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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Night Thought of the Week</title>
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		<title>By: Twitter Trackbacks for Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Sunday Night Thought of the Week [joeposnanski.com] on Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-73194</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitter Trackbacks for Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Sunday Night Thought of the Week [joeposnanski.com] on Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 04:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-73194</guid>
		<description>[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Sunday Night Thought of the Week  joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week &#8211; view page &#8211; cached  #Joe Posnanski RSS Feed Joe Posnanski » Sunday Night Thought of the Week Comments Feed Joe Posnanski Hey, I’m back … Playing With Numbers Kindred &#8212; From the page [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Joe Posnanski » Blog Archive » Sunday Night Thought of the Week  joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week &ndash; view page &ndash; cached  #Joe Posnanski RSS Feed Joe Posnanski » Sunday Night Thought of the Week Comments Feed Joe Posnanski Hey, I’m back … Playing With Numbers Kindred &mdash; From the page [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Buchholz Surfer</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-58553</link>
		<dc:creator>Buchholz Surfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-58553</guid>
		<description>So Soria has a sore arm and has probably had a sore arm for a while. Do you think that maybe, just maybe that was why he wasn&#039;t used in these situations? Maybe the manager actually knows more about the players than the fans on the outside who are so sure that the manager is &quot;obviously an idiot&quot; for not pitching a guy who has a sore arm.

Managers make mistakes, and Hillman might be poor strategically, but the point is fans who are so sure that they know best and declare that the manager (who quite likely has a lot more information on all his players than they do) is an &quot;idiot&quot; just sound ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Soria has a sore arm and has probably had a sore arm for a while. Do you think that maybe, just maybe that was why he wasn&#8217;t used in these situations? Maybe the manager actually knows more about the players than the fans on the outside who are so sure that the manager is &#8220;obviously an idiot&#8221; for not pitching a guy who has a sore arm.</p>
<p>Managers make mistakes, and Hillman might be poor strategically, but the point is fans who are so sure that they know best and declare that the manager (who quite likely has a lot more information on all his players than they do) is an &#8220;idiot&#8221; just sound ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Shayne</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57912</link>
		<dc:creator>Shayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57912</guid>
		<description>If it makes you feel any better Joe (and I can&#039;t see how it would, but....) this is EXACTLY the kind of thing Ron Gardenhire does with Joe Nathan.  Still, I&#039;m glad he doesn&#039;t have Farnsworth in his pen (although he has managed to frag Crain&#039;s arm inside of just two weeks)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it makes you feel any better Joe (and I can&#8217;t see how it would, but&#8230;.) this is EXACTLY the kind of thing Ron Gardenhire does with Joe Nathan.  Still, I&#8217;m glad he doesn&#8217;t have Farnsworth in his pen (although he has managed to frag Crain&#8217;s arm inside of just two weeks)</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57908</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57908</guid>
		<description>Best No. 3 ever? Can&#039;t argue much for Babe Ruth but as I mentioned in a previous post, Paolo Maldini has to be considered (he is the greatest ever no.3 in football (soccer) for those who don&#039;t know who he is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best No. 3 ever? Can&#8217;t argue much for Babe Ruth but as I mentioned in a previous post, Paolo Maldini has to be considered (he is the greatest ever no.3 in football (soccer) for those who don&#8217;t know who he is).</p>
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		<title>By: ajnrules</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57897</link>
		<dc:creator>ajnrules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57897</guid>
		<description>Answer: Just once, between April 16 and April 24. According to Baseball Reference, this was when the Royals had their early-season 7-game losing streak. Soria got the save on the 16th, and Hillman didn&#039;t pitch him in six of the seven losses until he finally brought him in to pitch the 9th with the Royals down 2-0. There were three other times when Soria went exactly a week without pitching.

Anyways, this just goes to show you that closers probably don&#039;t go 100 innings a year like Quiz, Goose, and Sutter did not because they don&#039;t have the capabilities, but the managers just don&#039;t give them the opportunity. I personally think Hillman has a man-crush on Farnsworth and his 100-mph fastball. Perhaps he was entertaining thoughts of moving Soria to the rotation and making Farnsworth the new closer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answer: Just once, between April 16 and April 24. According to Baseball Reference, this was when the Royals had their early-season 7-game losing streak. Soria got the save on the 16th, and Hillman didn&#8217;t pitch him in six of the seven losses until he finally brought him in to pitch the 9th with the Royals down 2-0. There were three other times when Soria went exactly a week without pitching.</p>
<p>Anyways, this just goes to show you that closers probably don&#8217;t go 100 innings a year like Quiz, Goose, and Sutter did not because they don&#8217;t have the capabilities, but the managers just don&#8217;t give them the opportunity. I personally think Hillman has a man-crush on Farnsworth and his 100-mph fastball. Perhaps he was entertaining thoughts of moving Soria to the rotation and making Farnsworth the new closer.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick McGinniss</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57885</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick McGinniss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57885</guid>
		<description>So, if our best reliever is used as exclusively as a 9-th inning &quot;closer&quot; (up by 1-3 runs) ... and all the HR hitters we have muscle up and increase both the number of victories and margin of each (i.e., we&#039;re up by 3-5 runs instead of 1-3, which is what happened last week)... 

... then, by logic, we&#039;ll use Soria less innings this year than we did last year.

Question: how many times did Soria go over a week without pitching last year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, if our best reliever is used as exclusively as a 9-th inning &#8220;closer&#8221; (up by 1-3 runs) &#8230; and all the HR hitters we have muscle up and increase both the number of victories and margin of each (i.e., we&#8217;re up by 3-5 runs instead of 1-3, which is what happened last week)&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8230; then, by logic, we&#8217;ll use Soria less innings this year than we did last year.</p>
<p>Question: how many times did Soria go over a week without pitching last year?</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57871</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 00:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57871</guid>
		<description>Was at the Dodgers-Rockies game on Friday.  Rockies led 3-0 heading to bottom of 7th.  Dodgers scored 4 runs in bottom of 7th, while closer (Corpas) and 8th inning guy (Street) stayed safe in the bullpen.  Street pitched the 8th when it was a bit late already.  Corpas didn&#039;t get to pitch until Sunday, when with an off day pending, they brought him in down 9-10 runs to get in some work.

In the meanwhile, Joe Torre brought in Broxton with 1 out in the 8th and the bases loaded.  Broxton struck out 4 of the next 5 hitters and really did &quot;save&quot; the game.

Unfortunately, as Clint Hurdle proved, more managers are like Hillman than Torre when it comes to closer usage.  Bruce Bochy made a similar error in the Dodgers-Giants game Wednesday.  Not sure how much consolation any of this is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was at the Dodgers-Rockies game on Friday.  Rockies led 3-0 heading to bottom of 7th.  Dodgers scored 4 runs in bottom of 7th, while closer (Corpas) and 8th inning guy (Street) stayed safe in the bullpen.  Street pitched the 8th when it was a bit late already.  Corpas didn&#8217;t get to pitch until Sunday, when with an off day pending, they brought him in down 9-10 runs to get in some work.</p>
<p>In the meanwhile, Joe Torre brought in Broxton with 1 out in the 8th and the bases loaded.  Broxton struck out 4 of the next 5 hitters and really did &#8220;save&#8221; the game.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, as Clint Hurdle proved, more managers are like Hillman than Torre when it comes to closer usage.  Bruce Bochy made a similar error in the Dodgers-Giants game Wednesday.  Not sure how much consolation any of this is.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57868</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57868</guid>
		<description>@#24 and @#39

As a Yankee fan, I WAS outraged when Girardi blew last Saturday&#039;s game by failing to use Rivera in the 8th.  The reaction in NY was very quiet, at least in the papers (I don&#039;t know what the WFAN reaction was).  There is some small justification for saving Mariano: he is coming off offseason shoulder surgery, after all.  But besides that, what was particularly infuriating was that Girardi 1) used the best setup man, Bruney, in the 7th; 2) after using Marte and Veras to get two outs in the 8th, went to the 5TH best reliever, Coke, rather than Mariano to get FOUR outs with the tying run on first base. 

Like all of you, I can&#039;t stand the modern use of the closer.  But I don&#039;t see the status quo changing any time soon.  It&#039;s just far too easy for the manager to look at the press and say, &quot;I&#039;m not going to use him when it&#039;s not a &#039;save&#039; situation.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@#24 and @#39</p>
<p>As a Yankee fan, I WAS outraged when Girardi blew last Saturday&#8217;s game by failing to use Rivera in the 8th.  The reaction in NY was very quiet, at least in the papers (I don&#8217;t know what the WFAN reaction was).  There is some small justification for saving Mariano: he is coming off offseason shoulder surgery, after all.  But besides that, what was particularly infuriating was that Girardi 1) used the best setup man, Bruney, in the 7th; 2) after using Marte and Veras to get two outs in the 8th, went to the 5TH best reliever, Coke, rather than Mariano to get FOUR outs with the tying run on first base. </p>
<p>Like all of you, I can&#8217;t stand the modern use of the closer.  But I don&#8217;t see the status quo changing any time soon.  It&#8217;s just far too easy for the manager to look at the press and say, &#8220;I&#8217;m not going to use him when it&#8217;s not a &#8217;save&#8217; situation.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: David Wintheiser</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57861</link>
		<dc:creator>David Wintheiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57861</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So what Hillman is saying by not using Soria is, â€œI am a better manager than Joe Torre.â€&lt;/i&gt;

Can you name another manager, other than Torre, who will use his closer in a close eighth-inning situation? If not, then does it make sense to argue that every manager in baseball is supposedly saying &quot;I am a better manager than Joe Torre?&quot;

It can be argued, though not proven, that the consistency of guys like Joe Nathan comes from only being used in specific situations and for limited innings -- in previous eras, closers (then called &#039;firemen&#039;) were brought in early to protect close games. Guys like Mike Marshall would pitch 200 innings or more per year in these situations**, and most of them were wildly inconsistent from year to year. Limiting closers to ninth-inning appearances has not eliminated the problem of the inconsistent closer, but closers are more consistent on the whole now than they once were.

** - OK, there weren&#039;t many guys like Mike Marshall, but closers did pitch significantly more innings in the late &#039;70s to mid-&#039;80s than they pitched in the &#039;90s and pitch today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So what Hillman is saying by not using Soria is, â€œI am a better manager than Joe Torre.â€</i></p>
<p>Can you name another manager, other than Torre, who will use his closer in a close eighth-inning situation? If not, then does it make sense to argue that every manager in baseball is supposedly saying &#8220;I am a better manager than Joe Torre?&#8221;</p>
<p>It can be argued, though not proven, that the consistency of guys like Joe Nathan comes from only being used in specific situations and for limited innings &#8212; in previous eras, closers (then called &#8216;firemen&#8217;) were brought in early to protect close games. Guys like Mike Marshall would pitch 200 innings or more per year in these situations**, and most of them were wildly inconsistent from year to year. Limiting closers to ninth-inning appearances has not eliminated the problem of the inconsistent closer, but closers are more consistent on the whole now than they once were.</p>
<p>** &#8211; OK, there weren&#8217;t many guys like Mike Marshall, but closers did pitch significantly more innings in the late &#8217;70s to mid-&#8217;80s than they pitched in the &#8217;90s and pitch today.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave B</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57856</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/04/19/sunday-night-thought-of-the-week/#comment-57856</guid>
		<description>All I can say in addition to all the previous comments is that Trey Hillman must have felt that 2 failed opportunities for Farnsworth wasn&#039;t a sufficient sample size by which to evaluate - and he needed more proof. Congrats.
Another choice would have been to check in with any number of Detroit Tiger, Chicago Cub or Yankee fans who have been subjected to much the same failed promise young Kyle rewarded us all with for the past 6 or 7 years. But I guess seeing is believing. As a long time Cub fan I can tell you Farnsworth looks a lot better from far away. And far away is where the baseball is likely to end up in the clutch when he&#039;s on the mound.

If you don&#039;t plan to use your best players (Soria) to do what they are best at, there&#039;s no hope. We all know what Kyle is best at. Bang, zoom, to the moon, Trey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say in addition to all the previous comments is that Trey Hillman must have felt that 2 failed opportunities for Farnsworth wasn&#8217;t a sufficient sample size by which to evaluate &#8211; and he needed more proof. Congrats.<br />
Another choice would have been to check in with any number of Detroit Tiger, Chicago Cub or Yankee fans who have been subjected to much the same failed promise young Kyle rewarded us all with for the past 6 or 7 years. But I guess seeing is believing. As a long time Cub fan I can tell you Farnsworth looks a lot better from far away. And far away is where the baseball is likely to end up in the clutch when he&#8217;s on the mound.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t plan to use your best players (Soria) to do what they are best at, there&#8217;s no hope. We all know what Kyle is best at. Bang, zoom, to the moon, Trey.</p>
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