Gardy Time! Excellent!
Posted: August 31st, 2008 | Filed under: Baseball | 56 Comments »
Everyone here already knows about the man-crush* I have on Twins manager Ron Gardenhire.
*I just popped on this Labor Day morning and noticed that brilliant reader Fran does not like the phrase man-crush, thinks that it’s a divisive term that is really an attempt to distance ourselves, or a way to be cool and at the same time prevent people from thinking we’re gay. I never thought of this before, and I’m not 100 percent sure that I agree with it. But just to be safe, let me clarify by saying that I have a real crush on Gardy. I love him, I looooove him, I luff him (two F’s).
I base my feelings about Gardenhire entirely on what I call the Gardy Axiom.
The Twins, based on my outsiders view of the relative talents of their players and perennially low payroll, should stink.
The Twins do not stink.
Gardy is a freaking genius.
Obviously this is a simplistic view, and people who follow the Twins in a much more involved and analytical way than I do can (and have) put together a long list of Gardy’s flaws as a manager. They have collected his bizarre philosophies in book and blog form. They have presented an airtight case that Gardenhire, in fact, does many inexplicable things like only use Joe Nathan for one inning and stick with Nick Punto through thick and thin and name an utterly obscure near beauty queen turned Alaska mayor turned Alaska governor his running mate. I suspect that if I watched Gardy manage baseball games every day, I would see those flaws myself and scoff at any outsiders who said glowing things about the man.*
*Of course, there might also be a little something to be gained from distance … I think of Carlos Beltran. Watching him play every single day, it’s hard not to think how much BETTER he could be. That’s because you see him do amazing things on a fairly regular basis. And you wonder why he doesn’t do those all the time. You see him run down an impossible-to-reach fly ball and you can start to think that he should catch every fly ball. You see him hit homers righty and lefty and you might think he should be able to hit them on command. You see him steal bases with such ease and success and you think he should steal 100 every year. And because of all that, he goes out and wins a Gold Glove in centerfield, scores 111 runs, drives in 109 RBIs, cracks 38 doubles, hits 25 homers, steals 23 bases, walks 90 times — that’s what he is on pace to do this year — and the least impressed person in the house is the one who saw him play the most times.
Maybe Gardy is best appreciated from a distance too. Brilliant reader Justyo asks how many more games the Kansas City Royals would win with Gardy as the skipper all year instead of Trey Hillman. Well, my first answer is: I have no idea. It might not be an impressive difference if you tried to match them up like that — I mean maybe the Royals only win three more games or five or more games or seven or one, I don’t really know. It doesn’t really matter either. When you’re dreadful like the Royals, every extra victory really helps bring you closer to where you want to go and makes everyone (fans, players, employees, media members) feel just a little bit better about the direction of the team. The difference between 72 wins and 75 wins may not seem like very much but it’s the difference between losing 90 games and and not losing 90, which is a real thing when you’ve been so bad for so long. I guess I’m says that I have little doubt there would be a better feeling about the Kansas City Royals and a lot more hope around it if Gardy was manager.
Then, let me put it another way. You ask, “How many more games would the Royals win with Gardy as manager?” I feel very confident in saying: More.
I do believe, though, that there are certain hard-to-pinpoint and difficult-to0calculate things a good manager can do to help a team win. One of the best managers I ever wrote about on a regular basis was Davey Johnson in Cincinnati in 1994 and, especially, 1995. I couldn’t tell you precisely what Davey did so well … I saw it in bits and pieces. You could just see how relaxed the players were, how confident they were even after a couple of losses. He seemed to rest guys just when they needed it, he moved around his lineup without irritating the players, he kept everyone in the bullpen busy and somewhat contented. He allowed players to hit their way through slumps and pitch their way through rough patches, but he also did not hesitate to make changes when they had to be made. He gave stars enough respect that they played hard for him, but he also gave the backups the feeling that he believed in them and expected them to come through. The Reds played aggressively (led the National League in stolen bases and doubles) and yet they played patiently too (third in the league in walks). They had pretty good starting pitching and pretty good relief pitching without any real stars.
The Reds struggled the year Davey took the job, and they were lousy the years after he left, but those two full years (even with the astonishing management team of Crazy Jim Bowden and the unsinkable Marge Schott), they played at about 95-win pace, and they finished first in their division twice (1994 was the strike, of course, so there were no playoffs). In the end, sure, the Reds won in ‘95 because Barry Larkin had a great year, Reggie Sanders had probably the best year of his not-unimpressive career, Benito Santiago was really good in part-time duty, Ron Gant had what might have been HIS best year over 119 games, Mark Lewis/Jerome Walton/Eddie Taubensee, these guys ALL had excellent years in that 150-200 at-bat level, pitcher Pete Schourek had easily the best season of his career, the bullpen with Jeff Brantley and Mike Jackson leading, mostly got the job done.
How much credit do you give Davey Johnson for all that? Well, I can’t give you a win total. I can only tell you that I saw how it was the next year with the very nice but very baffled Ray Knight. Everything might have been different in Cincinnati if the Reds had been someone else as manager.
So, I think, it goes with Gardy. Just to make the point: Look at the Minnesota Twins lineup against the New York Yankees. You can start with this (all this through Sunday’s games):
– The Yankees as a team have a higher on-base percentage.
– The Yankees as a team have a higher slugging percentage.
– The Yankees have 49 more home runs.
– The Yankees have more stolen bases and have been caught fewer times.
– The Yankees have the best hitter on either team, Alex Rodgriguez.
– The Yankees have six players with more than 250 at-bats with an OPS+ over 100. The Twins have three (four if you count Denard Span, who has 235 at-bats … go ahead and count him).
– By Base Runs, the Yankees should have scored about 20 more runs than the Twins.
– By Runs Created, the Yankees should have scored about 15 more runs than the Twins.
– By salary differential, the Yankees ($137 million tied in hitters at start of year) should outscore the Twins ($38 million) about 3.6 to 1.
OK, going into Sunday, the Minnesota Twins had scored 39 more runs than the New York Yankees.
Now, you tell me: How is that possible? The Twins’ outfield this year is mostly Delmon Young (96 OPS+), Carlos Gomez (71 OPS+ — yikes!) and Michael Cuddyer (89 OPS+). They finally let go of third baseman Mike Lamb but not before he punched up a .233/.276/.322 in 236 at-bats. We all know about Mauer and Morneau, and they’re really good, but other than those two and the aforementioned Span, nobody else on the team with even 100 at-bats has a .345 on-base. The Yankees have EIGHT guys with at least a .345 OBP.
So how can the Twins possibly be outscoring the Yankees? Well, I can give you an answer in two words: Robinson Cano. No, thats not right, just kidding, it seems like every person on the Internet is blaming all of the Yankees problems on Cano, so I figured that I should just pile on. But obviously that’s wrong, no, you cannot blame the colossal failure of the New York Yankees on one Robinson Cano, it’s not fair to pin it all on his slumping shoulders. It’s a much bigger problem. The real reason the New York Yankees stink is because of … Melky Cabrera.*
*WOW how bad a year is Melky Cabrera having? Historically bad. Put it this way: He has more than 400 at-bats and a sub-70 OPS+ (68 at last check). The last Yankees player to pull off that beautiful exacta: Alvaro Espinoza in 1990. Before that, it was Rafael Santana in 1988, Bobby Meacham in 1985 and Bucky Dent in 1979. That’s impressive enough. But then you wonder: Who was the last player to pull off the double who was not some weak-hitting middle infielder? That would be third baseman Jerry Kenney in 1970. And the last Yankees outfielder to do it? That would be the ancient Wee Willie Keeler in aught-7 when after years of hitting them where they ain’t, he started hitting them were they is (.234/.265/.255 — seven extra base hits in 423 at-bats).
No, it’s not all Cabrera either. It seems to me, looking over the numbers, it comes down to these:
– Yankees have hit into 12 more double plays than Minnesota.
– Both are good about not striking out, but Twins strike out a little less.
– The Twins lead the league in triples — Yankees are 11th.*
*That’s the difference of 20 triples, which is not insignificant. But I had one scout who watches the Twins all the time say that while he would never go so far as to say that triples are BETTER than home runs (Royals manager Tony Muser and others have said this about doubles) that he does think that nothing energizes an offense and brings a lineup together like triples. I have NO idea if there’s any truth to this, but it’s a fun theory anyway.
– BIG REASON: Twins hitting a ridiculous .313 with runners in scoring position. Yankees hitting a more human .260.
Inevitably, I suspect, it is this last one that really makes the difference — the Twins have maintained that absurd average with runners in scoring position all year long. Now, I’m not going to tell you that I’m crediting Gardy for the Twins having such a great average with runners in scoring position — even I’m not willing to go that far. That sort of average with RISP is a bit flukish and lucky and bordering on bizarre.
But I’m telling you, the guy has something to do with the mindset over there in Minnesota. As a friend of mine here in town says, all a baseball manager can really do is make sure that everyone is rowing in the same direction. That’s one of the all-time “sounds simple, is hard” tasks in the world. I always thought Joe Torre deserved loads of credit in New York because in that circus environment, with icebergs everywhere, he kept the ship going full steam ahead. I’ve never hidden my impressions of Tony La Russa as a game manager or guy, but he too just keeps the ship going. I cannot say I appreciate the way California Angels manager Mike Scoscia champions small-ball, but that team plays with purpose.
And in Minnesota, from the lowest minors all the way up they play one way: The pitchers throw strikes, the outfielders are athletes, everyone plays defense and the rest figures to work itself out. That’s an organizational philosophy, and it works. I would never say the Twins are winning BECAUSE of Gardy — they are winning because Joe Mauer is a catcher with a .415 on-base percentage (with the MVP race in the AL being wide open — shouldn’t he be in the mix?), because Justin Morneau is having a better year than his MVP season (even if the core numbers done show it), because Joe Nathan is the best closer in baseball*, because the rotation does throw strikes, because Adam Everett and Alexei Casilla probably make up the best defensive keystone combo in baseball.
*OK, so I know some people who seem to be considering — very seriously, I might add — voting for K-Rod as the American League MVP. The guy has thrown 58 innings this year — FIFTY EIGHT INNINGS — and they’re really thinking about it because of all the saves and whatever.
So, let me just get this out on the table right now — and I say this with all due respect to the year K-Rod is having, hey 53 saves already, good on ya, mate. But …
Innings
K-Rod: 58 1/3
Nathan: 57
Hits
K-Rod: 42
Nathan: 38
Walks
K-Rod: 29
Nathan: 13
Strikeouts
K-Rod: 67
Nathan: 62
Runs allowed (total)
K-Rod: 18
Nathan: 9
Earned runs allowed
K-Rod: 16
Nathan: 7
Blown saves
K-Rod: 5
Nathan: 3
ERA
K-Rod: 2.47
Nathan: 1.11
ERA+
K-Rod: 174
Nathan: 373
Um, picking K-Rod over JOE NATHAN just to close out the ninth would be a horrendous choice. Picking him as league MVP would be one of the all-timers. Don’t do it. PLEASE … just don’t do it.
So, of course it’s not Gardy. And let’s be clear: I’m not saying that Gardy could take the South Euclid Softball team and win the American League Central with it (Now, the National League West is another story). And I’m not saying that’s he’s the most brilliant baseball mind or the greatest motivator or the soundest game manager. I don’t know these things. All I am saying that Gardy is just a bang-beat, bell-ringing, big-hole, great-go, neck-or-nothing, rip-roarin’, every-time-a-bullseye manager. That’s Professor Gardenhire.
Loading ...
The Orioles also fell off the cliff after Davey left the scene.
+10 for the Music Man reference.
Minnesota’s reign of terror under Gardy
2002: 54-27 at home, 40-40 on the road
2003: 48-33 at home, 42-39 on the road
2004: 49-32 at home, 43-38 on the road
2005: 45-36 at home, 38-43 on the road
2006: 54-27 at home, 42-39 on the road
2007: 41-40 at home, 38-43 on the road
2008: 46-23 at home, 31-37 on the road
Gardenhire on the road in his managerial career: 274-279.
Oh, for good measure, in their last year under Tom Kelly:
2001: 47-34 at home, 38-43 on the road
So, ask yourself, is it really Gardy’s “genius” managing, or is it the Twins horrible ballpark that has seemingly always given them an advantage?
Is this really surprising? In 1991, last time they won it all, they were 51-30 at home and 44-37 on the road.
In 1987, when they won it all despite a negative run differential, they were 56-25 at home and an abyssmal 29-52 on the road.
What about the Minnesota front office? Haven’t they made excellent decisions regarding the team roster, bringing in players that seem like failures, but all they need is a change of environment (or are ready to finally step up for the first time)? I feel like the front office should be credited as much as Gardenhire for their recent successes.
Reading through the descriptions of what Johnson did well in Cincinnati reminds me a lot of Gardenhire — he does many (if not all) of the same things for the Twins.
The guys who criticize Gardy for his decisionmaking don’t seem to notice that many, and in some cases all, managers make the same moves. Nathan should come in to pitch the 8th in a close game? Who else besides Torre does this? I’d bet every fan in baseball could name a player his manager appears to favor that the fan doesn’t see value in. (David Eckstein, anyone?)
And much as I hate to point it out, your tally of K-Rod v. Nathan should be updated — Nathan’s blown two saves in his last three outings to match K-Rod’s total. Even so, I’d still take Nathan over K-Rod in anything but a ten-year keeper league starting tomorrow (and even that’s probably pushing it).
Yeah, K-Rod’s gettin’ the saves record but he hasn’t pitched great… just what you need. Nathan, has pitched far better and I’m glad you pointed that out with numbers. I’m actually shocked there’s people who are seriously considering voting for K-Rod as MVP. It never crossed my mind. Maybe I’m just biased though from living in the Rochester, NY area (read: center of the Twins AAA universe).
That’s a pretty impressive RISP the Twinkies have going on. Your point there made me look up some related numbers… you probably already know this, but some of your readers might be interested in knowing that the diff between Yanks & Twins offense goes beyond RISP…
With men on any base, the OBP is:
Twins: .368
Yanks: .347
With a man on 3rd, the OBP is:
Twins: .384
Yanks: .360
…so when the Twins hit one of those triples they’re so good at, there’s a 38.4% chance the next batter will get on base. Even if that’s just a walk, the Twins next batter has a 39.6% chance of getting on base (when runners on 1 & 3)… even higher than the last guy’s situational OBP!! This is a crazy offense in Minnesota! Their chance of scoring just keeps getting better after a triple.
The Yanks on the other hand… if they get a man on 3rd, there’s a 36% chance the next guy gets on base. Even if that’s a walk, their OBP goes down slightly to .356. If that batter gets by a walk or single and loads the bases, the Yanks OBP drops even lower… to .323.
They start with a lower OBP than the Twins and just drop from there as more men reach base… whereas the Twins start high and just keep upping the OBP as each man reaches.
I think that’s more evidence that Gardy gets his team in a better mindset.
Devon:
He must be using Mrs. Gardenhire’s world famous homemade meatloaf to get them into their mindset, because it certainly doesn’t seem to translate on the road.
I’ll see your Everett/Casilla keystone, and raise you John McDonald/Aaron Hill (yes, I know Hill is done for the year with concussion symptoms) as the best defensive keystone in baseball.
We know John McCain would vote for K-Rod.
Geez, I thought the rumors of K-Rod as Cy Young were absurd enough in the face of Halladay and Lee…..but MVP?! That would be one of five worst MVP selections of all time, no question.
I think AL MVP comes down to Quentin vs. Mauer, so the winner might be the one who plays for the team that takes the title.
OK, so I’m a lifelong Red Sox fan. Still, when I read this …
You could just see how relaxed the players were, how confident they were even after a couple of losses. He seemed to rest guys just when they needed it, he moved around his lineup without irritating the players, he kept everyone in the bullpen busy and somewhat contented. He allowed players to hit their way through slumps and pitch their way through rough patches, but he also did not hesitate to make changes when they had to be made. He gave stars enough respect that they played hard for him, but he also gave the backups the feeling that he believed in them and expected them to come through.
… it sounds like Terry Francona.
But I don’t know that I’ve ever thought that before.
I don’t know what it is about Gardy, but there’s no way the front office should get credit for making excellent decisions in bringing in washed up players when it’s been Lamb, Monroe, Livan, Rondell White, Ramon Ortiz and Tony Batista in just the last few years alone. And while they might be able to live off of the Liriano/Nathan/Bonser trade for awhile, the Santana & Garza deals don’t look good on the early returns. It boggles the mind.
@Johnny: I think he gave them credit when he talked about the approach they take from the bottom all the way up. He just loves Gardy.
Speaking of the K-Rod/Nathan debate
Joe: I have request. Please give us your thoughts on the use of Soria. I know you’ve been at the bottom of the hole in my backyard for the last month. But, i’m sure you have resources. You can research.
Kudos on the Music Man reference, and whoever said K-Rod would be a top 5 worst MVP choice ever I think is being too kind. It might be the worst choice ever. K-Rod is not one of the 5 best closers in baseball, maybe not a top 5 in the AL (off the top of my head, clearly Nathan, Rivera, Papelbon and Soria have been better int eh AL). This would be like the Shannon Stewart votes. hell, some people are touting Delgado for MVP in NL if the Mets win the division, and I’m a Met fan and think it’s ridiculous — but it wouldn’t be half as bad as a K-Rod selection….
Steve from Cleve …
Home teams are 1,126-906 this year. The two best teams in baseball, Tampa Bay and the Cubs, are a combined three games over .500 on the road.
Nearly every team plays better at home, for a variety of reasons. But Gardy’s win-loss on the road is far better than the league average.
Mike L -
We aren’t talking about “league average” managers. We are debating whether or not Gardy is some sort of supergenius manager. To me, a manager of that much skill shouldn’t be under .500 on the road during his tenure.
Contrast this with Joe Torre, whose Yankees were BETTER on the road in 1997, 1999, and 2003. In 2006, they were 50-31 at home and 47-34 on the road. In 2002, they were 52-28 at home and 51-30 on the road. In 2000 they were 44-36 at home and 43-38 on the road.
Bobby Cox is a great manager, right? In his first full year, 1991, the Braves were only two games worse on the road. In 1992, they were 4 games worse on the road. In 1993, they were two games better on the road. In 1994, they were four games better on the road. In 1995, they were two games better on the road. Do you see where I’m going with this?
Or look at Eric Wedge. Most Indians fans think he’s a blitheringly incompetent manager who should be immediately fired. His 2007 Indians were .5 games behind the Red Sox for the best road record in the AL and his 2005 team was 7 games better on the road than they were at home. And this guy is never given credit for being even a GOOD manager, let alone someone fantastic.
The Gardenhire that has an amazing home record isn’t a mirage, and that is part of who he is as a manager, just like the 2000 Rockies are partially the team who scored 7.81 runs per game at home. But that Rockies team much more closely resembled the squad that scored 4.14 runs per game on the road, and I bet when Gardenhire is finished and we put his “legacy” into proper context, he will look more like the guy with a sub-.500 record on the road than the guy with the impeccable home record.
As a Twins fan who reads this blog frequently, I feel I should chime in.
I think your assessment is pretty accurate. And David Wintheiser is completely correct in saying that every manager in the big leagues probably doesn’t use their closer when they should, and every manager in the big leagues has at least one player on their team that they feel strongly for. In Gardy’s case, it’s Nick Punto.
I think Gardy deserves a lot of credit for this season. The Twins front office once again made some bad free-agent signings (these signings rarely seem to work out for the Twins). But through it all, Gardy’s had this team playing good baseball.
Pitching coach Rick Anderson deserves tons of credit, too. I’m not sure what the numbers are, but I’d guess since Anderson took over around 2001 or 2002, the Twins have been among the top teams in ERA each season. This no-name rotation has done a great job this year.
I would like to point out that you mention Cuddyer in the outfield. He’s provided very little to the Twins this year due to injuries, making this season’s run even more impressive. And the Casilla-Everett combo isn’t what it sounds like. Everett’s lost a lot of arm strength due to the shoulder problems. Punto-Casilla is the more frequent up-the-middle combo, and they’ve been pretty tough. For all his offensive struggles, Punto does an outstanding job defensively.
I really thought this was a fourth-place team this year. I give Gardy and Rick Anderson a ton of credit for what’s happened.
Steve- you’re making Joe’s point for him. Comparing the team Gardy has to the teams Torre managed is a major compliment to Gardy. Yes, those Yankee teams were good on the road. They also had the best players in baseball. Buddy Bell would have won on the road with the Yankees in the years you mentioned.
Wade – I’m not comparing those teams to these Twins. There is no comparison. The difference is, those Yankee teams were great at home AND on the road. I’m not comparing the road record for the 98 Yankees to the 2003 Twins, that would be ridiculous, the 98 Yankees are a far, far better team. I’m comparing the road record of the 98 Yankees (and all the other Joe Torre Yankee teams and the Bobby Cox Braves teams) to the home record of those same teams and then comparing THAT ratio to the home to road ratio of the Twins.
There is no comparison. The Joe Torre Yankees were great at home and on the road. The Bobby Cox Braves were great at home and on the road. The Gardy Twins? Great at home, not so great on the road. How is that any different from the 87 Twins, or the 91 Twins?
If Gardy were a truly amazing manager who greatly improved his teams, he would be better than .500 on the road, just like if the 2000 Rockies were a truly great offense, they’d score more than 4.14 runs per game on the road.
Gardy is a good manager. Probably better than Wedge, probably one of the 5 best in the majors, but how many more wins would the Royals have with Gardy? One. Two, maybe. Three at most.
There are only 6 MLB teams with a road winning pct. of .500 or better this year.
That Gardenhire is essentially at .500 over 550 games should be an argument in his FAVOR.
I think thats pretty good.
Ahh… the Davey Johnson years. How we miss ye.
So… I think everyone agrees that Davey was a good manager. So where the heck is he? Why are stiffs like Jim Riggleman and Dusty Baker still getting jobs while a proven guy like Johnson does what, consults for the Nationals? Its been almost 10 years since he was fired by the Dodgers. Does he have baseball cooties?
OK, this is cranky but it is a cranky morning:
Hi Joe, we all know you’re happily married to a woman & have nice kids — do you really think you have to describe your feelings for Carlos Beltran as a “man crush”. Who would think differently of you if you said you had a “crush” on Beltran? Why should you care? Is there a more stupid & distancing-from-others term out there today than “man crush”? A more stupid attempt to say “I’m cool but I’m not gay”?
And besides, Beltran played on Kansas City a good long time ago. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to describe your feelings for him as “love”. Oh no! Not “man love”!
Fran
everyone agrees that Davey was a good manager. So where the heck is he?
Davey has a knack for getting under the skin of the front office/management. That whole “good at his job & knows it” thing. See also Martin, William; Valentine, Robert. Hell even McCarthy & Stengle bounced around some before latching onto The Borg.
Also, in fairness, Davey’s relaxed attitude can turn into laissez faire complacency. As a Met fan I remember their hungry, daring, aggressive manager in ‘84 turning into a bit of a lazy-boes who disdained defense, baserunning, & other fundamentals by ‘89-’90. As much as I hated it at the time, the Mets unlikely run for the division in ‘90 probably wouldn’t have happened under Johnson.
If you look at the numbers, that’s the prototype of the high scoring team who had no reason to be so high scoring:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/1990.shtml
Behind Darryl Strawberry, Dave Magadan, and a patchwork lineup of Daryl Boston, Mackey Sasser, & other such non-notables, they led the MAJORS in runs scored.
But I digress (badly). The point is that by 1990, Davey couldn’t have accomplished that. Too stale in his thinking.
All that said, the dude was a helluva manager; playoffs with four different teams, right?
Rivera too has been better than K-Rod:
61.7 inn
37 hits
6 walks
70 ks
10 r
10er
1 blown save
1.46 era
291 era+
I thought I had Gardy in a box when he kept insisting he wanted Span on the big league team. Span was never all that impressive in the minors and seemed destined to fail, but Gardy apparently saw something, and now looks like a genius. So I give Gardy the benefit of the doubt on head-scratching decisions (to a point.)
Wayne’s World reference in the title, no?
HE’S A FAKE, AND HE DOESN’T KNOW THE TERRITORY!
I think the biggest key to the Twins run of success can be found in the stability of their management. Not just the manager on the field, but throughout the organization and front office. I cannot say that I like Carl Pohlad. How any fan could like an owner who voted to contract his own team is beyone me. But it needs to be said that the man is good at running a business. He has hired good baseball people and kept them around without interfering with their jobs.
Tom Kelly became manager in 1986 and won 2 World Series. After he retired, Gardy took over. Tom Kelly still works with the younger players, helping to mold them into the kind of players the Twins like. The Twins former GM, Terry Ryan, worked from managing a Twins ProShop (a retail store selling apparel and such things) all the way up to the GM job, where he was by all accounts, one of the best in the game. When he stepped down this winter, he became a scout for the organization again. I think that says a lot for how the team treats its decision makers.
The Twins have had such consistency in their message and technique in molding their players that credit needs to be given to Carl Pohlad (as much as I loathe to do so) for not changing managers when the team has a few bad seasons in a row, or dumping the GM when a trade or two goes bad. I don’t get it when I see all these other teams hiring and firing managers and front office personnel. How can you build something when you’re constantly knocking down your own system? I know it’s easier said than done to just surround yourself with good baseball people and let them do their jobs, but that is what the Twins have done, and I think that is what has led to their success.
And having Gardy on your side doesn’t hurt either.
Jim Souhan:
“Everywhere I went at the Beijing Olympics, people stopped me to ask about the Twins. And that was just the Chinese.
The question most often asked was, “How are the Twins doing it?”
The easy answer is that this is a miracle.”
So I’m not so sure anymore that Terry Ryan used to work at a Twins Pro shop. I’m convinced I read it somewhere, but I’ve been looking for it and can’t find any record of it. I guess it’s one of those things where my memory has combined two separate things into one. Sorry for any confusion.
You can talk, you can bicker, you can talk you can bicker you can talk, talk, talk, talk, bicker, bicker, bicker.
Couple things – Thanks Joe, been a long time since I blushed.
Steve from Cleve – I don’t know, his road record looks pretty damn good to me considering the cards he’s been dealt but I agree with the notion that the Twins unique stadium may have something to do with the extraordinary home success. Fran? I’d say the other side of the bed is where you should get up.
Gardy has a lot of strong points as a manager, and probably many more than from what I can see just watching the games. But… the thing he does that drives me crazy, even more than his use of Nathan, is how he protects Nathan by misusing the guys ahead of him. He considers middle relievers to be completely disposable. On Gardy’s watch, J.C. Romero, Juan Rincon and Pat Neshek have all burned out from overwork. (You may laugh about Romero, but he was the best pitcher on the staff in ‘02.)
This year, with Neshek on the shelf, he’s gassed Matt Guerrier and Jesse Crain, who aren’t even that good to begin with. You could criticize management for not giving him more relief help, but still, Gardenhire rides his set-up guys till they drop. It was especially a shame with Neshek, because in addition to that whacked delivery, the kid had a good arm.
Other thoughts: The commenter who mentioned continuity as a Twins strength is spot on. When Pohlad and Selig were angling to contract the team after ‘01, Terry Ryan held things together. Rather than bolt for a different job, Ryan rode it out, and that leadership by example convinced everyone else — from the baseball people to the PR people and office help — to stay, too.
Back to today, the Twins are fading a bit because that awesome RISP hitting is finally regressing to the mean. But as for how they’re doing it, it’s mainly that they have a bunch of young players who as a group have made slight to significant improvement. And I mean young: Delmon Young (who’s hit well since June) is just short of 23, Span, Casilla, Slowey and Liriano are 24, Mauer and Perkins are 25, Kubel and Blackburn are 26, Baker is about to turn 27 and Morneau is 27.
The Twins are lucky in the sense that, unlike the Rays, they weren’t planning to contend this year. Watching this team regularly, I’ve convinced of that. But injuries/bad offseason moves forced them to go to Span, Casilla, Buscher and Perkins, and they’ve all come through. And the rotation settled down after a rough start. (And yes, Rick Anderson deserves credit there.)
The Twins probably don’t have quite enough to make the postseason in ‘08, but the future is bright. Hopefully Billy Smith doesn’t screw it up…
Hayden,
Not to turn this into a mutual admiration society or anything, but I agree with your points about Rick Anderson — if he doesn’t become recognized as this generation’s Leo Mazzone, something’s wrong.
Justyo – I think the talent of the Twins is generally underplayed (people sometimes act like he’s taking a collection of vagabonds and molding them into a championship team, but the 2008 Twins have a lot of good players, and so did the 2002 Twins, and every team in-between), but I’d agree, I bet you that a road record of just under ,500 for a 7 year period is pretty good for a manager, but it isn’t amazing, it isn’t transcendent, it’s not extraordinary.
I think Gardy is a very good manager, but I don’t think he’s the supergenius that Joe wants him to be.
The Twins infield drills during spring training are apparently grueling in the extreme. They have a name for it that I can’t remember, but it is often cited as one of the ways that Twins players are molded.
Long-time Twins fan, here, who thinks Gardy is OK (maybe even pretty good). Three annoying things about Gardy:
1. Misuse of bullpen (as many others have pointed out).
2. Getting ejected from games. He clearly thinks this is a way to protect his players or fire up his players. I think his act is getting old.
3. Worst hardware store commercials in the history of commercials.
One subtle but significant move that I think Gardy was part of is relacing Ullger with Vavra as hitting coach.
I saw a graphic just now on NESN that showed three of the top five starting pitchers in strike % pitch for the Twins (all over 66%). Just another thing that could explain their record – though I also agree that the Metrodome is a HUGE factor.
Hello Joe,
My name is Daniel and I work for The International Business Times, the leading online business news publication. We have a total of 12 editions worldwide in seven different languages. The international edition, which I work for is the biggest edition. (www.ibtimes.com)
We are just about to launch our new Sport section and wanted to know if you’d be interested in being featured as our Golf expert or Columnist. The reach of our new Sport Section will be broad and will be offered to a broad Sport audience, including global business leaders and executives. We hope to bring new elements to our Sport Section, including articles in various languages and exclusive content.
Please take a look at our site and let me know if this is something you’d be interested in. I’ll be glad to discuss with you via email or phone further details. Thank you and I look forward to your reply.
Sincerely,
Daniel Eriksson
Reporter
+1 (415) 367 4479 Phone
+1 (415) 772 5648 Fax
Two things worth noting are that the Twins OF has mainly faetured Denard Span, and not Michael Cuddyer this year, who has been hurt the majority of the year. Not that it makes mch of a difference, but I figure Span deserves some credit for the rookie showing he’s having.
Also, while I am one of the Twins fans that doesn’t think Gardy deserves most of the negatives fans give out here in Minnesota, I think that you should mention the real lynch pin in the entire coaching staff … one Rick Anderson. The job he does, year in and year out, whether it’s with Cy Yioung winners or a bunch of baby faced no names, is exceptional.
You want Joe as a golf columnist!?!
Hahahahaha!
I’d like to hear one good reason why the Dome — as opposed to any other home park — is such an advantage to the Twins. People always say this; but you never hear any concrete reasons (at least, ones that make sense).
The astro turf is gone; it’s been field turf for years — so the “crazy bounces” argument doesn’t work.
The white roof argument — please. That’s maybe a couple of balls a year — equal to the amount lost in the sun at an outdoor stadium, if that.
Crowd noise: maybe a factor in the Series, but the Twins don’t average enough fans during the year to make a difference.
Can anyone give me something on this?
By the way — first Sports Illustrated, now golf for the International Business Times — next week, the White House! Go Joe!
Joe,
Love it when you talk about the mid-90’s Reds. As a huge fan who grew up in Cincinnati during that time, what can I do to write more about that?
THis is TOTALLY off the wall and does not relate to anything in this article. It just struck a chord when talking about K-Rod for MVP.
Here is a guaranteed bet for a free beer, $10, $20 or whatever you can finagle. Who was the last switch hitter to win the MVP? (I think this is still relevent, but wouldn’t argue with anyone) I would love to let you all stew on this and frantically check the stat books, but I cant help myself.
DRUM ROLL PLEASE,,,,,
Vida Blue, 1973, Oakland A’s and the last year before the DH became part of the game. I always fall off my stool when downing that beer. (depends how obnoxious the shill has been to that point as far as financial renumeration,,,LOL)
Asta Dog — I’m sure it was just an oversight but you’re going to have to change the wording of the question to “AL MVP” if you want to keep downing those free beers. Willie McGee, Ken Caminiti, Terry Pendleton, and Chipper Jones all won the NL MVP batting from both sides since Vida Blue did it in 1971.
And to a previous commenter…. “William” Martin??
NL MVP Jimmy Rollins as well.
Right on. Managing is one of the most difficult, most underappreciated jobs in the whole world. Especially in the circus that is pro sports.
Also, I pray to whatever god is out there that they don’t give an MVP award to K-Rod. His stats aren’t great for a guy who only pitches an inning a game every few games. He’s just in a perfect storm position to generate saves. Please don’t give it to him. (although, maybe they should so the Angels don’t sign him and instead give the money to Texeira or someone else)
First of all, I think that “man-crush” is a perfectly acceptable phrase. There are plenty of guys I know that use it and haven’t ever heard anyone complain about it.
All the credit goes to Gardy. The Twins front office has made some great moves over the years, but the Twins are competing right now without Santana or Hunter.
“Dave
I’d like to hear one good reason why the Dome — as opposed to any other home park — is such an advantage to the Twins. People always say this; but you never hear any concrete reasons (at least, ones that make sense).”
It’s the depression factor of the Dome and that the Twins are so young. It’s kind of like if you got expelled from Harvard with 1 semester left and were forced to go to Lower New England Community College—you’d be freaked out. Whereas if you’d gone to the community college for your whole education , you wouldn’t even notice how messed up it really is. That’s how these young Twins probably feel when they’re at home. Likewise, when the Yankees come in from Yankee Stadium and play in the Dome, it’s gotta be hard to be motivated and sharp.
Wade: Before you laugh at Joe’s potential employment as a golf columnist, I suggest you read his piece on Tiger Woods at this site.
The man can write about anything, and do it exceedingly well.
David NYC: you missed the point. Of all the things Joe writes about, golf is one of the rarest. I was laughing at the offer made in the comments of his website. Definitely not a jab at the brilliant author of this site.
What about the late, lamented Bat Girl and her NSMC t-shirts? (non-sexual man crush)? I think it’s a fine term, and it’s not so much “OMG IM NOT GAYYYY” as it is bashful. I find it charming.
As for the Dome advantage, what about the rumor that the facilities crew strategically blow the air currents in favorable directions? I know, I’m stretching it here.
my first non-Mets player shirt was a Joe Mauer shirt. But I learned about the Twins because I loved and worshipped Bat Girl.
Larry Ano – Love it! The metrodome indeed depresses. I’m going to get depressed twice this next weekend. Hopefully, the Twinkies will beat down the lethargic Tigers.
I believe Baseball prospectus had the Twins somewhere around 78-84 this year.
Seriously though, how many more games would the Twins have won with Pat Neshek in the lineup. 5? 10? The 7th and 8th have been murder for the Twins this second half!
Wade: Sorry for the misinterpretation. Hard to pick up subtlety and tone in print comments.
But I would love to see Joe write a regular golf column. Most golf writing nowadays is pablum. There’s nobody remotely close to either Dan Jenkins or Herbert Warren Wind, but Joe might be able to do that.
Stu in Iowa: You’re really going to say that Pat Neshek is worth 10 wins? Grady Sizemore is barely even worth 10 wins.
Check this chart out of dominating seasons by closers…http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=080805/greatseasons …’08 Soria, ‘08 Rivera, and ‘08 Nathan are there but the Frankie of 2008 ain’t even on it. He ain’t even one of the best 3 closers in his league this year!
In fact, at this point in the season there’s 5 AL closers with a better ERA, better WHIP, less runs allowed, less earned runs allowed, and better ERA+, than Frankie! They are Soria, Nathan, Papelbon, Rivera, and Jenks. I’d be willing to bet all 5 have less blown saves than K-Rod too.
Jimmy Rollins, switch hitter, was NL MVP last year.
K-Rod should not and will not be AL MVP this year. Nor will he be AL Cy Young Award winner. But he is still an awfully good reliever who is likely to set the all time record for single season saves. And he has done so without a lot of blown saves; even with today’s flub he’s running about 90% successful, and my rule of thumb is anything over 80% is worth having in a closer.
Yes, Nathan and Rivera are having better years by any measures other than saves. And yet, if saves were not important, were not counted, are not considered to be the highest stress situation possible for a pitcher, why is every team in baseball seeking not only a closer specialist, but also a closer specialist in training (usually called the 8th inning guy) in case the closer gets injured? Why are some guys who throw fewer than half the innings of Brian Bannister being paid so very very well? So it seems that baseball accepts and rewards players for their ability to cope with the stress of pitching late innings with the game on the line. And at that, K-Rod has done very very well, with an enormously high percentage of his innings coming in save situations, far higher than any other pitcher listed.
Do I think Nathan or Rivera is having a better season that K-Rod? Almost certainly… except that they aren’t doing it in as tough an environment. K-Rod has pitched 60.3 innings after tonight, with 54 saves and six blown saves. That looks like 100% of his outings came in save situations. So that’s got to be tougher on him. How much tougher? I don’t know. But the Angels have a better record than the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Twins or definitely the Royals, and some of that has to be the closer and the job he has done. I mean, even in the arguable the best relief pitcher year ever, when Gagne won the had zero blown saves and won the CYA, he still pitched in 22 games where there was no save opportunity. So better than one game in four he wasn’t facing the pressure of losing a game his team had won. He did have three losses that year, and two wins.
Again, a terrible idea for KRod to be either MVP or CYA, but he does not deserve being treated the way he has been here for the excellent job he has done. It’s not like he’s Dave Goltz.