Comments on: Hall of Fame Ballot 2009 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/ A Rough Draft Blog Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:12:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: SportsFan7777 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-91733 SportsFan7777 Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:16:18 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-91733 Good Comments. But, Jack Morris should be in. That bulldog carried 3 teams on his back to WS titles (Tigers, Twins, Blue Jays). What about Lance Parish whose stats match up pretty good with Gary Carter's!!?? What about Trammel and Lou Whitaker getting in as one of the best double play combinations in MLB history with some of the best longevity??!! Good Comments.
But, Jack Morris should be in.
That bulldog carried 3 teams
on his back to WS titles
(Tigers, Twins, Blue Jays).

What about Lance Parish
whose stats match up pretty good
with Gary Carter’s!!??

What about Trammel and Lou Whitaker
getting in as one of the best double
play combinations in MLB history
with some of the best longevity??!!

]]> By: Robert http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48453 Robert Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:30:39 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48453 I just want to say as a fan of baseball. I would like to say that Mattingly was a better player off the field than on it. These days people need to see a leader off the field. He did a lot of good things for the kids off the field. Personally, I dislike the Yankees. I've always been a Red Sox fan. I grew up with Dwight Evans and Jim Rice. Professionalism is lacking in the last couple of decades. I just want to say as a fan of baseball. I would like to say that Mattingly was a better player off the field than on it. These days people need to see a leader off the field. He did a lot of good things for the kids off the field. Personally, I dislike the Yankees. I’ve always been a Red Sox fan. I grew up with Dwight Evans and Jim Rice. Professionalism is lacking in the last couple of decades.

]]> By: Jim Rice Inducted Into MLB Hall Of Fame | The Viral News Planet http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48223 Jim Rice Inducted Into MLB Hall Of Fame | The Viral News Planet Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:40:02 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48223 [...] like Joe Posnanski, of whom I am a huge fan and usually agree — is that Dawson’s .323 on-base percentage is simply too low for him to be a Hall of Famer. I’ve also seen Ken Rosenthal argue that in the time they [...] [...] like Joe Posnanski, of whom I am a huge fan and usually agree — is that Dawson’s .323 on-base percentage is simply too low for him to be a Hall of Famer. I’ve also seen Ken Rosenthal argue that in the time they [...]

]]> By: Eric http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48201 Eric Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:53:40 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48201 There should be no debate--McGwire admitted to using steroids when he admitted using andro, because andro is a steroid. In my mind, the only questions that remain are 1) do we punish a player for doing what many (most?) of his peers were doing and 2) do we not punish a player because he was ahead of the curve, using a substance before it was banned? There should be no debate–McGwire admitted to using steroids when he admitted using andro, because andro is a steroid. In my mind, the only questions that remain are 1) do we punish a player for doing what many (most?) of his peers were doing and 2) do we not punish a player because he was ahead of the curve, using a substance before it was banned?

]]> By: Richard Aronson http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48025 Richard Aronson Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:23:51 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-48025 I voted for Lee Smith, Blyleven, John, Rickey, Trammell, and Raines. I posted my reasons in the comments for the last HOF vote. I have no major objections to Dawson or Murphy, and could live with Rice, although I'd rather have Dewey than Rice. Heck, even Baines gets some consideration from me. I'd like to vote for Orosco, but I'm not ready to vote for a career setup man/LOOGY, at least not until all the true relief aces get chosen (Joe, how could you?). And I'll vote for McGwire someday, but not yet. Worth mentioning, and I think it probably is something I first heard Vin Scully say, is to consider career length of catchers, catchers who move to other positions, and non-catchers who become catchers. Two of the finest catcher careers were had by Bob Boone (say what you like about his lousy offense, his defense and longevity were superb) who started as a third baseman but moved over since he didn't hit well enough, and Mike Piazza, who was a first baseman until he was drafted, and again wasn't projected to hit well enough to make the bigs. Why is this pertinent to HOF voting? Dale Murphy started as a catcher, which IIRC is why his career was shortened. If this observation is accurate, then I'd tend to give Murphy a bit of a waive of his career shortness issue. I just think Murphy was a better player than Dawson, and I guess the big reason why is that the synergy of Dawson's speed was hamstrung since he was so infrequently on first base, ready to steal second. I voted for Lee Smith, Blyleven, John, Rickey, Trammell, and Raines. I posted my reasons in the comments for the last HOF vote. I have no major objections to Dawson or Murphy, and could live with Rice, although I’d rather have Dewey than Rice. Heck, even Baines gets some consideration from me. I’d like to vote for Orosco, but I’m not ready to vote for a career setup man/LOOGY, at least not until all the true relief aces get chosen (Joe, how could you?). And I’ll vote for McGwire someday, but not yet.

Worth mentioning, and I think it probably is something I first heard Vin Scully say, is to consider career length of catchers, catchers who move to other positions, and non-catchers who become catchers. Two of the finest catcher careers were had by Bob Boone (say what you like about his lousy offense, his defense and longevity were superb) who started as a third baseman but moved over since he didn’t hit well enough, and Mike Piazza, who was a first baseman until he was drafted, and again wasn’t projected to hit well enough to make the bigs. Why is this pertinent to HOF voting? Dale Murphy started as a catcher, which IIRC is why his career was shortened. If this observation is accurate, then I’d tend to give Murphy a bit of a waive of his career shortness issue. I just think Murphy was a better player than Dawson, and I guess the big reason why is that the synergy of Dawson’s speed was hamstrung since he was so infrequently on first base, ready to steal second.

]]> By: Matt http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47891 Matt Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:41:11 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47891 Hey Joe, I know you like to talk about milestone numbers (3,000 hits, 300 Wins, etc.) and how they help (or used to help) players gain "automatic" entry into the Hall. What do you think about a player going 40/40? Obviously, it's a very rare accomplishment and it takes a special (or 'roided up) player to do it, so do you think that would push a borderline player over the top? It's still relatively early in his career, but I don't think many people would consider Alfonso Soriano (and his .329 career OBP) a HOFer, so it probably wouldn't help a guy like him (although if he had hit one more HR in '02 and was the only two-time 40/40 guy, that might make the discussion more interesting). But, if Vlad Guerrero had hit one more HR in 2002, would he be a slam-dunk choice instead of being a potentially borderline candidate (depending on how he finishes his career, of course)? Just wondering your thoughts on the 40/40 club and what it means to be a member of it. Thanks. Hey Joe, I know you like to talk about milestone numbers (3,000 hits, 300 Wins, etc.) and how they help (or used to help) players gain “automatic” entry into the Hall. What do you think about a player going 40/40? Obviously, it’s a very rare accomplishment and it takes a special (or ‘roided up) player to do it, so do you think that would push a borderline player over the top? It’s still relatively early in his career, but I don’t think many people would consider Alfonso Soriano (and his .329 career OBP) a HOFer, so it probably wouldn’t help a guy like him (although if he had hit one more HR in ‘02 and was the only two-time 40/40 guy, that might make the discussion more interesting). But, if Vlad Guerrero had hit one more HR in 2002, would he be a slam-dunk choice instead of being a potentially borderline candidate (depending on how he finishes his career, of course)? Just wondering your thoughts on the 40/40 club and what it means to be a member of it. Thanks.

]]> By: Rick Bergstrom http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47883 Rick Bergstrom Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:43:45 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47883 Hey there Joe. I've loved reading you throughout the years, and got familiar with you through Rob Neyer. That being said, I've seen you write two posts about Dawson's OBP and why it should keep him out of the Hall of Fame yet you, at the same time, look for reasons to include him. I'll admit I'm a Dawson fan and admit as well that I am a big fan of OBP and am very disappointed with how his numbers in that category ended up. I had a similar reaction to Ryne Sandberg, who I thought was a great player and an easy first-ballot Hall of Famer, yet also had a bad OBP by the time that statistic hit the main stream. OBP is a very big part of the game, after all. However, if Dawson's other categories are quite strong, if he is a leader and a person with integrity like his famous "blank check" for his MVP season, shouldn't he still get in? I mean, it's not like you have to pick and choose stats to find areas of the game that Dawson excelled at. But, let's pick and choose and play hypotheticals a second. Let's say Dawson's knees were healthy enough to edge out another full season... close enough where he was a few hits short of 3000 and had a bit more than 450 home runs. Would there be as much discussion? On the other hand, other statistics besides OBP have become valuable such as defensive ability, VORP, WARP, etc. If OBP, though a useful stat, is in still some respects incomplete, can other stats be used to improve his claim? I guess I am afraid that what will happen is that Dawson won't get in after his fifteen years. Perhaps in those 15 years, a better statistic to measure offensive performance than OBP, such as an enhanced WARP or Win Shares, portrays his value better. Nevertheless, I'd hate to see an old Expo like him languishing before the Veteran's Committee... though I guess at that point, at least he can keep Ron Santo company. Hey there Joe. I’ve loved reading you throughout the years, and got familiar with you through Rob Neyer. That being said, I’ve seen you write two posts about Dawson’s OBP and why it should keep him out of the Hall of Fame yet you, at the same time, look for reasons to include him.

I’ll admit I’m a Dawson fan and admit as well that I am a big fan of OBP and am very disappointed with how his numbers in that category ended up. I had a similar reaction to Ryne Sandberg, who I thought was a great player and an easy first-ballot Hall of Famer, yet also had a bad OBP by the time that statistic hit the main stream. OBP is a very big part of the game, after all. However, if Dawson’s other categories are quite strong, if he is a leader and a person with integrity like his famous “blank check” for his MVP season, shouldn’t he still get in? I mean, it’s not like you have to pick and choose stats to find areas of the game that Dawson excelled at.

But, let’s pick and choose and play hypotheticals a second. Let’s say Dawson’s knees were healthy enough to edge out another full season… close enough where he was a few hits short of 3000 and had a bit more than 450 home runs. Would there be as much discussion?

On the other hand, other statistics besides OBP have become valuable such as defensive ability, VORP, WARP, etc. If OBP, though a useful stat, is in still some respects incomplete, can other stats be used to improve his claim?

I guess I am afraid that what will happen is that Dawson won’t get in after his fifteen years. Perhaps in those 15 years, a better statistic to measure offensive performance than OBP, such as an enhanced WARP or Win Shares, portrays his value better. Nevertheless, I’d hate to see an old Expo like him languishing before the Veteran’s Committee… though I guess at that point, at least he can keep Ron Santo company.

]]> By: Josh http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47827 Josh Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:45:57 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47827 As long as one of the topics of this post was that some players don't stay on the ballot long enough to really receive appropriate consideration, I thought I'd point out that it's a travesty that Mattingly has stayed on for so long when Keith Hernandez (at least an equal player, if not superior) was off so quickly. As long as one of the topics of this post was that some players don’t stay on the ballot long enough to really receive appropriate consideration, I thought I’d point out that it’s a travesty that Mattingly has stayed on for so long when Keith Hernandez (at least an equal player, if not superior) was off so quickly.

]]> By: ajnrules http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47712 ajnrules Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:01:32 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47712 Okay...I got curious and did a search...and found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TswTenrEwwM Okay…I got curious and did a search…and found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TswTenrEwwM

]]> By: JGaryW http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47689 JGaryW Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:10:52 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/04/hall-of-fame-ballot-2009/#comment-47689 I can't believe that Raines isn't getting the 75% needed to make the hall in this site's poll. Keep working on them, Poz! I can’t believe that Raines isn’t getting the 75% needed to make the hall in this site’s poll. Keep working on them, Poz!

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