. I went to the game that ended that streak against the Yanks. The game was tied 1-1 after 7 and Tom Kelly sent Radke back out for the eighth (he had already thrown 110 pitches) he gave up a walk to Jeter who then stole 2b and went to third on a poor throw and then scored. Radke finished the 8th but got the loss.
Brent: Rod Woodson was an excellent cornerback, but best of all time? There have been a few I’d take over Woodson, one a former Steeler, Mel Blount #47. Dick “Night Train Lane” (#81!) is considered the best corner of all time, no?
As far as Fisk leading over Marichal for #27: That’s a travesty!
Just one longtime Steeler fan’s opinion: Woodson was better and if he had played under the same rules as Blount this would be widely understood.
Of course, those rules were changed in large part BECAUSE of Blount, which has to count for something.
C’mon, I know you guys are just watching TV…
the Don?! that made me laugh out loud, thank you!!
He’s untouchable
It’s too bad the Royals signed Greinke to a 4-year extension in January. Because if he went to the Yankees for a kajillion dollars (like he’ll do 4 years from now), he’d probably win 30 games. With the Royals, if he keeps his ERA+ over 1000 for the season, he only has an outside shot at 20 wins.
Someone smarter than me, do the math on the start of Fernando Valenzuela’s career…
-Greinke the Slinky?
-The KC Comet (probably too much like Sayers)
-Captain Hook
For when a batter strikes out:
-Much to his Chagreinke (looking)
-It’s easy to Grin, ‘kay, when your ship comes in, “K”…
@PhilM – “Zach Attack” is solid.
The league hitting .097/.097/.097 against him with runners in scoring position, while amazing, sadly points to a strong correction coming soon.
I don’t mean to bash him, Greinke has been fabulous, but you would expect his numbers to even out and that in turn means that more of those few stranded risp are eventually going to come home. Even with this correction in risp, he still stands to have a wonderful season.
From this website:
http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/5/4/865117/winning-first-six-starts-w-era
Greinke’s first six starts had an ERA of 0.4. Fernando’s first six starts back in 1981 were an ERA of 0.33. I *suspect* that Fernando’s ERA+ would have been better.
The interesting thing to me about Fernando’s start was it may have cost the Dodgers the 1980 World Series. Yes, they won it in 1981. But in 1980, the Dodgers and Astros finished tied for first. Fernando, up for a September cup of coffee, had yet to be scored upon. Lasorda decided not to use the rookie in the one game playoff. Assuming Fernando would continue his streak as he started to do at the beginning of the next season, he’d have thrown a shutout to put the Dodgers in the playoffs and he’d have won every playoff start he made.
Not that it worked out badly for Fernando, or Lasorda for that matter.
Mark W. at #60.
I am not old enough to have seen Night Train. I do remember Blount as being great. However, the sportswriters who should know put Woodson on their 75 year anniversary all NFL team in 1996 (or whenever that was). I believe he was the only active player at the time that made that team. (not true, I checked, Jerry Rice and Reggie White were active at the time and made the team, as were recent retirees Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott)
(and since I checked, they picked 4 CBs so I suppose you could argue that Lane, Blount and Haynes were all better than Woodson, but given the changes in the rules that made it harder to play DB in Woodson’s days, I would still go with Woodson)
That sounds like either the best CB or 2nd best CB ever to me.
But Boggs clearly trails Schmidt, Brett, Mathews and probably Home Run Baker at 3B and possibly Brooks Robinson too, depending on how much D you want at 3B.
And from this other web site, Fernando had a 0.20 ERA in April 1981 (and 0.21 in April 1985).
http://www.truebluela.com/2009/4/25/853146/remembering-fernando-valenzuelas
In 1985 he lost two games on unearned runs. So nothing against Greinke, whose 9-0 run is better than whatever Fernando put up for nine decisions in a row (well, sorta kinda; Fernando’s first 17.2 innings, in 1980, had an ERA of 0, WHIP of 0.736, record of 2-0, but were all in relief, not starts. If those counted as starts, then I suspect that the beginning of Fernando’s career would be right there with Greinke’s start to 2009).
Again, not criticizing Greinke, but it’s really insane just how hot Fernando started off, He was also a fine fielder for a non-athlete, batted at the Mendoza line with two Silver Slugger awards (and didn’t win for his best batting year, OPS+ of 101, in 1990), and I swear I saw him deliberately strike out (as a batter) whenever he had a big lead and nobody on base, to conserve his energy for pitching. A brilliant baseball mind, reminds me of Magic Johnson in basketball. It’s a shame Fernando’s career doesn’t justify going into the HOF (and I acknowledge that it doesn’t quite) because although his first six full seasons were superb (four high CYA finishes, six All Star selections) the rest of his career only had one season with enough IP to qualify for the ERA title as well as an ERA+ above 100.
re:limerick… ‘zounds’ doesn’t rhyme with ‘mound.’ it’s pronounced zoonds… (stands for god’s wounds)…
Erik in NYC:
Webster’s On line disagrees with you on the pronunciation (well, not entirely, it lists your version 2nd, my version 1st and an even different way with a W sound in there somewhere 3rd)
When Zack Greinke does push ups he doesn’t push himself up, he pushes the earth down.
The Dodgers would have had to do some fancy maneuvering to get Valenzuela on the 1980 playoff roster as he didn’t make his debut until Sept. 15 (the rule at the time was on the roster or DL as of Aug. 31). Of course, the loophole was discovered around that time or shortly after.
In 1981, Fernando Valenzuela pitched arguably better than Zack Greinke. He had four shutouts, and in each of his other two starts he allowed just one earned run. One of those was a complete game, the other was a 1-1 tie after 9 where the Dodgers scored five in the top of the 10th off of Bill Gullickson (thus giving Fernando the W). There’s no indication of what Valenzuela’s ERA+ was, but it’s possible that it was lower than 1173, simply because the league ERA was lower back then.
Valenzuela’s seventh start, by the way, was another shutout, then he allowed two runs in his eighth start, also a complete game.
8 GS, 4 SHO, 7 CG, 72 IP, 4 ER, 0.50 ERA
Fernando doesn’t make Joe’s list of nine consecutive wins in starts, because he didn’t start any games in 1980, and his ninth start in 1981 was a loss — he did allow 4 ER, but the Dodgers were shut out by the immortal Marty Bystrom, so it’s possible Fernando would have lost even if he’d only allowed one run.
Good to see Greinke doing so well, but nobody keeps up this kind of pace — for the rest of the 1981 season (including the first loss), Valenzuela was 8-9 with a 3.66 ERA, in a season where the league average ERA was 3.49.
[...] Shin Densetsu put an intriguing blog post on Greinke fun facts Here’s a quick excerpt2. There have been two complete game shutouts thrown in the American League this year. Greinke threw both of them. [...]
To jump on an emerging meme:
Zack Greinke once struck out the side on seven pitches.
Joe – I think you need to double check your math on fact #9.
Does Greinke have a “be” pitch like Satchel Paige?
As in, “That pitch be where I want it to be.”
@David Wintheiser:
If Fernando’s ERA was 0.33 through six starts, then the league ERA would have to be 3.88 for him to have an ERA+ of 1173.
The league average *ended* up at 3.49, as you note. So I’d say it’s possible, but not probable, that his ERA+ was better than 1173.
Very close, though!