You Play To Win The Game
Posted: January 3rd, 2009 | Filed under: Other Sports | 52 Comments »
I like Kansas City Chiefs coach in limbo, Herm Edwards. This has caused great consternation among friends and readers, but there it is anyway … I like him personally, I like him professionally, I like his energy, I like his enthusiasm for football and life, I like that he might at any time go off on a “You play to win the game,†rant, I like the way players seem to play hard for him.
Of course, I don’t really like the way he coaches actual football games … and, as they say in Swingers, there’s the rub. The Chiefs went 2-14 this year, and while Herm and the guys will talk about games the Chiefs should have won (both San Diego games, the Jets game, the Bucs game), that is the loser’s lament, and the truth is they SHOULD have lost the Oakland game*.
*And surely would had the Raiders not been the Raiders and tried a bizarre fake field goal where the holder actually attempted to flip the ball between his legs to a sprinting Sebastian Janikowski — well, as close to sprinting at Sebastian Janikowski can simulate. The ball was fumbled, of course, the Chiefs returned it for a touchdown, that’s a 10-point swing and one of the many times I have watched a Raiders game and thought that if I was Al Davis I would fire somebody at halftime. Preferably myself.
Anyway, in the NFL, close losses don’t mean a thing, and you are what your record says you are, and the Chiefs were an awful and poorly coached football team. Michael Rosenberg and I have had an ongoing debate all year about the Lions and Chiefs — which team is worse — and he sent along this great statistic:
The Chiefs had 10 sacks*, lowest total in NFL history. Rosey points out that is 17 percent of the sack total of the league leader, Dallas, and it’s about one third of the league average. Worth noting: You probably remember that the Chiefs knocked Tom Brady out for the season, but Brady was NOT sacked on the play when he got hurt. In fact, he completed a long pass to Randy Moss (who fumbled).
*Here, for posterity, are the Chiefs sacks for 2008 (and I do break out what I call the “legitimate†sacks — these would be sacks where the quarterback drops back and, before he can find a receiver, is brought to the ground by a defender. The Chiefs had, by my calculations, four-and-a-half legit sacks all year):
Week 1: Matt Cassell sacked by lineman Alfonso Boone on attempted flea flicker.
Matt Cassell sacked legit by linebacker Derrick Johnson
Week 4: Jay Cutler sacked legit by Derrick Johnson
Week 8: Brett Favre sacked legit by Tamba Hali — first legitimate sack by a defensive lineman. And it’s Week 8.
Week 10: Phillip Rivers ran around the pocket for what seemed like an an hour, took off running and was was dragged to the ground about an inch and a half behind the line of scrimmage by touted first-round pick Glenn Dorsey. Minus-1. This is Dorsey’s season total of sacks.
Phillip Rivers sacked legit by backup defensive end Ron Edwards.
Week 15: Phllip Rivers has ball knocked out of his hands as Hali was running by. That counts as a sack.
Phillip Rivers has ball knocked out of his hands AGAIN as Hali runs by. Counts as a sack again. If not for Phillip Rivers, the Chiefs would have … well, been even worse.
Phillip Rivers running around again, all day to throw, finally takes off and is dragged down by just-picked-off-waiver defensive end Justin Babin. Minus-2.
Week 17: Ryan Fitzpatrick steps up in the pocket and is sacked semi-legit by Babin. That’s the half-legit sack.
The Lions, meanwhile, had four interceptions this year, and that is an NFL record as well.* As Michael points out that is 15% of the league-leading total (Baltimore) and less than one-third the league average. The secondary had one interception and, best I can tell, 14 passes defensed all season. You wonder how much worse the Lions would have been had they not played any safeties at all.
*The Houston Oilers had three interceptions in 1982, but that, of course, was the strike season and only nine games. Before that you have to go back to the St. Louis Gunners of 1934 — they only had three interceptions, but this was in part because they were only invited to play three games that season after the Cincinnati Reds were thrown out of the league.
Michael’s point being — there are basically two ways to stop a passing attack. You get to the quarterback or you hound the receivers. The Chiefs may have been the worst in NFL history at one way, the Lions may have been the worst in NFL history the other way.
Anyway, back to Herm Edwards. I think he was probably underrated as a coach before he came to Kansas City. He did take the Jets to the playoffs three times in five years … and these are the NEW YORK JETS. They had been to the playoffs once the nine seasons before Edwards took over. The coach who has taken more Jets team to the playoffs than any other? Herm Edwards.
But, it’s fair to say that people in New York do not see Herm in the same light. My buddy Vackie and I have had a longstanding argument about Edwards time with the Jets … he believes Herm inherited a good football team from the Parcells era and underachieved with them. I see a team that Parcells himself coached to 8-8 in 1999, then Al Groh coached to 9-7 before getting the hell out, a team with 37-year old Vinny Testaverde at quarterback, a team that had finished in the bottom half in points the previous two seasons, a team with, at best, a mediocre defense.
Herm took that team to the playoffs in 2001. Then he inserted Chad Pennington into the lineup and took them back to the playoffs in 2002. The second year, his Jets obliterated the Indianpolis Colts in the wildcard round before losing at Oakland. The Jets were brutal in 2003 — lost their first four, never recovered — but then they were back in the playoffs in 2004, won a playoff game and should have beaten Pittsburgh to go to the AFC Championship*.
*I do realize that the loss to Pittsburgh — in large part because of Herm’s conservative nature — is actually a strong argument AGAINST Herm Edwards’ coaching ability. But I’m not really discussing his coaching ability as much as saying that, all in all, I think he did a good job in New York.
The Jets had all kinds of injury problems in 2005 and were awful. Herm was traded to Kansas City in a rather nasty little transaction that left a lot of people in New York ticked off and/or grateful. Herm left behind a team good enough to go 10-6 under Eric Mangini the next year. At the time, people in New York were saying that this proved how bad a coach Herm was — look at what Eric Mangini was able to do with the boys! I think now you can argue pretty persuasively that Mangini can’t coach a lick.
So Herm came to Kansas City, and what he did not know — what was hard to know at the time — is that he was entering a DREADFUL situation. The Chiefs were, in my mind, the worst kind of team for any new coach. They were bad but nobody knew it yet. The offensive line, which had been the best in football, was crumbling (and before Herm coached his first game, the brilliant left tackle Willie Roaf retired). Their best player for years, Priest Holmes, was out with a strange neck injury and nobody had any idea when or if he would come back (he did not that year). The quarterback, Trent Green, was old and just about finished and also about to get knocked unconscious for 10 minutes in his first game. The Chiefs best wide receiver was 33-year-old Eddie Kennison, and their second best receiver was someone named Samie Parker.
The defense was absolutely abysmal and had been for five years.
But the expectation level was high because the Chiefs had gone 10-6 the year before in Dick Vermeil’s farewell tour, thanks in large part to the emergence of Larry Johnson and the last moments of brilliance for a great offensive line. With the offensive line crumbled, with his starting quarterback on the bench (and Damon Huard playing much of the time), with more or less the same defensive players who had finished 25th, 31st, 29th and 32nd in yards allowed the previous four years — the Chiefs and Herm rode Larry Johnson* to a 9-7 record and lucked into the playoffs, where they were promptly humiliated by the Indianapolis Colts.
*And I mean the RODE Larry Johnson. He carried the ball 416 times, an NFL record.
In town, people felt like that team should have done so much more — in general, fans here have never liked Herm Edwards. He does have a way of ticking off fans. Still, I remain convinced that it was the best coaching job of Herm’s career.
The next year, everything fell apart. The Chiefs tried one more time to raise the ghosts and play with the ancient offensive line (now Hall of Fame guard Will Shields had retired as well), with Damon Huard at quarterback, with old guys everywhere. The Chiefs started the year 4-3, then lost their last nine … and it was pretty ugly those last nine. It wouldn’t be exactly right to say Herm lost the team. That team was lost from the start.
Then, the Chiefs announced that they were going to start over, go young, play a bunch of rookies, create havoc with their energy and enthusiasm and speed. Sure, they would make some mistakes. Sure, they would have to learn how to win. But this was the way to go — the Chiefs had to go back to the beginning, regain their football soul. They traded away Jared Allen, the NFL sack leader in 2007. They drafted a bunch of kids, invited a bunch more to try out, and they went into the season with a whole bunch of players nobody ever heard of. It was a noble effort.
Unfortunately, it flopped miserably. I like Herm Edwards enough to believe he was never really given a fair shot in Kansas City … he was handed a Krypton team*, and he tried to pull off one of those Instant Rebuilding deals where you throw a whole bunch of young players out there, add water, and hope it works out. He really tried.
*A Krypton Team: A team that refuses to admit it’s about to blow up.
But it doesn’t matter. The Chiefs went 2-14, and as the boys at Upon Further Review point out, there have been 13 coaches who have won two or fewer games in what was NOT their first season as coach.
1971: Harvey Johnson, Bills, 1-13. Fired.
1979: Monte Clark, Lions, 2-14. Retained for five more years.
1981: Mike McCormick, Colts, 2-14. Canned.
1981: Ron Erhardt. Patriots, 2-14. Sacked.
1983: John McKay, Buccaneers, 2-14. Retained, went 6-10, Fired.
1986: Leeman Buccaneers, 2-14. Booted.*
1996: Rich Kotitie, Jets. 1-15. Axed.
2000: Mike Riley, Chargers, 1-15. Dismissed.
2001: George Siefert, Panthers, 1-15. Discharged.
2002: Dick Lebeau, Bengals, 2-14. Dissed.
2004: Dennis Erickson, 49ers, 2-14. Pink slipped.
2005: Dom Capers, Texans, 2-14. Downsized.
2008: Rod Marinelli, Lions, 0-16. Made redundant.
*Bennett actually went 2-14 his first season too, and they kept him on. The second 2-14 was too much, apparently.
As you can see, 11 of the 13 were fired on the spot. One, John McKay, was retained out of respect for what he had done for the Bucs through the years. He was fired a year later.
And then there’s the bizarre case of Detroit’s Monte Clark. He went 2-14 in his second year, that was 1979. The UFR guys put the word “Success†next to his name, and indeed he coached another five seasons after his 2-14 year, so I know exactly what they mean. But I’m not sure that’s precisely the right word. Clark and the Lions went 34-38-1 over those five seasons. The Lions did go to the playoffs twice (once in that crazy strike season — they had a losing record and got obliterated by the Redskins in the playoff game). But I suspect few in Detroit look back with longing to the Monte Clark years.
Point is, you go 2-14 once you’ve had a year or two to work with your team, you are done. And I suspect Herm is done too. In a way, I wish the Chiefs would just let him go now rather than make him wait through the interminable process of hiring a GM and then asking the GM what he wants to do and making it hard on everyone. I guess it’s possible he could survive for one more year, especially if the GM process gets messy and delayed. I’m pretty sure that would not be good for anyone.
I still like Herm Edwards, as both a man and a football coach. I don’t think he’s a football genius, but I don’t think there are many of those running around. I think he’s a solid football guy who can and has built and coached playoff teams. I think he’s a good person who inspires young people. I remain convinced that he’s a coach who in the right situation (college football like Pete Carroll?) could be a big winner.
But this is not that situation. Sure, I see what’s obvious. You can’t go 2-14. You can’t set an NFL record for fewest sacks. You can’t give up more yards than any Chiefs team ever — especially with the preposterous defenses the Chiefs have had the last few years. You can’t go 2-14. You can’t go into a year hoping that Brodie Croyle will be a franchise quarterback. You can’t go into a year hoping that Brodie Croyle will stay healthy for a full game, much less a season. Also, you can’t go 2-14.
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He seems like a first-class guy, a good representative of an organization. You could do worse, I guess.
Which is pretty much the same reason you like Gardenhire. He’s a respectable guy who has gotten some pretty good results despite the obvious (and they are *obvious*) flaws.
In the end, barring the addition of trophies to the case, it’s hard to keep respect for a coach who can’t be bothered to learn the basics of his job (in football: clock management, two-point conversion charts, challenge flags; in baseball: overuse of the bunt and hit-and-run, misusing relief pitchers, refusal to sensibly platoon) because he’s too focused on motivation and clubhouse chemistry. This stuff isn’t rocket science. Especially when we’re talking about football, where playbooks run the length of War and Peace, not giving a damn about understanding the absolute fundamentals is really an inexcusable sin.
That 2-14 season for Dennis Erickson would have been with the 49ers, not the Seahawks.
Herm has been running uphill his entire term in KC…first battling Carl Peterson to let him play young guys, and now angry fans. Sure, it was a bad season, if you look at he win column. But I think he had to go with Brodie. He was the young, promising QB we haven’t had in years. Sure, retrospect will show you that he was too brittle. But nobody can predict the future.
Now we go into the off-seasons with a lot of promise, we have a core of young guys. Through the draft, we infuse a few linebackers, linemen, and a QB and we are the same young, promising team that most of KC has been hoping for for years.
Herm knows how the teach, how to draft. Nobody is prescient, and neither is he. He has made mistakes, but he is the future of this team. The inspiring and motivational leader that a young team needs.
Herm has been willing to adjust his offensive philosophy to fit what works best for his players and his team. We didn’t see infighting, grumbling, or accusations among the players this year, and that is a testament to Herm and the belief he has instilled in his players. He deserves more time in KC, and I hope he gets it.
I like Herm as a person, too, but it’s hard to justify keeping him at this point. What’s especially surprising about KC’s records for defensive futility in terms of pressuring the quarterback is that Herm is a defensive guy. I think Chan Gailey did as good a job as anyone on that staff, working with Thigpen and making the offense respectable.
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Ok, I realize this is a little off topic, but in the poll… how the world is Rickey Henderson NOT getting 100% votes? Seriously. I need to know why some people didn’t vote for him. Considering this, I truly think he will not get 95% of the vote from the actual HOF voters, since I believe the readers here are much more stat savvy than the HOF voters (in general). But com’on, how can 3% justify not voting for him? I can’t think of any justification for it. In fact, he’s one of the few players in this era where you can’t even hold steroids against him!
As for KC, I’d like to see them get Shanahan. I really think he’d make a good fit with returning this franchise to a yearly Super Bowl contender.
Joe, these arew the kinds of posts we LOVE. Great job describing reality, perception, hope, loss, and despair. I agree Herm is great, and I agree he’ll get let go by the new GM. How many times has a new GM kept the incumbent coach/manager? Ever?
Herm reminds me of Pinkel in one way – end quarter/game management (challenges and time management)
I couldn’t believe Pinkel’s challenge at the end of the KU game and couldn’t believe Herm’s challenge on the Bowe catch at the one. Both of them I’m thinking, “What?? WHY?!?!?”
They’re both good men of character. They’re both guys that do more with what they have (Pinkel’s O-Line is horrible, too but isn’t exposed EVERY week…kinda like Herm’s) and the kids/men play hard for them but you gotta set your expectations low – MU was never a top 10 team and the Chiefs were never gonna be Super Bowl contenders even when he led them to the playoffs.
I’m like you, Joe. I like him but I will understand when he’s canned.
How can a man who needs to have an assistant coach employed to manage the clock and timeouts be considered a capable head coach? Edwards needs to accept a defensive coordinator position at some level and leave the head coaching to those who have the mental ability to both coach the game and manage the clock.
Maybe the people who didn’t vote for Rickey Henderson are waiting to make sure he’s really retired.
In 2006 the following defense ranked 32nd in football and gave up 25 points and 370 points per game:
HC: Jeff Fisher
DC: Jim Schwartz
DE: Kyle Vanden Bosch
DE: Antwan Odom
DE: Travis LaBoy
DT: Albert Haynesworth
DT: Tony Brown
DT: Randy Starks
LB: Keith Bulluck
LB: Peter Sirmon
LB: David Thornton
LB: Stephen Tulloch
CB: Cortland Finnegan
CB: Pacman Jones
CB: Eric King
S: Chris Hope
S: Lamont Thompson
S: Vincent Fuller
Almost all these guys are starters or key subs for the Titans or got big money in free agency and are now on winning teams. But that team went 4-12, and it would have been easy for Joe to write the same piece saying you “can’t finish dead last”.
The point is that 1 or 2 players, a whole lot of maturation, and the script switches. It would be a shame if Herm doesn’t get to finsih this job. I see huge improvement coming next year, but all this progress may be thrown away if they bring in a guy like Pioli and coaches with entirely different schemes. See New York, where Mangini threw away John Abraham, Jon Vilma, and Dewayne Robertson.
Other than that – this is the best piece of writing ever on a chronically misperceived coach. He’d get a lot more slack if he talked like Belichick or Mangini.
If Marinelli was made redundant, does that mean the Chiefs have to absorb his coaching staff?
For all of the credit Herm gets as a character guy, he finagled his way out of New York when he still had a year or two left on his contract. As it happens, most fanst wanted him out anyway, so he never took much grief for it, but the circumstances of his leaving NY were largely brought about, as I understand it, by him forcing his way out of town.
Maybe Glenn Dorsey will turn into a perennial All-Pro and I’ll look like a fool yet again, but when I watched him at the LSU-Ohio State National Championship Game last year I thought he was dramatically overrated. I had no real rooting interest in the game (other than sort of wanting to see the Big 10 get their asses run out of the building) and Dorsey was then the top-rated prospect for the draft, so I just watched him on LSU’s defensive snaps. He did nothing that game and was rarely double-teamed. It was a stunning non-effort for a possible #1 pick in a championship game.
I totally agree that KC needs to fire Herm quickly for everyone’s sake. The carousel is moving.
a team with 37-year old Vinny Testaverde at quarterback
I know this was intended as a slight, but that’s actually when Vinny was relatively youthful…
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But I suspect few in Detroit look back with longing to the Monte Clark years.
Um, Joe? I know you are fully cognizant of how woeful the Lions were this year – and, in fact have been for the entirety of the Millen era. Are you kidding?! After 31-84 since 2001, of *course* we long for the Monte Clark years. I think what you mean is that we *shouldn’t* be longing for the Monte Clark years…
…but after what we’ve been through, who knew those would be the glory days? (Either that or the Wayne Fontes* era – actually *those* were the glory days. I rooted for his firing every year, but in the end, he won the one playoff game the Lions have to their credit in my lifetime).
*Interesting Wayne Fontes tidbit: He insisted his last name was pronounced “Fonts”. His brother, who was an assistant DB coach with the team** was Len Fontes. Except that Len Fontes pronounced his name “Fontez”.
**If Rob Parker was around in those days, he might have asked Wayne Fontes if he wished his mother had given birth to a better DB coach…
2008: Rod Marinelli, Lions, 0-16. Made redundant.
I know I keep grousing about this, but I can’t stop thinking about it. I mean, I *knew* the Lions (or, more precisely, William Clay Ford) would pull some stunt that would disappoint us all, and I *still* can’t believe it. After 0-16, and 31-84 since 2001, WCF has apparently decided that the problem was not with the guys who put together the team – the problem was the coach (never mind that he’s gone through 3 other coaches in that time). Hell, don’t get me wrong, Marinelli had to go (*everybody*, right down to the ball boy, has to go), but how does Marinelli become the only fall guy here?
but in the poll… how the world is Rickey Henderson NOT getting 100% votes?
Although Rickey is one of the greatest players of all time, he occasionally believed and or said that he was among the greatest players of all time. And the absence of false modesty must apparently be punished. Some truths must be disavowed.
Joe, Here’s a good article a friend pointed me to that describes what makes a coach good:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20090103_Phil_Sheridan__Eagles__Reid_gets_another_shot_at_genius.html
Must be some Bill Conlin types voting …
[...] You Play To Win The Game [...]
Is Herm really respected by the players? Did we not watch last year’s Hard Knocks? I only watched two episodes, but that was enough:
- Herm got into a petty, absurd fight over room assignments with Jason Dunn.
- He fined late-round pick Tyron Brackenridge for dancing in the locker room… after laughing hysterically at him… and he didn’t fine Pollard for his dance… and the fine was a relatively large % of Tyron’s non-guaranteed contract.
- Herm played a pretty passive role in a management meeting to decide who would start for the Chiefs that year.
- And, I may be off on this, but I have a faint memory of Herm giving some advice to Tony G, and as soon as Herm walked away, Tony looked absolutely disgusted.
But that’s just, you know, what we know happened. I’d much rather go with a few quotes from ‘league sources.’
The Monte Clark case wasn’t bizarre…..you just aren’t from Detroit, which when it comes to NFL football, is Bizzaroworld, so you don’t see how it makes perfect sense. It was the same reason why Matt Millen got to stay on his job as long as he did, and why Darryl Rogers kept his job even after ASKING to be fired. It’s why most of the infrastructure of an 0-16 team was allowed to remain. I love my Lions, but they’re a complete circus under William Clay Ford, and the case of Monte Clark is just another scenic view area on the mountain of incompetance.
I’m pretty sure the Lions could’ve avoided the interceptions record if only they’d played the Jets this year.
I’ve fired many guys I liked. I’ve been fired by guys I liked. It’s a mean nasty world out there. Hermie will be just fine with his big bank account.
I failed to vote for the Rickey and for Blyleven. Didn’t see Rickey on the list, didn’t think long and hard about Bert. I’d add both, upon further review.
I also like Herm a lot. I think he’s a very good evaluator of talent (him or Kuharich) and I think he has the Chiefs on the right path. That said, this year was more painful than I had braced for and I don’t have a lot of faith in him as a game day coach. He’s done the dirty work, however, and I’d like to see him have the chance to finish what he’s started.
Are we sure there is young talent in KC? Herm got rid of all the guys that would challenge his young guys for starting jobs.
Herm has terrible luck with QB injuries because he knows nothing about talent for the offensive line.
Herm was all about I don’t want an offensive system with a name to it. I want my offense to be designed to fit my players. I do however want to play the Tampa 2 defense no matter if the players can play it. If he wants the offense designed for the players why can’t the defense be designed for the players.
I do respect that he actually decided a forward pass isn’t a bad thing and went to the spread offense but his coaching philosophy isn’t great.
An offense should be on the field looking to score everytime they have the ball, not run time off the clock for the defense. A defense should stop the other team’s offense no matter if the offense scored to quickly. TD’s for the offense and 3 and outs or turnovers for the defense.
The main reason Herm needs to go is so this organization has new eyes evaluating players and coaches. If Herm stays some guys that he thinks have talent but don’t might still be playing.
[...] You Play To Win The Game [...]
Edwards is a fraud.
In both NY and KC, he kept trying to hire OL help off the street, and then wonders why his backs and QBs keep getting clobbered. But as to the defense, FA signings, draft picks and big cash abound.Results, well, you can’t have everything. The defensive players get big paychecks on their way to retirement. James Reed(called Tank for reasons that have nothing to do with football) and Ty Law both will add wings to their homes dedicated to this idiot.
I don’t understand the Jared Allen dump job. Yes, he’s a knucklehead. But there’s also undeniable and necessary talent that’s at a premium, and he’s still relatively young. Training Dorsey, an unknown and unproven player, over a known if loopy superstar is a mistake.
Above all, my son’s Pop Warner coach knew on the morning of his first game how the game clock works. Edwards hired Dick Curl to do it, and he still cannot get it right. The man in an amiable dunce. And simply because he spoke to the media doens’t change things.
Suspect that too often press access means good coverage. Think this is such s case, where punches are getting pulled because Edwards habitually returns phone calls most NFL coaches never take.
Edwards is the real deal,which is why Clark is making the only sane move. By not making a knee jerk action-he also is telling his new GM he wants to continue what Herm has started for at least one more year. If it doesn,t work ,Then we get a new head coach. Now go get Matthew Stafford, and lets start our Miami/Baltimore turn -around!!
I am a Jets fan and believed Herm to be a very nice/decent man and a terrible coach during his time there. I think the most damning thing from an evaluation perspective of Herm’s tenure in KC is that he did not seem to learn a single thing from his time in NY. He still has no idea at all regarding time management and other game management basics. While it seems to remain true, and important, that his teams play hard for him, this is only part of the puzzle – this effort rarely translates into wins due, at least in part, to Herm’s inability to manage the game. I think it is telling that we know the thing that is most cited as Herm’s greatest strength – his teams play hard for him – based largely on the fact that his players have not quit during disastrous seasons. A better coach would not have “consistently gets players to play out the string with pride and effort” on his resume.
Isn’t “there’s the rub” from Hamlet?
Herm seems to get all the intangibles right (guys play hard, good with the media, plays the hot hand when he has it), but gets the fundamentals wrong.
He needs to employ a much stronger support staff if he’s ever going to be successful.
I have to agree with SAM way up at the top of the comments section: Herm, as Poz noted, inherited a HORRIBLE mess with no way TO go but down. We all knew the only thing left was to blow it up and start over, and that’s what they did, for better or worse (for the better, I believe). From other accounts, Herm was fighting with Old King Carl regarding draft choices vs rejected veterans, and thank goodness we have the draftees. Right now this team has a lot of youth and yes, they made youthful errors, but you also have to look at the promise of ability, and ability there is. W/L column aside, I think you can split this season in half and clearly see progress in the second half (when Thigpen took over). Credit Gailey for the new scheme, but credit Herm for going along with it.
I see a strong secondary already in place. I see promise in the offense, and Albert on the O-Line looks like the best draft choice KC has made in ages. I see improvement the last half of the season, players working hard and getting better, even as they lose games. Sure, they make mistakes, they even invent new ones every week, but that’s the kind of experience that pays off in the end (see post by Titans fan Zouk above).
Here’s the thing: if you bring in a new coach, he’s going to want to one thing right off the bat, namely … blow it up and start all over again. We already have a foundation in place, let’s stay calm and cool and get the other building blocks needed that this team needs (D-Line, LB, O-Line), cut out the remaining cancerous parts (LJ must go!) and continue moving upward. Herm has the guys playing hard and even believing in themselves. Even TonyG believes, and considering how badly he wanted out at the midway point, I think that in itself speaks volumes.
Keep Herm.
As a Jet fan, I saw Herm in action for 5 seasons, during which time the Jets were a solid, competitive team.
Herm is a great motivator, and his guys always played hard. They were rarely penalized, didn’t turn the ball over much, and generally had good special teams.
Herm’s “strategy” was good: open it up early, get the lead, and then protect that lead. And with good defenses, a solid O-line, and an all-time clock-killing RB in Curtis Martin, it worked well.
That said, Herm was, and is, an abysmal game coach. If the Jets fell behind or found themselves in a close game, you could count on dubious play-calling, and inexplicable clock-management. That 2004 playoff game against the Steelers still pains me.
On Hard Knocks a few years back, I recall Peterson making the argument, during a debate about whether to start the veteran or the rookie at QB, that KC fans would never stand for the kind of losing that comes with blowing up the team like Edwards wanted to do. It turns out Carl was right and the “youth movement” will end up costing both him and Edwards their jobs. This risk avoidance is why KC and many other NFL cities field so-so mediocre football teams year after year and seem to be working to 20 year rebuilding plans.
I can’t say I’m surprised by the reaction of the fan base or the KC media to this season’s results, but I am disappointed. I know everyone got all hot and bothered by last year’s fantastic draft and 2-14 was on the low end of my expectations, but the high end was only 5-11 and I can’t see how expectations for the future should vary drastically based on any of those possible records. How many games do you think the Chiefs would have needed to win this year to justify Peterson/Edwards’ retention? 3-13? 4-12? 5-11? 6-10? Is there really that much difference between any of those results (other than a lower draft choice)?
The argument “you are what your record says you are” is all fine and dandy if you’re only interested in past performance, i.e. what you ARE. For the Chiefs, 2-14 says they’re a young and inexperienced team that suffered some key injuries, made many many boneheaded rookie mistakes and were not particularly blessed with a surplus of magic. We shouldn’t be interested in what they ARE, but what they might become. I’d much rather have a young 2-14 team, than an old 9-7. I’m not going to do this, but I expect I could construct a hypothetical team of HOF players that using only their statistics from years 1 and 2 that would go 0-16 in whatever statistical season you wanted to drop them. So what exactly is it that a record is supposed to say about future expectations?
I’m not ready to give up on Dorsey or McBride or Tyler (or even Hali for that matter…same for Bowe, how many drops did Tony G have his 1st two seasons?). I can recall quite a few highly touted defensive line draft choices that looked completely overwhelmed their first several seasons (Sapp, Williams, et al.) but eventually found success.
Football is such a TEAM sport that it’s difficult to have much individual success (or gage individual ability) w/o team success. This is particularly true for the defensive front seven (possibly the entire defense) and the offensive line. One or two glaring holes in either makes everyone else’s job much more difficult and will bring down the whole unit, i.e. they’re only as strong as their weakest member. I don’t think I’ll find anyone that would argue that KC has any deficit of glaring holes. So as those holes get filled in by the upcoming draft and each of the young players get a little bit better all of their jobs get a little bit easier and so on and so on and the units as a whole will get much much better.
I think this is one of the reasons we often see meteoric rises from teams that take place over the span of only one or two seasons. I suspect there’s some sort of exponential relationship between…I dunno…average/minimum player quality and team success/ record, so when you’re bad, upgrades don’t help much, but eventually you get past the knee where the curve goes vertical and even a small upgrade makes a big difference.
I was never a big fan of Edwards’ hiring, but I see it the way I would if my hypothetical daughter (the Chiefs) married a deadbeat (Edwards) and bore his children (the “youth movement”). Once it’s done, it’s done and from that point forward you do everything you can to support them and wish for their success. Replacing Edwards basically means starting over and turning the 2-3 year rebuilding project into a 4-6 year rebuilding project without any guarantee that Edwards’ replacement will be any better. I mean…I dunno…would YOU want to coach the Kansas City Chiefs? (especially given the other NFL openings) I didn’t think so…
Sooooo…not that he deserves it, but I’d like to see Edwards get at least one more year.
I don’t know Herm so I can’t say anything about him as a person. As a coach, he’s a moron. He runs things with a philosophy that has been dead in the NFL, or at least the AFC, for many years now.
The terrible situation that we were in in 2005 was that obvious unless you thought that Roaf and Shields would have been a part of the team in 2008, that our team wasn’t full of aging veterans on offense, and that we were under the salary cap by plenty. This is not Herm’s fault but it was that obvious.
In professional sports, a team must show tangible progress over the course of three years or there is a fairly good chance the coaching staff won’t be in place….even with a Hunt as an owner.
I wld simply stress that the Chiefs never demonstated a strong will to win football games in 2008 even as we progressed throughout the season. The team adopted the same “moral victory” mindset of their head coach. This may be the most distrurbing aspect to the disappointing and under-performing year.
In summary, the Chiefs go into 2009 with an unwanted culture of losing and a corresponding lack of toughness and will. Not a way to sell seaon tickets or club level suites or more importantly, convince a new GM that the team is ascending.
> I think now you can argue pretty persuasively that Mangini can’t coach a lick.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2009 Cleveland Browns!
I don’t know whether Herm should be fired or not – but I know that probably EVERY SINGLE PERSON responsible for the draft/scouting department should ALL be fired.
This reminds me of the late 70’s Chiefs – when the organization was too sentimentally attached to the player personnel people who put together the great teams from the mid 60s thru the early 70s. The player personell people of that era got complacent, and in turn they were too attached to the Super Bowl era players, and allowed the team to get old with no real plan for the future in place.
Herm might be a very good defensive coordinator, or a good college coach, where recruiting is hugely important. But he’s a terrible NFL head coach, and that’s the job he’s going to lose. His passive philosophy stinks, he can’t manage a game, and he’s done nothing impressive in his time in KC IMO. I haven’t seen much improvement from most of the young players– Brandon Albert and the young corners have been pretty good from the start, no one else seems to have improved except Thigpen, who was rescued by Gailey’s changing of the offense.
I disagree that his teams “always play hard”– were they playing hard early in the season when they were humiliated almost every week? And later in the year, losing close games does not necessarily mean you are playing hard, especially if you get outplayed in the second half virtually every week of the season.
Do his teams practice hard? Because they looked like they were out of gas late in almost every game. Maybe they weren’t out-conditioned, they were just playing scared to lose, reflecting their coach’s philosophy of football.
The Chiefs desperately need a fresh outlook and philosophy at both the GM and coach levels. They will soon hire a new GM, and if that guy is any good he will not choose Herman as his coach of the future.
“I think now you can argue pretty persuasively that Mangini can’t coach a lick.”
I’m really looking forward to the Mangini era here in Cleveland. (It seems inevitable). It’s going to be great.
If there’s one thing we know it’s that you can’t possibly go wrong with one of Belichek’s assistant coaches.
Excuse me now while I hit myself repeatedly about the head with a frying pan.
“how the world is Rickey Henderson NOT getting 100% votes?”
Dan Plesac, Jesse Orosco, Harold Baines, Greg Vaughn, Jay Bell, Ron Gant, Matt Williams, Mo Vaughn, Dave Parker, and Matt Morris.
That’s ten right there.
Just where in the heck is someone supposed to squeeze in Rickey?
All I know is the man came to the team preaching defense, has used multiple first day draft picks on defense, and has one of the worst defenses in the league. It’s not all Carls fault It’s great that they play hard, but this is the NFL, you have to win.
I agree that Herm came into a horrible situation set up by the incompetance of Vermeil, but he hasn’t done anything to improve the situation. Every set up of the way he has failed the team. Two years ago starting the season with Huard? No attempt to draft or pick anyone else up? Seriously? His OL signings have been mind boggeling. I’m sure he is a nice guy, I don’t personally know him, but he knows very little about being a head coach. He should go back to being a DB coach.
I like your decision to attribute that line to swingers. Good form.
Great piece. Would have loved to see your take/some commentary on Herm’s assistant coaching staffs (both in NY and KC)….as that is a hugely important factor in the success of an NFL team (and often one where the GM can “overly” meddle at times IMHO). Herm’s Jets staffs had some winners on it…..was he able to assemble the same in KC?
Two points: 1) A good coach does not go 2-14, even in a “rebuilding year” and even if they have 100% rookies. 2) Every good team in the NFL is rebuilding to some degree every year.
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Yeah Herm is a nice guy and an ok coach but If you were the new incoming GM would you want your future tied to Herm’s wagon? I agree Clark should step up and dismiss the entire coaching staff and clear the deck for the new GM.
Didn’t Herm need an asst. coach in NY who’s only responsibility was managing the 2-min offense. He still hasn’t figured out game management. Also, he’s now taken over 2 playoff teams and (once fired this off-season) has left the team as one of the worst in the NFL. He’s a motivational speaker with enthusiasm. That’s it. I agree he may be a nice person, but so is Marinelli.
BTW, even though I don’t entirely agree, another great post Posnanski.
Wow. Fifty-one comments on a stellar Edwards piece, and the Snuggie post triples it. I don’t get you, America.