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	<title>Comments on: Oh Rickey you&#8217;re so fine</title>
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		<title>By: Gold</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-86301</link>
		<dc:creator>Gold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-86301</guid>
		<description>Okay, since somebody else went there, my all time team (excluding pitcher) (noting that on different days I’ll change my mind): CF Cobb, 2B Hornsby RF Ruth DH Williams LF Bonds 1B Gehrig SS Wagner 3B Boggs C Piazza, batting in that order. Please note that I don’t necessarily pick some of these players best at that position, but once I’m going down the high OBP high pitch count route pitcher’s arm destroying route, it makes sense not to stop, so Piazza gets in ahead of Bench, Campanella, or Berra; Wagner gets in ahead of Banks, ARod or Ozzie, Bonds gets in ahead of several worthy candidates, Boggs beats out Brett or Schmidt, and so forth. I think my team will substantially outfield the other (nobody is badly out of position) and not be much outhit. Hornsby, career OPS+ 175 plus the rare right handed batter to try and achieve some level of lefty righty balance, bats second. If I drop Bonds (because young Bonds doesn’t make the team) then I go with Mantle in right, Ruth in left, and also get another right handed bat. Before the arguments fly, go to baseball-reference.com (as I did) and look these guys up. I was surprised at just how good Mantle was, so I have to pick him ahead of Musial (and could accept picking him ahead of Bonds). Yeah, Collins is probably a better all around second baseman, but OBP plus power &gt; steals plus defense, and I need the RHB for balance.

Thanks for the great reading, we buy &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goldcoinsgain.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gold&lt;/a&gt; in a recession. I will pass this on to our Ira clients to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, since somebody else went there, my all time team (excluding pitcher) (noting that on different days I’ll change my mind): CF Cobb, 2B Hornsby RF Ruth DH Williams LF Bonds 1B Gehrig SS Wagner 3B Boggs C Piazza, batting in that order. Please note that I don’t necessarily pick some of these players best at that position, but once I’m going down the high OBP high pitch count route pitcher’s arm destroying route, it makes sense not to stop, so Piazza gets in ahead of Bench, Campanella, or Berra; Wagner gets in ahead of Banks, ARod or Ozzie, Bonds gets in ahead of several worthy candidates, Boggs beats out Brett or Schmidt, and so forth. I think my team will substantially outfield the other (nobody is badly out of position) and not be much outhit. Hornsby, career OPS+ 175 plus the rare right handed batter to try and achieve some level of lefty righty balance, bats second. If I drop Bonds (because young Bonds doesn’t make the team) then I go with Mantle in right, Ruth in left, and also get another right handed bat. Before the arguments fly, go to baseball-reference.com (as I did) and look these guys up. I was surprised at just how good Mantle was, so I have to pick him ahead of Musial (and could accept picking him ahead of Bonds). Yeah, Collins is probably a better all around second baseman, but OBP plus power &gt; steals plus defense, and I need the RHB for balance.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great reading, we buy <a href="http://www.goldcoinsgain.com" rel="nofollow">Gold</a> in a recession. I will pass this on to our Ira clients to read.</p>
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		<title>By: Coach Nick</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-50723</link>
		<dc:creator>Coach Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 06:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-50723</guid>
		<description>Tidewater Jackson

Did Rickey really dog it as a Yankee?

According to the always accurate and kind
New York Press, he did.  

What is the history of how this story started?  Had he ever
been accused of dogging it before in his career?  No, he had NOT.

Rickey had come to &quot;Sweet&quot; Lou Piniella complaining of a terrible pain in
his leg, and asked to take some time off so it could heal.  &quot;Sweet Lou&quot;
not known for much compassion basically told Henderson to get his tail
out on the field.  And continued to make him play daily in extreme pain.
&quot;Sweet Lou&quot; also complained to George Steinbrener and the NY press that
that Rickey was &quot;dogging it&quot;.  George decided to go into the locker room
before one of the games and scolded Rickey for dogging it per Piniella&#039;s
tattelng.  Rickey told George he was not dogging it, he was really hurting.
George said to him, lets get the leg checked out and get to the bottom of this.

The results came back that Rickey had severely torn tendon that ran from
the top of his leg to the bottom of his buttock.  The doctor was amazed that
he was able to play on it at all.  George appologized to Rickey, and told him
to take off as much time as needed to heal.  He also told &quot;Sweet Lou&quot; the
results.  &quot;Sweet Lou&quot; never told the press the true story, so the story of
Rickey dogging it stayed attached to his persona.  Steinbrenner did try to
get the NY press to write a retraction, but they never did.

He did play cards while with the Mets, but the story about him dogging it all
came from &quot;Sweet Lou&quot;  who did give a shit about his players.  And was too
chicken shit to tell the press he was wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tidewater Jackson</p>
<p>Did Rickey really dog it as a Yankee?</p>
<p>According to the always accurate and kind<br />
New York Press, he did.  </p>
<p>What is the history of how this story started?  Had he ever<br />
been accused of dogging it before in his career?  No, he had NOT.</p>
<p>Rickey had come to &#8220;Sweet&#8221; Lou Piniella complaining of a terrible pain in<br />
his leg, and asked to take some time off so it could heal.  &#8220;Sweet Lou&#8221;<br />
not known for much compassion basically told Henderson to get his tail<br />
out on the field.  And continued to make him play daily in extreme pain.<br />
&#8220;Sweet Lou&#8221; also complained to George Steinbrener and the NY press that<br />
that Rickey was &#8220;dogging it&#8221;.  George decided to go into the locker room<br />
before one of the games and scolded Rickey for dogging it per Piniella&#8217;s<br />
tattelng.  Rickey told George he was not dogging it, he was really hurting.<br />
George said to him, lets get the leg checked out and get to the bottom of this.</p>
<p>The results came back that Rickey had severely torn tendon that ran from<br />
the top of his leg to the bottom of his buttock.  The doctor was amazed that<br />
he was able to play on it at all.  George appologized to Rickey, and told him<br />
to take off as much time as needed to heal.  He also told &#8220;Sweet Lou&#8221; the<br />
results.  &#8220;Sweet Lou&#8221; never told the press the true story, so the story of<br />
Rickey dogging it stayed attached to his persona.  Steinbrenner did try to<br />
get the NY press to write a retraction, but they never did.</p>
<p>He did play cards while with the Mets, but the story about him dogging it all<br />
came from &#8220;Sweet Lou&#8221;  who did give a shit about his players.  And was too<br />
chicken shit to tell the press he was wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Alphonse Buble</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-47384</link>
		<dc:creator>Alphonse Buble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-47384</guid>
		<description>Given the usual level of numerical literacy on this blog, the percentage numbers on the poll need to be fixed. They are being rounded to the nearest percentage point, which is fine, but they are showing one decimal place always being 0. Which is clearly not correct. So either round them to the nearest decimal place, and don&#039;t show a decimal place, or round them to the nearest tenth of a decimal point and show that. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the usual level of numerical literacy on this blog, the percentage numbers on the poll need to be fixed. They are being rounded to the nearest percentage point, which is fine, but they are showing one decimal place always being 0. Which is clearly not correct. So either round them to the nearest decimal place, and don&#8217;t show a decimal place, or round them to the nearest tenth of a decimal point and show that. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: ArmySoldier</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-45845</link>
		<dc:creator>ArmySoldier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-45845</guid>
		<description>Yes, Rickey Henderson deserves the Hall of Fame.  He has earned it, to say the least.  Still, Henderson had his bad moments - though very few - and he does NOT deserve 100% of the vote.  

Henderson, like many, stayed well past his prime.  He was hanging on LONG after teams, fellow players were telling him to call it a career.  Yes...he could still get the job done when he wanted to.

I still remember, sadly, when his play in the Postseason as a Met was ineffective - he was taken out of the game.  Still, Henderson should have been on the bench and in the dugout cheering on his team.  He ended that year playing chess, checkers or some other board/card game in the clubhouse.  Sorry...he loses a vote or two for that selfishness.

Oh, yeah - all those stolen bases.  How many were just to steal bases?  Joe Morgan wouldn&#039;t have come close in career, but I wonder how many more bases he would have had if he was stealing bases for that feat alone.  Morgan stole bases in meaningful situations...to help the team win.  He would have stolen over 1000 easily if he would have taken the Henderson approach. 

Still, Henderson has EARNED his spot on the Baseball Hall of Fame Roster.  I hope MLB, and the HOF shows forgiveness and kindness and allows Pete Rose to join Henderson, Cobb, Ruth, Schmidt, Bench and the others one day...hopefully before Charlie Hustle dies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Rickey Henderson deserves the Hall of Fame.  He has earned it, to say the least.  Still, Henderson had his bad moments &#8211; though very few &#8211; and he does NOT deserve 100% of the vote.  </p>
<p>Henderson, like many, stayed well past his prime.  He was hanging on LONG after teams, fellow players were telling him to call it a career.  Yes&#8230;he could still get the job done when he wanted to.</p>
<p>I still remember, sadly, when his play in the Postseason as a Met was ineffective &#8211; he was taken out of the game.  Still, Henderson should have been on the bench and in the dugout cheering on his team.  He ended that year playing chess, checkers or some other board/card game in the clubhouse.  Sorry&#8230;he loses a vote or two for that selfishness.</p>
<p>Oh, yeah &#8211; all those stolen bases.  How many were just to steal bases?  Joe Morgan wouldn&#8217;t have come close in career, but I wonder how many more bases he would have had if he was stealing bases for that feat alone.  Morgan stole bases in meaningful situations&#8230;to help the team win.  He would have stolen over 1000 easily if he would have taken the Henderson approach. </p>
<p>Still, Henderson has EARNED his spot on the Baseball Hall of Fame Roster.  I hope MLB, and the HOF shows forgiveness and kindness and allows Pete Rose to join Henderson, Cobb, Ruth, Schmidt, Bench and the others one day&#8230;hopefully before Charlie Hustle dies.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark H</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44528</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44528</guid>
		<description>When even the HOF votes aren&#039;t 100%, it makes me wonder when they do an election re-count and all 100 &quot;missing&quot; ballots were for just the one candidate.  Makes you stop and think just how &quot;missing&quot; those ballots really were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When even the HOF votes aren&#8217;t 100%, it makes me wonder when they do an election re-count and all 100 &#8220;missing&#8221; ballots were for just the one candidate.  Makes you stop and think just how &#8220;missing&#8221; those ballots really were.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorilla Mark</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44520</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorilla Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44520</guid>
		<description>Rickey be Rickey....the great thing about Rickey going in to the HOF will be the acceptance speech.  Might be the only one in history to be given entirely in third person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rickey be Rickey&#8230;.the great thing about Rickey going in to the HOF will be the acceptance speech.  Might be the only one in history to be given entirely in third person.</p>
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		<title>By: John from Concord</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44470</link>
		<dc:creator>John from Concord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44470</guid>
		<description>Joe, you might want to make a note of this: Y-A-S-T-R-Z-E-M-S-K-I.

You ought to do the guy the same honor of using his full name that you gave to everyone else you listed. It&#039;s not really that hard to remember how to spell it out. I learned when I was 6. (Of course that was in 1973 and I grew up in a diehard Sox household, but still. Not that hard, especially for a professional wordsmith.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, you might want to make a note of this: Y-A-S-T-R-Z-E-M-S-K-I.</p>
<p>You ought to do the guy the same honor of using his full name that you gave to everyone else you listed. It&#8217;s not really that hard to remember how to spell it out. I learned when I was 6. (Of course that was in 1973 and I grew up in a diehard Sox household, but still. Not that hard, especially for a professional wordsmith.)</p>
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		<title>By: David in Toledo</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44467</link>
		<dc:creator>David in Toledo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44467</guid>
		<description>MR, a small history note:  Jackie Robinson retired before Williams and Musial did.  But as to the top 10 position players more than half of whose careers came after 1958?  Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Bonds, Frank Robinson, probably Morgan and Bench (9/9/09), perhaps Rose (9/9/09).  Griffey Jr. before his injuries.  Then there are those still playing:  A-Rod, Pujols, maybe someone else.  IMO, if Rickey had been one of the top ten, managements wouldn&#039;t have allowed him to be such a vagabond.  (Recommendation:  see p. 656 of James&#039;s Win Shares.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MR, a small history note:  Jackie Robinson retired before Williams and Musial did.  But as to the top 10 position players more than half of whose careers came after 1958?  Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Bonds, Frank Robinson, probably Morgan and Bench (9/9/09), perhaps Rose (9/9/09).  Griffey Jr. before his injuries.  Then there are those still playing:  A-Rod, Pujols, maybe someone else.  IMO, if Rickey had been one of the top ten, managements wouldn&#8217;t have allowed him to be such a vagabond.  (Recommendation:  see p. 656 of James&#8217;s Win Shares.)</p>
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		<title>By: MR</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44437</link>
		<dc:creator>MR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44437</guid>
		<description>There are a zillion ways to evaluate baseball players - so while it strains credulity that someone would leave a player like Rickey (or Seaver or Aaron or Ruth or ....) of their ballot, the mere fact that some voters have inexplicably chosen to do so invalidates any argument that relies on percentage of HoF vote as a measure of a player&#039;s greatness.  It should not even be part of the discussion - either someone is in the Hall of Fame or not (or alternatively - should be in/should not be in - which is much more fun).  

We should be (and are) having discussions like so many of the good posts above such as whether Jim Rice was one of the most feared hitters of the era or were his stats inflated by Fenway and where does Rickey Henderson fit in among the greatest players of all-time, rather than wasting mental energy on whether Player A is better than Player B because they got a higher percentage of the BBWAA HoF vote or whether so-and-so should be a unanimous choice.

Regarding Rickey&#039;s stature among all-time greats, I postulate that he is one of the top 5 players of the last 50 or so years (i.e post-Williams/Musial/Dimaggio era).  Using Joe&#039;s &quot;Willie Mays HoFers&quot;, of those non-pitchers who began their careers after 1950 (Murray; McCovey; Carew; Morgan; Jackie Robinson; Ripken; Ozzie Smith; Banks; Yount; Brett; Schmidt; Boggs; Brooks Robinson; Aaron; Gwynn; Jackson; Clemente; Frank Robinson; Kaline; Winfield; Mays; Mantle; Puckett; Yastrzemski; Stargell; Brock; Bench; Molitor) and other HoF eligibles, who is &quot;greater than&quot; or &quot;as great as&quot; Rickey - Aaron and Mays, for sure; Mantle, Clemente - probably; others in the discussion - Morgan? Ripken? What if we include active players whose careers are largely complete - Griffey? Bonds (who opens a host of other issues)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a zillion ways to evaluate baseball players &#8211; so while it strains credulity that someone would leave a player like Rickey (or Seaver or Aaron or Ruth or &#8230;.) of their ballot, the mere fact that some voters have inexplicably chosen to do so invalidates any argument that relies on percentage of HoF vote as a measure of a player&#8217;s greatness.  It should not even be part of the discussion &#8211; either someone is in the Hall of Fame or not (or alternatively &#8211; should be in/should not be in &#8211; which is much more fun).  </p>
<p>We should be (and are) having discussions like so many of the good posts above such as whether Jim Rice was one of the most feared hitters of the era or were his stats inflated by Fenway and where does Rickey Henderson fit in among the greatest players of all-time, rather than wasting mental energy on whether Player A is better than Player B because they got a higher percentage of the BBWAA HoF vote or whether so-and-so should be a unanimous choice.</p>
<p>Regarding Rickey&#8217;s stature among all-time greats, I postulate that he is one of the top 5 players of the last 50 or so years (i.e post-Williams/Musial/Dimaggio era).  Using Joe&#8217;s &#8220;Willie Mays HoFers&#8221;, of those non-pitchers who began their careers after 1950 (Murray; McCovey; Carew; Morgan; Jackie Robinson; Ripken; Ozzie Smith; Banks; Yount; Brett; Schmidt; Boggs; Brooks Robinson; Aaron; Gwynn; Jackson; Clemente; Frank Robinson; Kaline; Winfield; Mays; Mantle; Puckett; Yastrzemski; Stargell; Brock; Bench; Molitor) and other HoF eligibles, who is &#8220;greater than&#8221; or &#8220;as great as&#8221; Rickey &#8211; Aaron and Mays, for sure; Mantle, Clemente &#8211; probably; others in the discussion &#8211; Morgan? Ripken? What if we include active players whose careers are largely complete &#8211; Griffey? Bonds (who opens a host of other issues)?</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44436</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/09/oh-rickey-youre-so-fine/#comment-44436</guid>
		<description>RICE OVER RICKEY</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RICE OVER RICKEY</p>
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