Holy Cow! I am J.P. Ricciardi!
Posted: December 27th, 2008 | Filed under: Pop Culture | 66 Comments »
Every so often on this blog, I like to poke a little fun at Toronto Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi. Well, why not? He made those snide remarks after the Royals beat out the Blue Jays in the Gil Meche bidding. And you will recall last year he made those rather harsh comments on the radio about Adam Dunn not liking baseball*, and then had that goofy aftermath where he claimed to have apologized and Dunn said they never talked and all that.
*I should say in J.P.’s semi-defense that over the last six months, I have heard from numerous — I mean, probably eight or nine — people in baseball who said more or less the same thing about Dunn not liking baseball. Of course, they were smart enough to say it off the record, but the point is that lots of people in the game really believe that Dunn does not have a passion for baseball and, as such, is a bad bet for a long-term contract. I have a longer blog piece working on Dunn and what a fascinating baseball character he really is, but I thought I should mention this here.
Anyway, because of these J.P. quotes and others, and because of various things I’ve heard through the years from people around the Blue Jays organization, I’ve never had an especially high opinion of Ricciardi. I don’t dislike the guy — I’ve never even met him — but I also never got the impression that he’d be a great dinner companion.
Then I saw this little profile of Ricciardi put together by the excellent Jeff D’Alessio at The Sporting News. And I realized something a little bit frightening: We are the same guy.
J.P.’s favorite TV show: M*A*S*H. Check. Might not be my all-time favorite — Seinfeld, the Simpsons, Cheers, several others in contention — but it’s right there.
J.P.’s favorite movies: Godfather I and II. Life is Beautiful. Grease. Check on all three. I probably would not have put Grease on my list for numerous reasons, but I will say that when my daughters saw Grease for the first time I found that I remembered every single word to every single song, including “Beauty School Dropout.â€
J.P. is reading: Mayflower by Nathaniel Philbrick. Just finished it. Excellent.
J.P.’s worst habit: Lack of patience. Check.
J.P.’s talent he’d most like to have: Play piano. Check. I have been taking lessons.
J.P.’s favorite meal: Ravioli and meatballs with antipasto. I’d make it spaghetti, but check.
J.P.’s favorite city to visit: New York. Check.
J.P.’s dream date: Ava Gardner. That’s just an outstanding choice. There are way too many choices: Ava Gardner, Grace Kelly, Donna Reed, Danica McKellar, Mary Tyler Moore, Michelle Pfeiffer, Jenna Fischer, Winona Ryder …
J.P.’s favorite value in others: Loyalty. Tough to argue with that one.
J.P.’s Bucket list: Enjoy as much time with my kids as I can. Check.
What’s on J.P.’s iPod: Springsteen, Queen, Squeeze, Dylan, Sinatra, The Eagles. All on my iPod too, all except the Eagles — cannot tolerate the Eagles though I did once spend more than 200 bucks to go to an Eagles concert. it was to impress a date. Lesson: A relationship has very little chance if it begins with you trying to impress the date by taking her to an Eagles concert. Anyway, we have obviously similar musical tastes as well.
Eerie. That’s all. And now I’m thinking that if I was GM of the Blue Jays, I’d probably have said the same things that J.P. said. And if he was writing this blog, he’d make fun of me for it.
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He’s really not such a bad GM to have. He’s more Sabr/Moneyball than 90% of the GMs (one key example is recognizing the value of defense) and is on the radio every week talking to Jays fans. I’m not sure how many GMs do the radio show, but no previous Jays GM did and it is great fun. The show produces many of the “slips” JP get slagged for which in addition to the Dunn comment include, questioning AJ’s injuries in 2007 and the “it is not lying if we know the truth” comment about BJ Ryan’s injury.
The snide remarks were made in the off season, but it is hard to say JP wasn’t right about Meche, as he clearly chose the softer AL Central over the AL East.
I don’t think that Ricciardi was trying to be snide when he made those remarks… he seems like an honest guy who sincerely cares about baseball and the Blue Jays- and after that interview, he sounds like a cool person too.
If I was General Manager of the Blue Jays, I would have to have some fun too– it’s tough in Canada, if I was a player, that would be my last choice as for where to play.
So I’d guess your opinion of J.P.’s dinner companion qualities has changed, no?
Ethan,
You’d rather play in…well, there’s a bunch of places I could name, but suffice to say I can’t see any reason other than provincialism to put Toronto at the bottom of a list of places to play in the majors. It’s a great city, a fanbase actually does exist, unlike some other places, but it’s possible for a ballplayer to lead a reasonably normal life in Toronto. It’s not a place where ballplayers have generally been desperate to leave-the opposite, if anything.
Put Toronto on the “Would rather live in . . .” list and I’d cast a vote.
I’m impressed that as a married man, you’re OK to have a dream date. I’m not sure that my wife would respond well if I told her that my dream date was anyone but her, even if the subject of the dream were deceased, like Ava Gardener.
Nate
Adam Dunn tidbit: A well known poker forum had some players that played midstakes with Adam about a year ago and said he bummed about 6 cigarettes from him throughout the night.
Side note…how many smokers are there in MLB, besides Jim Leyland?
I think we could all cut a little more slack to people who are candid enough to actually say something honest and interesting once in a while.
Joe mentions that several other people made the same comment about Dunn but were “smart” enough to say it off the record. But maybe it isn’t a question of smart; maybe they just didn’t have the balls to share their unvarnished opinion with the public.
Meh. Not to be a jerk, but aside from the book and Ava Gardner I could see almost anyone in Joe’s and JP’s age range saying any and all of these. Italian food, New York, MASH, Springsteen, Godfather movies, c’mon. These are not original or obscure enough to say you guys are really alike.
Now I want Dunn even more. The Mets haven’t had a smoker since Keith Hernandez (Darryl and Doc don’t count).
I find it hard to be down on J.P. The Dunn fiasco might have been impolitic, but I think it’s probably on the money. More importantly, though, I think if J.P. were the GM of a team NOT in the AL East, he’d get some really lavish press.
I also took a date to an Eagles concert with the hopes of impressing her… yeah, that didn’t work out.
I really think it’s a moot point whether Dunn has a passion for baseball or not. He’s successful, consistent and – as far as I know – doesn’t cause any trouble in the clubhouse. As long as he does his job well, I’d rather he be apathetic than ‘gritty’ and ’scrappy’.
I guess we now know what J.P. stands for, right Joe Posnanski?
JP has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way over the years, because he seems to have a bit of an innate arrogance to him – he’s kind of a my-way-or-the-highway GM by most accounts I’ve seen, and comes across as being the type who thinks he knows more than anyone else (and, in fairness, he certainly DOES know more than most about building a pitching staff, at the very least.)
One of the Toronto newspaper hacks, Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star, positively LOATHES Ricciardi. This is not a strike against Ricciardi in my books – Griffin’s a bit of a blowhard and very much an old-school baseball guy. Most commenters on this blog show more rational and in-depth baseball analysis than that guy.
A lot of Toronto fans are similarly unimpressed with JP, no doubt egged on by the likes of Griffin and disheartened by a 15-year span in which the team hasn’t sniffed the playoffs. But, as MSS said, that’s as much a function of the Jays playing in the AL East as anything else. The guy CAN put together a good team.
If you look at the numbers, last year’s 86-76 Blue Jays should have finished fourth in MLB in wins (behind Boston, the Cubs and the Phillies) based on the pythagorean formula. Digging deeper into second order wins (which considers how many runs a team SHOULD have scored/allowed based on individual stats), they’re third in the AL, and in third order wins (which takes into account strength of schedule), they’re once again fourth in baseball (but third in their division, behind the Red Sox and Rays).
“favorite city to visit: New York. Check.”
Does the heart proud. Hope you had a great vacation here. I think I speak for all nine and a half million of us when I say that, right, guys?
“…The snide remarks were made in the off season, but it is hard to say JP wasn’t right about Meche, as he clearly chose the softer AL Central over the AL East.”
Actually, Meche chose the most money, like 95% of all other ballplayers. The Royals offered an extra million per year and an extra year on the deal, at least according to everything I read at the time. I know it’s hard to believe, but sometimes the Royals actually offer more money than the teams in bigger media markets. Crazy, I know. And since the cost of living in KC is so much lower than just about every place in the AL East, that money goes even further. Seems like a reasonable decision to me.
“…aside from the book and Ava Gardner I could see almost anyone in Joe’s and JP’s age range saying any and all of these. Italian food, New York, MASH, Springsteen, Godfather movies, c’mon. These are not original or obscure enough to say you guys are really alike….”
I’m in their age range, and other than the Godfather movies and Italian food (attributable to the fact that my mom is Italian), my list looks completely different. In fact, Toronto is on my short list of favorite places to visit. That place was a blast, though it’s also fair to say that seeing a game in their dome sucks. All domes suck for baseball, it’s just their nature.
If you look at the numbers, last year’s 86-76 Blue Jays should have finished fourth in MLB in wins (behind Boston, the Cubs and the Phillies) based on the pythagorean formula.
Has anyone ever offered any proof for the Pythagorean formula? Is there any logical reason why it SHOULD be valid? I’ve seen several people show data that was supposed to demonstrate it’s validity, but none that I found at all convincing.
What kind of proof do you mean, Mike? The wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_expectation) on the subject has a link to a paper by a math professor who derives the equation mathematically from some assumptions about the distribution of runs.
But if I recall correctly, Bill James originally was looking for a relationship between runs scored and allowed and a team’s record, which logically should be related. He basically fiddled with formulas until he found one that had a good correlation.
As a Blue Jays fan, I feel I have to make the following point as a rebuttal to all of those who have argued that JP is a good GM stuck in a tough division: David Eckstein.
As any reader of FJM (RIP) will know, Mr. Eckstein is not a good baseball player. He is especially not good if one examines the sort of “advanced” baseball metrics that JP is supposed to favour. So clearly, from the perspective of on-field performance, the signing didn’t make very much sense.
But you might say, as a counter, that Eckstein’s value lies not in his numbers, per se, but in the gritty, sparky way he plays, or as his value as a fan favourite. Unfortunately, the Jays already had a huge fan favourite at short stop, Johnny Mac, who also happens to be one of the best defensive shortstops in the majors. I would have to say, in an unscientific estimate, that Johnny Mac has made a spectacular defensive play in 90% of the Jays games I’ve seen him in over the last two years.
Of course, Johnny Mac can’t hit worth a damn (although I did “call” his only home run this year, in a game in which Jose Vidro and Kenji Jojima also hit home runs…it was a bizarre game), but neither can Eckstein. At least JM provides stellar defense.
Further compounding the nonsensical nature of this move was the fact that earlier in the SAME offseason, JP had actually re-signed JM! So the Blue Jays signed TWO shortstops, neither of whom can hit, one of whom plays legitimately solid D. Which player started? Eck, of course.
In the end, this signing, more than anything else, reveals the fundamental problem with JP. Is he at a budgetary disadvantage? Of course, although the Jays aren’t exactly a small-market team. But he doesn’t spend the money he has very well. Vernon Wells at $20m? The original Burnett signing? Rolen-for-Glaus? Seriously, if one looks at the various Jays lineups over JP’s time with the team, one will be blown away by the number of seriously average, mostly overpaid players the man has brought in.
Thank goodness for Doc Halladay, or things would really look bad.
Great to see your online article featured on the fifth page of SI this week…it almost makes up for the fact that they got the point of your article completely wrong. Thought that was funny.
Mike Bagnall,
Common sense alone would dictate that a team that outscores its opponents by more over the course of a season SHOULD win more games. Obviously, it’s not an exact science – there are plenty of variables, and there will obviously be exceptions, overachievers and underachievers, but on the whole, the better teams will outscore their opponents by more while the worse teams will be outscored by more.
A couple of years ago, the Yankees were hovering around .500 with a great run differential. Some wrote them off, but anyone with a deeper understanding of the numbers could see that they’d improve a lot (and they wound up making the playoffs that year). The Nationals a few years ago were in contention at midseason despite being badly outscored. Remember the Nats’ great playoff push? Of course not – their luck ran out and reality set in.
It just doesn’t seem like something where there could be much confusion or doubt that it’s usually pretty accurate and a much better indicator of future success than the actual standings.
Sabby,
I was also pretty baffled by the Eckstein move. Obviously, he’s a better bat than Johnny Mac, maybe worth an extra few wins over the course of the year, but it wasn’t a very necessary move.
The Burnett move was a can’t-win. JP signed the guy pretty much for the going rate (and he was definitely a better value than a lot of the other pitchers signed in recent years), but people never took to AJ. They complained about his contract for the first two years and wanted to run him out of town, then lamented his opt-out clause and lambasted JP for allowing him that option for much of this past year. That puzzled me – either you’re unhappy that the guy’s here or you’re unhappy that he’s leaving. You can’t have it both ways.
Glaus-for-Rolen didn’t pay off, but one necessitated by the fact that Glaus had basically announced that he couldn’t hold up on the turf in Toronto and wouldn’t return after this year (he has a player option for next year). It was a headache swap, our-problem-for-your-problem, and prevented the Jays from going into this offseason without a third baseman.
The Wells contract already promises to be a huge albatross for the franchise.
I will say this, though: Ricciardi built the best pitching staff in baseball last year (admittedly with Halladay, who was drafted pre-Ricciardi, leading the way). If he had the same aptitude for building a lineup, though, the team would have been right up there in the playoff hunt.
Joe,
I enjoy every and each blog your write. But I’m really really torn about what I’m about to write. I do not have your writing ability or your grasp of the english language and I *do* know I will be ripped by all your loyal fans here who I am one, But, and all i have just posted is not proper english and full of grammar errors but, why in the hell do you not put the same passion in your blogs as you do in your articles for the KC. Star your employer? You give us this, Chiefs have had some not-so-grand finales. I can do a simple 10 second google search and write this article myself.
You can tell my you are busy in New York and come up with a 5000 word blog about something I find really cool and then you give me *Chiefs have had some not-so-grand finales* Duh.
Joe your an awesome writer. I have never read a book you wrote but I enjoy each blog but geesh Joe, has the SI cover gone to your head? This is the best you can come up with for somebody who signs your check? *Chiefs have had some not-so-grand finales*?
I go to work everyday. I work for the company I work for. I give them the best of my ability. I do not spend all my time writing 5000 word posts on who should get in the hall of the fame when it does not include a KC Royal, then turn around and give my employer who pays my check a article entitled *Chiefs have had some not-so-grand finales*.
Joe your an awesome writer. I love your work but geesh dude, write something like you write on here for the people who sign your check and the people who pay the money to sign your check like me who actually go to the newstand and buy a copy of the KC. Star.
I know I will be killed on here but oh well , that is my opinion. I buy the damn paper, I would like to read something like you post on your blog instead of a put together 10 minute article like *Chiefs have had some not-so-grand finales* . Thanks.
why in the hell do you not put the same passion in your blogs as you do in your articles for the KC.
just to let you know, this sentence causes a ton of confusion in the rest of your post.
Mike – At least part of the reason you see a difference in content between Joe’s work here and in The Star is because he has no editor here. He can write whatever he wants on any subject that interests him. Not so at The Star, where Joe has to answer to the people signing those checks and do what they tell him. Yet another reason why newspapers are dying.
@ Another Chris
“He’s really not such a bad GM to have. He’s more Sabr/Moneyball than 90% of the GMs (one key example is recognizing the value of defense)”
I’m sorry but that statement just isn’t true.
The Jays have had a subpar defense since JP took over. He traded Orlando Hudson at a time when the O-Dog was one of the best defensive second basemen in baseball.
He’s signed shortstops like Eckstein and Royce Clayton(??!?!?!?!) despite having Johnny Mac.
The less said about our catching defense the better (Zaun, Molinas etc.)
The only decent defender up the middle is Wells and he is a holdover from the Ash era (as are the other top players, Halladay and Rios)
Worst GM ever.
JP’s been great if you want to finish 3 or 4th in a div.
“… cannot tolerate the Eagles…”
You don’t like my f**king music, get your own f**king cab!”
Can we please please put together an All Doesn’t Like Baseball Team? We’ve got Dunn, J.D. Drew… help me out here folks. Andruw Jones? Miguel Cabrera? I don’t really know, but I bet with our combined mental resources we could do it. Bonus points for finding a second baseman who doesn’t like baseball. It’s hard for me to imagine one of those. Double bonus points for finding a manager.
Positive counterbalance: The Loves Baseball to a Fault Team. I’ll get it started with Eckstein and Rowand. Maybe Utley too.
The beautiful irony is that the Lovers are often overrated, and the Doesn’t Likers are usually really talented (otherwise why would they be playing?).
I’d go with Grace Kelly also. She looked SO GOD in Rear Window!!! I have NO IDEA why Jimmy Stewart was so “stand-offish” for so long…
Schooner,
Hill’s pretty solid up the middle, no? Sure, 2008 was a lost season, but you can’t go blaming his concussion on Ricciardi. There’s also Johnny Mac (whose bat has led to him getting the short end of the stick a few years running), and Overbay and Rolen are both pretty damn good on the infield corners.
It’s pretty harsh to call Ricciardi the “worst GM ever,” though I’ll admit that I’ve grown increasingly disillusioned with a lot of his moves over the past couple of years.
And as for Bob’s comment, I do think the Jays have had plenty of teams during JP’s tenure that would have challenged for titles in one or more other divisions. If you’re going to blame the GM for constantly finishing behind the Yanks and Red Sox, I don’t think you’ll be happy with any Toronto GM for a good, long while.
I nominate Khalil Greene. I am not sure whether he does not like baseball but it certainly appears that way. And for retired players, how about Kevin McReynolds. He looked like he would rather be anywhere but on the baseball field.
Those answers that Riccardi gives are like horoscopes – they’re vague enough that they would apply to anyone. MASH was enormously popular, as was/is Springsteen, The Godfather, spaghetti and meatballs, family time, loyalty and visiting NYC. He basically confirmed that he grew up in the US and is between 15 and 55. In the right mood, all of those answers apply to me, too. Now if he had answered, say, Cop Rock, Megadeath, Pretty Woman, White Castle, napping, a sense of humor, and the moon to those questions… THEN we’d have something.
Justin,
Worst GM ever was a Simpsons-esque rhetorical finish but IMHO he has been a lousy GM.
Hill is a decent hitter but not a noteworthy fielder and Johhny Mac is there by default, not by choice, evidenced by the Eckstein/Clayton signings.
Yes it’s tough to compete in the East but that doesn’t account for the mediocre (at best) draft picks and poor siginings i.e. Eric Hinske.
To top it off, he has a huge ego and is quite disdainful towards the fan base. I’ll be quite happy when he’s scouting for his beloved Sawx by next year.
I don’t think the “they play in the same division as the Red Sox and Yankees” is a valid excuse. The Rays are Exhibit A with that, and given that Toronto’s 2008 payroll was at least double that of the Rays and that they are an established team that plays in a significantly larger market, I don’t see the excuses. It aill starts with with scouting and player development, and going into 2008, Baseball America ranked the Jays 25th in their farm system rankings.
As it’s been well-documented in the above comments, nobody was putting a gun to JP’s head when he signed David Suckstein, drafted Ricky Romero over many better players in 2005, or signing Vernon Wells to a ridiculous extension.
Plus, Keith Law (who ranked Toronto 23rd in regards to their system) doesn’t seem to like JP from his work experience with him, and Keith Law’s my boy.
IIRC Jeff Kent said he didn’t like baseball so there’s your second baseman.
If Ricciardi is such a Moneyball disciple, as everyone claims he is, why does he give a damn about whether Adam Dunn LIKES baseball? The guy hits 40 homers, takes 100 walks, drives in 100 runs. Every year. I don’t care if he passionately HATES baseball as long as he keeps doing that.
He’s a lot better player than many guys who LURRVVEE baseball. Ofcourse, those guys are all unanimously short, and therefore scrappy.
Hi Joe, it’s really interesting to hear that this belief about Dunn “not liking baseball” is pretty widespread– at least in an off-the-record sort of way. There’s been a lot of discussion about that idea, both here in the comments and elsewhere. But when you think about it, it’s a pretty vague criticism. On what is this claim based? Is it because of the way he plays? His attitude? Specific comments he’s made to teammates or others? What does it mean not to like baseball, and how rare is this in the game?
Most importantly, what exactly is it that baseball execs are worried about, given that Dunn has put up consistently impressive statistics throughout his career, what exactly do people fear will happen? Is it that he stops putting effort into the game after signing a large contract? Many players seem to react this way, regardless of how much they “like” baseball. I’m wondering if something in his past behavior has suggested there will be a problem, and why people have honed in on this so intensely.
@Creston
I’m certainly not going to argue that he’s been a pure Moneyball disciple, but the Dunn statements, I don’t think, are quite as black and white as they seem. A little bit of context: when he made them, he was about to fire Gibbons, and maybe had even made the decision by then (statements were post-game on June 18th and Cito was managing June 20th). He was responding to fans who kept prodding him with deals that probably just weren’t going to happen, and in frustration, he said something stupid.
That’s not to excuse him saying it, but my interpretation was that JP probably just spewed out the first negative about Dunn he could think of, because he wanted to shut the caller up.
I guess I just don’t think that we should believe that “he doesn’t like baseball” was JP’s sole reason for not having interest in Dunn.
@Schooner
Wow. Your disillusionment is really clouding things for you, I think. Nobody can say that Ricciardi has been great, but he’s definitely put together some great defensive clubs. I’m not sure how you can say that he hasn’t. And the Hudson trade brought in a “scary bat” (Glaus) that was badly needed at the time. I’m just not sure how you can actually fault him on that move– considering Hill was ready– for not caring enough about defence. And by what measure are you evaluating those catchers? Because I’m guessing it has to do with throwing out base runners, which isn’t nearly as important as it is noticeable, and is as much a factor of the pitching staff as the catcher. They haven’t had GREAT defensive catchers, but “the less said about our catching defense the better”? Just not true.
“I really think it’s a moot point whether Dunn has a passion for baseball or not. He’s successful, consistent…”
Yea, successful as a windmill and consistent in that he strikes out a lot.
Long-time Reds fan (really looking forward to the book) … think the labels on Dunn originated from Reds broadcasters who were always giving him grief for not hitting sacrifice flies, being able to cover a lot of ground in LF, or not slapping one down the 3rd base line against the shift. You know … BASEBALL type things. When you lead the league in pitches per plate appearance every year, you give those guys a lot of time to complain about you.
Dunn was always my favorite: a) because he was one of the few Reds that was actually an above average MLB player, and b) for his call to Marty Brennaman during a rain delay a few years back asking if Marty had his shirt on. He’ll be missed. Willy Taveras has a fighting chance to lead the league in outs, but at least it’ll look like he’s hustling on all those 6-3’s.
Aaron Hill is definitely a noteworthy fielder, whether judging by empirical evidence or pure anecdotal evidence. I’ve watched him in hundreds of games, and he’s great out there. Experts such as Keith Law agree, and the Fielding Bible had him tied for first among second basemen in 2007 (and third from 2006-08, despite missing most of last season). He’s generally considered better than O-Dawg at this stage, as Hudson’s apparently slipped a notch or two (though he could admittedly still rebound, and as someone who likes Hudson, I hope he does.)
No one complained about the Hinske signing when it first went down – Hinkse was coming off a RoY award and appeared to be a long-term solution at third.
As for the draft picks, I won’t deny there were some definite misses. Every team has misses. The Romero pick was an egregious whiff, and that’s exacerbated by the fact that it was apparently JP’s ego that led to that decision being made against the recommendations of several top advisors. But when Ash left the team, his draft picks weren’t exactly considered surefire stars:
Halladay was a promising but unproven pitcher, one season removed from arguably the worst year ever my a major league hurler. Wells had yet to establish himself, Rios was an iffy player in the deep minors (the numbers weren’t there, but he was young for the level, so there was some hope)…he’d also drafted Michael Young, but then dealt him for Esteban Loaiza.
I’d rather see how guys like Snider, Cecil and Arencibia, plus Lind, Purcey, Campbell and others turn out before suggesting that JP’s drafts have been total busts. Baseball isn’t hockey (not suggesting you think it is, but some Toronto fans seem to compare the two a lot), where you draft a dude and he’s ready for prime time in a year or two.
I also agree with the Drunk Jays Fan in that our catcher defense has hardly been a weak spot on the team. We haven’t exactly had Johnny Bench behind the plate, but neither have we been running Piazza-calibre players out there.
Greg–
I know David Cone smoked like a pack and a half a day…havent really heard about anyone else.
Dwight K. Schrute,
I don’t want to take anything away from the Rays. They had some great drafts (aided by a lot of high picks from years of being a laughing stock) and made some shrewd trades. Unless they want to boost payroll massively in a couple of years, though, they have to keep hoping for the same kind of perfect storm they had this year, where it all came together at once.
The Rays still have some young guys in the pipeline, and they were smart enough to sign a lot of their guys long-term, so I’m not saying they’ll be a Florida Marlins-style one-off.
For sustained success, though, give me a $200 million payroll over a team built through the draft any day.
Patrick,
I think Greg meant current players – in the not-too-distant past, I’m sure smoking was far more acceptable. Mark Grace, for instance, was a pretty well-known smoker.
As for the all-doesn’t-like-baseball team, I’d nominate Carl Pavano as the ace of the staff and Felipe Lopez as the shortstop.
If retired players are eligible, somehow Bobby Bonilla strikes me as a good call if we need a disinterested third baseman, and Joe made a pretty good case for Dave Kingman in a previous blog post.
It seems incredible to me that we can even speculate on whether someone we don’t know, have never met and have never spoken to “likes baseball.” We can’t trust the media – who love guys who give them access – to tell us what somebody’s really like.
And what does it mean to “like baseball”? Of all players, I’m sure Mickey Mantle loved baseball. But he repeatedly showed up for games hungover or even drunk. The same goes for many other players who “love” their sport but repeatedly engage in self-destructive conduct or conduct detrimental to their teams.
Like many others have pointed out here: Adam Dunn works on his game enough to hit more than 200 home runs and walk more than 500 times in five years. Whether he enjoys the grind or not is irrelevant.
@ Schooner
Actually Hill is regarded as one of the top-fielding 2b in the league.
Riccardi has Bull Durham ‘cocky and arrogant’ part down pat so he needs little practise there. But what he might consider working on is obtaining a little class/style. Long time Jays fans will remeber that Pat Gillicks early Jays got the snot beat out of them on a regular basis but Gillick and Paul Beaston handled it with class. They said things will get better and they did. The fans had there issues but they hung around and were pleased to be associated with winners in the front office if not on the field.
JP might be better suited to watching some old Bond movies rather than the Godfather!
don’t be too surprised. After reading the list it turns out I’m JP Riccardi too. I might swap out Ava Gardner for Audrey Hepburn, and I’m not and Eagles fan either, but everything else lines up.
Matt,
I see the doesn’t-like-baseball-team thing as kind of a tongue-in-cheek lark. Obviously, judgments on whether a player “likes baseball” or not is all based on media speculation and the public perception fueled by that speculation.
Some guys will naturally train longer and harder than others – some, I’m sure, do what they have to as mandated by their teams but don’t put in a ton of extra effort. That’s laziness, but columnists with an axe to grind will often cast other aspersions. Not liking baseball is an easy way for a writer to slag a player, when really it seems like that accusation is leveled at guys who don’t “do the little things” or who have enough skill that it just SEEMS as though they should be better than they are.
Here’s a common sense among some mainstream media and less-insightful fans: Dunn hits 40 home runs a year! Why doesn’t he hit more? Why does he take so many pitches? If he just swung more, why, I’ll bet he could hit 50 a year AND cut down on his strikeouts AND raise his batting average 40 points! But you know what? He doesn’t CARE! He hates baseball! He’s working on a time machine RIGHT NOW so he can go back to the 1800s and assassinate Alexander Cartwright!
To play baseball at a high level requires not just a ton of talent but a hell of a lot of hard work. These guys wouldn’t put in the countless hours for a slim chance of ever making the majors if they didn’t legitimately love the game.
I think we can all agree though, that once we build our all-doesn’t-like-baseball team, we’ll hire on Joe Buck to broadcast the games, right?
I would think that the All Doesn’t Like Baseball Team would have to include the Posnanski favorite of Neifi Perez.
Typical xenophobic american comment “If I was General Manager of the Blue Jays, I would have to have some fun too– it’s tough in Canada, if I was a player, that would be my last choice as for where to play.” Ethan you are ignorant. If Toronto was in the USA it would be one of your top 5 cities. In my opinion it is second only to NYC.
Ricciardi has been a bust. The excuses IE injurie, Canadian dollar, Yankees Red Sox are constant.
If he really knew what he was doing he would be putting a BLOCKBUSTER together right now Halladay for 4 can’t miss prospects. That would get hom over the hump in 2 years and for a long time after that
The All-Hater Team:
C:
1B:
2B: Jeff Kent
SS:
3B: Alex Rodriguez
LF: Adam Dunn
CF: Carlos Beltran
RF: Bobby Abreu
Seeing as there aren’t too many players I know of about whom it’s been said “he doesn’t like baseball” – I think Dunn and Jeff Kent are the only two – I’ve filled in the other positions with players who are supposedly “not clutch” or skating by on talent alone.
Nominations for the empty positions?
I have to agree that Toronto is an unbelievable city. Right up there with Chicago on my “favorite cities to visit” list.
Jim Rice and Wade Boggs always seemed to be in the “Doesn’t Like” camp (at least Boggs with the Sox….said if he ever reached .400 with enough offical AB’s he’d immediately fake a back injury)…..
“Don’t Like Baseball” team? Did the Black Sox like baseball? How about Pete Rose?
The All Doesn’t-Like-Baseball Team:
C:
1B: Adam Dunn
2B: Jeff Kent
3B: Andy LaRoche
SS: Felipe Lopez
OF: Jeremy Hermida
OF: Andruw Jones
OF: JD Drew
DH: Billy Butler
SP: Sidney Ponson
SP: Homer Bailey
SP:
RP: Salomon Torres
How ’bout Michael Barrett for catcher? Rich Hill, Carl Pavano, Kyle Farnsworth…
“Can we please please put together an All Doesn’t Like Baseball Team? We’ve got Dunn, J.D. Drew… help me out here folks. Andruw Jones? Miguel Cabrera?”
Well, when Sox fans turned on Keith Foulke in 2005, some of them made a big deal about some interview where he said he doesn’t like watching baseball. The fans took that to mean that he didn’t like playing baseball, which is something very different, I think. But he could go on the list.
Jose Canseco once got quoted as saying that the problem with the A’s is that they care too much about winning, which should get him on the team.
Jeff Kent at 2B is a good call.
Was it Canseco who said that about the A’s or was it Ruben Sierra?
Picking a manager is the hard one. Hard to get the job unless you show some enthusiasm for the game.
Did someone really suggest Pete Rose for the all-hater team? Because I think Pete had the opposite problem.
Sure did suggest Peter Edward Rose. He treated baseball far more shabbily than the attitude problems cited so far.
Mike Hargrove: Manager, All Doesn’t-Like-Baseball Team
I’m sorry, I didn’t see anything after “Danica McKellar”. Oh Winnie, I miss you so,
Alright team, good job on the assemblage of the Doesn’t Like Baseball squad. We still need a catcher. I feel like Pudge is still hanging on because he wants to be Pudge V.1, but I don’t know if that counts. Michael Barrett is a good nominee. I’ll add Jorge Julio to the bullpen.
Jenna Fischer, great choice.
Random thoughts:
* Am thoroughly impressed and/or surprised with the amount of Blue Jays banter going on here in the comments thread.
* JP does have an aura of arrogance. I’m sure most baseball execs have some arrogance to them, well, we all probably do, but JP just wears his on his sleeve.
* Stoeten – I’m impressed with your language.
* John Halama was notorious for disliking baseball. The guy was good for 3 words after a game. Think he was a NYC boy, too, so the baseball hate is a little more surprising, since when I went to NYC, was amazed at how many Yankees hats I saw.
* Dunn – it’s kind of weird. We want to humanize a lot of the ballplayers and feel like we can sit around and drink beers with them. And I’ve drank with a lot of cats who don’t really like their jobs. But it’s what they do, so they do it. But we also want the best athletes to go all out. We want yin and yang. Cake and digestion.
* Toronto IS a super city. Visit it.
Apparently Erik Bedard would be on the “doesn’t like baseball list” which i think has more to do with him not being cozy with the local sportswriters.