The Stillers
Posted: January 28th, 2009 | Filed under: Other Sports, Playoffs | 65 Comments »
It’s a strange feeling to be a hero in Pittsburgh. But, well, there it is. For more than a week now, I have been receiving a flood of emails and phone calls and letters from people in Pittsburgh, all of them thanking me for the column I wrote off the Steelers-Ravens AFC Championship Game. Apparently it is making the rounds. I’ve heard from fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, grandfathers who said they cried. People have sent me songs they have written about the Steelers. They have sent me poems. They have sent me photographs. It has been quite an odd experience.
There’s a point to this. That column about the Pittsburgh Steelers, which you can read here if you feel like it, was written on a pretty tight deadline — I think I wrote that column in 45 minutes. And when you write on a pretty tight deadline, you have no time for detailed research or deep thought or trial runs. When you are on a pretty tight deadline, you write what you know.
I know Pittsburgh Steelers football through a single prism: I hated the Steelers because that was the law when I was a boy.
That’s all. I grew up in Cleveland, of course, and when you grow up in Cleveland you are taught how to walk backward into a frigid wind, how to kick the stairs to dislodge the cake of slush on your boots, how to appreciate blue skies and how to hate the Pittsburgh Steelers. It’s something so fundamental in Cleveland, at least when I was growing up, that I don’t even remember a time when I did not hate that black and gold.
But let me add this: It was an odd hate, or, more to the point, a specific hate. I know how Ohio State fans despise Michigan, how Auburn fans despise Alabama, how Georgia fans despise Florida, how Redskins fans despise the Cowboys, how the Red Sox feel about the Yankees. I have a friend I have mentioned here before who is an extremist Cardinals fan and, by extension, hates the Chicago Cubs. That’s pretty common, of course — Cubs, Cardinals, big rivals — only I would say that her hatred of the Cubs is AT LEAST the equal of her love for the Cardinals.*
*Put it this way: I would say if you asked her to list off her greatest baseball memories, they would be (in no particular order):
– The Cardinals finishing off the Tigers in the 2006.
– George Bell (not Pedro Guerrero — late night misprint) flopping his way to home plate when he was with the Cubs.
– Albert Pujols’ monster home run off Brad Lidge
– The Cubs blowing the 3-1 series lead against Florida with Zambrano, Prior and Wood going.
– The whole 1982 Cardinals season.
– Last year’s Cubs, who seemed to have everything going for them, getting swept by the Dodgers.
My friend is a dear person, and she understands that there’s a certain cruelty to her Cubs hate — she readily admits this. She sometimes thinks: “Would it be so bad if the Cubs finally won? It has been 100 years. I know some Cub fans who I really like. Plus the Cubs have brought me so much joy with their losing … it wouldn’t be the end of the world if they finally won one, right?†But then when she watches the Cubs play, she finds that she cannot shake the old hatred, and she finds herself shamefully gleeful when the heartbreak comes, as it always does to the Chicago Cubs.
My hatred for the Steelers was very different. It would not be right to call it “respect,†but I absolutely do not recall rooting against the Steelers in any other game except when they played the Cleveland Browns. I do not recall, for instance, rooting for the Houston Oilers to beat the Steelers or the Cincinnati Bengals to beat them, and I know I never rooted for the Oakland Raiders to beat them. Quite the opposite: I’m quite certain I casually wanted the Steelers to beat the Cowboys in both Super Bowls, and I remember clearly wanting the Steelers to beat the Rams. It’s hard to explain exactly. One of the Pittsburgh people who wrote in knew I was from Cleveland and said that we were “like brothers who fought all the time because we’re so much alike.â€
There might be something to that. Man, did I hate those Steelers when they played my Browns.* It was pathological, really. I was one of those people who, shamefully, was cheering when Cleveland’s Turkey Joe Jones slammed Bradshaw on his head. I’m fairly certain that was the same game when I learned what tears of joy really meant — I was crying when Dr. Dave Mays, the Browns third-string quarterback who, poetically enough, was also a dentist, led the Browns to a stunning upset of the Steelers. There I was crying and happy, all at the same time, it was a confusing experience, sort of like the end of “It’s A Wonderful Life.â€
*Many years later, just before the Browns left Cleveland and my Steelers hate was smoldering to embers, I had a standing bet with then Xavier basketball coach Skip Prosser — well, I think we had the bet twice. Skip was a huge Steelers fan, I still had lingering feelings for the Browns (this was during the Belichick days) and the bet was that if the Steelers won, I had to wear the black-and-gold T-shirt to the next Xavier basketball game (under my shirt and tie) and if the Browns won he had to wear the orange-and-brown T-shirt on the sideline. The Steelers won both games, of course.
Skip, you probably know, went on to Wake Forest and then, in 2007, he collapsed in his office and died of a massive heart attack. When I think of him, I think of two things. I think how he always used to say that the most beautiful sight in the world was coming out of the Fort Pitt Tunnel into downtown Pittsburgh at night. And, I’ll admit, it is pretty special. The second thing I remember was hearing the phone ring early on a Monday morning after a big Steelers win, letting it go to the machine, and then listening to his gravelly voice go: “The black and gold will never die!â€
More often, of course, the Browns lost to the Steelers — for years and years, the Browns were cursed at Three Rivers Stadium. they could not beat Pittsburgh there — and I can just remember how much those Steelers’ victories tore me apart, how badly those losses hurt, how much I hated all those guys — Bradshaw, Franco, Lambert, Ham, the whole bunch of them.
And this comes back to my point: Because I grew up despising the Pittsburgh Steelers, in an odd way, I feel like I understand them. It’s like I have always believed that I have a better understanding of John Elway than I do of, say, Ozzie Newsome or Bernie Kosar or Hanford Dixon or some other player who played for the Browns. I feel like I probably have a deeper understanding of John Elway than some of his biggest fans. Because Elway was on the other side. I watched him drive his Broncos 98 yards down my throat, I saw him bounce away from Browns defensive ends and fling the ball 60 yards on a line, I knew (and as a Browns fan, you KNEW) that this son of a gun was going to find a way to beat you no matter what, he was going to pull out your beating heart and show it to you, he was going to win every single time because, damn it, he was better than you.
That’s a whole different thing, watching the enemy, studying them, fearing them, loathing them. And as the years have gone on, and everything from my childhood from music to television to sports becomes nostalgic, the explicit hatred I once felt for the Pittsburgh Steelers has faded. And what is left is the remnants of fear and jealousy and anxiety I felt about the Steelers. As I watched the Steelers pulverize the Ravens in Pittsburgh, it felt so much like the games i watched as a kid. Only now all my childhood emotions were drained. I was watching the same Steelers doing the same things, only I was seeing it clearly.
And I wrote this:
PITTSBURGH | Football is violence. It’s easy to forget that sometimes, easy to start believing that football is about other more pleasant things, that it is about coaching and strategy and star quarterbacks and fabulous catches and touchdown dances and defensive schemes and former players and coaches yukking it up back in the studio.
Then you come to Pittsburgh. And it’s all made clear.
…
Football isn’t a show in Pittsburgh. Football is not an event. Football is Jack Lambert, with those missing front teeth, tearing a running back to the ground. Football is Mean Joe Greene picking up offensive linemen and throwing them out of the way like empty beer cans. Pittsburgh football is pain and fractured bones and breath that in the cold looks like smoke pouring out of the steel-mill chimneys. You know what musical act played halftime of the AFC championship game Sunday? Bruce Springsteen? U2? Maroon 5? Beyonce? Come on. This is Pittsburgh. And at halftime (with the score a very Pittsburgh 13-6), the Kittanning Firemen’s Band walked out to perform. They all wore different clothes. They were a bit rusty. They had not played since the Pennsylvania Firemen’s State Convention Parade in Gettysburg in September.
…
It’s funny, the NFC championship was played across the country, and it was entirely different, it was indoors, in Arizona, and it was an air show, a spectacle, it was Arizona receiver Larry Fitzgerald running free, it was quarterback Kurt Warner throwing four touchdown passes, it was a blur of red confetti being blown on the field after the Cardinals won. Collective Soul played at halftime.
That’s fine for them. But that’s not football. Not in Pittsburgh.
“Sure, I’m hurting,†Pittsburgh quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said when it ended. “But it hurts less when you win.â€
Now, the Steelers are about to play the Arizona Cardinals in the Super Bowl, and as I’ve mentioned here before, I have a real fondness for the Cardinals, they were the team I semi-adopted after the Browns left Cleveland, they have Kurt Warner, who I think might be the greatest sports story ever*, and they have receiver Larry Fitzgerald, who is like Super Tecmo Bowl come to life, and they have 61 years of pain to fall back on.
*I think the stockboy to Super Bowl to injured quarterback to Super Bowl again to injured quarterback to New York Giants flop to washed up Arizona Cardinals quarterback to journeyman to Super Bowl is just preposterous — it’s like THREE movies. But as everyone goes crazy with the whole “Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer†talk, someone should probably ask this question: Do you know how many seasons Kurt Warner has played 16 games? Do you know?
Three.
That would be three. As in the number after two. Now, it is true, that all three of those the team went to the Super Bowl, which is impressive. And his story is beyond incredible, but that would still be THREE FULL SEASONS.
Look, the Pro Football Hall of Fame is very different from baseball for a lot of reasons. It is much more a Hall of FAME. I believe the players are recognized more for the role they played in football history than they are for sustained excellence or career achievements or anything like that. So maybe, in that context, Warner is a Hall of Famer. You could not tell the NFL story the last two decades without him. But if Kurt Warner goes to the Hall of Fame based on three seasons, then you have to consider Terrell Davis, who had FOUR full seasons (three of them great) and he took two teams to the Super Bowl. Shoot, Priest Holmes had three great seasons (and he won a Super Bowl, though not in any of his great seasons). Ken Anderson had more than three great seasons, In a way, I think, you would have to reconsider Jim Plunkett, an amazing story himself who, at the end of a strange career, led the Raiders to two Super Bowl championships.
Point is, I have a fondness for the Cardinals. But I guess I know the Steelers. The Cardinals are fun. But the Steelers are family — not family that you like all the time but family just the same. You understand family. Yes, people from Pittsburgh have been writing me, thanking me, praising me, it’s really quite strange. And the thing so many of them say is this: “Did you ever live in Pittsburgh?†or “You must have some family from Pittsburgh to write an article like that,†or “It’s clear from your article (and your name) that you have a whole lot of Pittsburgh in you.â€
Of course, the truth is, that what I wrote came from Cleveland and from being on the other side. Sometimes, maybe even most of the time, that’s the best view.
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Excellent column. Really damn good.
who is like Super Tecmo Bowl come to life
Ahh – Tecmo Bowl…just imagine the grades I could have had without it consuming most waking hours of first year residence…
After you land at the Pittsburgh airport, on the way to baggage claim, you see two statues: One is of George Washington, who fought the French here, and went on to some level of fame. The other is of Franco Harris, who made the Immaculate Reception, the touchdown catch that beat the Oakland Raiders in 1972. Locals insist that more photographs are taken with Franco.
Of course, there’s tons of places you can get your picture taken with a statue of George Washington, whereas I’m sure that’s the only place you can get your picture taken with a statue of Franco. So yeah, I believe them. ;D
Say it ain’t so, Joe. I think the world of you, but I’m detecting a hint of a dishonest argument with respect to Kurt Warner’s HoF credentials. Sure, Warner has only played 3 16 game seasons, but that’s not the same thing as saying his HoF qualifications are those 3 seasons. Take his 2000 season, for instance – a fantastic season, even if he played only 11 games.
I agree that the NFL HoF is bizarre – it’s more like the Hall of Very Good Players Who Won Superbowls (how ridiculous is it that the most team-dependent sport places the highest emphasis on SBs when it comes time to assigning HoF spots?). But how does one justify Tom Brady’s slam dunk status (I’m just going by consensus here, not my own feeling) while slighting Warner?
Head to head with Brady, Warner has:
-more career yards
-more yards per game
-a better completion percentage
-a higher career passer rating
-and, in my view, the most important passing stat – a *much* higher pass per attempt (8.0 yards v. 7.2 yards)
And he’s generally done this playing with worse teams (and bad coaches – hell, a big slight against Warner was being unceremoniously dumped by Tom Coughlin in the middle of 2004 when he was having a fine season – a decision that likely cost the Giants a playoff berth; seriously, how is Tom Coughlin’s flightiness a knock against Kurt Warner?).
I love this blog. A few things:
* Pedro Guerrero played for the Cards but not the Cubs.
* Steve Young only played 16 games three times. He was on some crappy Tampa teams, he backed up Montana for 3-4 years and he got hurt a few times. I don’t disagree that he’s a Hall of Famer but he surprisingly breezed in, perhaps because he’s in the TV business.
* Ken Anderson was very underrated. Plus he was one of the coffee achievers from the early 1980s. He deserves more recognition.
* One last thought – the Cardinals missed a home Super Bowl by just a year. It certaintly would have been something else to have the Cardinals, playing in the Super Bowl in their home stadium – and be outnumbered by Steeler fans.
[...] View original post here:Â The Stillers [...]
pretty much ZERO qbs plays 16 games in a season these days. if we were to adhere to your argument, then brett favre would be the only hall of fame qb, and really, brett favre kind of sucked.
not that i agree with warner, but he definitely has a case
This has nothing to do with Jerry and Ben Stiller.
Am I the only guy who read the headline and thought, “hmm, I wonder why he’s writting about Ben and Jerry Stiller?”
Despite my disappoint at learning this was about, you know, a football team, it’s another great piece Joe.
Cheers.
As a lifelong Cleveland fan, I can’t say anything I’ve ever read better describes the way I see football than this article. Great job, Joe.
I must admit, I don’t like Steeler’s fans. They’re everywhere and they’re very obnoxious.
However. During that Ravens game I saw a sign (that has since been posted to Deadspin and KSK that I know of) that said “You’re still the Browns to us!” or something similar. And that, I thought, was the best sign I’ve ever seen. Because they’re still the Browns to me, too.
I’m still waiting for Joe to make a definitive pick on who he thinks actually wins the game. Or, more importantly, does Arizona cover???
Warner also had far, far better receivers, outside of last season when Brady had Moss and Welker.
Your reference to Prosser, one of my favorite collegiate coaches ever, was amplified even more by your Ft pitt tunnel reference. I have been fortunate to have been in all American cities of substance….I was in Pittsburgh as a young man in the late 60’s when it was impossible to wear anything a second day because of the soot accumulated in a day on the Pittsburgh streets.
Twenty years later, with that “dirty” memory, I landed in Pittsburgh as the sun was setting and was picked up at the old terminal by my rep in western PA. As we headed towards the city and another mundane hotel room he mentioned that I was lucky to come to town on a very unique evening. He declined any explanation saying only, “you’ll see”. As we approached Mt Washington he said, simply, “pay attention.”
To say that I was overwhelmed as we exited the Ft Pitt tunnel is doing a diservice to the word. I was stunned by the beauty of what Pittsburghers call “light up night” in which virtually every light in every building of downtown is luminating. That remains, to this day, the most impressive vista I have ever seen in an American city. The suddenness of the city sprawling beneath the exit from the tunnel so unexpectedly is breathtaking on an average day or night. Russ, my rep, was right. I was more than lucky. I have exited that tunnel many times since but will never forget my first time on “light up Night.”
Having a team you truly hate is nice, because it gives you a bazck-up rooting interest. How fun would last year’s Super Bowl have been if I didn’t hate the Patriots? The only interesting thing to me the last two postseasons in baseball was watching the Cubs lose. That was great. And sometimes it can carry over. By the time they came back and beat the Cubs, I was a Marlins fan in ‘03 (not that I needed to be to root for them against the Yankees, but it helped).
There really are two reactions, usually, to really caring about one team in respect to their division rivals. One is that when your team loses, you want the ones they lost to to represent well going forward (I’m usually like this in NCAA basketball). The other is to despise them. In baseball, when you root hard for the Astros over the course of a season and then multiple seasons every day, expending way too much of your emotional energy into them, it is hard not to hate the Cardinals and Cubs (and to a lesser extent, the Reds and Brewers). It just is.
If Kurt Warner is the best sports story ever, I’m done with sports. It’s a good story, but give me a friggin break. If that’s the best it gets, we’re all wasting our time following this crap.
Rulon Gardner. Cliff Young. Leon Powe. Jason whats-his-name with the high school 3-pointers. Miracle. Lance Armstrong. Greg Lamond. Monica Seles. Jim Thorpe. Jim Abbott throwing a no-hitter with one hand. Pedro Martinez sitting under a mango tree waiting for the bus. Sammy Sosa playing baseball with a cut up milk jug as his glove. Babe Ruth and the called shot… and everything, really. Lou Gehrig, the luckiest man on the face of the earth.
I grew up about 18 miles south of Youngstown, OH maybe 8 miles west of the OH-PA border. In the ’50s-’60s this was almost exclusively Cleveland Browns territory. Funny thing was, our TV antennae was situated such that we received the Pittsburgh stations much better than the Cleveland ones – in fact, we could hardly ever get a Cleveland station in clearly enough to watch even for a few minutes. Less than 1/4 mile away my grandparents were able to receive both cities’ stations equally well.(?) So, guess what city’s pro teams I became more attracted to? I enjoyed the history of the Browns and they were clearly much better than the poor Steelers of that era but it was more fun pulling for the Steelers. When they almost made the playoffs in ‘62 or ‘63 with Bobby Layne as their QB I was so happy just because they didn’t end the season with another losing record. So, when Chuck Noll came to the ‘Burgh in ‘69 and things totally began to turn for the Steelers I wasn’t even sure how to accept their winning. I think when they traveled to Oakland in late Dec ‘74 and upset the Raiders in the AFC Champ Game I was convinced that it was, in fact, for real.
Now, I’m long removed from that area and have less of a rooting interest but I still get chills when I think back to the ’70s Steelers and just how great they were and what they meant to their city and surrounding areas. Now, I hope someday that the Browns can come back to life and enjoy the sensation of winning one or more Super Bowls. Waiting since 1964 seems hardly fair. When will adequate replacements for Dr. Frank Ryan, Jimmy Brown, Frank Collins, Paul Warfield and so many others appear to help the Brownies? I hope soon…It has to really sting Browns fans to see the Chicago/St. Louis/Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals make their first appearance in a Super Bowl. Sorry, Cleveland…. Maybe next decade…???
So why is this post called “The Stillers?” Did I completely miss something?
From 2002-2007 Kurt Warner’s record as a starter was 13-29.
During those six years his teams went 30-24 in games that Warner did NOT start.
How in the heck can a Hall of Fame QB have a six-year stretch in mid-career during which his teams won at a .555 rate without him and a .310 rate with him?
@ Bill C … if you’ve ever spoken with a true Steelers fan, the pronunciation of the nickname is Stillers. I would go further and point out that Pittsburgh often comes out Picksburg for the locals — hence the Picksburg Stillers. It’s really quite a charming affectation, as they often are in cities all across America, like Nawlins, or in the case of my hometown, Cincinnati, where West Siders pronounce is Cincinnata.
As a lifelong suffering Bengals fan, and now longtime resident of Cleveland, I’ve seen the Stillers from both points of view, so I’ve had two unique opportunities to admire and hate them all at the same time.
As a Bengals fan, all I’ve ever wanted is a team that plays defense like the Stillers do, runs the ball like the Stillers do and has a quarterback with moxie who makes plays like Big Ben does. If I had been born into the world with absolutely no team affiliation, the Stillers would be the perfect team for me, the embodiment of exactly how I believe football should be played. And that only makes me hate them all the more — because I know, deep down, that even if the Bengals were to capture that lightning in a bottle and play just like that for one miraculous season (the closest they came was 1988, with a solid running game and tough QB, but the defense was mediocre at best), that’s all it would be — a fleeting moment, and then they’d go back to being the Bungles.
But in Picksburg, playing football that way is a way of life, and they’ve been doing it exactly that way for 35 years, win or lose, and that just kills me. I don’t know whether to love them or hate them half the time, but the two annual beatdowns of my Bengals always seems to push me toward the latter.
I hope the Cards put up a 30-spot on them, but I know they won’t. The Stillers live to beat up pretty teams, and they’ll chew up the Cardinals and spit them out on Sunday. Damn it.
Bill C.: Folks in western PA talk rather differently…Most can’t or won’t say Steeeelers. To them it’s Stillllers. Listen to Dan Rooney Sunday night when he hoists the Stillers 6th Lombardi Trophy and is interviewed by whomever. It’s a language all to its own but most of those folks in western PA seem to understand one another. Ever hear someone say “youans’? Like, what are youans doin’?
I thought they said “yinz” as the second personal pronoun?
Another Stillers-Cards connection is their rivalry in the old Century Division of the NFL in the late ’60s. A division won in every year of its existence (three) by … the Cleveland Browns.
Actually, I sorta think Plunkett belongs in the HOF. It wasn’t just his play. It was the fact that nobody but Plunkett could have gotten the locker room respect from that Raiders team needed to keep them together. You needed to be a tough, crazy, slightly alcoholic SOB to lead that team, and Plunkett was just the man for the job.
That’s not to say I’d lobby for him. I think we need to spend a BUNCH of time working on getting some of the great linemen in before another QB. (I mean, really, none of the Hogs are in???) But I don’t think it would be crazy for Plunkett to make it.
to Bill C. – Joe is using the Western PA-Pittsburgh accent – many nativves say the word “Steelers” to sound like “Stillers”
I cannot love the Steelers. Unlike Chardon Jimmy, I can’t even admire them, as I know many of my fellow Cincinnatians and Bengals fans do. The wounds are still too fresh. And, yes, the blow that Kimo Von Hitman delivered to Carson Palmer’s knee was intentional and dirty, and you will never convince me otherwise. Let’s not forget these are the same fans that eulogized Bernard Pollard’s destruction of Tom Brady’s knee by printing “Bernard Pollard Fan Club” t-shirts. These are mean, nasty, small-minded people. But Chardon Jimmy is right. They will chew up the pretty Cardinals and spit them out on Sunday. So I will sit there watching the Super Bowl in my “Stuck the Feelers” t-shirt, watching the Steelers decimate the Cardinals, and it will all be kind of pathetic really.
I always heard (and spelled) it as yins, not youans. Don’t shoot your brother with those gumbands (rubber bands) – you’ll put his eye out. And maybe if you don’t forget to red up (clean) your room and warsh the car, we can go dahntahn (downtown) for some sliders, or maybe to Permanny’s (Primanti’s) – YUM!
BTW, Gary (not Frank) Collins was one of the great and underappreciated WR in Browns history. Thanks, #86!
Being from New England, this is exactly how I felt about the Yankees (and sort of about the Dolphins) growing up. It’s only recently that I’ve begun rooting for the Yankees to lose all the time. I might go so far to say that the Yanks were my second favorite team growing up, in a way.
The NY Rangers. HATE the Rangers. And I do actively root against them even when they aren’t playing my guys.
Mikey: Thanks for the correction, GARY Collins – not Frank. He sure had a great game on that cold, cloudy day in Dec ‘64 vs the Colts!
Also, I agree on the silly talk of Kurt Warner and the HOF. I guess they will be adding 2-3 more wings to the building in Canton soon if we start putting in guys like Kurt Warner.
Maybe it is/was “yins”. Definitely do the worsh or warsh on warshday around the Picksburg area.
To this day I am amazed how many people spell Pittburgh incorrectly, like they are to lazy or busy to add the ‘h” at the end!
“And, yes, the blow that Kimo Von Hitman delivered to Carson Palmer’s knee was intentional and dirty, and you will never convince me otherwise.”
Can Carson Palmer and Marvin Lewis convince you otherwise?
Palmer: “Football is football. I don’t think it was malicious at all. He’s a guy with a high motor that plays hard and was playing hard. It just happened. I don’t think in any way he was trying to do anything. It’s just part of the game.”
Lewis: “I think everybody who knows Kimo knows he plays hard. He’s not a bad player or bad person. He’s a good person. But it’s unfortunate and it happened.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/news/story?id=2285810
(I knew you’d get to the HOF eventually!)
Great post, but I need to vent: “and they have 61 years of pain to fall back on.”
NO no no no 1000 times no. They’ve been in three frickin cities in 61 years, no one single Cards fan was a fan of the Chicago Cards, almost none could possible be fans of the St. Louis Cards, who now have a new team as well, and I refuse to acknowledge this ridiculous “61 years” thing as being anything along the lines of the Cubs and Indians. It’s not even in the same universe.
Yeah, being from Boston, I’m supposed to root against the Yankees, and I do mostly, but I know what you are talking about. I watched the ‘96 world series and came away with the impression that the Yankees were the only team that remembered how to play baseball. My brother and I, after watching one of the games (I think it was game three, Pettitte in Atlanta, Paul O’Neil broke up a double play with a hard slide in the top of the inning, and Jeter called a bluff with his knee to turn a double play in the bottom) were both pulling for the Yanks. When we told my dad, he sat in stunned silence, but when I told him I thought the Yankees were the only team that remembered how to play the game, he said he thought I might be right.
I don’t know why they have the H at the end. There’s Pittsburg, KS. And Harrisburg, PA. Silly yinsers. Western PA is also the line of demarcation between ’soda’ and ‘pop’. East of PGH is ’soda’ country, whereas in PGH and points west, you have entered the ‘pop’ belt.
I enjoy watching the Steelers lose.
Joe, Why aren’t you writing for the Cleveland Pain Feeler? We need you back in Cleveland. January ‘09 is turning out to have as much snow as January ‘78. You need a column to write about? That’s a good one right there. The Blizzard of ‘78. Plenty of people don’t know what it’s like to have to dig out your front door to leave the house.
Great post Joe. In the same vein as your article on what the Chiefs would be like if they would have drafted Troy Polamalu, what do you think the Browns would be like if they wouldn’t have passed on Ben Roethlisberger? With the 6th pick in the 2004 draft the Browns took Kellen Winslow part two instead of Ohio’s own Roethlisberger. That pick both hurt the Browns and helped the Steelers and since that time the Browns have never beat the Steelers. As a Miami University alum who lived with three Browns fans from Cleveland this point is something I enjoy bringing up.
To here @ 23: Really? That’s what it is? Is that a thing? I have cousins, aunts and uncles from Pittsburgh. They’ve lived there their whole lives. I’ve been there many times. They say Y’uns as the plual of you. They have that odd, western PA inflection when asking questions. And I’ve never heard them or anyone else say Steelers to sound like Stillers.
Pittsburgh has an H at the end because Johnny Forbes was a Scot. He would have pronounced it “Pittsburrruhh”, like Edinburgh. Those damned Englishmen that took over screwed up the pronunciation.
Hmm, I don’t get the doubting of Warner:
Here are an unnamed HOF QB’s career stats:
G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk%
Career 140 130 63-63-4 1886 3762 50.1 27663 173 4.6 220 5.8 91 7.4 5.2 14.7 197.6 65.5 109 1052 6.9 4.8 2.8
This unnamed HOF QB did win a SB, was an All-Pro one time and a Pro Bowl player 4 times. I do not believe he was ever MVP of his league. He suffered through many injuries in the middle and end of his career, playing a full season only once in the last 8 seasons of his career. In the last 8 seasons of his career, his record as a QB was 25-42. He led his team to the playoffs twice, once his team won the SB, the other time, they got beat 13-6 in a game where he was 14 of 40 with 3 interceptions. (as a Chiefs fan, I am mighty grateful for this crap performance) He led the league in TDs thrown once (and threw more interceptions than TDs that year) and interceptions 4 times.
Now Warner:
110 85 48-37-0 2327 3557 65.4 28591 182 5.1 114 3.2 85 8.0 7.1 12.3 259.9 93.8 236 1497 7.1 6.3 6.2
He was NFL MVP 2 times, led his team to the SB three times, winning it at least once. He is 8-2 in the playoffs.
Now, maybe the unnamed HOFer is in because of his story. It is a famous story, of course, and even if his “guarantee” worked out more because of Matt Snell and the Jets D (are any of them in the HOF, btw?), he is a great story.
Just not greater than Warner’s and given his inferior career to Warner’s, I think if a new wing should be started in Canton, it should start with Joe Willie, not Warner
Mark W #28: I hear you. People are too busy to add the “h” in Pittsburgh. Some people are even too busy to add the “s”. Are you still amazed?
#38 – Clearly Joe Namath got there because of his name recognition. Had he had the same career in Kansas City, he’d be an afterthought. His credentials for entry into the HOF are as a winner of a Super Bowl, but far more importantly because he made the Super Bowl the spectacle that it has become. Just like the ‘58 NFL Championship put the NFL on the map, the ‘68 Super Bowl put the Super Bowl on the road to the spectacle that it has now become. Prior to that game, the NFL Championship was the *real* championship, while the Super Bowl was merely an attempt for the NFL to avoid embarrassment, little more than an exhibition game somewhat akin to the old NFL Champions against the College All-Stars games.
Agree with Mickey. Super Bowl III was the catalyst in creating the NFL as we now know it. It’s arguably the most important game in league history.
It’s so hard to compare passing stats of Namath’s era to Warner’s. In 1966 Namath led the AFL in completions, attempts, and passing yards. In all three categories his numbers from that season wouldn’t even sniff the top ten today.
As a Ravens fan, I have to say this is the very worst thing Joe has ever written, and I mean that in the most respectful sense of the word.
I’m from Pittsburgh (no, I do not say “yinz” or “Stillers”). I agree with Chris in Dallas with regards to the soda vs. pop thing. I say “soda” myself as “pop”, but have family who says “pop”. Another good one is “wushrag” (instead of wash cloth), but that might just be an old person thing.
I think most of the comments on Joe’s Polamalu column were left by people who are profoundly retarded.
If Warner and the Cardinals win the Super Bowl, I think Warner has a solid case for the HOF. Has any QB ever won the Super Bowl with two different teams? If, as I expect, the Steelers win, then I think Warner needs to do more to get into the HOF. Not that my opinion matters.
If the Super Bowl were in Phoenix, it’s *possible* that there would be lots of Stiller fans in the stadium, but I seriously doubt they’d outnumber the Cardinal fans. The game against the Eagles sold out in six minutes. There are Cardinals related advertisements on every television station, not just on NBC (which has the Super Bowl). I’m not particularly a fan of either team (perhaps a better way to phrase it is that nobody I strongly root for made the playoffs this year, and I think both the Steelers and the Cardinals are fun teams to watch for very different reasons) but I just don’t see the Cardinals winning. Then again, I didn’t see them beating Carolina, and was rather surprised the Eagles (another team I enjoy) didn’t win that one.
To me, the Cardinals right now do some things well, but aren’t great (or great enough) in any area. I mean, their aerial offense doesn’t compare to the greatest show on turf, their running game doesn’t compare to Marshall Faulk, and their defense is unlikely to be considered elite. The Steelers have an elite defense, a better running game, and enough passing to win given how few points they’ll give up. I don’t think I’d pick the Cardinals over Baltimore either, and I know I wouldn’t pick them over the Titans. So *if* the Cardinals win, it will almost certainly have to come from Kurt Warner, and thus, to me, he would deserve his HOF entry. But this is a discussion best held on Monday.
Sorry to be off topic, but I figured some of you would appreciate this parody of the Snuggies commercial:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1897842
Just to warn the super-sensitive, it’s probably a PG-13.
I went to college in Rochester, NY, and we discussed pop v. soda at every opportunity. I think it’s the east-west dividing point.
Check this out:
http://popvssoda.com:2998/countystats/total-county.html
“Has any QB ever won the Super Bowl with two different teams?”
Don’t think so. Van Brocklin won in the pre-SB era with the Rams and the Iggles — oops, Eagles. Craig Morton lost SBs with two different teams.
Joe,
Always love reading your stuff. I’m a sports writer two years out of college in a fairly small town in Southern Oregon (a place I’d never heard of before I got a job here).
Any time I feel sorry for myself — like the nights when I have 10 minutes left on deadline and I’m trying to dash out a few extra inches on a high school wrestling match (oh, the horror) — it’s always good to take some time reading a guy who can apparently crank out 100 inches of high-quality copy each day. It’s like taking a quick sip of red bull.
Anyway … The Skip Prosser tangent sounds like it would be worth a post of its own. Maybe you already did one though?
Keep of the good work, of course. Enjoyed Soul of Baseball. My current boss used to be the SE in Joplin — said you were a good dude.
All the best.
Joe, with the HOF voting coming this weekend, I wanted to remind you of something you said last year when Derrick Thomas was passed over again. You said… and I quote…
“there’s a very long blog post to be done on the Pro Football Hall of Fame voters but I don’t want to write that”
Here’s hoping you’ve changed your mind!
Joe,
Great Post. Grew up in Cleveland. In the 60’s the Steelers weren’t all that good. Then in the Chuck Noll era, with some wonderful draft picks they became amazing. But it continued through Cowher, and even afterward.
Of course, Chuck Noll grew up in Cleveland and played for the Browns. Bill Cowher played and was a defensive coach for the Browns. So at least in the coaching department, there is a Cleveland connection.
An old trivia question – who replaced Chuck Noll (as a player) on the Browns?
Chris is right about the hit from Kimo Von Cheapshot. Palmer and Lewis would not say it out loud but they know it too. The Steelers were not going to beat the Bengals that day without taking out Palmer and the Chin knew it. Whenever you dive at the knees of the quarterback, it is dirty.
Steve Young is in after playing only 3 full seasons. Warner should be an easy call.
Joe, from a Steelers fan, you are fantqastic and inspire me to write my own blog (where I learned that it isn’t as easy as you make it look). Thanks very much
I sort of agree that Steve Young is a shaky call, but I would ask how many BAD seasons Steve Young had.
Kurt Warner was a bad QB for six years. He was roughly a replacement level player from 2002-2007.
Totally agree that sometimes you know your rivals better than their own fans do. As a Cub fan, I really think that I know just how good Pujols is in a way that big Cards fans don’t. To put it a different way, Cards fans feel in their hearts how good Pujols is, but Cubs fans feel it in the gut. Specifically, as a sick feeling of terror in the gut. The flip-side, I think, is that Cub fans tend to underrate Sosa these days, but if you talk to a Cards fan, you can still sense just how scary Sammy was about a decade ago.
[...] It’s funny, the NFC championship was played across the country, and it was entirely different, it was indoors, in Arizona, and it was an air show, a spectacle, it was Arizona receiver Larry Fitzgerald running free, it was quarterback …$anchor_text[$anchor_choice] [...]
[...] bookmarks tagged collective soul The Stillers » Joe Posnanski saved by 4 others ffbbiilol bookmarked on 01/30/09 | [...]
Since the Vikings haven’t participated in a Super Bowl since I was a child I am always left deciding between the two teams.
Preference for the underdog
Automatic root against the Cowboys, Washington, Bill Parcells, Pakcers, Patriots…
Preference for the city that hasn’t won recently
Minnesota connections
Friends connections..
It gets complicated
If it wasn’t for Mike Tomlin and some buddies from the ‘burgh I would root for AZ, but go Steelers.
Joe – Great article great post yadda yadda..
There should be some sort of shorthand abbreviation for complimenting Joe on his writing.
I propose JGWKICTY (Joe, Great work keep it coming thank you.) But I am open to alternatives
One thing I know to be true: Wherever you go in life, there will be Steelers fans. I’m going to hate how uppity they’ll get after they win Super Bowl No. 6, but there’s absolutely no question that Pittsburgh has the NFL’s best fans. So for that, I guess they deserve it.
Joe, I got to the part about the halftime show and I had to stop and comment. Because seven years ago, when the Steelers hosted the Patriots in the ‘01 AFC championship, the halftime act was… Sheryl Crow. I can’t tell you how messed up it was to see her indifferently perform “Soak Up the Sun” in the old Three Rivers Stadium. Very successful artist — and I don’t absolutely hate all of her songs. But an utterly wrong choice for that setting.
Needless to say, the Steelers lost that day…
“Kurt Warner was a bad QB for six years. He was roughly a replacement level player from 2002-2007.”
‘02 and ‘03, yes, he was bad, but you have to take thumb and hand injuries into account. From ‘04 to ‘07 his lowest QB rating would still be in the top 20 career wise. I think he’s a hall of famer.
[...] Joe Posnanski’s thoughts on the Steelers AFC Championship as someone who grew up in Cleveland [...]
If the city is all about tough, championship football, why isn’t the University of Pittsburgh better than average?
Warner may not make the NFL Hall of Fame, but he’s a lock for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
[...] Joe Posnanski placed an interesting blog post on The StillersHere’s a brief overview It’s a strange feeling to be a hero in Pittsburgh. But, well, there it is. For more than a week now, I have been receiving a flood of emails and phone calls and letters from people in Pittsburgh, all of them thanking me for the column I wrote off the Steelers-Ravens AFC Championship Game. Apparently it is making the rounds. I’ve heard from fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, grandfathers who said they cried. People have sent me songs they have written about the Steelers. They have sent me [...]