Folks…get OVER the Rose-Fosse Crash in the 1970 All-Star Game. Ray Fosse was blocking the plate – why was he going all out in an exhibition season…hmmm??? Bitter Ray played several more years, even with diminished stats. Who’s to say that Fosse would have been another Johnny Bench? That’s a theory…with little evidence to back it up. Fosse has been whining way too long since that time as well.

Rose played at second, third, leftfield, rightfield, and 1st base and was voted to previous All-Star Teams in each of those positions. Jeter has always been a good shortstop and stayed there; still, he has more power.

Rose and Jeter produced wins for their teams, and both were named Captains of their teams; Rose for the Reds, and Jeter for the Yankees.

Rose seemed to rise to the occasion of a big game moment a little more. Still disappointed that Jeter went 0-for-5 in the final Yankee Stadium game, though I understand he was really hurting – his speech was amazing.

Seems Rose would have gotten a base hit in Riverfront Stadium’s final game. In fact, 61-year-old Pete did just that – in a charity softball game. Then, he slid headfirst into third base – on old legs. The old man sold out the ballpark as well – well over 40,000 fans paid to see a bunch of baseball legends play the softball game…but Pete Rose was the main draw.

Jeter more than edges out Rose in class, though – especially OFF the field. Look at his foundations, and his reaching out to the public. When was the last time you heard or read about Derek Jeter embarrassing his family, his team, or himself? You hear about Pete Rose doing all of the above almost every time he makes the news, and that’s sad.

I like both players. As a Pete Rose fan, I’ll take Pete by a nose – On The Field. I just wish Mr. Rose – Charlie Hustle – would learn a lesson or two from Mr. Jeter, who hearkens back to Yankee, Baseball Greats of years gone by.

Off the field, in public relations, and for the good of Major League Baseball and it’s fans – It’s NOT even close. Derek Jeter is the choice.

Mr. Rose – PLEASE clean up your act, and stop acting like an overaged, senior teenager. Mr. Jeter – keep up the good work, and never forget your upbringing and the kids who are watching you.

To retrun the favor: I took “decade plus” to mean about 15 years, and I listed players who either played up-the-middle positions like Jeter or who hit so astoundingly that it didn’t really matter.

Biggio, for example, played ALL of the up-the-middle spots except short, and was very good to great at all of them, as I recall. Beltran’s average doesn’t keep up, but he’s a plus-plus defender with superior power.

I think we can still quibble a bit over certain details, such as Jeter’s 1999 being superior to anything Vlad, Manny, or Chipper did. Chipper was the 1999 NL MVP, after all – 319/441/633, with 40+ doubles AND homers, 25 steals in 28 tries, and 126 walks. Nobody wanted anything to do with him. Manny and Vlad have been legit Triple Crown threats for nearly a decade – Manny rolled out 8 consecutive years at 150 or better OPS+, which is premium at any position.

Like you said, it’s about whatever value he may or may not have as a middling shortstop versus huge firepower in a less demanding role. Personally I would have moved him from short long ago – it would have helped his offense and hurt the team less on defense to have converted him. Looking at 2b and LF, for example, from ‘96-’04 reveals more bad than good:

‘96: 2b Mariano Duncan (112 OPS+); LF Gerald Williams (88)
‘97: 2b Luis Sojo (91); LF Raines (124) and Chad Curtis (117)
‘98: 2b Chuck Knoblauch (102); LF Curtis (90) (and they still won!)
‘99: 2b Knoblauch (118); LF Curits (100), Ricky Ledee (110)
‘00: 2b Knoblauch (92); LF Ledee (90), David Justice (145)
‘01: 2b Alfonso Soriano (90); Knoblauch (heheheh) (82)
‘02: 2b Sorianio (129)**; LF Rondell White (76), Shane Spencer (86)
‘03: 2b Soriano (126); LF Hideki Matsui (109)
‘04: 2b Miguel Cairo (100), Enrique Wilson (51); LF Matsui (137)

** This was the breakout near 40-40 for Alfonso. He also had 23 walks against 157 strikeouts and wasn’t much better that way in ‘03. He was also shaky enough defensively that he went to the outfield once he was traded. Call me simple (and you’d be right!) but I think Jeter’s value at second or even left would have been better than any of these guys, except maybe Soriano, who could have been moved to left himself.

That does leave open the question of whom the Yankees would have played at short. In general a team can best afford an offensive hole at short; it’s amazing to me that they got so little from left field for so many of those seasons while still succeeding, and that is a credit to Jeter and his teammates for picking up the slack.

Of course, any long span that includes a lot of a player’s career is automatically a cherry-pick to some extent, as anyone who’s ever read a “Jim Rice for the Hall of Fame” column can confirm. Make it 20 years, and Jeter doesn’t look as good; Thomas, Piazza, and Biggio all move into his area or somewhat past him, and Ken Griffey, Jeff Bagwell, Mark McGwire, Barry Larkin, and Robbie Alomar show up around here as well. But 20 years is a long time; if he’s (say) the 12th best player in a 20-year span that doesn’t include his entire career, that’s some really good work.

And yes, Jeter did move A-Rod off of short (or at least his managers did). That wasn’t the right call, in a lot of people’s opinions, including mine. Make of that whatever you will.

We’re not really disagreeing on all that much, as far as I can tell; mainly the positional value accrued by an average or even below-average fielder at short, which is a tricky issue. Don’t let me put words in anyone’s mouth, but it seems like we all think he’s a terrific player and an easy first-ballot Hall of Famer, who’s nevertheless a subpar fielder at short with an overinflated reputation in many circles. Cool with everyone?

By a nose.

@Mitcho – That was Hi-La-Ri-Ous!

@Josh in DC – You got some serious intestinal fortitude, brother.

Jeter gets credit for playing shortstop in my books, but I’m not sure how much, particularly given that he’s never manned the position particularly well. To me, a catcher like Piazza or a great defensive CF like Beltran should get more credit for defense. Chipper came up as a SS, and though he rarely played there in the bigs, he at least had the ability to do so, quite possibly very decently.

And while Jeter’s technically the only guy who’s played SS the whole time, that kind of comes with a caveat, since A-Rod left the position to accommodate the ego of an inferior defensive player.

I don’t want to trash Jeter this much, since he is a great player. Once again, those who like Jeter think he’s better than he is (often to a ridiculous degree), those who dislike Jeter probably discount his abilities more than they should, and never the twain shall meet.