Comments on: The Fall of the Phillies http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/ A Rough Draft Blog Mon, 15 Mar 2010 06:06:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Lee http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-40265 Lee Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:14:29 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-40265 I was at The Fumble and what a surreal game and moment that was. But I have to agree that Red Right 88 was the most traumatic for me. I wasn't there but the Kardiac Kids were supposed to win it at the end and Mike Davis seemingly comes out of nowhere to catch the ball and end the season then and there. Tough, tough, tough. I was at The Fumble and what a surreal game and moment that was. But I have to agree that Red Right 88 was the most traumatic for me. I wasn’t there but the Kardiac Kids were supposed to win it at the end and Mike Davis seemingly comes out of nowhere to catch the ball and end the season then and there. Tough, tough, tough.

]]> By: Brian http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-34677 Brian Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:59:50 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-34677 I vaguely remembered The Drive and The Fumble, but they were mainly the burden of my father. I just remember screaming and cursing of John Elway. 1997 was my defining moment as a fan. It's the moment I no longer was positive about my favorite teams. I lived in constant fear during the entire Game 7, but strangely I became calm when Joe Table strode to the mound in Miami. Bob Costas soothed my insecurities as a Cleveland fan by breathlessly telling us how this would break the Curse of Colavito, how there were people waiting their whole lives for this moment as the camera panned on a terrified looking Mike Hargrove. For some reason, it just felt right. Even after Moises Alou's hit, I believed. After Charles Johnson's single, I believed. It was that sac fly where you can pinpoint the moment I no longer truly believed in the Indians...ever again. The Indians won more division titles, they had great players, but I knew there would be no storybook ending. There was no shock to blowing a 3-1 lead in the ALCS. It was just a fitting coda to that ninth inning in '97. I vaguely remembered The Drive and The Fumble, but they were mainly the burden of my father. I just remember screaming and cursing of John Elway.

1997 was my defining moment as a fan. It’s the moment I no longer was positive about my favorite teams. I lived in constant fear during the entire Game 7, but strangely I became calm when Joe Table strode to the mound in Miami.

Bob Costas soothed my insecurities as a Cleveland fan by breathlessly telling us how this would break the Curse of Colavito, how there were people waiting their whole lives for this moment as the camera panned on a terrified looking Mike Hargrove.

For some reason, it just felt right. Even after Moises Alou’s hit, I believed. After Charles Johnson’s single, I believed. It was that sac fly where you can pinpoint the moment I no longer truly believed in the Indians…ever again.

The Indians won more division titles, they had great players, but I knew there would be no storybook ending.

There was no shock to blowing a 3-1 lead in the ALCS. It was just a fitting coda to that ninth inning in ‘97.

]]> By: Nate P. http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33938 Nate P. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:14:22 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33938 (Clarification: I was ten during the '87 series; 14 in '91.) (Clarification: I was ten during the ‘87 series; 14 in ‘91.)

]]> By: Nate P. http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33937 Nate P. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:13:44 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33937 Lots of Minnesota comments, but how about this: I was a Twins fan at age ten, thanks to the World Series, and after '91 I got the strange idea in my (revved-up) teenage head that this was a future dynasty: Puckett would still be playing in the year 2000, Hrbek would finish his career with 400+ homers and a solid Hall of Fame case, Scott Erickson would be a perennial 20-game winner, Knoblauch would be my generation's Carew, we'd have another World Championship or two tucked under our belts -- there would be no stopping us. If 1991 was the upswing, the big year that permanently etched baseball into my heart, 1992 was the kick in the stomach that I'd never really experienced as a Twins fan. Eric Fox isn't as notorious as Chambliss or Dent or Boone or any of your more well-known late-season/postseason dream crushers, but when he hit that grand slam on July 29th to put the A's above the Twins in first place, that murdered the Twinkies for the rest of the decade. The '93 team lost 91 games, and the Twins finished no better than fourth until 2001. Puckett woke up one morning with glaucoma, Hrbek retired after '94, Knoblauch got whiny and eventually wound up getting the trade he demanded, Erickson slipped into mediocrity, the team nearly got contracted, Ortiz got dumped, promising stars had flashes of brilliance before the inevitable trade (Matt Lawton, Todd Walker) or decline (Marty Cordova) -- and then, year after year, the great playoff-caliber teams that get knocked out before they get a chance to grab a pennant, capped off by that amazing '06 season that those damnable A's put an unceremonious end to. Even now, when they're fielding a team of inexplicably-great youngsters that have a real shot at being the best team in the AL Central for the next five years, everything that's happened from '92 on floods my forebrain with this fatalist pessimism, as though the team I've grown up to root for is never going to get its due, doomed forever to toil far away from the coastal spotlights that, when they even bother to aim themselves towards the Midwest, keep all their focus on Chicago. Tonight's one-game pennant playoff against the White Sox is, I fear, only going to make this worse. Well, at least we only have one more year of playing in the second-worst baseball stadium in the world. Lots of Minnesota comments, but how about this:

I was a Twins fan at age ten, thanks to the World Series, and after ‘91 I got the strange idea in my (revved-up) teenage head that this was a future dynasty: Puckett would still be playing in the year 2000, Hrbek would finish his career with 400+ homers and a solid Hall of Fame case, Scott Erickson would be a perennial 20-game winner, Knoblauch would be my generation’s Carew, we’d have another World Championship or two tucked under our belts — there would be no stopping us.

If 1991 was the upswing, the big year that permanently etched baseball into my heart, 1992 was the kick in the stomach that I’d never really experienced as a Twins fan. Eric Fox isn’t as notorious as Chambliss or Dent or Boone or any of your more well-known late-season/postseason dream crushers, but when he hit that grand slam on July 29th to put the A’s above the Twins in first place, that murdered the Twinkies for the rest of the decade. The ‘93 team lost 91 games, and the Twins finished no better than fourth until 2001. Puckett woke up one morning with glaucoma, Hrbek retired after ‘94, Knoblauch got whiny and eventually wound up getting the trade he demanded, Erickson slipped into mediocrity, the team nearly got contracted, Ortiz got dumped, promising stars had flashes of brilliance before the inevitable trade (Matt Lawton, Todd Walker) or decline (Marty Cordova) — and then, year after year, the great playoff-caliber teams that get knocked out before they get a chance to grab a pennant, capped off by that amazing ‘06 season that those damnable A’s put an unceremonious end to. Even now, when they’re fielding a team of inexplicably-great youngsters that have a real shot at being the best team in the AL Central for the next five years, everything that’s happened from ‘92 on floods my forebrain with this fatalist pessimism, as though the team I’ve grown up to root for is never going to get its due, doomed forever to toil far away from the coastal spotlights that, when they even bother to aim themselves towards the Midwest, keep all their focus on Chicago. Tonight’s one-game pennant playoff against the White Sox is, I fear, only going to make this worse.

Well, at least we only have one more year of playing in the second-worst baseball stadium in the world.

]]> By: BlackFrancis http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33804 BlackFrancis Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:28:48 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33804 Die hard New Orleans Saints fan here...I think that explains all there is to know about me and sports. (BTW: everyone else who lived to experience a title...hell, even a title run...please hush) Die hard New Orleans Saints fan here…I think that explains all there is to know about me and sports.

(BTW: everyone else who lived to experience a title…hell, even a title run…please hush)

]]> By: The Norm Cash Singers http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33711 The Norm Cash Singers Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:11:41 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33711 I never realized until reading this article how fortunate I was growing up as a fan of the Detroit teams. We had no accute pain - just a dull, chronic ache that came from rooting for the Tigers, Lions "Dead Wings" and Pistons. I went back and looked up their records from 1973 to 1982 (when I was between 8 and 17) and I'd bet a considerable sum that no city with franchises in all four major professional sports could "beat" the futility of Detroit: Tigers: one 3rd place finish, the rest 4ths, 5ths and 6ths. 42 games under .500. Lions: one winning season (9-7). One playoff appearance (in the strike-shortened 1982 when they went 4-5. Pistons: two second place finishes, no playoff appearances. 114 games under .500 Red Wings: No winning seasons. 199 games under .500 (doubly impressive when you throw out the 10 to 15 ties each season). One second place finish - the remainder 4th or worse. One playoff appearance. 40 seasons. No first place finishes. Two playoff appearances with no victories. 373 games below .500. I would have traded a leg to suffer a traumatic world series or super bowl defeat rather than to be looking "forward" to next season at the all-star break! I never realized until reading this article how fortunate I was growing up as a fan of the Detroit teams. We had no accute pain – just a dull, chronic ache that came from rooting for the Tigers, Lions “Dead Wings” and Pistons. I went back and looked up their records from 1973 to 1982 (when I was between 8 and 17) and I’d bet a considerable sum that no city with franchises in all four major professional sports could “beat” the futility of Detroit:

Tigers: one 3rd place finish, the rest 4ths, 5ths and 6ths. 42 games under .500.

Lions: one winning season (9-7). One playoff appearance (in the strike-shortened 1982 when they went 4-5.

Pistons: two second place finishes, no playoff appearances. 114 games under .500

Red Wings: No winning seasons. 199 games under .500 (doubly impressive when you throw out the 10 to 15 ties each season). One second place finish – the remainder 4th or worse. One playoff appearance.

40 seasons. No first place finishes. Two playoff appearances with no victories. 373 games below .500.

I would have traded a leg to suffer a traumatic world series or super bowl defeat rather than to be looking “forward” to next season at the all-star break!

]]> By: Cliff http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33596 Cliff Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:09:16 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33596 I was 9 in 1995 when the Seattle Mariners came from 13 games back to win the AL West in a one game playoff. I still remember watching Luis Sojo's "Grand Slam" double and Mark Langston sprawl out at home plate in defeat. Randy Johnson ended the game by striking out Tim Salmon looking and Dan Wilson went sprinting into his arms. They fell behind 2-0 against the Yankees in the division series. In game 4 they came back from a 5-0 deficit and Edgar Martinez hit a go-ahead grand slam. In game 5 Edgar had that game winning double that scored Ken Griffey Jr. But when the team was finally eliminated in game 6 of the ALCS against the Indians the fans all stayed and kept cheering. The players stayed long after the game thanking the fans. The team's run had electrified the city, seemingly every other car had a "Refuse to Lose" placard in it, and the team was finally able to get fans to come to the monstrosity known as the Kingdome. From then on I was hooked, no matter how hard it is to cheer for the Mariners. I was 9 in 1995 when the Seattle Mariners came from 13 games back to win the AL West in a one game playoff. I still remember watching Luis Sojo’s “Grand Slam” double and Mark Langston sprawl out at home plate in defeat. Randy Johnson ended the game by striking out Tim Salmon looking and Dan Wilson went sprinting into his arms.
They fell behind 2-0 against the Yankees in the division series. In game 4 they came back from a 5-0 deficit and Edgar Martinez hit a go-ahead grand slam. In game 5 Edgar had that game winning double that scored Ken Griffey Jr.
But when the team was finally eliminated in game 6 of the ALCS against the Indians the fans all stayed and kept cheering. The players stayed long after the game thanking the fans. The team’s run had electrified the city, seemingly every other car had a “Refuse to Lose” placard in it, and the team was finally able to get fans to come to the monstrosity known as the Kingdome. From then on I was hooked, no matter how hard it is to cheer for the Mariners.

]]> By: Alex http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33523 Alex Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:24:03 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33523 I became a baseball fan - more specifically, a St. Louis Cardinals fan - on July 20th, 2004. I had just moved from St. Louis to Olathe Kansas and had nothing better to do, so I watched the Cardinals, my hometown team, play the Chicago Cubs in the last game between the two teams of the season on WGN that afternoon. I had actually watched the game the previous night, which was what spurred me to watch the game the next day - I had to find something to do. The Cardinals went up 1-0 in the first. Albert Pujols had a double. I had heard of him before. He's pretty good from what I remember. The Cardinals go down 7-1. Pujols hits a solo home run - 7-2. Then it's 8-2 Cubs. Albert Pujols leads off the sixth with a single. Several more hits follow. 8-6 Cubs. Hey, this is getting interesting. Pujols leads off the seventh with a solo shot - a one run game, and Albert Pujols is 4-4. Damn, he's good. So Taguchi ties the game in the 8th with a solo homer. Whoa! Pujols hits in the top of the ninth. Two run shot. Sanders adds a solo shot to put the game at its final score, 11-8. 5-for-5, a double, three homers. The first, and greatest, single-game hitting performance I've yet witnessed in my brief career as a baseball fan. Thank you, Mr. Pujols. I became a baseball fan – more specifically, a St. Louis Cardinals fan – on July 20th, 2004. I had just moved from St. Louis to Olathe Kansas and had nothing better to do, so I watched the Cardinals, my hometown team, play the Chicago Cubs in the last game between the two teams of the season on WGN that afternoon. I had actually watched the game the previous night, which was what spurred me to watch the game the next day – I had to find something to do.

The Cardinals went up 1-0 in the first. Albert Pujols had a double. I had heard of him before. He’s pretty good from what I remember. The Cardinals go down 7-1. Pujols hits a solo home run – 7-2. Then it’s 8-2 Cubs. Albert Pujols leads off the sixth with a single. Several more hits follow. 8-6 Cubs. Hey, this is getting interesting. Pujols leads off the seventh with a solo shot – a one run game, and Albert Pujols is 4-4. Damn, he’s good. So Taguchi ties the game in the 8th with a solo homer. Whoa! Pujols hits in the top of the ninth. Two run shot. Sanders adds a solo shot to put the game at its final score, 11-8.

5-for-5, a double, three homers. The first, and greatest, single-game hitting performance I’ve yet witnessed in my brief career as a baseball fan. Thank you, Mr. Pujols.

]]> By: Brian http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33447 Brian Sat, 27 Sep 2008 17:35:52 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33447 Are Yankee fans allowed to have scarring experiences? I was born 2 months after the Yanks lost the '76 series to the Reds, and have no memory of the '77, '78, & '81 series. I didn't have one particularly painful moment as a child, just the overall disappointment that was the late '80s and early '90s. All I had to root for was Mattingly. I faithfully watched almost every game, every year, even thru the dark years of '88-'92. Finally, it all came together in '94. I was sure they were going to win it all . . . until the strike wiped out the post season. They started out poorly in '95, but put it together in August . . . after I had left for West Point, where there was no tv, no radio, no internet. I had to wait for the newspaper the next morning to find out if they'd won. I found out they won their first 2 playoff games against the Mariners from the New York Times. Games 3-5 were Columbus Day weekend, when I would be home on pass. I came home and watched them lose 3 straight. I don't ever remember being that depressed. And I will always hate Edgar Martinez, Ken Griffey, and Randy Johnson. Are Yankee fans allowed to have scarring experiences? I was born 2 months after the Yanks lost the ‘76 series to the Reds, and have no memory of the ‘77, ‘78, & ‘81 series. I didn’t have one particularly painful moment as a child, just the overall disappointment that was the late ’80s and early ’90s. All I had to root for was Mattingly. I faithfully watched almost every game, every year, even thru the dark years of ‘88-’92. Finally, it all came together in ‘94. I was sure they were going to win it all . . . until the strike wiped out the post season. They started out poorly in ‘95, but put it together in August . . . after I had left for West Point, where there was no tv, no radio, no internet. I had to wait for the newspaper the next morning to find out if they’d won. I found out they won their first 2 playoff games against the Mariners from the New York Times. Games 3-5 were Columbus Day weekend, when I would be home on pass. I came home and watched them lose 3 straight. I don’t ever remember being that depressed. And I will always hate Edgar Martinez, Ken Griffey, and Randy Johnson.

]]> By: Matt http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33302 Matt Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:50:36 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/09/24/the-fall-of-the-phillies/#comment-33302 I'm a lifelong Philly fan and two moments stand out to me (tempered very much by my relative youth) The first was of course Mitch Williams pitch to Joe Carter. Oddly enough i cannot remember the pitch itself i can only remember how long it took to react to it (btw i was at the 15-14 loss in the world series that year and i was at the 13-12 win in the nlcs against the Braves that year. apparently i brought the offense) The second i can remember the image insanely clearly. It was in Game 7 of the 1999-2000 Eastern Conference Championships between the Devils and the Flyers and Eric Lindros attempting to return from injury got knocked out within two minutes and the tv replayed the image 9 billion times and in every one it was evident how cheap that hit was (people's elbows don't naturally gravitate towards chins!) The most annoying thing about this memory was that i'm not even a big hockey fan! but this moment stuck with me much more than any moment from sports i love a whole lot more. I’m a lifelong Philly fan and two moments stand out to me (tempered very much by my relative youth)
The first was of course Mitch Williams pitch to Joe Carter. Oddly enough i cannot remember the pitch itself i can only remember how long it took to react to it (btw i was at the 15-14 loss in the world series that year and i was at the 13-12 win in the nlcs against the Braves that year. apparently i brought the offense)
The second i can remember the image insanely clearly. It was in Game 7 of the 1999-2000 Eastern Conference Championships between the Devils and the Flyers and Eric Lindros attempting to return from injury got knocked out within two minutes and the tv replayed the image 9 billion times and in every one it was evident how cheap that hit was (people’s elbows don’t naturally gravitate towards chins!) The most annoying thing about this memory was that i’m not even a big hockey fan! but this moment stuck with me much more than any moment from sports i love a whole lot more.

]]>