<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: A Hall of Fame Manifesto</title>
	<atom:link href="http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/</link>
	<description>Curiously Long Posts</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:53:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Baby name meaning and origin for Appling - baby boy name Appling</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-56400</link>
		<dc:creator>Baby name meaning and origin for Appling - baby boy name Appling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 04:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-56400</guid>
		<description>[...] A Hall of Fame Manifesto &quot; Joe Posnanski [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Hall of Fame Manifesto &#8221; Joe Posnanski [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-52658</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 02:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-52658</guid>
		<description>Joe, while I can agree with a number of your ideas, there are a few things that bother me, and that was the way you dismissed HoFers of which you know little.

Arthur &quot;Candy&quot; Cummings is usually cited as one of the worst choices for the Hall, voted in solely on the legend that he invented the curve ball.  However, he actually was a pretty good pitcher in the amateur era and in the professional National Association, which was the major league before the National League began.  His lifetime record was actually 145-94, not bad for his day.  I do not argue that he was a legitimate Hall of Famer, but he was a bit more than your telling.  By the way, that good year he had was 1875, NOT 1865.  His 35 wins were third in the league, and Dick McBride was a pretty fair player in his day as well.  I would argue that the fact that you personally have not heard of someone from the previous century means little to his worthiness for the Hall of Fame.

And how many &quot;great Turkey Stearnes stories&quot; do you know?  You must know a few, as Stearnes played his last two seasons (1939 and &#039;40) as a teammate of Buck O&#039;Neil.

The truth is that Stearnes was an odd choice for you to use as an example of your &quot;we don&#039;t have enough information&quot; statement.

Stearnes his .345 for his 18-year Negro Leagues career, among the all-time leaders, along with 183 home runs, an impressive amount given the short seasons of the Negro Leagues and also among the all-time leaders (well, there is that one guy, catcher named Gibson); he led the Negro National League four times in HR and once in BA.  His 105 lifetime triples is a fairly impressive number by itself; even ignoring the short seasons, it would put him among major league leaders of the period.

And there really aren&#039;t all that many great stories about Turkey Stearnes.  He was a shy, taciturn man who rarely spoke on or off the field; he was better known for talking to his bats and himself than to his teammates.

Negro Leagues researchers are continuing to add to the database of what we know about that time, and are working toward a better understanding of how those numbers translate into a major league equivalency.  I think your casual dismissal of the statistical base of knowledge of the Negro Leagues does an injustice to that work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, while I can agree with a number of your ideas, there are a few things that bother me, and that was the way you dismissed HoFers of which you know little.</p>
<p>Arthur &#8220;Candy&#8221; Cummings is usually cited as one of the worst choices for the Hall, voted in solely on the legend that he invented the curve ball.  However, he actually was a pretty good pitcher in the amateur era and in the professional National Association, which was the major league before the National League began.  His lifetime record was actually 145-94, not bad for his day.  I do not argue that he was a legitimate Hall of Famer, but he was a bit more than your telling.  By the way, that good year he had was 1875, NOT 1865.  His 35 wins were third in the league, and Dick McBride was a pretty fair player in his day as well.  I would argue that the fact that you personally have not heard of someone from the previous century means little to his worthiness for the Hall of Fame.</p>
<p>And how many &#8220;great Turkey Stearnes stories&#8221; do you know?  You must know a few, as Stearnes played his last two seasons (1939 and &#8216;40) as a teammate of Buck O&#8217;Neil.</p>
<p>The truth is that Stearnes was an odd choice for you to use as an example of your &#8220;we don&#8217;t have enough information&#8221; statement.</p>
<p>Stearnes his .345 for his 18-year Negro Leagues career, among the all-time leaders, along with 183 home runs, an impressive amount given the short seasons of the Negro Leagues and also among the all-time leaders (well, there is that one guy, catcher named Gibson); he led the Negro National League four times in HR and once in BA.  His 105 lifetime triples is a fairly impressive number by itself; even ignoring the short seasons, it would put him among major league leaders of the period.</p>
<p>And there really aren&#8217;t all that many great stories about Turkey Stearnes.  He was a shy, taciturn man who rarely spoke on or off the field; he was better known for talking to his bats and himself than to his teammates.</p>
<p>Negro Leagues researchers are continuing to add to the database of what we know about that time, and are working toward a better understanding of how those numbers translate into a major league equivalency.  I think your casual dismissal of the statistical base of knowledge of the Negro Leagues does an injustice to that work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Q.</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-46209</link>
		<dc:creator>John Q.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-46209</guid>
		<description>Excellent Post.

Should be required reading for every HOF voter.

It&#039;s amzing to me just how ingorant most HOF voters are about the actually membership of the HOF.

How is Bowie Kuhn in the HOF and Alan Trammell, Ron Santo, Tim Raines, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, and Bert Blyleven out??

Kuhn&#039;s biggest accomplishment was the introduction of the &quot;SANS-A-Belt&quot; uniform pant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent Post.</p>
<p>Should be required reading for every HOF voter.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amzing to me just how ingorant most HOF voters are about the actually membership of the HOF.</p>
<p>How is Bowie Kuhn in the HOF and Alan Trammell, Ron Santo, Tim Raines, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, and Bert Blyleven out??</p>
<p>Kuhn&#8217;s biggest accomplishment was the introduction of the &#8220;SANS-A-Belt&#8221; uniform pant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: On Fielding &#124; Why did salaries increase so slowly last year? &#124; So whoâ€™s in the Hall? &#124; The baseball bear market &#171; hardball times</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-44975</link>
		<dc:creator>On Fielding &#124; Why did salaries increase so slowly last year? &#124; So whoâ€™s in the Hall? &#124; The baseball bear market &#171; hardball times</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-44975</guid>
		<description>[...] by Dave Studeman Joe Posnanski just received his Hall of Fame ballot, and more than 4,000 words poured out of his febrile mind. If you ever wanted to know how every single Hall member got there, read this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by Dave Studeman Joe Posnanski just received his Hall of Fame ballot, and more than 4,000 words poured out of his febrile mind. If you ever wanted to know how every single Hall member got there, read this [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jodoz</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-44426</link>
		<dc:creator>jodoz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-44426</guid>
		<description>wonderful piece

mays best ever at single position

ruth best ever.....as everyday player AND ten-year-2.28 era pitcher

(Dihigo stats might have challenged in a more perfect world)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wonderful piece</p>
<p>mays best ever at single position</p>
<p>ruth best ever&#8230;..as everyday player AND ten-year-2.28 era pitcher</p>
<p>(Dihigo stats might have challenged in a more perfect world)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Creston</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43996</link>
		<dc:creator>Creston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43996</guid>
		<description>This is my favorite post ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my favorite post ever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43980</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43980</guid>
		<description>Not sure how I&#039;ve never been aware of this before, but I was astonished to see that it took the voters 13 years to vote in Ralph Kiner.  I know he had a fairly short career, but through the late &#039;40s and early &#039;50s he was just plain the best hitter in the NL.  Led the league in OPS+ in &#039;47, &#039;49 and &#039;51, drew a ton of walks (more often than he struck out, even as a power hitter), and led the NL in home runs (or tied for the lead) SEVEN YEARS IN A ROW!  I don&#039;t generally put a lot of stock in &quot;he&#039;s the only one ever to do such-and-such&quot; (because it leads us to silly results like Jimmy Rollins being NL MVP) but Kiner is the only player ever to do that.  Not Schmidt, not Junior Griffey, not A-Rod, not Killebrew, not the Babe.  Ralph Kiner.

Did the fact that the Pirates were generally not very good (&quot;We finished last with you, we can finish last without you&quot; is one of my favorite baseball quotes) have something to do with it?  Was it the short career?  Was he a bad fielder?  Was he perceived as disagreeable before he became a beloved broadcaster?  Because, I mean, I can understand maybe not thinking of him as a first-ballot guy (the AL was a better league during Kiner&#039;s career, winning seven World Series in a row from 1947 to 1953, which coincided exactly with Kiner&#039;s prime, so maybe the league lead in HR didn&#039;t carry much weight, though in six of those seasons he led the majors in HR), but...  thirteen years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure how I&#8217;ve never been aware of this before, but I was astonished to see that it took the voters 13 years to vote in Ralph Kiner.  I know he had a fairly short career, but through the late &#8217;40s and early &#8217;50s he was just plain the best hitter in the NL.  Led the league in OPS+ in &#8216;47, &#8216;49 and &#8216;51, drew a ton of walks (more often than he struck out, even as a power hitter), and led the NL in home runs (or tied for the lead) SEVEN YEARS IN A ROW!  I don&#8217;t generally put a lot of stock in &#8220;he&#8217;s the only one ever to do such-and-such&#8221; (because it leads us to silly results like Jimmy Rollins being NL MVP) but Kiner is the only player ever to do that.  Not Schmidt, not Junior Griffey, not A-Rod, not Killebrew, not the Babe.  Ralph Kiner.</p>
<p>Did the fact that the Pirates were generally not very good (&#8220;We finished last with you, we can finish last without you&#8221; is one of my favorite baseball quotes) have something to do with it?  Was it the short career?  Was he a bad fielder?  Was he perceived as disagreeable before he became a beloved broadcaster?  Because, I mean, I can understand maybe not thinking of him as a first-ballot guy (the AL was a better league during Kiner&#8217;s career, winning seven World Series in a row from 1947 to 1953, which coincided exactly with Kiner&#8217;s prime, so maybe the league lead in HR didn&#8217;t carry much weight, though in six of those seasons he led the majors in HR), but&#8230;  thirteen years?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: darkesmoke</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43748</link>
		<dc:creator>darkesmoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43748</guid>
		<description>I came here just to comment on the fact that Arky Vaughan did not miss time to WWII, but due to clashing with Leo Durocher.  I&#039;m glad someone else caught it.

Also, Stan Coveleski is ranked in Bill James&#039; abstract, at 58, which I actually doesn&#039;t do justice to Coveleski.  He finished with a 127 ERA+ in just over 3000 IP.  He also twice led the league in ERA+, and those weren&#039;t even his peak ERA+ seasons.  I&#039;d probably bump him up 15 places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came here just to comment on the fact that Arky Vaughan did not miss time to WWII, but due to clashing with Leo Durocher.  I&#8217;m glad someone else caught it.</p>
<p>Also, Stan Coveleski is ranked in Bill James&#8217; abstract, at 58, which I actually doesn&#8217;t do justice to Coveleski.  He finished with a 127 ERA+ in just over 3000 IP.  He also twice led the league in ERA+, and those weren&#8217;t even his peak ERA+ seasons.  I&#8217;d probably bump him up 15 places.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: KHAZAD</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43657</link>
		<dc:creator>KHAZAD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 11:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43657</guid>
		<description>&quot;...there are 8 umpires in the hall of fame and not one of them umpired a game after 1978.&quot;  Isn&#039;t that about the time that ESPN started to take off, and TV started moving from seeing your team once a week at the very most (if you lived in New York) towards the way it is now?  Umpire&#039;s mistakes are now analyzed to death-whereas before, they built a reputation within the game. Once you had the rep, you could do no wrong.
Joe, I would like to know the highest rankings of those who are not in the Hall. (i.e. Where is Blyleven ranked etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;there are 8 umpires in the hall of fame and not one of them umpired a game after 1978.&#8221;  Isn&#8217;t that about the time that ESPN started to take off, and TV started moving from seeing your team once a week at the very most (if you lived in New York) towards the way it is now?  Umpire&#8217;s mistakes are now analyzed to death-whereas before, they built a reputation within the game. Once you had the rep, you could do no wrong.<br />
Joe, I would like to know the highest rankings of those who are not in the Hall. (i.e. Where is Blyleven ranked etc.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cd</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43472</link>
		<dc:creator>cd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/12/04/a-hall-of-fame-manifesto/#comment-43472</guid>
		<description>Bull e Vard  I agree Quiz deserves that honor he was money for years and a class act.

How about creating a great moments category to the hof. many team hof and collegate hof have the category. therefore great hall of fame moments could be offically recognzed without a player being inducted. ie Larsons perfect game ...... joe Carters walk of world series winner.........kirk gibson ditto .............buckner blunder.......... bobby thompson shot heard around the world.........etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bull e Vard  I agree Quiz deserves that honor he was money for years and a class act.</p>
<p>How about creating a great moments category to the hof. many team hof and collegate hof have the category. therefore great hall of fame moments could be offically recognzed without a player being inducted. ie Larsons perfect game &#8230;&#8230; joe Carters walk of world series winner&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;kirk gibson ditto &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.buckner blunder&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. bobby thompson shot heard around the world&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- WP Super Cache is installed but broken. The path to wp-cache-phase1.php in wp-content/advanced-cache.php must be fixed! -->