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	<title>Comments on: Around The Horn</title>
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	<description>Curiously Long Posts</description>
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		<title>By: David in NYC</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58632</link>
		<dc:creator>David in NYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58632</guid>
		<description>William (#32) --

Let me remind you of Red Smith&#039;s observation about baseball:  it&#039;s only a boring game to boring people.  IMHO, same is true of soccer and its non-fans.

And a couple of factual corrections:  (1) the average goal count in UEFA Champions League games is a bit over 3, so the avergae score is more likely 2-1 (and probably [where is soccer-reference.com when you need it?] higher in &quot;regular season&quot; games); and (2) a scoreless draw that ended on PKs would be listed as &quot;0-0 (won on penalty kicks)&quot;.

Laurence (#28) --

Brilliant use of reductio ad absurdum.  Follow it to its logical conclusion, and Phillips&#039; argument is that anything less than a HR is for sissies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William (#32) &#8211;</p>
<p>Let me remind you of Red Smith&#8217;s observation about baseball:  it&#8217;s only a boring game to boring people.  IMHO, same is true of soccer and its non-fans.</p>
<p>And a couple of factual corrections:  (1) the average goal count in UEFA Champions League games is a bit over 3, so the avergae score is more likely 2-1 (and probably [where is soccer-reference.com when you need it?] higher in &#8220;regular season&#8221; games); and (2) a scoreless draw that ended on PKs would be listed as &#8220;0-0 (won on penalty kicks)&#8221;.</p>
<p>Laurence (#28) &#8211;</p>
<p>Brilliant use of reductio ad absurdum.  Follow it to its logical conclusion, and Phillips&#8217; argument is that anything less than a HR is for sissies.</p>
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		<title>By: Milwaukee</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58245</link>
		<dc:creator>Milwaukee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58245</guid>
		<description>&quot;Both Maradona and Pele have slightly skanky political pasts, as they allowed themselves to be used by their local dictatorships to fire up support in the form of national spirit, and to distract attention from real problems. Then Maradona went completely the other way and now goes around supporting Castro and Chavez.&quot;

Completely the other way? Aren&#039;t Castro and Chavez also considered dictators?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Both Maradona and Pele have slightly skanky political pasts, as they allowed themselves to be used by their local dictatorships to fire up support in the form of national spirit, and to distract attention from real problems. Then Maradona went completely the other way and now goes around supporting Castro and Chavez.&#8221;</p>
<p>Completely the other way? Aren&#8217;t Castro and Chavez also considered dictators?</p>
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		<title>By: Shark</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58231</link>
		<dc:creator>Shark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58231</guid>
		<description>You just reminded me that I no longer have to suffer through Coco Crisp&#039;s interminable wiggling at bats ending in a double play....ENJOY!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You just reminded me that I no longer have to suffer through Coco Crisp&#8217;s interminable wiggling at bats ending in a double play&#8230;.ENJOY!</p>
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		<title>By: DGL</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58200</link>
		<dc:creator>DGL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58200</guid>
		<description>A sac fly with the score tied in the bottom of the ninth means that the outfielders were playing too deep.  With the score tied in the bottom of the ninth, a runner on third, and less than two outs, the outfielders need to be shallow enough that they can throw out the runner on any ball they can catch.

(OK, I guess you could count the case where the outfielder made a lousy throw, or the catcher dropped the ball, or something.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A sac fly with the score tied in the bottom of the ninth means that the outfielders were playing too deep.  With the score tied in the bottom of the ninth, a runner on third, and less than two outs, the outfielders need to be shallow enough that they can throw out the runner on any ball they can catch.</p>
<p>(OK, I guess you could count the case where the outfielder made a lousy throw, or the catcher dropped the ball, or something.)</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58190</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58190</guid>
		<description>Umm...soccer? For me, soccer is about watching a bunch of guys and gals run around for a very long time without any real results. All that work, all that running, all that skill and the game probably ends 1-0 on a series of free kicks.

The walk mindset is about making pitchers work as hard as possible for the outs that are recorded. The harder the pitcher has to work, the less successful he is going to be.

The Royals should run more IF they can do so successfully (at least 70% success rate). If they cannot be successful at running, they shouldn&#039;t run.

I never liked sacrificing an out to move a runner up. But it does work sometimes. The A&#039;s made a game of it with the Yankees last night due to a good sacrifice with men on first and second. But too often, it just gives up an out and makes the pitcher&#039;s job just a little too easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm&#8230;soccer? For me, soccer is about watching a bunch of guys and gals run around for a very long time without any real results. All that work, all that running, all that skill and the game probably ends 1-0 on a series of free kicks.</p>
<p>The walk mindset is about making pitchers work as hard as possible for the outs that are recorded. The harder the pitcher has to work, the less successful he is going to be.</p>
<p>The Royals should run more IF they can do so successfully (at least 70% success rate). If they cannot be successful at running, they shouldn&#8217;t run.</p>
<p>I never liked sacrificing an out to move a runner up. But it does work sometimes. The A&#8217;s made a game of it with the Yankees last night due to a good sacrifice with men on first and second. But too often, it just gives up an out and makes the pitcher&#8217;s job just a little too easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58171</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58171</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure many people would say Pele was &quot;much greater.&quot; Maradona&#039;s peak may have been shorter, but it was arguably brighter. Plus, he gets points for taking on a higher level of competition in Europe than did Pele, who played in the very lowly Brazilian leagues all his life (well... there was the US thing... that doesn&#039;t count). Of course, Pele then go on and simply dominate international competition. Regularly.

Look, I&#039;m not saying Maradona&#039;s definitely better, I&#039;m just saying there is more of an argument. And yeah, I&#039;d say Cruyff is in the discussion as well. Best? No thanks. Not even in the same league, in my book. 

And Aaron, yes, you&#039;re right. It is cool that the 10 is still a very soccer number and that people would attribute it to a soccer player. I have no idea how to get Americans to enjoy soccer more. I know I didn&#039;t until I watched my then-girlfriend and now wife play alot in college. Now, I follow it with as much passion as any other &quot;American sport.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure many people would say Pele was &#8220;much greater.&#8221; Maradona&#8217;s peak may have been shorter, but it was arguably brighter. Plus, he gets points for taking on a higher level of competition in Europe than did Pele, who played in the very lowly Brazilian leagues all his life (well&#8230; there was the US thing&#8230; that doesn&#8217;t count). Of course, Pele then go on and simply dominate international competition. Regularly.</p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m not saying Maradona&#8217;s definitely better, I&#8217;m just saying there is more of an argument. And yeah, I&#8217;d say Cruyff is in the discussion as well. Best? No thanks. Not even in the same league, in my book. </p>
<p>And Aaron, yes, you&#8217;re right. It is cool that the 10 is still a very soccer number and that people would attribute it to a soccer player. I have no idea how to get Americans to enjoy soccer more. I know I didn&#8217;t until I watched my then-girlfriend and now wife play alot in college. Now, I follow it with as much passion as any other &#8220;American sport.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron M.</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58165</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 05:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58165</guid>
		<description>Anthony, 

Be happy we even vote for a soccer player, because the vast majority of us, maybe watch it every 4 years for the World Cup.  And that&#039;s a big maybe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony, </p>
<p>Be happy we even vote for a soccer player, because the vast majority of us, maybe watch it every 4 years for the World Cup.  And that&#8217;s a big maybe.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Morse</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58150</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Morse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 03:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58150</guid>
		<description>BillP @7:

The only thing DeJesus has demonstrated in the last two seasons is the ability to be caught stealing (or picked off) when asked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BillP @7:</p>
<p>The only thing DeJesus has demonstrated in the last two seasons is the ability to be caught stealing (or picked off) when asked.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58123</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58123</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve come up with another comparison on the walk v hit thing.

Bearing in mind that, in terms of outcome, a walk is never *better* than a hit (it is often equally as good as a single and I suppose might be considered better if you&#039;re trying to wear out a starter, but a walk cannot move more baserunners than a single, ever) you could look on a walk as the least good positive outcome of an at-bat.

Now given that, in the same way, a single can never be better than a double, you could see Brandon Phillips&#039;s anti-walk views as being not as manly as a batter saying &quot;I don&#039;t bother with singles - everyone knows that real men clear the bases when they get up to bat, so I&#039;m not going in there looking for anything less than a double. A triple if there&#039;s a fat guy on first.&quot;

So if real men don&#039;t walk, surely *real* men don&#039;t hit singles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve come up with another comparison on the walk v hit thing.</p>
<p>Bearing in mind that, in terms of outcome, a walk is never *better* than a hit (it is often equally as good as a single and I suppose might be considered better if you&#8217;re trying to wear out a starter, but a walk cannot move more baserunners than a single, ever) you could look on a walk as the least good positive outcome of an at-bat.</p>
<p>Now given that, in the same way, a single can never be better than a double, you could see Brandon Phillips&#8217;s anti-walk views as being not as manly as a batter saying &#8220;I don&#8217;t bother with singles &#8211; everyone knows that real men clear the bases when they get up to bat, so I&#8217;m not going in there looking for anything less than a double. A triple if there&#8217;s a fat guy on first.&#8221;</p>
<p>So if real men don&#8217;t walk, surely *real* men don&#8217;t hit singles?</p>
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		<title>By: Joao</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/22/around-the-horn/#comment-58099</link>
		<dc:creator>Joao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/21/around-the-horn/#comment-58099</guid>
		<description>Have to agree with Edwin there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to agree with Edwin there.</p>
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