Sunday Tidbits (3:50 p.m. updated)
Posted: November 9th, 2008 | Filed under: Baseball | 51 Comments »
Thought it might be fun to have sort of a live-blogging Sunday — just constant little updates throughout the day. Anyway, it sounds fun NOW (10 a.m. West Coast Time). It might not sound like much fun later in the day, but hey, let’s see how it goes:
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9:57 p.m. Not sure if this Tidbits idea worked but hey, it’s over now.
Before calling it a night, though, I should say that I absolutely agreed with Herm Edwards’ decision to go for two at the end of the game. The Chiefs defense was shot, the offense wasn’t much better, and anyway San Diego should be a LOT better than the Chiefs. You get a two-point try to win, I very much respect a coach willing to take the shot.
Of course, I’m cool with the second guessers too — it’s fun to second guess. The one thing I DO NOT respect however are people who don’t second guess the DECISION to go but second guess the PLAY that was called. I’ve already gotten a few emails along those lines. They definitely would gone for two but they would have called something else — the Chiefs called a semi-rollout pass that was designed to get the ball to Tony Gonzalez. It failed miserably. “So fine he goes for it,” one emailer wrote, “but what the hell was that play call?”
So let me get this straight: You agree with going for two but you would have preferred a play that would have, you know, worked. Yeah. Good thinking.
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3:57 p.m. Well, maybe that’s why they coach. Chiefs have ball first down at Chargers 45 now with two minutes left. So you could say the strategy paid off. I guess. We’ll see where it goes.
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3:50 p.m. OK, here’s just where I disagree with coaches. It’s fourth down and five from the San Diego 45 yard line, Chiefs down a touchdown and there is less than five minutes left in the game. The Chiefs punted. I just don’t get it, I don’t. You are 1-8. There is absolutely nothing to lose. You aren’t going to get much more than 30 yards in field position — and that’s at most.
I don’t get it. Maybe it will work. The Chiefs just got a sack and look like they will get the ball back. But I still don’t get it.
* * *
3:40 p.m. Rivers just threw a touchdown pass to give the Chargers a 20-13 lead. The cannon fired. The Chargers are going to win this game, I suspect, but based on what I’ve seen they might want tone down their expectations around here. And, hey, there is still 6:55 left … you never want to give Tyler Thigpen that much time. Depending on who “you” are.
* * *
3:21 p.m. Another interception thrown by Phillip Rivers — this time it looked like Chiefs defensive lineman Tank Tyler got a piece of Rivers’ arm as he threw. That in itself is news — do you know how many sacks the Chiefs have this year? Um, that would be four. As in: 4.0.
* * *
2:25 p.m. Phillip Rivers must be reading the blog … he just threw one of the worst interceptions imaginable, one of those “Oh, I didn’t know they were playing with SAFETIES — that’s not FAIR!” interceptions.
The Chiefs promptly follow with one of those things that drive me absolutely insane … they got the ball with about a minute and a half left and three timeouts. They run the ball, a clear indication that they are trying to run out the clock and go into half leading. OK, I don’t agree with it but it’s a plan. THEN, though, after letting the clock run down, they throw the ball and get first down and quickly call a timeout. So now, apparently, they’re going to try and score. Then on first down nobody’s open so Tyler Thigpen runs out of bounds, and the Chiefs are back trying to run out the clock. I mean, make up your mind, show some commitment.
* * *
2:08 p.m.: Another horribly ill-advised pass by San Diego’s Phillip Rivers, another Chargers field goal, another firing of the cannon. Another thing they do in San Diego is play the “San Diego Super Chargers” song after every score.
The key lyrics:
San Diego Super Chargers!
San Diego Chargers!
San Diego Super Chargers!
San Diego Chargers!
Charge!
We’re coming your way,
We’re gonna dazzle you with our super play.
The time has come
You know we’re shooting for nu-u-u-mber one.
With thunderbolts and lightning
We’ll light up the sky,
We’ll give it all we’ve got, and more
With the Super Charger try!
The Super Charger try. Yeah.
* * *
1:48 p.m.: And the Chargers score a field goal — the cannon goes off. You know, I keep hearing how good Chargers quarterback Phillip Rivers is. And on television he looks great. But every time I see him actually play, he’s brutal. He just missed a wide open receiver on third down. I guess there are some athletes like that … who for whatever reason are either much better or much worse than normal when you see them. Maybe that’s a blog post later.
* * *
1:45 p.m.: Chiefs lead Chargers 7-0. The Tyler Thigpen Experience still seems to be working well. And the cannon has not gone off yet.
* * *
1:07 p.m.: They have a cannon here in San Diego that they fire every time the Chargers score. I have nothing personal against the Chargers. But I HATE that cannon and so hope they never score.
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11:48 a.m.: So, I have to admit that I am enjoying the fact that the Detroit Lions are about to go 0-9 WAY more than I probably should. The reason for this is that my good friend Michael Rosenberg, Detroit Free Press columnist extraordinaire, was absolutely mocking me early in the year by saying that Chiefs would go winless and that I would be stuck chasing them around the country. You know, like I haven’t had to watch ENOUGH bad sports in Kansas City.
And now … yeah, it’s Rosey chasing the winless team around the country.
It reminds me of one my favorite media stories: This was before the Opening Ceremonies in Atlanta and we were discussing who might light the torch. And we somehow determined that it would probably be the great hurdler Edwin Moses. The reason we decided this, I think, is because the equally great Dayton columnist Tom Archdeacon was in our group, and basically we were busting his chops. Moses is from Dayton.
“Oh yeah, Arch, it’s going to be Edwin Moses, you better get ready. You’re going to have to write a huge story about Edwin Moses tonight on deadline. You better get ready.â€
Arch looked a bit ashen, to be honest with you. It’s hard to imagine a tougher column to write than having to throw together a major, front page thing about Edwin Moses on about a six minute deadline. Then you would have to rewrite it. And rewrite it again. And again. The group, seeing that Arch looked genuinely worried, busted his chops even harder. And, as I remember it, the guy who was loudest and most passionate in the ribbing was current ESPN media-mogul Pat Forde. He was working for the Louisville Courier-Journal then, and he was just going on and on about it: “Oh yeah, Arch. What’s your deadline? 11:15? I’d say that Edwin Moses will run out there at about 11:13.†He was relishing Arch’s worry way, way, way, too much.
You know what’s coming of course. That night, Edwin Moses did participate in the torch-lighting ceremony. But you will note he did not light the torch. He was a flag bearer. No, the torch went from Evander Holyfield to Janet Evans and then we watched as Janet Evans took the torch to a trembling presence up at the top. … That trembling presence was, of course, Muhammad Ali.
Yeah, that would be Louisville’s Muhammad Ali.
At 3 a.m., after writing and re-writing his story about 20 times, Pat Forde made a call to a friend and shouted into the phone: “I just got screwed worse than any writer in the entire world.â€
Justice, that’s what it was. Kind of like Detroit’s soon to be 0-9 record.
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10:13 a.m.: Take a look at this …
2005: .388 OBP, 46 homers
2005: .387 OBP, 40 homers
2006: .365 OBP, 40 homers
2007: .386 OBP, 40 homers
2008: .386 OBP, 40 homers
That would be Adam Dunn. I don’t know if he likes baseball at all but he sure seems pretty consistent about it.
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10:09 a.m.: OK, so how about this. I’m in San Diego, of course, and my buddy Pop Warner just texted me and said that since I have to stay out West for work stuff tomorrow, he can get us tickets to go see a conversation between Dave Eggers and John Hodgeman, and maybe an invitation to meet Eggers afterward. I have to do that, right? It’s probably too late for a poll on it but … I mean I have to do that, right?
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10 a.m.: Wow, I’m noticing some serious cockiness in the San Diego papers before the Chiefs-Chargers game. Headline in The San Diego Union-Tribune: “Ripe for the kicking?†And there’s a column and an analysis basically demanding that the Chargers kick the living hell out of the Chiefs. I suspect that will happen — the Chiefs stinkiosity* is not a state secret — but hey, you know, the Chargers are pretty lousy too, they are coached by freaking Norv Turner, they gave up a billion points to the Saints last week. I mean there’s just something about a bad team acting like they’re not bad that is really irritating. At least the people around the Chiefs know their place.
*I remember there was this show once — I think it was that Kirk Cameron* show — where a high school girl wrote this article for the school paper, only she peppered it with all sorts of big words and high-fallutin’ phrases. The teacher said “This stinks.†And when she protested, he said, “Oh, I forgot who I was talking to. This paper perpetuates is replete in stinkiosity.†I always liked that. (Thanks to brilliant reader Matt for the correction).
**I guess Kirk Cameron is now a Christian Evangelist who has a daily radio show. Man, the things you learn from Wikipedia.
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Joe, I think you should read this just for the ridiculousness of the quotes from Mike Jacobs.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals/story/881896.html
“…my on base percentage is going to be .320″
Oh, and I think there is a “DAN” who comments here much more frequently than I do. So just to clarify, the DAN above (which is also me), is the less frequent commenter. Not that it really matters at all.
I’ve read your posts for quite some time now, but haven’t commented, until now. I think you have to take the chance to meet Eggers, hell, I would try to get out there tomorrow from KC if I had the chance to meet him
I typed a note to the non-Jon Heyman baseball guy at SI.com (Donovan?? I forget, he’s not nearly as informative as Jon–lol) And I asked out loud why some AL team (Tigers? Orioles?) wouldn’t just pony up the non-Mammy-like money for 5 years and plug Dunn into the DH spot and let him do what he does best, while keeping him out of the field, so he won’t be doing what he doesn’t do so well…
You have to go. No poll is necessary. I envy you greatly.
Kirk Cameron is also in the straight-to-DVD movie versions of the “Left Behind” book series by the infamous Tim LaHaye.
but really, also try to meet john hodgeman, too.
Too bad Dunn’s played in hitter’s parks his whole career and gives back a bunch of the runs he produces at the plate by his butchery in the field…. he’d be a nice fit as a DH for the Yankees though
If you meet Hodgeman, bring a picture of yourself as a hobo. What should your hobo name be. The Poz?
If you’re there for Hodgman and Eggers, I hope Jonathan Coulton performs. You’ll love him. Request “Skullcrusher Mountain” so he thinks you know his work.
I think he said the paper was “replete with stinkiosity”. For some reason, that line always stuck in my head as well.
You ever notice how some really terrible shows have funny or smart lines in them from time to time? The problem is watching the other 99.8% of the lines. I remember watching a show with Suzanne Somers in it where the daughter did what I thought was a pretty funny riff on Adam and Eve.
In those instances I always imagine the writer sitting in a meeting and going, “What? We’re going to use that? But that’s actually funny!”
Is there anyone the Lions can beat this season? Maybe the Saints in Week 16. Probably not.
To Aaron B.
Dunn’s career OPS away from home is .871. His career OPS is .899. He is hardly a product of a home-field advantage. I would gladly take him in KC’s outfield with that type of production.
But you would probably take Ross Gload. That’s OK.
At least if Hodgeman is in SD we know he won’t be stinking up the Daily Show tomorrow night. That’s good news.
Would be cool to hear Eggers though.
Another dumb aspect of the Royals’ first base/Mike Jacobs deal is that if the Royals were so concerned that Kila was a fluke, WHY DIDN’T THEY PLAY HIM MORE IN SEPTEMBER? Instead they played 29-year-old Shealy a lot to gauge his play, even though he is a right handed bat just like 22-year-old Butler.
Shealy plays really well over the course of 3-4 weeks, but they still sign Jacobs.
In Steptember, they don’t play the left-handed Kila, who’s 24, because they don’t want him to experience any “failure.”
They want to trade 22-year-old Butler, because they’re impatient with him, because he struggled some after experiencing failure, and nobody seems how to handle an idiot savant who’s not good with dealing with failure.
Alex Gordon is going to be 25 in February, and has experienced a lot of failure in the majors ensuring his free agency period is coming sooner rather than later.
Yeah, Dayton is doing bang up job this off season, after telling you OBP! OBP! 10,000 times in your column at the end of the season.
No wonder Fantasy Baseball is so popular, we ARE all just as smart as the geniuses running the professional teams.
I just switched to this game (after watching Tennessee-Chicago thanks to TiVo), but you know, Tyler Thigpen does not look half bad. Better than Rex Grossman, for whatever that’s worth. I certainly agree with Joe that I have no idea what Herm Edwards is doing.
Whoa. The announcer just said, “This Chiefs team has looked bad at times this season.” You think?
Whoa whoa whoa James. Let’s slow down there before you label me a Gloadaphile. I mean, I’m a Giants fan, but I wouldn’t even take on Gload.
Dunn’s H/A lines for his career
Home: .251/.389/.540
Away: .242/.373/.497
That’s not an insignificant difference. I’m not saying he’s a complete product of his home park, but there is a noticeable gap there.
Furthermore, he’s horrid in the field. Converting Plus/Minus into runs:
2006: -15.2 runs
2007: -22.4 runs
2008: -21.6 runs
Dunn would improve nearly every team in baseball, yes, but I don’t think I’d want him in my outfield. DH is the best place for him.
And that’s my theoretical outfield, not the 2009 Giants outfield
Time 8:56 p.m. Central Time.
No more updates because the Chiefs stink.
I gotta give Herm props for going for 2 there. As Joe said, you’re 1-8. Why not go for the win?
But knowing Herm’s innate conservatism — I doubt we ever see him do that again. Pity, really.
“Why not go for the win?”
You play … to win … the game.
What was the call on the 2-pointer? Run or pass?
Which two-pointer? The pointless one early in the game or the one at the end when they badly needed it?
Never mind. NFL.com earlier in the day said the failed PAT was a Thigpen pass that failed. They were wrong.
The call on the 2 pointer was a pass.
I just got done watching a clip on ESPN.com where Tom Jackson rips Herm pretty good for the call. Tom, did you watch the game?? San Diego marched up and down the field all day against an injury-riddled Chiefs defense. If the Chiefs lose the coin toss in OT, it’s almost a guaranteed loss. Why not take control of your own destiny and go for the win? Good call Herm!
I’m enjoying the fact that Joe has to cover crappy teams.
2 point make is 40-50%
Then you have to believe, that your chances in OT are significantly below that to go for it.
50/50 coin flip, if you get the ball, let’s say 40% chance the Chiefs score, if Chargers get it, 60%.
Then is 40-50% > .5*.4+.5*(1-.6) = .4 or 40% (No.)
I think Herm instinctively called this one correctly, because the Chiefs did struggle in the 2nd half, and SD was clearly moving the ball a lot better. If you believe SD’s percentage is higher than 60% to score then you are really in favor of the 2.
I think I did that right, it might be a little too simple, and I’m tired and sick, but it gets the simple point across that at worst, the decision was a coin flip.
Directly related to Dunn’s OBP: as far as I can tell, Dunn is only the second player in history to have five seasons of hitting 40 homers and walking 100 times. The other player is Bonds. Obviously 40hr-100bb is an arbitrary line, and it’s an incomplete picture of an offensive player, but that’s still amazing–the Babe, Gehrig, Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Griffey, McGwire, A-Rod, Puljos, none of those guys have done what Dunn has done.
My comment above omitted the important part of five seasons _consecutively_. Bonds and Dunn are the only two players to have ever had 5 seasons in a row with 40 homers and 100 walks.
on Herm going for 2: it was an awesome call, a great call, and the only possible call to make – defense was beat up, no guarantees of even getting the ball in OT much less driving down for a possible FG attempt, team is tired and injury-depleted, plus making that call shows confidence in the team (offense) which is precisely what they need to build on for the future
and by showing that confidence in Thigpen and the rest of the offense, it will come back to pay dividends in time, those players will be hustling their tails off for Herm the rest of the year and beyond – considering how truly awful the team was early in the season, they’ve come a long, long way already – rebuilding isn’t pretty (especially in this case) but it’s finally starting to pay off and show tangible results, even with a team held together by duct tape, bubblegum and baling wire
Morgan Freeman is the ONLY logical choice to portray Buck O’Neil in the upcoming movie, based on Joe’s book (there WILL be a movie, right?)
Orlando Hudson, Free Agent (Arizona Diamondbacks, 2B)
only 31 this winter, last 3 yrs stats
AVG OBP SLG OPS
.287 .354 .454 .809
.294 .376 .441 .817
.305 .367 .450 .817
CC Sabithia, LHP
Manny Ramirez, OF
Package Jacobs with Guillen for a few dozen new bats, cash and a hamburger to be named later and team is set for the next few years, or until Manny decides to be Manny
hey, it’s a thought
More impressive than Cameron’s star turn in the “Left Behind” series, is his ridiculous work in “Way of the Master”. Street-side conversion attempts. Flawed attempts at rationalizing VERY evangelical standpoints and literal interpretation of Old Testament verses. Comic gold.
As for Eggers, can someone make an effort to explain what the ridiculous frisbee-on-the-beach ending of “A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius” meant? I’m convinced it was a purposely obtuse ending without any meaning to bail himself out at the end of a book without a natural end. I’ve yet to find anyone who can give me any different take on the end. Please enlighten me.
“It’s fourth down and five from the San Diego 45 yard line, Chiefs down a touchdown and there is less than five minutes left in the game. The Chiefs punted. I just don’t get it, I don’t. You are 1-8. There is absolutely nothing to lose.”
As this ocurred, I thought, “Edwards is gonna kick this ball back to us. Posnanski has gotta be tearing his hair (metaphorical, of course) out.”
Still, my Chargers were damned lucky to escape with a win. We don’t look anything like the Super Bowl-bound squad I’d expected to see this season.
All the “coin flip” talk is silly because it doesn’t take into account 1) that the Chiefs were playing people out of the stands on defense, and 2) they had already missed a PAT because of their new long-snapper. Don’t both of those items skew the odds somewhat?
Even though Joe dismissed it, though, I think questioning the play itself is valid, if only because they ran a bootleg. They’d run a bootleg 3 plays earlier on first down and San Diego sniffed it out immediately. Why was it suddenly going to work there on the two point try?
This may sound crazy but if the Angels don’t get Teixera then they should sign Dunn and have him as the DH. He would provide the serious power threat they need while still geting on base at a great rate.
I am also inclined to agree with Buster Olney when he says the GIants should sign C.C. Sabathia mainly because I am a Giants fan and I think we can win the NL West with the best rotation in Baseball (Sabathia, Lincecum, Cain, Zito, Sanchez). Maybe even try to trad Sanchez for a bat like Prince Fielder.
Joe – I like the “tidbits” idea, but is it possible to have the entries sort from oldest to newest? I.e., when I open the link, I see the 10 AM entry at the top, and then scroll down to see the later entries?
Gonzalez was held. The play call is perfectly fine and the Chiefs win if the Chargers play legal defense.
Echo what Jon said, chronological order would be preferable. if possible.
I didn’t get a chance to log in and participate on Sunday, so I just read the whole post:
I feel like I just watched the backwards episode of Seinfeld…
Are you sure we didn’t start Franklin Delano Romanowski at LB??
Because it’s funny when somone lives a moral life and claims and lives Christian values. To think someone would be evangelistic in this day and age and think that God meant what He said in the Old Testament and that people are to take it literally. How laughable, how sad. Kirk Cameron is such an idiot. Doesn’t he know that something came from nothing and you can have a design without a designer?
(I don’t blame you Joe, your comment was just surprise not ridicule.)
I totally disagree about questioning the play call on the 2 point conversion.
Mike is dead on — the bootleg only works if there is a legitimate threat you will run the ball. Otherwise, your QB boots directly into a defender and has to rush a throw, and that’s exactly what happened.
We hadn’t run the ball well all game, and it was obvious we weren’t going to run it there, so what’s the point of the run fake? I don’t think that’s an unfair question or criticism.
Yeah, I disagree with you pretty strongly here Joe (a rarity).
If you don’t like the playcall I don’t see what’s wrong with criticizing it. I’m a Vikigns fan, I’ve been doing it all my life.
Running a play that most astute fans could’ve called a mistake before they even ran it certainly calls for criticism.
I like the call of going for it, why not? What do the Chiefs have to lose? But at least give yourself a chance.
Having been a Jet fan for years and seen Herm go through his on the job training in areas such as clock management, I have to agree with the Poz. Why are you punting with 4 minutes to go? If you go for 2 because your defense is shot and the guys have given their all, I am guessing that those last 4 minutes didn’t make all the difference. Having seen the finish to the Tampa game too, it is typical Herm. Probably the nicest guy in the world and his players never quit but he needs to be on tv instead.
Drinking game: take a drink every time an announcer says during a Herm Edwards coached game…..”his players never quit” or “that’s why you have to love Herm”. That seems to be the excuse for every bad thing he does.
So Soto just won the NL ROY, which is all well and good, but three of the voters chose Volquez for second place. As mlb.com helpfully points out, Volquez is not elligible to win this award. I don’t know about anybody else, but I think we might want to re-evaluate the credentials of those three voters.
Marty,
Why the hell do you care what Kirk Cameron believes?? The guy could believe that Christ is coming back on a spaceship made of salami, and I wouldn’t give a rat’s…nor do I give a rat’s if he thinks I’m going straight to Hell.
Because Marty Winn is having problems with his syntax and grammar. To think someone can draw conclusions about someone’s religioin beliefs to be sad and laughable is such an idiot.
Try not typing like Emmitt Smith talks.
This is a sports blog. Let’s keep it that way.
I read the last comment quickly and at first thought it said, “Try not typing like Elliott Smith talks.”
Not about this post but about the poll:
How is it possible that The Flintstones are three times as popular as The Jetsons? The Jetsons had flying cars with bubble domes. Bubble domes, for crying out loud! The Flintstones had cars that you moved with your feet. I still do that today: I call it walking. If you had to walk your car everywhere you went, wouldn’t you just eventually say “Enough” and leave it behind?
Plus, in the future, your robot maid picks up your dog’s poop. Who do you think was cleaning up after Dino’s little gifts? Come on!
“This may sound crazy but if the Angels don’t get Teixera then they should sign Dunn and have him as the DH.”
As scintillating as this idea is (read: I LOVE it) I fear that once Mike Scoscia and Mickey Hatcher get their hands on Dunn, not only will they make him bunt, but they will try and adjust his approach at the plate – which of course will make him like baseball even less.
Not to mention they’d probably try and put him at third base or something equally ridiculous.
“No one in the history of the game has seen more bad baseball than Herb Score,” Joe Tait once said
I thought that was you Joe? Say it ain’t so??
Would be nice if you did an article about the recently passed comentator
i instantly thought of you when the chiefs went for 2 to win it, and completely agreed with the decision.
maybe he read your last chiefs post?
Hey Joe, unless you’re planning to dispense tips for being more productive with your Macintosh computer, I’d look for a different TidBITS logo than the one the Engsts have used forever. Seriously, they’ve had that newsletter going longer than I’ve had a career.
I understand your criticism of play call criticism. I’m a Missouri football fan, I’ve witnessed more play calling criticism than most. Why is there no fullback!? How can you pass on 4th and 1?!? I hate naked play calling criticism.
But the play call in the Chief’s situation is really, really bad, and not limited to that specific situation. In this situation (as well as any fourth down), football teams are forced into binary mode: Get the yards or lose. The semi-rollout designed for 1 (or, at most, 2) players in this situation is horrific. First, the play is designed to create space by play action. But in 4th down-type situation, that play action is much, much less likely to work. So the play is less likely to be open and effective, especially with 2+ yards to go. Second, the play limits the QBs options to 1 or 2 receivers. If both are covered, the play necessarily fails. On 1st, 2nd or even 3rd and short, that is acceptable, because throwing the ball away and trying again is a reasonable tactical alternative.
The play call (and, to be sure, Herm Edwards is far from the first to call this play in a 4th down-type situation) indicates a lack of understanding of the situation, which seems par for the course.
Geoff, I don’t think Jonathan Sanchez is going to return Prince Fielder. I also think that the Giants need to stop chasing mediocrity and realize they are in full rebuilding mode. Last year the Giants scored the 2nd fewest runs in MLB. There is a limit at which preventing runs has diminishing returns if you simply can’t score.
But, as I own Sabathia for $1 in an NL only keeper league, my prayers are with you.