Mistakes (with addendum)
Posted: November 23rd, 2008 | Filed under: Media | 124 Comments »
It’s time for one of those personal posts again. I guess we all have our sensitivities. You might know that this blog has now been up for a little more than a year, and my quick estimate is that I’ve written about 500,000 words here. That’s five or six good-sized books. Whew. That’s a lot of words. That’s a LOT of words. That’s like a half a Bill Clinton biography.
All the while, it has been fun and obsessive and, as you know, I have been paid 0.00 cents per word so financially it has been a real boon for me.
And I have really enjoyed the comments, the kind words, the insults, the gags, disagreements, the sense of community here … the brilliant reader comments on this site are, to me, the best part of the whole experience. And, believe me or not, I don’t mind being called an idiot, don’t mind when people rip the opinions, don’t mind being proven totally wrong and being forced to eat crow. I find it all to be fun. I never really understood sportswriters with thin skin.
But in the end, we all have our weak spots. And there is one thing lately that has bothered me — I wasn’t going to bring it up, but it has happened often enough the last few weeks that I guess I would be dishonest if I did not.
See, I kind of thought there was a blog agreement … I will post all sorts of stuff, and it will be raw, and many will miss, and there will be typos and mathematical quirks, and Lord knows what else. And together we work through those. You will point them out, I’ll fix them, and we’ll get it right in the end. One of my favorite experiences with this blog was with my Stan Musial post — the original lead story in that post was one I had researched through various books and magazine articles about Musial. But several readers pointed out that the story could not have happened quite the way it was written. So I exhaustively researched Musial’s career and found the real story and rewrote the post to make it accurate (and tell a Musial story that had not often been told). I loved doing that that. All in this together. That’s been the joy of all this for me.
Lately, I have noticed quite a few readers sort of gleefully pointing out the typos, the errors, the mistakes here in some sort of gotcha thing. I guess that’s the price — this blog’s popularity has multiplied, I guess, because of countless links and Sports Illustrated and, well, whatever else — and that’s cool. I mistype 1996 instead of 2006, someone makes a smart-remark about it, I fix it, hey, that’s still fun. That’s not the annoying part.
No, the annoying part is that often, very often lately it seems, the gotcha police are out on mistakes that ARE NOT MISTAKES.
Yeah, I had to go all-caps on that. Because that REALLY bugs me. I don’t get bugged by much — I don’t like people who cut in line, I don’t like bullies, I don’t like people who arrogantly tell you something is wrong when it isn’t. I STILL remember someone a few years ago sending a three-page email ripping me because Satchel Paige is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame. It would be difficult to recreate the exact reason why he was ripping me — I think it was because I was pushing for Buck O’Neil and he was saying that it would be a disgrace for Buck to be into the Hall when Satchel Page is not — but whatever the reason, it was an unbelievably nasty and overbearing letter tearing me to shreds because Satchel Paige is not in the Hall of Fame.
Only, of course, Satchel Paige is in the Hall of Fame.
Stuff like that bugs me way more than it should. I guess that’s the hole in my thick skin. I got a nasty email from someone pointing out that Springsteen did his famous Vietnam and Dad lead-in to “War†and not to “The River†— “Oh yeah, you’re some Springsteen fan,†the email said. And this wasn’t like a couple of the comments suggesting the same thing, no this guy was ARROGANT about it, he was mocking me about it. And, of course, the emailer was dead wrong. Springsteen did it before The River — the great harmonica lead-in playing just 12 beats after the end of the story. That email bugged the heck out of me.
Saturday night, there was a comment written by Anonymous that said I had a terrible week with errors — I don’t think you need to be Anonymous here, buddy — and this is what he said.
1. I got Mike Mussina’s number of career win shares wrong. I wrote 270. THT has 274.
– Only this isn’t wrong. I used Bill James as my career Win Share source since he invented Win Shares. And he has Mussina with 270 career Win Shares.
2. I got Billy Butler’s age wrong. I wrote that he was 23. He’s actually 22.
– Only, I didn’t get that wrong either. In the context I was writing, I was referring to a potential trade and, as such, referring to Butler’s age next baseball season since nobody really cares how old he is in the off-season. He turns 23 in April.
3. I misspelled Vic Davalillo in my 3,000-plus word blog post on baseball cards.
– It is true. I mistyped it so it was Vic Vavalillo instead. I then fixed it. I find it hard to believe there aren’t 25 other misspellings in that post he could have griped about.
It seems like lately there have been any number of these sorts of comments and emails. I suppose that’s the price of this blog moving beyond our fun little group and on to a bigger stage. I guess I just find it annoying to think there are people who read this blog HOPING to find mistakes — hoping so hard that, often enough, they rush to snarkily point out things that are NOT mistakes at all. Maybe that’s just the way of the world. And I guess I should just tell those readers: Keep on reading. There will be plenty of real mistakes for you to rip on later.
Addendum: I have read the comments — thank you so much for the kind words — but I’m not sure I made myself as clear as I wanted: I do NOT want people to stop correcting this blog. I want those corrections. I appreciate those corrections. I NEED those corrections. I saw a couple of people apologizing for correcting a finer point — hey, don’t apologize. Thank you. If you see a typo, if you see an error, if you see whatever, please let me know so we can get it fixed. And I appreciate grammar suggestions too. Like i say, I think we’re all in this crazy blog business together.
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YOU SPELLED MIZTAKES WRONG! YES YOU DID!
I hope you can learn to overlook these people, Joe. The internet is populated by all sorts of creatures… They’re not worth your worry or time.
Nice going, “Joe the Sportswriter.” You spelled Vic Janowicz wrong twice in this post. And Blil clinton doesn’t even have a biograhpy.
The all-knowing anonymous internet blowhard is legion. Take solace, Joe, in the fact that you’re not alone. In your absence these same people would be making obnoxious comments on some other blog.
To paraphrase an old call-in radio saying, if you let anybody post, anybody will. There are people out there cheering on suicides. I don’t say that to marginalize your frustration, Joe — just pointing out the relative fruitlessness of appeals to civility in an open and anonymous forum.
Time to say the serenity prayer!
Love the blog!
People who point out silly typos and things of that nature are just excited that they get to “contribute”. Their happiness in pointing out your mistakes is inversely proportional to the amount they contribute to intelligent discourse.
Hey Joe, I commented the 1996 and 2006 typo yesterday because I thought it was a funny little typo. It was supposed to be in good fun, and I certainly didn’t mean to get under your skin about it. My apologies, Joe. Keep up the good work.
Joe – This is almost a weightless platitude, but keep on writing for us. Don’t let the knuckleheads bring you down.
Haha, welcome to Internet 101, Joe! Today’s lesson is entitled “What Not to Write on the Internet!”
By merely writing this article and directly addressing the people who irk you, I can guarantee these folks will redouble their efforts and expend even more energy pointing out your “mistakes.” You see, the internet is not about rational, intelligent discourse between functional human beings. The internet is about showing how much more intelligent you are than every single other human being in the world, even if you are incorrect. The internet is about arguing and bickering for the sake of arguing and bickering.
Your update today will simply add a few more layers and speed to the avalanche of stupidity already heading down your hill. There is no way to combat trolls on the internet except to simply ignore them. You’d better get used to feedback from people convinced they’re a million times smarter than you could possibly ever be, as the internet is crammed full of self-described “experts” who will always know more than you could ever hope to.
Jim (I refuse to call you “Joe” when I know your real name is Jim) -
You claim you have a thick skin, but you’re WRONG!!!! (Hahahahahah! You think you’re so smart). But I know from scientific research that your skin thickness index (STI) is only 4.93, while everyone knows that an STI under 5.50 is “Thin skinned.” Hahahahaha, you’re WRONG!!!!
Meanwhile, your argument that your mistakes were not mistakes is, in itself, a mistake. Hahahahahahaha, you’re so WRONG!!!! You say that you didn’t make a mistake, but any moron knows, if he checks the stats at http://www.youresowrong.com, that Jim Podsednik is WRONG about 16.94% of the things he says.
(See, I also know your last name isn’t really Poznanski. And before you say what I know you’re gonna say, my spelling is CORRECT. Even if your name was Poznanski, it’d be spelled with a “Z” not an “S.” You’re so WRONG!!!!! Hahahahahahaha, you’re wrong.)
16.94%!!! Since par wrongness (PW) is no higher than 12.5%, you’re therefore WRONG!!!!!! Hahahahahahaha, you’re so wrong!!!
And finally, you seem to suggest that I’m gleefully looking for and noting all your wrongheaded wrongness. WRONG!!!!! (Hahahahahaha, you’re so wrong even when you suggest that it’s I who is wrong). I’m not gleeful, I’m merely concerned.
You don’t even know the difference between concern and wrongness. You’re wrong so often you’re blinded by your own wrongness!!!! You’re just permanently WRONG!!!!! Hahahahahahaha, you’re always wrong!!!!
Joe, keep on doing what you’re doing. And you know what, you SHOULD throw in an intentional mistake once in a while just to mess with these sorts. That’d be fun.
Joe Posnanski doesn’t make mistakes. Mistakes make Joe Posnanski!
Wait… that doesn’t work right…
99% of the world is made up of idiots. You are in the good 1% though, don’t let them bring you down. Oh, and just think of the thousands of readers who love your work and DON’T even post comments. Be proud!
Joe, sometimes it helps to take pity on those people. They can’t help it. And try to keep the whole proportion of fans-to-dinks in mind. You know that probability study where they figured how many people can be in a group before two of them share a birthday? I don’t remember the number, but I bet it’s higher than the number of people you can have in a group before you get the first asshole.
Don’t feed the trolls.
And I don’t think 99% of people are idiots. I think it is probably closer to the reverse, but they sure can make life miserable for others.
Being one of the latecomers who just discovered this blog in the last several months, I was starting to panic by the third sentence. By the second paragraph, I was sure that you were suspending the blog. Needless to say, I was relieved when the post took the turn it did. Losing FJM and this blog in the same month would have sucked.
I’ve actually been impressed with the quality of the conversation here. Apparently intelligent, thoughtful writing attracts intelligent, thoughtful readers. On the other hand, there’s always the “1% jerk factor.” The president of a restaurant chain where I worked during college used that phrase to describe the people who simply cannot be satisfied, no matter what you do. Unfortunately, I don’t think you can have any public-facing undertaking without having these people pop up.
I work in a technical field, and I deal with this sort of person every day. My favorite are the ones who will continue to argue even after having received concrete documentation proving they’re wrong (usually documentation easily accessible with a simple Google search). I feel your pain, and I’d like to say thanks for dealing with it. Nothing makes a bad day brighten like noticing a new Posnanski entry in my RSS reader.
Big sign at the Blog Zoo.
“Don’t Feed the Trolls”
That’s good advice. Rock on, Joe!
Don’t let those people bother you. Your writing is masterful. Some people only feel good about themselves by trashing other people. When they take aim at you and look for technical errors it is because you are accomplished and they are jealous. You should consider it a compliment. Even though it is handed out ’snarkily’ (love the usage in your blog post).
Keep up the great writing. I enjoy reading your stuff even when the topic isn’t particularly interesting to me. I’m an old J-School grad turned lawyer, and I’m not easily impressed. Your writing impresses me. You’ve got great insight and a wonderful way with words. I’d enjoy meeting you one day, perhaps over a beer (no, I’m straight). Next time you’re in Allen Fieldhouse covering a KU game, stop by the wheelchair section on the North end (front row, West side, spot no. 2). I’d like to shake your hand.
I agree that you will probably receive some heightened backlash from random commentators for writing this post – and there will probably always be at least a few nit-pickers – but know that the vast majority of us enjoy reading your blog with or without mistakes.
The fact that you take the time to write personal posts like this one makes me even more excited for the next. It shows that you care and that you truly enjoy writing this. The fact that you value our opinions as readers makes me respect you even more. Can’t wait for your next post.
My nose is now officially brown.
I’ve never understood people who do that either. The great majority of us just love what you are doing, despite any minor typos.
The anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in people, sometimes this manifests itself as the grammar and fact checking gestapo. Please, don’t let it get to you.
Joe I was the one who made the #1 correction. I wasn’t trying to get under your skin. It feels kind of strange seeing my comment in your post interpreted as a negative, “trying to bash you” sort of thing since I love your blog. THT is the only resource I know of that has win shares for the last few years. I didn’t know that THT had it wrong or that win shares had been updated.
People are idiots. The protection of the internet allows people to the scream about things they know nothing about. I can’t stand it either when people correct you when you were right in the first place.
There are a lot of Mikes on here, so time to change it up a little. Keep up the good work Joe.
Error Policeman-Who is Jim Podsednik, I thought this was Jorge Posada’s blog??!?!?!?!?!111
Joe, you do great work, but yes I do have one complaint…How do you do an entire post about bad base stealers and not once refer to a speed measurement that you yourself came up with. I truly believe that Cecil Fielder was in fact clocked in 1998 at 1.1 Molinas! I am so ANGRY!!! I’m sorry, I am not just angry, I am PISSED!!! *plays banjo tune* I’m sorry.
This is off topic but I know that I can turn to the Posnanski faithful for help…
Did the Star can Jeff Flanigan? A couple of posts on kansascity.com made it sound that way…
Please…..I can only hope that this is true…
Please…someone make my day and confirm that great writing like Joe’s will live on while hacks like Flannigan will go away….
My favorite corrections were to the post about Gehrig’s Luckiest Man game. That was priceless. Such combinations of no sense of humor and pomposity can only be admired.
Just want to second (25th?) what everyone else said, Joe. Easily my favorite blog. Keep up the great work.
It is very easy to be brave behind a keyboard. And it is very, very easy to sit there and find things and twist things and feel superior, when you’ll never meet that person face to face.
It is easier to spend hours tearing someone apart and feeling clever about it than to actually DO something. Create, invent, write, devise. It is easier to spend all your hours online doing that instead of turning off the machine and accomplishing something, anything.
The comments you speak of are people railing against feeling powerless. They perceive you as having power, while they do not. People listen to you, like you, come here and praise you – or even if they argue with you they are PAYING ATTENTION TO YOU.
The people sending those kinds of things want attention, too. Think of a spoiled, misbehaving child. You’re having a telephone call and the child wants you to pay attention to them. They dance, they sing, they tug on your leg. Nothing. Finally, they go knock a vase off the table and break it and scatter water everywhere. Of course, now you’ll put down the phone, won’t you?
It’s taken me years to learn that the only way to deal with people like this is to not respond, EVER. I don’t reply to posts, I delete them (freedom of speech does not mean I have to pay for the bandwidth for their tantrums), I ignore them.
Ignoring them is the worst thing you can do to these people.
The crazy ones won’t go away. They’ll still come back. But you just gotta ignore them. There is no way to rationally engage with people like that. They don’t want you to convince them, they want to try to take you down so that they don’t feel inferior to you. You’ve done nothing to make them feel inferior except exist and live. Nothing will make them stop unless you stop writing and go away. And we know that will never, ever happen.
Sorry about this. It sucks. But please learn from my mistakes and just ignore them. I tried for years to engage these kinds people before I realized there was no point.
Joe,
I hereby announce that I am suspending my readership. I will only come back if you start advertising on this blog. It is a senseless waste to not monetize this thing. Oh, who am I kidding. You know I can’t quit you Joe.
As someone that Joe has ripped in the past for an asinine comparison post, this is all just for fun. Don’t even pay attention to the nasty ones Joe. I also have to deal with an idiot like this everytime my father in law comes to visit. He tried to tell me that the Bulls won 6 NBA championships in a row even though Jordan retired for 2 years in the middle of that 6 year run, and the Rockets won it twice. He tried to tell me that Kordell Stewart only threw a couple interceptions his first year as QB, he had 17. He said to my father, a financial advisor, “I don’t understand how your business could be good right now considering how you guys have screwed people over lately.” What? Yes, my father is responsible for the world financial meltdown. I mean those insurance policies and annuity products he sells are responsible for this mess. Just ignore them Joe. I go crazy over stupidity, but I’m learning to just forget it. You should too Joe.
Finally, you know we’ll all buy your book when it comes out. You need to have a way for us to buy it to benefit you the most. Possibly you could have a referral link to an Amazon page.
Joe,
I agree w/ Aaron M. on the need to advertise on your page. I come here every day (and yes, once or twice a day while at work since this blog helps me keep my sanity), and I think you definitely should be getting some sort of compensation for all the interesting articles you throw out for us. Nothing too crazy or distracting, but an ad here or there would definitely not bother us faithful since we know you’re getting something in return for all the writing you selflessly do for us. Love your work, Poz!!
I was asked for a link to something I cited on a political blog I read and contribute to.
For ease, I went to tinyurl.com to make the link manageable.
I got this response:
“Ha! You’re busted! Everyone knows tinyurl.com is a liberal website!”
I don’t know how you deal with such people. Ignorance and arrogance are a lethal mix.
Your post got me thinking about the difference between speaking and writing.
In conversation, we make grammatical mistakes and slips of the tongue all the time, but people rarely correct us. (Though I had a roommate once who would point out my split infinitives. Drove me crazy, which I suspect was the point.)
Writing, on the other hand, is traditionally free of these mistakes. We expect professional writing to be fact-checked, proofread, and otherwise perfected before it is published.
Blog posts have blurred this distinction. I think of blogs as transcribed speech, not professional writing. So when I read your blog, I try to read it as if you were speaking, and ignore the typos. Others obviously feel differently, and still want to hold your blog to the standards of published writing. These people are strangely old-fashioned, though they would probably bristle at that idea. They can’t see the forest (the amazing ideas you present to us on an almost daily basis) for the trees (the occasional typo that in no way impairs a reader’s ability to comprehend those ideas). As with any change, it will take time for some people to adapt to the new rules.
Your blog is a joy to read, and I hope you continue to write it for a long time.
Love the blog, would be disappointed if it started getting choked up with advertisements. (And really, how many ‘did I mention I wrote/am writing this book’ comments does it take for that to count as advertising? You haven’t gotten even one sale from that?)
I was a more ’serious’ blogger some years back, though with perhaps one one-ten-thousandth the traffic this site gets, I suspect, and even I got sick of the self-proclaimed know-it-alls: “Aaron Gleeman is God, and if you don’t agree with him you must be wrong,” for instance.
A couple of links to another writer I’m a fan of, specifically on essays related to blogging and fandom. Though the specific points related to webcomics rather than sportswriting, the general points seem relevent to me no matter what your subject happens to be:
http://www.websnark.com/archives/2006/03/channel_markers.html
http://www.websnark.com/archives/2004/10/entitlement_and.html
Yeah, as the others have said, ignore the detractors. Your writing is excellent. I’m a new reader, but this is becoming one of my favorite blogs to read.
Dear Joe,
As far as the money goes, I did buy your book about Satchel Paige(and really enjoyed it). It is a shame that he didn’t make the Hall.
I can’t wait for your upcoming book on the 75 Red Sox. Reading about Pudge, Fred Lynn, and the rest will be great.
Don’t worry about the mistakes. We all make em.
I think, in life as in the blogosphere, there are mistakes and there are errors and that they’re very different things.
On another blog today I read a Dodgers preview looking at options for their rotation in 2009, in which the author suggested that Randy Johnson might be an affordable option: “The Big Unit is poised to win his 3,000th game this season and that’ll be fun.” That would indeed be an impressive accomplishment.
The internet is a fascinating place… the best and the worst humanity has to offer, in digital form.
I can’t understand the mindset either that can allow someone to so boldly assert that something that is false is true. It drives me crazy when I’m googling some technical question and I find an answer at some geek forum that is completely confidently wrong. It takes hours to sort through this sort of nonsense
Still though, whatcha gonna do? Fifteen years ago, such answers would involve a trip out of the house or at least, a lengthy phonecall. It seems that civilization has not made any strides in reducing the amount of crap you need to sort through to find what you’re looking for, it’s just changed medium.
However, Joe, your credibility will suffer a bit if the Bills don’t start beating the Chiefs soon. Well, your credibility or my sanity (I’m a Bills fan and I’ve had about enough).
Joe,
I am from k.c. – live in Youngstown – Showed your Herb Score post to the Indians Fans @ work – Two cried – I really enjoy your work.
jct
Now THAT’S the Tyler Thigpen I’ve read about here!
If it makes you feel any better about the snarky nit-pickers, Joe, I’ve always thought this was one of the few blogs in which they’re kept in check. Seriously, it’s practically the only blog where I make a habit of reading the comments (well, OK, there’s one other one, but that one hardly gets any comments, so it doesn’t really count). I think this place is remarkably civil.
Neyer’s suddenly free blog is filled with the same crap. “you are such an idiot and this is why…”, seems to be the mantra of 90% of sports fans.
Be a duck, let it roll of your back.
Don’t ever change, Boopsie.
“Don’t ever change, Boopsie.”
Well played….
Hey Joe,
Don’t sweat it. I’ve been reading your blog for a long time, and I never read the comments section (just like I completely skipped over it right now to write this), and I bet most of your other readers are the same way.
Q
You misspelled “Posnanski” it is supposed to be Poznanski. Geez!!!
Forget and ignore the keyboard cowboys Joe…..they contribute nothing ………they remind me of the guy in a woebegotten porno flick who promulgated the opinion that masturbation was the best, most enjoyable form of sex: so obviously misguided, wrong an demented that even commenting about it is a frivolously worthless exercise.
The falsely pompous windbags you speak of are as ubiqitous as ever now that there are a zillion places for a nobody to get self-righteous (anonmouse-style) about the writings of others. At the newspaper for which I write, folks will gleefully post about the mispelling of “afidavit” in a story about a deranged man who murdered his entire family, including the dog, in a mad spree with a saws all. The message isn’t what entices them to read the story, it’s the opportunity to seize bogus superiority by pouncing on the errors of others. Or the perceived errors of others, as is the case here. Pity them. They are social misfits still stinging from that third grade spelling-bee loss and sad men and women who never got called back when they tried to get on “Who Wants to be a Millionaire,” which was hosted by Alex Trebec.
Someone should point out to dolorous Joe here that his following is freakishly adoring. Few bloggers around the e-universe have garnered such love so quickly. You should tell him he’s earned it, too.
Only, misspell “erned” or something, because we’ve got a thing going here.
1. Thanks for this wonderful web sight.
2. You should not have to waist time separating the nits from the good stuff.
3. Thanks also for giving me just a bit of the fickle finger of fame.
Just adding my thoughts to those of what will soon be hundreds of others… you’re great, the nit pickers should get a life, and part of the fun of reading you is trying to figure out what the word was supposed to be when you misspell it.
Oh, by the way: enjoyed the baseball card post. My Topps heyday was 1987-1991, at which point I got all fancy and switched to Upper Deck, but the 1987 Topps set, with the random wood background remains my favorite.
Looking back at my cards I love nothing more than trying to figure out what exactly was required of someone to be granted Future Star or Rated Rookie status. As best I can tell, you had to be at least 29 years old, have fewer than 100 career PAs and have little to no baseball talent.
Given those criteria, I’m expecting my own Rated Rookie card to come out in 2010.
Sean Asbury – Yes, Flanagan was let go by The Star. As a Star reader, I’m pretty happy, because I think it was pretty clear that he wasn’t offering a lot of value for that column space. I never met him, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt as being a nice enough guy, but I did have more than one email exchange with him on the subject of baseball, and he seemed utterly convinced that his views on the sport were infallible (like Ken Harvey being a solid choice as an everyday first baseman because he was once an “all-star”), no matter how many more rational arguments you threw at him. It was probably time for him to go.
Of course, the BBWAA will continue to let him vote for the Hall of Fame despite the fact the he is no longer, you know, a baseball writer, but that’s a different subject.
Joe, you are awesome! You are a deep thinker. You come up with wonderful ideas that I know I had never thought of. Some people are incapable of doing this.
I hate it when people say you are wrong when you are not.
I do not know if I could do a job like this. I think I would be doing like that big shot that sent back some F bombs!
Joe,
You’re experiencing the gradual decline in discourse that happens to every website I’ve ever read. I’m not sure what the name for this effect is — I’m sure it has one — but essentially every website goes through the same process.
When an intelligent website is created, it is initially read by very few people. These people are generally cordial and offer relevant, insightful commentary. However, as a website grows in popularity, the sense of community becomes diminished. Stupider people appear and post stupid comments. Stupid people ruin websites.
Stupid people ruin websites by diminishing the signal to noise ratio. As stupid people post their stupid comments, the good, intelligent comments get lost in the noise. Your more intelligent commenters may spend sometime correcting stupidity, but they’ll eventually get tired of it and leave. Often, they won’t try at all.
This is an inevitable downward slope that every open website on the internet experiences. Think about any website you read or have read comments on. The level of discourse is almost always directly proportional to the amount of readers. If your website gets big enough, you’ll eventually get ESPN Conversation and YouTube comment level stupidity.
The only solutions to this problem are really:
a) Give up on comments, throwing out the baby with the bathwater
b) Employ some sort of moderation system. Even this though, frequently fails (see Digg, Slashdot, et. al.)
Enjoy what you’ve got while you have it, knowing that as each day passed, your website readership is getting dumber.
…
Hate on, Haters.
Joaldo, Joaldo. Feel free to vent anytime, brother. As a loyal, long time Poz addict I am not only irritated by the incorrect editing comments but the correct ones as well. I mean since when is your blog an English Lit and grammar class?
To all of you readers compelled to comment on “errors” I say this. Always check two things before letting that impulse allow you to press submit…
A) Your facts
B) Yourself
And after you’ve checked those two things remember the economy’s in the dumps, we have two wars raging, food and health care costs are skyrocketing and our environment is collapsing…
Can we just maintain some perspective please.
Oh and this last sentence is for all you compulsives…
Go reed anozer blog poast and leeve us aone. PlEECE!
This Anonymous fellow is a good writer… I think I read some of his poems in high school. I would listen to his suggestions.
Joe, I am sorry you have to endure these people. There are some writers (most of them smart asses) who pride themselves on not making those kinds of mistakes. So when they do make a mistake like that, I think it’s fair game to point it out.
You, however, don’t appeared to be worried about such things. There are usually typos in your blog, most of the time they’re harmless, and it’s obvious you’re much more concerned about getting a lot of good writing out there than wasting time correcting all the meaningless typos.
I am guilty of being too much of a grammar/spelling policeman. But I would never email you about it because if the only price I pay for getting to read the best blog on the internet is a couple of random misspellings? I’ll pay that price any day.
Keep up the good work, Joe.
Like Matt, I also was I was sure that you were about to kill off this blog. You provide much joy and the sports are only part of it. When I was little by I read Jim Murray, now I read Jim Posnanski.
Hey, I love the blog… Little typos have just always bothered me, none more so than my own. I am a little paranoid about my own mistakes, I guess, and I figure most other people (especially professional writers) are as well. That’s why I am surprised when I see typos in your blog… I figure you’d, like, check that stuff over a few times. Or get a proof reader. Or something…
Of course I also can’t type without looking at my fingers… Anyway, I’d still read your blog, even if it had a typo every word — it might just take me awhile.
I stopped reading all the posts so hopefully it hasn’t been mentioned. But its people such as the anonymous guy that are the inspiration for the customer is not always right movement. Home Depot realized that 80 percent of their time is dealing with the 20 percent of people who are difficult, therefor they are spending more time dealing with the people that they do not want to do business with, instead they should be spending that 80 percent of time on the majority of their customers who aren’t a hassle. I have no idea where Im going with this but basically dont worry about the 20 percent.
Joe,
You made me remember the Shazaam/Isis Hour in a (predominantly) sports blog. I’m 35 and haven’t thought about that in any meaningful way in probably 25 years. Make all the typos you want. You could even date my sister. If I had one.
Thanks, man.
Paul White – Flanagan sent me a rather arrogant email a few years back, I’m not entirely sure he understood my point. He mentioned Harvey being an all-star and then made some pointless Calvin Pickering comment. I never said anything about Pickering. ?????
Joe –
A lot of people have posted the general comments about how great this blog is (and they’re right). I’ll just rephrase what I said on a prior thread — “Football on the Radio” is one of the best pieces of sportswriting, ever.
What I find to be the biggest mistake of all is why this little nugget has not received more publicity…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDC6-cfMYdc
(Joe shops in China)
Joe, easy to solve this problem..2 words for the grammar police. Fuck Off.
Joe, I hope you’ll try to be more perfect in the future.
By the way, I look forward to your book about Warren Beatty’s Reds, although I don’t believe it came out in 1975. You may want to check that.
Someday when humans link with the web with their minds, we’ll be able to hunt trolls for sport, sending jolts of electricity into their cerebral cortexes to fry their little brains like chimichangas.
And we will all vote for Bill James’ head in a jar every four years and be happy.
Robert Denby – You mean Ned Beatty. You should really check your facts a little more carefully.
Robert Denby – You mean Ned Beatty. You should really check your facts a little more carefully.
Well played, sir. Well played.
Dear Joe,
I’m amazed that people could be so critical of the spelling and such on this blog…I read several other blogs on a regular basis, and I’ve found that the spelling and grammar on this blog to be pretty good. For really bad spelling and grammar, check out Metsblog. I love the site despite the terrible English…I sometimes think of offering my copy editing services to them for free, but then I remember that I have a full time job and that there’s like a hundred posts a day on that site.
I was about to apologize for a gentle correction I made once on this blog, about alliteration and assonance…but reading what I posted now, I see that I was correcting a fellow poster, and not you.
Hang in there,
Nate
keep up the good work buddy.
re: concern about the recent comment slide
first!!!!!111!!
Joe,
Thanks for your words. I enjoy reading them. Misspelled ones too.
Nate
Joaldo,
Like most everyone else, I love you and your blog. And most of the comments, too. I’m glad you’re going to keep at it.
As are many others, I’m looking forward to your upcoming book on the Reds, Though I am surprised you’ve decided to write about politics.
Joe,
I can’t believe I’ve read more than 5 books of your blogging! Now I have a response when my fiancee tells me I should read more.
Thank goodness for this interweb, a Manhattanite can read all he wants about the Royals.
Keep up the great work,
Craig
Flannigan is gone? Dear God….who will give us weekly (if not daily) updates about what George Brett says, does, thinks, eats, wears, etc?
He was arrogant and worthless….glad he is gone…wish he would take Herm with him….
Joe,
As a native Cincinnatian and a lifelong baseball nut I’ve been fortunate enough to read almost every blog entry here. Its required daily reading. I think the majority of the comments are submitted by folks with great insight and it adds value. There are always a few wingnuts and thats what makes this country great! We offer the misinformed the opportunity to expose their ignorance by speaking up.
God save the queen!
Honestly, I find it amazing that the comments on this blog have stayed civil and mostly interesting for as long as they have. It’s a credit to the tone set by our host.
Jeremy’s earlier post about all internet forums steadily devolving is right on. The best example I think is Nate Silver’s 538 where the comments went from incredibly insightful to unreadable in about six weeks.
I can think of only one other sports blog that I read where the comments have been so smart and so polite for so long, and I’m not going to mention it by name because you clowns will just show up and f*ck it up.
To focus on today’s piece from Joe, he’s not complaining about being corrected on errors. My reading of it is that he wants corrections, he invites corrections, he CRAVES corrections.
Hopefully, though, corrections will be confined to errors of fact, so that a better blog will result. But if you are correcting an error of fact, make sure you have a castiron case.
And don’t sweat the small stuff.
I must concur with an earlier post about Joe’s column recounting Lou Gehrig’s final game….That was the most hilarious piece of writing I had seen in weeks and it just blew in from out of nowhere but Joe’s wonderful mind…But, then the few idiot posts came afterword and it was an even more hilarious day.
Don’t ever take that away from this blog.
“Two and two to Harvey Kuenn….”
Oh, how about Lance Link, the wonderful monkey as investigator on TV in the early 70’s, maybe for a few months. That was incredible, perfectly wonderfully stupid comical Sat TV.
Warren Beatty’s “Reds” came out in 1981 – just before Ronnie Reagan got his act totally together and began to make the Communist sympathisers rather mute…Hooray for that!
Joe,
I’ve now been blocked at work so reading you actually requires MY time.
I love everything about this blog and in fact it is the ONLY blog I read.
I’ve felt for a long time that I don’t mind someone who is ignorant of the facts, I certainly don’t know everything. I also don’t mind someone who is a little arrogant as long as they back it up.
It is that unique combination of ignorance and arrogance that really pisses me off.
I will read you forever, Joe.
Joe, this is now the only blog I read (since FJM is gone, that was the other one). I think all FJM loyal readers, and Joe himself, will agree with me in saying that the way to fix these minor errors is to “concetrate” a little harder.
Keep up the good work
People like correcting others so they can feel like they “stumped the expert.”
You’re the best Joe, never leave us!!!
Joe,
I like to consider myself an average Joe just like you. Like you, I blog. If you want, you can call me Joe the Blogger.
Which is why it upsets me to see this post of yours, just this real media elitism telling me that there are rules about facts.
Well last I checked, this is still America, and a lotta other Joe the Bloggers out there want it to be too, and in America sometimes you gotta work hard and maybe things are going to turn out so right.
But when I blog, I get in there and mess around a bit, really help out, and you know, you know, sometimes that isn’t as facty as we’d like it to be.
But you have to remember what’s important to real Americans out there isn’t what somebody in the media tells them what all these facts are, it’s what they know in their hearts and what they—their beliefs.
And I think if you knew the real America and really got out there and met with these folks like I have, you’d see maybe all your facts aren’t right because what we’re makin out here right now is a true fact, you betcha.
Joe,
Do you think that there isn’t someone in every one of those crowds listening to Bruce every night who won’t willingly point out the missed notes–be them vocal, guitar or whatever instrument–to the person next to them?
Do you really think he dwells on the few detractors he’ll inevitably have?
And yet that is still The Boss’ magic, as you’ve pointed out here: someone who is willing to go before the crowd and perform the very thing he’s done countless number of times before and give it his all no less than every other time, despite being able to promise perfection?
I don’t come here expecting a flawless version of Born to Run every time. I just hope for your best try, whether or not it works, and I’ve yet to be disappointed. No cases of factory block that I’ve detected.
Such criticisms come with the new found popularity. And for being willing to be corrected, to put yourself before the crowd, to be part of the crowd, in so many ways, you’ve become the Springsteen–a fan amongst the fans–of sports writing.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it might not. But isn’t that the point? Because after all: it’s all jazz.
“Oh, and just think of the thousands of readers who love your work and DON’T even post comments.”
Lou makes a good point. I am one of those thousands of readers that loves your blog but has never commented. I have worked as an editor and I notice all the spelling and capitalization errors. They bother me. Not just here, but everywhere. Still, I feel no desire to tell you about them. I realize that this is a blog, not a book. You must type fast. Apparently you do not use spellcheck. No big deal.
I have one comment on this post. You say: “Maybe that’s just the way of the world.” I do not mean to seem like I am correcting you (especially today), but I do not think it is the way of the “world”. I can see that, from your perspective, it may seem that way. I live outside the US, though, and I think this love of catching other people’s mistakes is an especially American phenomenon.
If one thing is true, it’s that the people who are sure about stuff are completely uncorrelated with the people who are right about stuff. As part of the silent majority of readers (until now), I say: ignore the ignorant.
It could be worse Joe. You could be a Detroit Lions fan.
http://detroit4lyfe.blogspot.com
Joe,
We’ll make up your losses on writing this blog for free next time you write a book (Hey, does anyone know if Joe is writing a book?)
Honestly, the addendum feels a little tacked on.
Joe,
I agree with you 100%. Its probably the price of success with new folks coming onto this board that have the snarky Deadspin attitude to everything in life. Just keep doing what you’re doing.
My favorite is when they respond with “your wrong”.
If you’re going to read our idiot comments anyway, could I suggest that you read them before you allow them to appear on the blog? I know that newspaper people hate censorship, but the newspaper does it that way. It might have a damping effect on the number you get. If not, it would have a damping effect on the number to which you must respond.
You’ve never got my last name rite!
http://xkcd.com/386/
Sounds about right.
Just curious, Joe: did you ever see the West Wing episode where Josh Lyman gets sucked into participating in a blog called “Lemon-Lyman.com”? Amazing watching such a smart and able man trying to deal with the sorts of megalomaniacs that people this interweb. Keep setting ‘em up, Joe.
As Julius Caesar was advised just before he went to the Forum, non carborundum illegitimus.
[...] Mistakes (with addendum) That’s like a half a Bill Clinton biography. All the while, it has been fun and obsessive and, as you know, I have been paid 0.00 cents per word so financially it has been a real boon for me. And I have really enjoyed the comments, … [...]
Poz for Prez!
Don’t worry about it Joe, there will always be f*ckwads on the Internet with nothing else to do.
Look at it this way, at least they’re reading you and they (apparently) feel strongly enough about things to send you a nasty letter.
If nobody read you and cared, you’d never receive any mail. Would that be better?
I know it can be aggravating to read ridiculous criticisms that are both wrong and incredibly insulting at the same time, but I just shrug, send a “thanks for reading my stories” email back to the author (which usually absolutely INFURIATES them, which is sheer comedy gold) and just move on.
There are better things in life to spend time on.
Now, VALID criticism is something I always take to heart. But random nonsense, meh. Goes with the territory.
And I don’t think 99% of people are idiots. I think it is probably closer to the reverse.
That kind of depends on the context. A PERSON can be smart. PEOPLE are invariably stupid
I know you’re saying that you don’t mind people that correct REAL mistakes (typos and whatnot) but I’ve never understood that. Why would you correct a poster’s grammar unless it makes the post unreadable? I can see people pointing out stat or year mistakes because those change the intended content of the post. Correcting grammar just means that the rest of us have to scroll past a POINTLESS reply post.
I’ve heard people say they really like grammar. I guess I just don’t believe it
.
Joe,
PAS. People Are Stupid.
The internet gives everyone a cloak of invulnerability. So much so, that I wonder why people even bother to sign in as anonymous!!
One thing that did disapoint me about this blog…is that in your Greg Maddux post the other month. Greg pointed out when steroids abuse became noticable in the majors…remember that?
“What’s the biggest change you’ve seen in baseball Greg? Hmmm, “all those opposite field homers”
Seems like a mistake that all of us missed that clue. Well, most of us.
love and action,
chh
Joe,
I’ve been a reader for a long time and I’m not sure I’ve ever posted a comment on this blog or your previously hosted “The Soul of Baseball” blog. I read your articles here and on the Kansas City Star and am thrilled to death you finally were able to contribute to SI.
I’m no brilliant reader and all I can offer in support is this: keep doing what you love and ignore the haters – any persons who’ve paid much mind to the detractors, the mindless nit-pickers, the loveless, have rarely “made it”. You’re above that and continue to prove it on a daily basis, at least from what I can read.
Thanks for all of the wonderfully thought out (or otherwise rambling but amusing) writing.
- Kyle
Joe:
You rock, man!!!! Please don’t let the idiot patrol get you down, especially since you’re a beacon of intelligence on the Web.
Just keep on keeping on.
Mike
JoPa
you are THE greatest writer of all time – not just sports, but in all of recorded history of mankind – I say that with not once ounce of flippancy, and I know others will agree (I’m always right, so they should)
you put FEELING and EMOTION in your words, more than anyone I’ve ever read – your own thoughts, your explanations of why or why not, what’s actually going on in your mind (and heart and soul) as you write it, as if you’re not writing, but rather, engaging in a conversation (and in essence, with the comments and feedback, that’s what it all is) … you write not about games, but about people, not about sports but about life, and that’s why you ARE the greatest (no quote marks needed)
I’ve noticed typos here and there, and so what – this is a blog, not a formal dissertation, and in fact they make it more personal*
*on a personal level, that is, if that makes sense, and if it does, please explain it to me someday
finally, Joe, please … I beg of you: when they make that movie about Buck O’Neil, please Joe, promise that you will do everything in your considerable power to ensure that Morgan Freeman plays Buck
Coco Crisp: Got Milk?
Hey Joe, let’s have a trade. For one week I can have your nitpickers, and you can have the paranoid people who continually write in to tell me that the Far Left dominates all media including but not limited to KCTV-5 News at 10.
If you agree, meet me at the Consentino’s Price Chopper in Brookside at 3 p.m. tomorrow where we will conduct the transaction.
You forgot to capitalize I in your last sentence, GOTCAH!
Just read Soul of Baseball, and am really looking forward to that book you’re writing about some team from the 60s or something. Just make sure it doesn’t get me choked up on the subway, so I don’t get weird stares this time.
Bear with me here, there is a train of thought and it does relate to the topic at hand:
Do you know how bulky it is to download a website? Apparently if you want to save an article on a computer you need the website, plus a punch of random files and images and subfolder named “_vti_cnf”. It’s a blend of suspicious files and cumbersome web structure, so I’ve only downloaded one website in my life. I’ve kept it.
The website is from June 21, 2004, and it’s an article by you. I have kept it for four years because I have found it to be one of the best articles I’ve ever read on any subject. It’s unique, well-thought, and filled with supporting bits of information that could be great stories themselves. It was a well-written article that I find myself referencing every now and then.
Also, it ended up being completely and utterly wrong.
The story was, “Tiger learns it’s tough to stay on top” when he was in the middle of his majors slump. As you highlight in the story, golfers only get so long at the top, and there was a good chance that Tiger Woods might never again be the same old Tiger. There were a number of previous examples highlighted where the loss of greatness was sudden and unexpected by the likes of Watson, Trevino, etc. No one was thinking it would happen to Tiger. No one. Its unique take, while staying away from away from the old bag of journalistic tricks (“Tiger declawed?” et al) made the article extremely engaging. Here was something new about the most written athlete of the decade. It was stunning.
The point is that its prescience, or lack thereof, doesn’t matter. If anything, it makes Tiger’s incredible achievements even more amazing since 2004. I just wish there was a way you could reference it sometime, but I’m afraid you would just get inundated with fools going HAHA U CAN’T PREDICT MY 12 YEAR OLD SISTER CAN RITE BETTER THAN U WOODS IS SO GRET ANYONE CAN C LOLZ. They just wouldn’t get it.
Here’s to bucking the trend and looking at the world in a different light. I’ll read them every time.
Joe,
I read your work because I am a person who appreciates good writing…and good thinking. Thank you for a lot of both.
I’m sure you are familiar with Teddy Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena” speech. The message holds true for you.
I’m sure you’re also familiar with Bill James’s “Dear Jackass” farewell column in his final Baseball Abstract. No matter how great you are, there will always be detractors.
Please keep doing what you do and know that there are many who deeply appreciate it, although we not scream it so loud as those you discuss.
Sincerely,
A Fan Who Has Never Before Posted a Response
[...] Mistakes (with addendum) That’s five or six good-sized books. Whew. That’s a lot of words. That’s a LOT of words. That’s like a half a Bill Clinton biography. [...]
no one puts Baby in the corner!
Joe,
To me, the most impressive stat, that needs no correction but a “I am not worthy!” chant from this reader is the the line, “…my quick estimate is that I’ve written about 500,000 words here.” And the words in Sports Illustrated, the paper, and oh, did I tell you that you are writing a book?
All of this is well written, provokes reaction, and if I don’t find some of those words interesting to me, those words are always passionate.
I am, humbly, in awe.
Thanks,
Gene Oberto
Hey Joe-
I’m with the guy who said 99% of the world is not idiots. I ride my bike to work, and lots of other places as well. (Those of you in JoCo have probably seen the fat guy in bright orange or yellow….) People ask me all the time how I handle the idiots. I saw that in an average week, probably 5000 cars pass me in my commutes, and maybe once every other week someone yells something stupid or drives in a dangerous or intimidating manner. Nearly every car swerves (often too much) out of my way, defers (even when it’s not necessary) or otherwise passes without incident. Those once every 5 or 10K car idiots who beep or yell at me to get on the sidewalk get under my skin, but really, we’re talking II (Idiot Index) of .0001. That’s pretty good. They’re loud. They make me angry. They sometimes make me want to fight! But they are a tiny percentage of the population, and i realize that they have issues far greater than I do.
So, keep up the great work. Keep writing, and I’ll keep riding. And we”ll both ignore the morons, who deserve to be ignored.
Thank you, James.
—
Here’s a mistake I made: I only bought 2 copies of “The Soul Of Baseball” … one for myself, and one for my son for Christmas. Unfortunately, it’s too late to take delivery on 2 more for my other two boys in time for Christmas. I’m only a few pages into mine, and you’ll be pleased to hear I haven’t found a single typo. Just great writing, as usual.
Happy Thanksgiving, Joe. And Merry Blogging.
Heh.
joe
i guess better late than never
FWIW, aren’t real too many people who write bettern you do or who can tell a story near as well. Even if i didn’t love baseball, i’d real your stuff just for the pleasure of it.
so what i mean is – there are assholes out there. it’s one thing to tell a guy his fly is down so as he doesn’t embarrass himself but it is flat out rude to tell him he’s too fat or his ass is flat or whatever stuff like that insults guys.
so ignore the rude guys and just delete their comments. and if they complain, tell them to try using their manners.
Dear Joe,
First of all, what do you really want us to do when we see clear typos or other minor mistakes? I’ve been a professional proof reader and see the occasional error here, but my attitude has always been this is a labor of love on your part and (unless you envision someday compiling the blog into a book about sneaking in blurbs about writing books about the Reds) so I don’t sweat the little stuff. But if you *want* us to sweat the little stuff, I’ll be glad to do so. Someday some editor might think more kindly of you for the effort.
Secondly, I expect that you’ve made several dollars from this blog. You do point Joe Fans in the direction of other material you’ve written for which you get paid. We may also inspired ideas for columns that helps you earn your living. I don’t doubt that on a per word basis you might average out to less than a penny per word, but it’s not nothing.
Finally, you get more of *my* time posting than any other site. You inspire me. I grew up reading the late great Jim Murray in the Los Angeles Times, and you remind me of him, in a “you’re not as nasty as Murray could be but still manage to mine the humor despite all that” kind of way. I think you inspire us all. I’d like to think that in some small way, once in a rare while, you read something I’ve written and nod your head and thought, “Yeah, I hadn’t thought of that.” In particular, after recently moving to a new job in a new state, first time in my life I’ve lived outside of California, I get to see my wife/friends/family maybe one weekend a month, and your posts have helped keep me less insane. I consider it returning the favor you do me (and us all) for writing here. If anything I’ve ever written has caused you displeasure, I apologize deeply. And I do try to back up my posts with facts from baseball-reference.com, because, well, it’s only fair. You put in *loads* of time researching stuff, and it would be lazy of me to not put in my own effort.
Yours truly,
Richard Aronson
Joe,
I’ve been a big fan and loyal reader for a long time and I can only promise you that I will make sure a correction IS actually a correction if I ever feel the need to point one out. You work hard as a writer I can only reciprocate in return as a reader. Keep up the good work.
Joe the Mistake maker, (sorry couldn’t help myself)
You just prove the point that one of my English made (one of those way back there somewhere) … there is no such thing as good writing … only good rewriting.
Frankly, I’m in awe that you actually find time to read all the comments, much less write 500,000 words – in addition to your assorted day jobs.
By the way, I work in New York with someone who worked on the desk for you in Kansas City, and said you were the nicest writer to work with and always turned in the most “finished” game pieces. So I’m sure you’re stuff has less typos and assorted errors than the average Joe.
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