Unbelievable
Posted: October 16th, 2008 | Filed under: Baseball | 78 Comments »
I had another post more or less ready to go, a congratulatory post to the Tampa Bay Rays. It dies in the same trash bin where my Yankees win the 2001 World Series column, my Memphis wins the national championship column and my Greg Norman wins the Masters column now have book club meetings.
So this post won’t be long. That was unbelievable. That’s all. I just watched the Red Sox come back from 7-0 in the final innings of an elimination playoff game. And I never saw anything quite like it. Yes, the Red Sox have had all those incredible moments, of course. Came back from three games down against the Yankees. Came back from three to one against the Tribe. But this was different, this was ridiculous … you know what this was like? This was like something out of a kid’s dream. Do you remember being a kid and concocting these fantastic scenarios when your team was losing, these preposterous comebacks that boggled logic and the space-time continuum. I can remember, clear as Fiji Water, watching the Cleveland Browns trailing by 17 in the fourth quarter and thinking, “OK, if they score a touchdown here, onside kick, get it, score another touchdown, onside kick again, get the ball again, then all they would need is a field goal.”
So it was on a Thursday in Boston.
If they can just get a two-out, two-strike RBI single from Pedroia …
And if they can get a three-run homer from Papi …
And if they can get a two-run home from J.D. Drew …
And if they can get a 254-pitch at-bat from Coco Crisp and then, with a runner at second, let him hit a hard single to Tampa outfielder Gabe Gross who then uncorks the worst playoff outfield throw since Barry …
Then all they will need, in the bottom of the ninth, is a terrible throw from Evan Longoria and a line shot game winner by J.D. Drew over Gross’ head.*
*In between there was an intentional walk to Jason Bay. I bring this up because announcer Chip Caray called the move “unconventional.” I sat there open mouthed. First base was open. Bay is a right-handed hitter. J.D. Drew, a lefty, was on deck. J.P. Morgan Chase Thurston Howell, a lefty, was pitching. I literally thought, “I have never seen a MORE conventional move in my life. I can’t believe he said that.” It reminded me of a story I once read where the writer made a very big deal out of the fact that the subject of the story, when he rented a car, put his rental agreement in the glove compartment. I think the point was that the guy was really organized or something. And I thought, “Doesn’t EVERY LIVING HUMAN put the rental agreement in the glove compartment?” Same thing here. Caray explained though that it was unconventional because Drew was like 4 for 7 against J.P. I thought that was absurd. But then Drew absolutely mashed a ball off Howell, so maybe Caray was right all along. I mean, maybe not. But maybe.
The insta-poll question after this crazy game is this: Can the Rays recover? And it leads to the bigger question: Is there even such thing as momentum in baseball? I don’t know the answer to either of those questions. My gut tells me that the Red Sox probably feel pretty invincible now, and even though Josh Beckett hasn’t looked like his post-season self, you know what that guy can do in October. And the Red Sox certainly would feel good with Jon Lester in Game 7. It’s hard, at least in my mind, to think that the most dramatic comeback in postseason history will not carry over.
But my memory reminds me: I was there in St. Louis two days after Albert Pujols hit the most staggering home run imaginable off Brad Lidge. And I watched Houston’s Roy Oswalt stick it in the Cardinals ear. It wasn’t just that St. Louis lost the game … the Cardinals were never even in it. And I told myself then to not forget that momentum in baseball is probably 85% myth. And realistically, the Rays have been close to invincible at home, they still have the destiny thing going, and they’re too young to know any better anyway.
In other words, I don’t know what to expect. Gut says Red Sox. Mind says Rays. Heart says I shouldn’t have had that Mexican food. And eyes say its bedtime. God, I love baseball.
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Ugh. I’m a lifer Sox fan. I was at the Beckett LDS game and the 13-4 slaughter off Wakefield and Company. I stayed until the end of the LDS loss (thereby having to take the 4am commuter rail train home. The train station closes from 2 to 3:30am for cleaning and that is not the safest neighborhood at that time of night. And yes, I know about the all night diner around the corner, but still… now I feel like Joe with this long aside. I should probably mention that I’m writing this book…) and stayed until the 9th inning of the 13-4 before giving up and leaving to catch the 11:50pm train home.
I shut this game off at 7-0 to watch a movie. A mediocre movie, at that. Sigh.
I can’t believe the 7th inning shot of people leaving that game. It reminded me of an observation Mike Tirico made earlier this week on his radio show (with SVP).
Never noticed it previously, but in the Kirk Gibson HR, there’s a person’s car lights turning on in left field, who you’d assume just left the ball park.
On another note– that Sox game, I can’t believe what I just saw.
I might be in the minority here, but with the recent explosion of success of Boston sports teams, combined with my support of a small-market baseball team, I haven’t disliked a team more than this year’s Red Sox since the heyday of the Yankees dynasty. And dare I say it, I think I might even dislike this team more than Jeter and Mariano’s Yankees.
Either way, it has gotten to the point, where I could watch something this incredible, and still feel bitter, jaded and upset that the Red Sox won. It’s the ulimate spoiler of what could have been a great moment in sports.
I actually did say “That is literally the most conventional move you can make — force at any base and a lefty-lefty matchup” in response to Chip Caray. I’m glad someone else was as boggled by that as I was.
Unconventional would have been saying, “I have a base open, and a theoretically unfavourable righty-lefty matchup, but damn does J.D. Drew seem to hit J.P. Howell well. I should just have him throw to Bay.”
You know the Frank Rich game, when the Bills came back from like 30 points down in the second half? I turned that off.
There was a Bulls game back in the early 1990’s, when they were down by 20 entering the fourth quarter. I turned that one off.
I didn’t see the end of this one, either. Heck, I didn’t even turn it on in the first place, and the scores I saw online did nothing to convince me it wouldn’t be painful to watch. And then, afer the middle of seventh, I stopped looked at updates.
Who sucks?
(Of course, it’s hard to get used to the idea that my Red Sox can actually win anything. Intellectually, I know about recent history. But in my heart I have confidence that they will lose, will lose late and will lose painfully.)
You still might need the Tampa Bay congratulatory post.
Tampa will take the LCS.
I watched all of the ‘04 LCS games. I watched all of the ‘07 LCS games. The Sox just looked so LOST out there since Game 1, it was fairly pathetic. The Rays were young and hot and cocky and the Sox were banged up and flat. Hopefully this turns it around and the Josh Beckett of old returns and we can take it to seven games.
I turned this game off in the seventh to watch South Park and then the Office. As I was watching SP, I thought “maybe I should switch back to the game to see what’s happening,” but of course, I didn’t want to stop the DVR.
I’m not emotionally invested in this series, but I really wish I would have stopped the DVR. At least it’s not as bad as the time my father and I left the Packers-Vikings game when Antonio Freeman made that ridiculous catch in OT on MNF.
What might help the Rays as much as the shift back to the Trop is that they have a day to get it out of their systems before playing the next game. This schedule, btw, is stupid — so many off-days and whatnot make it hard for any team (and any series) to really build momentum.
Well I stopped watching the game in the 6th inning. Fangraphs told me that the Rays had about a 95% chance of winning. How often does the 5% chance actually happen? It happens about 1 in 20 times. This was that time.
In the 7th the Red Sox had only a 0.6% chance of winning. How often does 0.6% happen? It happens about 1 in 167 times. This was that time.
Now is there momentum in baseball? Nope.* Does it sometime seem like there is momentum? Of course.
*I will change my mind when quantitative research shows me otherwise. Anecdotes about momentum will not do the trick.
The Rays have about a 3 in 4 chance of winning the series. If the Rays do go on to win then everybody will dismiss the momentum story in one way or another. On the other hand, if the Red Sox win . . . we’ll all have to listen to a bunch of crap.
I told my wife I’d watch this if the Sox were losing, since TV takes all my attention and the internet audio takes less, so at 5-0, I turned it on, right about when Papelbon came in, and sat through some of the most morose Sox at-bats since Jack Clark’s days. Wow. I think Ortiz is a guess hitter at this point, but he guessed with authority in the seventh. That ball was mashed.
I think there CAN be momentum, but not in the “mystical” way some people like to claim. I think it’s simply a case of “Hey, you know what, I’m really pumped up after that huge win” and that gives them just a little extra oomph. I don’t play professional sports on any level and haven’t in awhile, but I’m a competitive person…I know when I’m out throwing horseshoes, or playing whiffleball, when I make a huge comeback of some sort, I’m pumped up and I guess “pushing myself harder”. I hate to say it like that as it implies I wasn’t trying my hardest before, but it’s just a human reaction. Meanwhile when there’s a huge letdown, that can have an effect too. Maybe next time out Grant Balfour gets on that mound and can’t stop thinking about how they beat him up last time, and he ends up overthinking things. It’s just speculation and it might mean nothing…momentum might not be the right word. But I do think there CAN be something to it, but it’s not always going to happen.
And maybe it just feels that way. I’m a Yankee fan and I know in 2004, I thought the Yanks would win Game 4. Then I figured well, Game 5. Game 6? Yikes, it’ll be tough but the Yanks can pull out a win. By Game 7 I didn’t even want to watch. I KNEW, just KNEW, that the Yankees were not winning that game. I actually for the most part agree with you Joel. But sometimes I can’t help but watch and see a team that looks and, more importantly, PLAYS defeated going up against a team that looks, and more importantly, PLAYS invincible, after the latter team gets a big win. This isn’t at that point right now, because while the Sox probably will go into Game 6 feeling invincible, that doesn’t mean the Rays will feel defeated by this…they may just shrug it off, go out and win. I think they’ll still pull it out…I expected the Rays to lose this game going in but win one of the final two. But we’ll see.
My gut says game six says it all. If the Sox win game six, it’s Red Sox all the way. Right now, well, the Rays came into game five thinking “it’s all ours baby”. And they built a seven run lead through six innings. And they then promptly lost the game. That’s a buzzkill, to say the least. Perhaps they can recover from this mentally, perhaps not. Game six is the key. f the Rays win, obviously, they’re in. If they lose game six, they’re done. There is no game seven for the Rays. It’s six or nothing, at this point. If this series goes seven games, it’s a Red Sox series. And I truly believe the AL team wins the World Series this year, so we’re watching the eventual World Champs here.
It’s going to be fun to watch, for certain. But to give up a 7-0 lead… man that’s tough on a young team that’s just learning how to win.
By the way, screw the Yankees. With a red hot poker. Robby Benson would understand.
Isn’t the axiom that “momentum in baseball is the next day’s starter?”
I had no idea that a team could blow a 7 run lead in an LCS game. Or least no idea a team other than the Royals could blow a 7 run lead in an LCS game.
On second thought, for the Royals to blow a 7 run lead in an LCS game, the Royals would have to be in the LCS. So I return to my original premise that what happend last night was “inconceivable”.
The Rays will have to be made of pretty tough stuff to get off the deck after this one. Maybe momentum really is the next day’s starting pitcher, but I like Boston’s chances a lot more than I like Tampa’s.
Re: Conventional moves
I always think this when car commercials highlight anti-lock brakes or power steering as a feature (especially power steering). When was the last time these were not standard features on a car? 1995? 1987? Might as well highlight the windshield and odometer while you’re at it.
Re: Series
With an ailing and ineffective Beckett going Saturday, I think Tampa still takes the series. But wow, did it just get interesting.
As a die hard Red Sox fan for 40 years who was just a bit too young to remember 1967, I can understand how people are sick to death of my team. This current Sox team reminds me of the Yankees in the late 90’s, a team I hated like no other. I hated that they always found a way, when the other team always made the critical mistake, when the umpire blew yet another big call in the their favor. Unfortunately, this Sox team feels more like the aging 2001 Yankees trying to hang on for one more championship with their core, and like that team I think the Sox fall short in Tampa. But any way you slice it, the last 5 years make the first 35 well worth it.
You KC Royals fans can take solace in knowing that I used to hate the Royals because of how good they were in the late 70s and early 80s, with their little skinny track stars running my Sox into the ground on that cheating carpet they called a field while wearing their awful powder blue uniforms…
Dan Wheeler last night looked like the Dan Wheeler Astros fans had to endure when he was the closer during part of the 2007 season. His plus 5 era pointed to our pain. Last night we just knew he could blow it, and he did.
Normally, I wouldn’t put much stock in baseball mo,’ but, the first thing that popped into my mind was that Cards series in ‘05…however the second thing I thought of was the Sox/Yanks from the year before, and the way that the Yankees didn’t stand a chance once they got back to The Stadium.
Normally, I wouldn’t put much stock in a manager’s post-game comments, but after watching his, I think it’s hard to believe that Joe Maddon wouldn’t be able to part the Red Sea.
Rays in six.
Thought of the Pujols-Lidge game right away too. Way too many people out there saying the Rays are now on the ropes.
No matter what happens, that was the most entertained I’ve ever been by a baseball game without being there in person.
After the 6th I switched to the radio, knowing that Joe Castiglione’s tone would be much more suited to my mood than listening to Chip and Buck tell me how quiet the crowd was for another hour and a half. I think listening to it on the radio made it even better.
I don’t really believe in momentum in sports. Well, I guess I believe in it in the abstract, but I think it rates right up there with how cold the gatorade is in terms of importance for determining outcome. After watching the Rays take us to the woodshed for 25 straight innings and Josh Beckett get all modest about his “greatest postseason pitcher of his generation tag”, I still don’t feel nearly as confident as I did down 3-2 last year.
That said, I think the baseball gods have now finished punishing David Ortiz for saying the Rays looked scared after game 1. Hopefully, they’ll now direct their wrath towards a pitcher who somehow earned the nickname “Big Game James” without ever actually winning (or even participating in) a big game in his life.
Conventional would be pinch hitting Juan Castro for Josh Hamilton because Castro was 1-for-2 against the guy on the mound, as Jerry Narron did in 2007 (Castro K’d on 3 pitches I believe). Clearly conventional.
Ed, you just described one of the plot points to “Fever Pitch”.
Another game I remember that would have killed Joe had it happened when he was a kid was the Bears/Browns in 2001. The Browns were up by 16 with under a minute left. CBS even put an updated graphic on the screen of the new standings that reflected a Browns win and a Bears loss. But then the Bears marched down the field and got a touchdown and a 2-point conversion to cut it to 8. They recovered the on-side kick and had time for 1 more play. Of course the hail mary bounced off 8 guys and into the arms of a Bears player (their RB I think). They made the 2-point conversion with no time left, then got a defensive TD off an INT in overtime.
Re: “unconventional” IBB … yeah, it probably was the most conventional thing to do, but not the most intelligent. It’s not so much that Drew was 4-7 vs. Howell; it’s that he has virtually identical splits against righties and lefties. For the regular season, he OPS-d .926 against one and .927 against the other (plus a .284 AVG vs lefties). Meanwhile, Bay (a righty) OPS-d ‘just’ .852 vs lefties with a .252 AVG vs lefties. So if you’re going by the numbers, that probably wasn’t the wisest move with two out. That SHOULD be more of the question – intelligent move vs. not – instead of the conventional/unconventional one.
Greg, what about Howell’s splits? He’s marginally better versus lefties
I was at Game Six of the 1975 World Series in Fenway. I had a standing room ticket and wound up with nice seats because so many Red Sox fans gave up when Reds went up 6-3 in the seventh inning. Then Bernie Carbo hit a three-run homer and I stayed until the end, Fisk’s solo shot in the 12th. One of the most exciting finishes ever. NEVER leave a baseball game early. Especially in Fenway. Yogi Berra was completely right – It Ain’t Over Til It’s Over!
Mo Dickens, Kansas City, Mo
[...] – Joe Posnanski had another post ready to go for when the Rays closed out the Sox in Game 5, but had to scrap it to write about how unbelievable Boston’s comeback was. (Joe Posnanski.com) [...]
I may as well come clean – this is all my fault.
I’m a living sports jinx, the Typhoid Mary of rooting for anything. It’s ME sinking the Mets year after year; ME who has sent the Islanders to hockey purgatory; ME who is destroying grammar itself in the attempt to describe how bad it is. That Giants win last year? Yeah – I was convinced they would blow it when Tampa scored easily to start the wild card game, then I was utterly convinced they’d get whunked by Dallas and Green Bay, and I was perversely interested to see if New England could actually go perfect. In a weird way (I swear I’m not making this up) I wanted the Pats to do it, to shut up insufferable Jets fans. Then I wanted them to crash the ‘72 Dolphins’ party and drink all of their champaign. (Can’t STAND that nonsense.) The only way my guys could pull it off was to convince me that they were doomed, DOOMED. (So finally I come around and pick them in my office pool to beat Cleveland on MNF… and viola, there’s the Eli we all know and love!)
Last night I’m reading a post from my co-blogger, who’s from South Jersey but lives in Tampa. I have the online game cast open in another window – Varitek batting in the seventh, down to his last strike. I write my buddy that he’s in the catbird seat, with his old team and his new team nine outs from playing for the Series.
I AM DANGEROUS and MUST BE STOPPED.
This series now reminds me of the 2001 World Series. The Yankees kept pulling miraculous victories out of their you-know-what, but ultimately lost the series. The Yanks at the time were winning with heart and grit, not necessarily talent. So it goes with the Red Sox this year. They showed a lot of heart, but the Rays are a bit more healthy and talented at this point. It speaks volumes that just to keep the series alive the Sox had to mount a record comeback. Because of this, I don’t see the Sox pulling this series out.
I am so tired right now. Conventional wisdom would of told me to take the day off. But here I am in my office about 2 miles from Fenway still shaking my head over last night. I may pull a George Costanza and take a nap under my desk soon.
The only thing that’s unbelievable is everyone’s reaction.
Momentum? Momentum is the next day’s starting pitcher.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a radio show to do.
I’m very excited to get to write this again:
How DID Chip Carey get that job?
oh yeah, that radio show is not safe for work, in case you’re as dumb as Terry Crowley and couldn’t figure that out
Has anyone else heard that just as the Red Sox angered the Baseball Gods by painting the World Series logo on the field before Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, perhaps the Rays have also jumped the gun a bit? I’ve been told that Tampa area Publix stores started selling Rays World Series baseballs before Game 5.
So there may be two things working against the Rays – the Sox sense that they’ve been there before, and the baseball Gods punishing them for jumping the gun.
In all seriousness, there are two hopes for Game 6:
That the bats have come alive
That Beckett, a la Pedro in 2009, can adjust to his diminished stuff by setting up the fastball with the offspeed stuff
If the pitchers duplicate their prior efforts, nothing will save them. But if the bats come alive, they’ve got a fighter’s chance even if Beckett stinks again. If the bats and Beckett are on, I like their chances to force Game 7 and we all know anything can happen then.
[...] Joe Posnanski said it best about last night’s Sox game: “This was like something out of a kid’s [...]
pedroia was quoted in the globe as shaking his head and saying “that was (exp) sick” as he walked to the shower.
i can’t think of a better way to describe it.
even if the sox lose the series, they have finished the year at fenway w/ another amazing game and left fans w/ a winter of good dreams. In addition, even if they lose, that comeback will still be the memory of the playoffs for pretty much everyone who loves baseball, am i right?
There was a great post on the Baseball Primer gamechatter that goes to the heart of the matter:
If you leave Fenway early, do they let you back in?
Instead of trying to get back in, these people should drown themselves in the Charles River.
The people who left early are quitters in life. They will never see a big comeback win — EVER. They will never be around when it happens. They’re insufferable losers.
I knew it was over when they showed a closeup of Wheeler in the 8th inning, ahead 7-4, and he had the worst case of Calvin Schiraldi Face I’ve seen since Schiraldi himself.
I remember watching game six of the 2002 world series, when the Giants seemingly had the Angels dead to rights. We were at my aunt and uncle’s house, and one of my uncles is a lifelong Giants fan, and I told him the Angels had a comeback in them. All during that game, I felt like the Angels had that run in them and were still in the game.
Last night, I was watching the game, I had exactly zero of that feeling. I thought a comeback was unlikely by the middle of the first inning. I wish I could claim to have sensed something in the air again – I thought I had the radar. There was nothing last night.
It was shocking.
Is there a way you can figure out where the Rays’ offensive performance this ALCS stands historically? Even with the loss, I have never seen an offense more locked in in my entire life. They make the 1927 Yankees look like the Royals. This is a team that was NINTH in the AL in runs scored and now are putting up 9-10 runs a game like it’s nothing! And they’re averaging something like a home run nearly every two innings! Has this ever happened before?
The game this reminded me of in spirit was game 5 of the 1999 NLCS, the grand single. I expect a barn burner in Tampa on Saturday and think the Rays will win it. However, if they don’t, I think the Sox win game 7.
To be honest, I only watched from the 7th inning on except for quick glances for the score earlier in the game. I saw the Rays had a 7-0 lead, figured it was safe, and then the Sox started getting base runners. I knew Papi was going to hit that home run, in fact, when it was still 7-0 I said to my wife that I would be super pissed if they came back and won. I just got that Royals feeling in the pit of my stomach telling me that the Rays were going to blow it. I feel like this is Boston’s series to lose now. They need to win 2, TB needs 1. Total mismatch. I still hope TB wins, I just don’t think they will. I will never be happier being wrong in my entire life.
I rush home from work just before 10:30p (got out a tad late) hopin’ to find the Rays leading late in the game. I get home and see it’s 7-0, top of the 7th. I’m like, “YES!”. A game sooner than I’d like, because I really feel it would be justice to have Tampa fans see their team win the pennant first hand, but hey, as a part time Yankee fan it certainly still felt like justice to see the Red Sox demolished in Fenway for an elimination game.
Then everything went wrong. 45 minutes later, the 7th inning was still going on. Like the energizer bunny. Like the terminator.
I’d been hearing for days about the Red Sox comebacks in ‘04 & ‘07 ALCS and I just kept thinking “guys, shut up, because this ain’t going to happen this time. The Sox just aren’t lookin’ like they’re capable of hitting Tampa.”
All of a sudden, Big Papi was resurrected as if Ted Williams touched him on the shoulder from the great beyond and said “it’s time”. At that point, it being 7-4, I did get a little worried, because 3 more runs would be very doable for the now pumped up Red Sox and their 35,000 fans (there were some Rays jerseys in the park last night).
Still, they needed 3 and the Rays bullpen doesn’t usually collapse 100%.
Before the 9th inning started, I began feelin’ this eerie sense like the kind you got watching those late 90’s games in Yankee Stadium when the Yanks just couldn’t die. Not that they wouldn’t… they couldn’t.
It crossed my mind how opposite the directions of the Yankees & Red Sox franchises have been since that ‘04 ALCS game 4. I hate to admit it, but it’s been as if the Red Sox stole more than second base that night. It’s been like they stole the “Yankee magic”. Somehow.
I hate saying that. But then, Boston fans might counter by saying that the Yankees had it on loan from Boston since 1920. Maybe. I hate saying that even more.
Then the 9th. I watched, enthralled. I could feel their win coming, even though I didn’t want it to happen. It was like watching a hurricane coming. You don’t want it, but you know you can’t stop it.
Youk crosses home plate for the win.
Where have you gone Joe Dimaggio?
I think all the Red Sox did is earn a respectable exit from the series. I think it’s clear which is the better team, the difference between this and previous years is that the Red Sox are hurt, rather than just playing poorly(although there was that also). Momentum can”t compensate for Beckett’s injured oblique, Papi’s injured wrist, Drew’s back, Varitek being cooked….etc, etc, etc.I think this was a ‘beauty of baseball’ game. This is why you want your team to reach the postseason, even if they don’t have much shot to go all the way.
[Disclaimer: I don't literally believe in "Yankee magic" or life beyond the grave, but I do believe great players make things happen when things need to happen and that there will be a resurrection of the dead. It remains to be seen if Tampa has the great players to have "Rays magic"...]
I am a die-hard Sox fan, and I almost turned that game off. Thank God that I didn’t! That was incredible; I can’t articulate the emotions I felt after that game. However, Joe, I’m sure someone has brought this up before, but can you start referring to the Sox as Team Lazarus henceforth? I don’t believe in magic, momentum, voodoo, any of that crap, but I am at a loss here. I just watched my team down 7 with 7 outs left come back and win an ALCS elimination game for the EIGHT STRAIGHT TIME!!! I’m sure it’s simply luck coupled with an extremely good team…but maybe I’m not quite as sure as I was Thursday morning. GO TEAM LAZARUS!!!!
[...] Joe Posnanski calls it something out of a kid’s dream. Yes: yes. A wild, improbable, ridiculous dream! Why did we become prematurely middle-aged cynical farts who fret about the stock market and pop Prilosec before eating pizza? NO! Today my hair is shiny. My abs are like my college abs. I could eat a barrelful of chili-cheese fries smothered in jalepenos and buffalo sauce and wash it down with cheap tequila and not feel even the slightest singe along my esophagus. When I woke up this morning, I didn’t even need coffee! i just bounded out of bed, tingling with La Belle Victoire. (But i did have some coffee anyway, just in case.) Maybe October comebacks are what Ponce de Leon was looking for! Tagged: [...]
I’m a lifelong Sox fan, and the closest equivalent to this game was 1986 vs. the Angels, once again a Game 5. Sox about to be eliminated, Hendu hits the game-tying home run off of Donnie Moore, and the Sox win in extra innings.
I don’t know if momentum exists or not, but in that series the Angels never recovered, and got blown out in Games 6 and 7. Of course, both of those games were at Fenway.
I can see how the Sox have become a hated team, have always despised the Yankees and now we’re turning into them. I still want them to win… all the time… can’t make it stop. Win or lose, at least we fought the good fight in Game 5 after 3 awful, spiritless games.
Joel said:
How often does the 5% chance happen? About 1 in 20 times.
Thanks for the math lesson Joel.
Too funny. Actually, it’s not “about” 1 in 20 times. 1 in 20 times is 5%.
I hope you are not a math teacher.
Anyway, I stuck through the entire game. I realized a long time ago baseball is never over until it’s over. Especially Red Sox baseball.
Any self respecting Sox fan who said they turned it off needs to get off the bandwagon.
I
When the Sox were down 5 I knew I couldn’t take it anymore, so I went to the local bar to watch it there (I’m in Baltmore, and there was no sound because nobody really cared, but there was booze and the game was on).
So, yeah, wow.
I still think we’re in bad shape to take the series and I have my doubts about tomorrow (Tek didn’t look so confident in the post game interview, but maybe I’m reading into it too much since he was pulled for a pinch hitter again)… but, really, if everyone on the Sox plays to their ability, and we know how great they can all be when they’re hot, well, then we can take it… but the Sox that have shown up for most of the series so far don’t have much of a chance…
By the way, I hope all the Fenway attendees who were pouring out in the 7th inning have learned their lesson.
Here is how momentum works: Sox MUST score in the first off of Big Game James, and then Beckett MUST put a heater in the vicinity of Upton’s ribs. It is inconceivable to me that he and Longoria have been allowed to own both sides of the plate. Beckett can NOT let that continue, and I doubt he will. Then the Rays will become emotionally distracted (watch for Crawford to implode), while the Sox chip away a couple more. That is how momentum works, because it is 100% mental and zero percent physical. The Sox have to take the Rays to a different place emotionally and mentally, and then let experience rule.
PS: The right way to handle Bay in the 9th was to try to pitch around him, and see if he would chase a couple, but give hiom nothing in the zone. But I have to agree, Maddon’s decision was by the book, Sabremetrics be damned. Can’t fault him if the guys don’t execute.
I’m attending school at the University of Tennessee and had to call my wife in Boston to tell her the Sox were starting to come back. She didn’t watch, thinking it was over. I called her back when it was 7-6. Our apartment is in Fenway-Kenmore and she said out of no where she heard this huge roar come from the Park. Needless to say, I couldn’t sleep last night so I’m playing hooky from school today. All I can say is, WOW!
This is why baseball is so great. No clock. You always control your own path. Anything can happen. I’m not sure if the Sox can pull this off, but after last night, I’m good for the winter.
If they do pull it out, don’t worry Rays fans.
I’m sure the 2004 Yankees, 2003 Cubs, 1992 Pirates (still can’t believe Sid scored from second on a weak Bonds throw), and the 1988 A’s will be there to welcome you to the club!
Momentum is real enough in baseball, but it isn’t something that carries over from game to game. It carries over from batter to batter. Good swings and base hits are contagious. So are bad swings. It works the same way in other sports. Back in the 60’s when I lived in Philly, the Eagles went to Dallas and beat the Cowboys something like 45-7. Two weeks later they lost to the Cowboys at Philadelphia by just about an identical score. Mo played a big part in each game, but it sure didn’t carry over. Teams stop playing to win and start trying to avoid losing. Often you can see it happen before your eyes. In football, it’s called the prevent defense. Come on guy’s, let’s avoid losing one for the Gipper.
Everyone who left that game early should never, ever be allowed to enter Fenway Park again.
Mere death would be too easy.
//Has anyone else heard that just as the Red Sox angered the Baseball Gods by painting the World Series logo on the field before Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS,//
That’s not entirely accurate. MLB ordered that logo to be painted, not the Red Sox.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=37713
I know it’s nitpicky, but still.
And as far as last night’s game goes, what it did was give the fans hope and give the team another game to get their [stuff] together. Doesn’t mean the Sox will pull off another ALCS win, but I sure like their chances better than I did BEFORE last night’s game.
The question about momentum seems odd to me — if it existed, did any team ever have more of it than the Rays last night at the seventh inning stretch?
Amazing game… now for all the comments that Tampa is going to win simply because they are the better team, you need a better argument. I laughed every time I saw John Lackey whine and throw his glove because the Angels were the better team. Right now that does not matter. You can have all the talent in the world, but if that is all it took, why do they play the game. Red Sox still have a long road to make it, but do not count these guys out… let’s just enjoy the show!
Wow. I saw it open-mouthed through the entire comeback.
It boggles my mind that Joe Maddon didn’t get Balfour out of there in the 7th and have Trever Miller (or even Howell) pitch to Ortiz. That’s why you have LOOGYs! Leaving Balfour in to face Ortiz was an awful managerial decision.
Still, I think the Rays will win the series.
“It’s the ultimate spoiler of what could have been a great moment in sports.”
So the great moment in sport would have been the Rays beating the Sox in the series 4 to 1? Why would that be great? Sure, if you are a Rays fan it would be great, but a great moment in sports? I hardly think so. The Great Moment was the Sox’s comeback win. Now that was GREAT! Even if you aren’t a Sox fan, which I am, you have to admit it was great. No, it was really F’ing GREAT!
I was fortunate enough to be at the game last night. (Last time I was there, Lester threw his no-no…. good couple of games to see this year!)
Anyway, most people you watched heading for the exits weren’t leaving at the 7th-inning stretch, they were heading to the beer line for last call. Most people we’re back standing by their seats — double-fisting their frothy beveragi — in the bottom half of the inning.
The disappointing thing was that before the bottom of the 7th, Boston fans were indistinguishable from Philly fans — they totally had turned on the Red Sox in a pretty disgusting (totally Philly)fashion.
Anyway, I still give the nod to the Rays. They pushed Boston back, and hard, when Boston tried to make the AL East race interesting. I bet they do it again.
I never quite gave up on them but by the 7th when the Rays added the two tack-on runs against Papelbon I had moved from disbelief to sadness to anger to bitter acceptance. The Rays at this moment in time were the better team, the Red Sox looked dead and outclassed and it broke my heart to see it. That’s what makes baseball such a glorious game. You don’t turn off a playoff game when you’re team is down 7-0 7 outs to go because no matter what stats and mathematical probability may say. Sometimes destiny or some weird intangible THING just takes hold of a game that defies everything logical and if that happens and your team is the beneficiary you absolutely do not want to miss it.
When Papi hit the moonshot and then Drew (a player who I can’t totally bring myself to like or wholeheartedly cheer for for some partly irrational reason) followed suit I KNEW that somehow the Red Sox were going to win that game. My head told me that it was still anyone’s game, but my gut told me the Sox had to and would find a way, after all that, to push across the final couple of runs they needed and they did.
I can’t say I’m exactly confident the Sox will win the series. The matchups favor the Rays and the intangible momentum, which is obviously on the Sox side right now, may well not be enough to overcome that
Sure, it’s unlikely that the Sox will sweep 2 at the Trop when the Rays pitchers at this point in time seem better but is it more unlikely then a group of struggling hitters suddenly exploding for 8 runs in 3 innings off statistically one of the best bullpens in MLB?
In baseball you just never know until the last out is recorded, but if the Sox lose the series they have gone down fighting and still given me another wonderful magical memory.
Sometimes your brain is wrong…
Sometimes your gut is right…
I’m voting Sox win the series because that’s what my gut says too and right now my gut is on a roll
You just never know in baseball and that’s what makes it such a great game. The best sport ever invented.
Big Papi was Geotge Mcfly at the Enchantment under the sea dance.Marty was the Sox disapearing from existance.Then Papi kissed his Mom.Sox have risen and the Rays are toast.
check out my blog of the game. http://www.tuftsdaily.com/cm/2.4574/blog/thescore?article155=19.378541&page155=BlogPosting
I dont know about you, but it would have been a hollywood script if Casey gets off the bench (not sure tito even knew his name, its been so long since his ticket was punched) and blasts a pinch-hit homer.
maybe it is to come . . . . keep hopes alive.
Lucky me ! I didn’t even turn the game on until the 7th inning because I had been at work. It was as though they waited until I could watch !!
I’ve never quite understood the argument that there’s no such thing as momentum. Ummm, if a momentum-skeptic were watching the bottom of the 7th inning and beyond last night, surely they would’ve seen some type of force that had clearly lifted the Red Sox and relegated the Rays??? No???
I’m not saying it was the hand of some baseball deity or anything, but I grew up playing sports and I know when things are going well, one’s confidence grows which causes him to play much better. Conversely, the opponent’s confidence wanes, which causes them to play more poorly. I don’t think there is any argument whatsoever for that happening.
I think if Joe Maddon had a :20 timeout, he would’ve used it in any of the final three innings(!) Clearly the “momentum” was in the Sox dugout.
Let’s see if “Big Game” James Shield and his 0-1 career record in “Big Games” can restore the momentum Tampa’s way. As a Sox fan, I sure hope not.
BTW, this is my first time reading this blog (linked from an article on Boston Globe site), and am REALLY impressed. Great post by Joe and really smart, articulate posts by the readers.
Check out my blog of the game
http://www.tuftsdaily.com/cm/2.4574/blog/thescore?article155=19.378541&page155=BlogPosting
I found Chip Caray’s comment on walking the right hander odd, but that didn’t compare to Tim McCarver’s comments just before Matt Stairs ruined the Dodger series…McCarver said the pitcher was “going right after the pinch hitter” just before the count went to 3-1! And then explained this was because the pinch hitter is never as good as the regular batter (Jimmy Rollins was due up). I laughed out loud even before Stairs launched that bomb on the very next pitch. It would seem to me pinch hitters with power would deserve some finesse pitching as they are likely to be looking fastball early in the count. But McCarver explained it all away with this useful analysis: “That pitch was right down the middle.” You think? Last night was unbelievable—great playoff baseball.
Hey guys, I hear Tufts Daily has a Hell of an account of the game. I just wish I had the link somewhere…
In my experience, professional sportsmen do not look at sport, or react to results, the way fans do. A fan will sulk for days, weeks or months over some setback suffered by his team; the players involved will be annoyed at the time, possibly even more so than the fan, but as soon as preparations begin for the next game all is forgotten. The focus needed for the next challenge is all-consuming and leaves no room for bitterness.
The Rays will have walked off Fenway thinking they’d been kicked in the teeth — but all their concentration is now on Game 6. Momentum switch? Doesn’t happen. Won’t happen.
A hallmark of professional sportsmen is their single-mindedness; they treat every game as Game 1 of a one-game series. Any other approach leads to a lesser performance, which leads to defeat.
And nothing concentrates the mind better than a loss in a game that looked won.
Wheeler should’ve been pulled immediately after the cameras showed his expression after whichever big hit he served up. I’m pretty sure it was about the same as Thigpen’s after a pass play was called. After seeing it my brain immediately went to the part in Major League II before Ricky Vaughn gave up the homer to Jack Parkman, “he’s !$*#@%.”
I’ll stick to my guns. There is simply no way the Rays win this series. Not before it started and definitely not now.
I was at Game one of the 1988 World Series. Our seats are just inside third base on the second level. And my parents wanted to leave after the eighth inning. I refused (since we drove together). But they left our excellent seats to walk down to the left field foul pole area to have a shorter walk to our car, and stood for the 9th inning. The rest you know.
What most people outside LA don’t know is just how poorly Dodger Stadium is integrated into the neighborhood. Leaving the parking lot for the Harbor Freeway is five lanes, but only one lane on the onramp. Same for the Golden State Freeway, the Hollywood Freeway at Echo Park or Temple, Scott Avenue to the Glendale Freeway (which was closed for many years). And in the playoffs, when lots of regulars sell their tickets*, then you get a crowd of folks who aren’t used to driving at Dodger Stadium. A sellout traffic jam for (say) the fireworks games or Opening Day during the season is never nearly as bad getting out of the stadium as a playoffs sellout. I have seen it take an hour to get from the parking lot to the streets (not even the freeways!) if there is an accident. And you can’t really hang out to let the traffic disperse; they stop cooking everything, so you can’t even buy a late snack unless you want something cold.
I have sold my playoff tickets exactly once in all the years I shared in our family’s season seats, going all the way back to the first year Dodger Stadium opened. I had a job that insisted I work basically all that weekend. I could not get out of it. Sure, I was paid OT, but it was 1981, and this rookie Fernando was supposed to pitch against the Yankees, and it was October and my birthday, for Koufax’s sake! Then I sold the two tickets for half of what my entire season tickets cost, and I realized why some folks sell their playoff tickets; they need the money. As soon as I found another job, I quit. Fernando won that game, the Dodgers won the Series, but I wasn’t there as I was in 1965 and 1988.
To understand Dodger Stadium traffic, they are within two miles or less of four different freeways (Glendale, Golden State, Harbor/Pasadena, Hollywood) going in almost every direction from downtown Los Angeles. But street traffic into the stadium on big games can be awful. There was no public transportation without a fairly good steep hike from Sunset Blvd. (the nearest). So in those days, you drove. Maybe you parked outside the Stadium and hiked in, to save on parking (and depending on circumstances, possible saving time leaving). But you drove.
I hate to give the McCourts credit for much of anything, because of all the bad stuff they’ve done to the Stadium and the way they’ve shafted folks who have been loyal fans for decades in search of a few extra dollars. But I’ll give them full credit for working hard on the traffic problem. There are now regular free shuttle buses to Union Station, about 15 minutes away assuming heavy but not insane traffic. From Union Station, you can take the metro (light train) anywhere, you can take CalTrain to lots of outlying suburbs, and you can connect with any large number of buses. They keep Scott Avenue closed before the games, so the neighborhood isn’t impacted early (especially with scalpers and parkers) but after the game you can drive out, bringing the Glendale Freeway back into service. They changed traffic flow within the parking lots to make it easier for everybody to get in and out without having to force your way into traffic. And so people stay later at the game. Sure, you’ll still see some folks leave early, for whatever reason. But in general, even in games that aren’t close, fans stay later because they aren’t going to get as badly stuck sitting in traffic. If they would let the Stadium Club restaurant stay open AFTER the game for general public service, then it would even be okay to stick around late and let traffic disperse.
Congrats to all Rays fans. What great mental toughness displayed tonight. From Garza to Aybar to Price. I didn’t think they could take the pressure. I was wrong.
Thank every God there is that the BloSox DID lose the series. I’m so sick of them and even more so their bandwagon fans. All those folks leaving FENWAY proves the bandwagon theory. I used to like the Sox when they were always the heartbroken losers – underdogs. Now they ARE the evil empire – even more irritating than the Yankees.
Hey Kev–
Leaving the stadium down 7-0 with 7 outs left, trailing 3-1 in a 7 game series is “bandwagon” in your bitter book? That’s amusing. There’s a great difference between not wanting to see a visiting team celebrate on your home field after a long, extremely SUCCESSFUL season and being a fair weather fan. It’s actually quite uninformed of you to suggest Boston fans are fair weather as you can hear “Let’s Go Red Sox” chanted in almost every other city they come and play in all season long and frankly are there long after the Dodgers or Angel fans have gone home, gathering by the visiting dugout to give respect as they leave the field. Sorry you can’t forgive a few thousand die hards who didnt expect to see the second greatest comeback in professional baseball history.
As a devout 40+ year fan of the Sox it gives me great pleasure to irritate “baseball fans” like you. Winning baseball, strong farm teams, a commitment to every pitch, pure love of the game, strong history – I can see why you hate us. Deal with it.
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