Bargain Books!
Posted: July 9th, 2008 | Filed under: Baseball | 60 Comments »
Well,we have more or less stopped doing our shameless book promotions because, you know, you may have heard, have I mentioned that I’m working on a new book now, about the 1975 Reds, the Big Red Machine, Rose, Concepcion,* Morgan, Perez, Griffey, Geronimo**, Foster, Bench, Gullett, Nolan, Billingham, Norman, Darcy, Borbon, Carroll, McEnaney, Eastwick and the rest … I’m in the “Holy cow, I dreamt about those guys last night and isn’t THAT frightening” stage of the book writing.
*Quick word about Concepcion: I’ve received several emails lately asking about Omar Vizquel and if I think he is a Hall of Famer. It’s a touchy subject for me because I’m a big Vizquel fan for all the obvious Cleveland reasons, and I think he certainly has a compelling enough case with the 11 gold gloves and 2,600-plus hits and 1,350 runs scored and so on. He has quite a few big name Hall of Fame supporters right now — Peter Gammons is a big fan, Tracy Ringolsby too — and I suspect there will be a pretty overpowering campaign for him when he’s Hall eligible.
And it makes me a little sad that Dave Concepcion never had that campaign. I firmly believe Davey was a better player than Vizquel. It makes me a little sad because I have never voted for Concepcion, not even this past year which I believe was his last year of eligibility. I’ve thought about him hard, respected the career a lot, but being brutally honest I always thought he fell just a touch short, and anyway I’ve been much more interested in another shortstop, Alan Trammell, who I think was a better player than either of those guys.
But the interest in Vizquel (along with my vivid Reds dreams) has made me go back and realize that Concepcion really was a unique player in his time. First off, he was a brilliant defensive shortstop — his fielding numbers are off the charts. Bill James rated him an A+ defender in his Win Shares book (Vizquel, controversially, was rated a B-). And while Range Factor obviously has its quirks and flaws, it’s worth noting that five times in Concepcion’s career he had a 5.00 range factor or higher (Vizquel, and I couldn’t quite believe this, NEVER had a 5.00 range factor).
People will point out that Concepcion won five Gold Gloves to Vizquel’s 11, but this is purely the Ozzie factor … Vizquel won five gold gloves after he turned 32. Concepcion won none because Ozzie Smith had arrived … Vizquel doesn’t win any of those against Ozzie either.
But it’s offense where I think Concepcion has a big, big advantage over Vizquel. Their core numbers will not show this:
Concepcion: .267/.322/.357, 389 doubles, 48 triples, 101 homers, 993 runs, 950 RBIs, 321 stolen bases, 88 OPS+.
Vizquel: .272/.338/.355, 419 doubles, 71 triples, 77 homers, 1,350 runs, 878 RBIs, 383 stolen bases, 83 OPS+.
Looking at those numbers in context, it looks like a wash or an edge to Vizquel — he played longer and his OPS+ is lower, but he did score 350 more runs, and he has 300 or so more hits and he stole 62 more bases.
But here’s the thing: Concepcion in addition to his defensive prowess was very much an offensive shortstop in his time, and Vizquel absolutely was not. Runs created shows this best:
Vizquel is -197 runs created above average which obviously is not good.
Concepcion is -165 runs creative above average, which ain’t much better.
BUT …
Vizquel is -15 runs created above POSITION. That is, even when you compare him only to shortstops, he was slightly below average as a hitter. Sure, he played in the time of A-Rod, Jeter, Nomah, Larkin and the rest, but that’s the point. The game changed, and shortstops were expected to hit, and Omar was a slight offensive liability for much of his career. Vizquel had only one year where his RCAP was +20 or better — that was his outstanding 1999 season when he was +31.
Concepcion? He’s +126 runs created above position. He had SIX seasons where his RCAP was +20 or better. That means that for his time he was not only a good hitting shortstop, he was really an EXCELLENT hitting shortstop. Going back to 1920, Concepcion ranks 15th all-time in RCAP among shortstops who played 1,500 or more games … he’s well behind the greatest hitting shortstops like Larkin, Jeter, Trammell, Yount and he’s also behind Ozzie. But he’s much better than some of the other great defensive shortstops like Aparicio, Marion, Rizzuto and, of course, Omar.
This is not to say that Concepcion is a Hall of Famer … as I already mentioned I think he probably falls just short. I think Trammell has a more compelling case, and I think Larkin who will be eligible soon has a much more compelling case (I think Barry Larkin should be a slam dunk, first ballot guy … we’ll get to that at the appropriate time). But I think Concepcion was a great player, and he’s a significantly better Hall candidate than Omar, and I am already pre-raging for the Omar hype that seems inevitable in five years.
**Quick word about Cesar Geronimo … I will be in Cincinnati in about 10 days for his induction into the Reds Hall of Fame. He’s going in to the Hall with Cincinnati native Barry Larkin, which is fitting … Geronimo never did headline anything his whole life. But Chief, as they called him, was an amazing defensive centerfielder, he did have a really nice year in ‘76, and he also completes the circle — every member of the Great Eight will now be in the Reds Hall.
OK, see, this is the problem with this blog. I started to write a shameless book promotion and unless you were gullible enough to actually click on any of those links, you don’t even know what it is. Instead you got like 1,000 words on Dave Concepcion. I’ve got to be the worst salesman in the world. I’d be like that car salesman who tries to sell you a new Chevy and would instead end up buying your watch for way too much money and offering to mow your lawn.
So, let’s try this again. My first book, “The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O’Neil’s America” is available for $5.99 again at Amazon. I have to say it always makes me sad to think that the book I worked on for two years about one of the great Americans can’t sell for $5.99. Last time there were bargain books, you guys sold them out and got me all the way up to 283 on the Amazon number. Let’s see if we can get into the Top 100 this time. It wouldn’t make me any money, but it would be a thrill.
And the offer still stands: If you promise to buy a cheap-o book, I promise to be your Facebook friend, with all the benefits and privileges that come with that.
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Okay Joe, you sold me. Now I only have to spend $19 more for Super Saver Shipping! Talk about a sucker. Any recommendations?
Bought 4.
Heh. I already bought a copy, but a second copy couldn’t hurt. I’m sure it’ll make a great gift.
I know it was a throwaway line and you are gonna get back to it one of these days, but I just don’t see Barry Larkin as a slam-dunk, first ballot guy for the Hall of Fame. He was a fantastic player, and I think he will get in, just not on the first ballot.
Looking at his 1995 MVP season always makes me wonder from year to year what the BBWAA votes for. It was an impressive season, to be sure, but he may not have even been the most valuable guy on his own team that year (Ron Gant and Reggie Sanders were outstanding in 1995) let alone the whole National League (Maddux, Bichette, Piazza, Bonds, etc…). He had better seasons in 1991 and 1996 but finished 17th and 12th, respectively, in MVP voting those years. So in 1995 they voted for him because he was a shortstop and because the Reds finished in first. Fine. No problem with that. But it seems to change from year to year with the voters is all I’m saying.
Don’t know where I was going with that, but I think Larkin might get some initial resistance to the Hall and make it in after a year or two.
The book, as expected, is great.
buy a dang ol’ book if you haven’t already, it is a great read.
I’ve been awaiting your 1975 Reds book, but I totally forgot that I still hadn’t read your Buck O’Neill book. So how do I go about receiving the honor of being your facebook friend?
I bought a copy a week ago for my dad for a belated Father’s Day gift. Now you’ve convinced me to buy myself a copy.
Yes, I agree with Jimmy; how might we go about the Facebook thingy?
I read the blog for nearly a year before I bought the book, and I wish I had bought it sooner. The first chapter–”Autumn had come for Willie Mays”–is legitimately one of the 100 best things I’ve ever read anywhere. It’s also clearly one of the best five baseball books I’ve ever read.
Joe,
Sadly, after doing what I thought was a pretty good sales job to my wife that for either Father’s Day or My 40th Birthday even from my in-laws, that “Soul” would be the perfect gift, I was left empty handed. I am going to buy your book myself. Does it do you or the Negro League Museum any good if I buy it there? Never mind you will neve answer that question.
Thanks for your brilliant Blog.
Joe–I bought 3 of the Buck O’Neil books at full price when it came out (one of which you signed for me –thanks) and felt like they were a bargain then. My Dad got one, my stepson in New York got one, and I kept one for myself (which I’ve loaned to numerous friends–sorry Joe, no royalties there.) Everyone thinks it’s great but each for different reasons—-the mark of a really good book: reaching each reader in a very personal, emotional place. Looking forward to the Reds book. PS. I feel guilty about getting all these blog gems free—-I’d pay. DG
Joe,
I’m a long time Tiger fan – my first year of being “aware” of them was the summer Trammell and Lou Whitaker came up; so, naturally, I have a certain affinity for both of them. I’d love to see them both in the HOF, but if I’m really being honest with myself, they probably both fall just short of deserving enshrinement – they belong in the Hall of Very Good.
But one thing that drives me nuts is the love Trammell gets at the expense of Sweet Lou. It seems clear to me that Whitaker was the better player:
276/363/426 OPS+ 116
285/352/415 OPS+ 110
It also bears mentioning that Whitaker had better counting stats, across the board, aside from SB.
So then, given your professed love for Trammell, what do you think of Whitaker?
KCJOE – I would imagine the NLBM would benefit from you buying it there, but a better idea would be to buy it on Amazon and then donate the other $14 (for a total of $20) to NLBM that it would probably cost there.
EVERYONE – There are a couple other Bargain Books for baseball. I just bought 3 of Joe’s for gifts, and I got a book by Jonathon Eig on Jackie Robinson’s first season for $6. Another book that I already own is The Baseball Economist on sale for $6. And if any of you play poker, Phil Gordon’s Little Green Book is on sale for $7. Now you can get Super Saver shipping if you spend .04 more cents!
Joe,
I bought “Soul of Baseball” a couple of weeks ago at Barnes & Noble. Read it in two sittings. Great book, and I’m looking forward to the Reds book (even though I was a Bosox fan in ‘75).
The fact that Whitaker never got any support (literally) is one of the most baffling HOF quirks ever.
And Larkin, of all the SSs that have retired, is a top-5 all-time shortstop (top 6 if you include Jeter, I suppose; and A-Rod will probably play more games at 3rd than SS). He should be a slam dunk, but he probably won’t be because the voters are stupid and he played in Cincinnati, not Boston, NY, or LA.
I never tire of reading about the shortstops of my youth. Concepcion, Mark Belanger, Bill Russell, Larry Bowa, and of course my favorite Freddie Patek.
Oh, and Davey…
Odd candidate. One one hand I don’t think he belong anywhere near the HOF–his numbers just don’t merit his inclusion. Neither his cumulative numbers nor his per unit numbers are HOF numbers, unless we’re comparing him to the bottom-of-the-barrel, Joe Tinker types.
But on the other hand, I sometimes think he should be a sure-fire HOF because he was the best player in his league, at his position, for about an entire decade. Those types of players almost always get elected, and elected easily. I can’t really think of another player that has these two characteristics, but I’m sure they exist.
Enough Joe! Isn’t it enough that I not only bought it for my dad on father’s day, but received it from my kids that same father’s day?
When Omar’s HOF supporters get going in five years, what will be the reasoning behind his bizarre 14 HR outburst in 2002? To me that stat line resonates more than Barry’s 73 HR’s as a signal of the steriod era in baseball.
I already bought it and we are facebook friends so there’s nothing in this for me.
Being I got into baseball in ‘82, I never really saw Concepcion in his prime. The two best fielding shortstops I’ve ever seen, are Omar Vizquel and The Wizard. Although, I’m always hearing people who watched the game in the 70’s rave on and on about Concepcion, while hearing others rave on and on about how he’s not quite a Hall of Famer. I’ve heard people go on about Mark Belanger too, but not like they do about Davey. I’ve seen the famous clips of Brooks Robinson in the 1970 World Series, but never really seen any of Concepcion’s D. I’ve heard how he played the rug well with the one-hop throws that you could never do before the astroturf. I’ve even seen clips of Belanger’s D. To me, all the talk about Concepcion’s defense is just that – all talk. I believe it was great, but it doesn’t really mean much to me since I’ve never seen it. That’s probably why he’s not a HOFer…. bad marketing. I really like the point you made about RCAP’s. I’d never heard that about him before… people usually just tell me his lack of punch in the offense is what keeps him from being in Cooperstown.
Unfortunately Joe, you seem like one of the voters who upsets me by voting everyone and their mother into the hall. (Not really)
If it was up to me, only a handful or two would make first ballot. That should be a serious honor and not something that occurs regularly.
Guys who can’t hit the average of their time and/or position should be in the hall except for special circumstances. I doubt I would be voting for Ozzie myself although his fielding may be that special circumstance. Way way way too many get into the Hall. For some reason I think people feel the need to elect at least one person a year. I know that years have gone by with no one elected but usually someone is in and usually multiple players.
Hey, since Congress has already banned the futures market for onions (not a joke, this happened back in the ’50s) and is talking about doing the same for oil, is there any chance we could get in on a futures market for the new book? Perhaps there is some way we could purchase a copy before it hits the bookstores or something cool like that?
If you haven’t read the book you need to. It’s a good one.
As a child of the Big Red Machine, Davey was my favorite player. My reasoning, however, was appropriately child-like: we shared a name and a T-ball position.
But in retrospect, Alex hit it right on the head. He was the best player at his position for 10 years. That is not easily dismissed in HOF discussions. He never got the mass support for the Hall because he probably was no better than the 5th best player on his team. Still, that team is historic — Bench, Rose, Morgan and Foster won MVPs in 70, 72, 73, 75, 76, 77. Griffey won a batting title (I think). Perez is in the Hall. Let’s face it, it was hard to stand out as a Spanish speaking, skinny, defensive wizard on the greatest offensive team of all time.
But he was absolutely great.
Don’t sell yourself short as a salesman. Just bought one. Can’t wait to read it. Can’t wait for the Reds book as well…George Foster was my first baseball hero…Two questions…is it me or were the Reds on NBC’s Saturday Game of the Week every week in the mid 70s? And did Sparky Anderson look like that when he was in Jr. High?
See you on Facebook!
You finally broke me a few weeks ago and I bought the book – it is a very good read. I can’t wait for the Reds book to come out. They were my idols growing up in the 70’s.
Hopefully there will be a chapter of the book dedicated to sideburns.
There is only one Concepcion at shortstop in my book: Onix.
I have to agree: as a sales tactic, it worked brilliantly, as I bought a book.
Instead of Facebook, though, can you answer an email?
OK, OK, I bought it, already. You are more powerful than Ron Popeil.
WARP3 agrees that Concepcion had a better career than Omar.
However, it also agrees that Omar had a better career than 7 current HoF shortstops. Whether or not you believe in “clutch” ability, Omar did bat better with RISP, RISP and two outs, and “Late and Close” than he did regularly. Also, to some extent I think the HoF is for truly unique baseball players; not in the Eddie Gaedel sense, but more in the Minnie Minoso sense.
There were certainly better fielding SS in history than Omar, but how many SS have been better defenders in their 40s? Honus Wagner, I guess. That’s about it, though. I think still being a plus defender at 41 is pretty ridiculous. And yes, he IS still a plus defender. He’s at +5 FRAA right now; Tulowitski, the concensus best fielder last year among the sabermetrics crowd, is at +4 with almost equal playing time.
Oh, and a note about Concepcion being a better hitter:
I measure Vizquel mainly by OBP, since he was hardly expected to slug when he was hitting in lineups with Thome, Ramirez, Belle and crew. His career OBP is pretty much exactly the league average (which means its obviously above league average for SS, even in this era of A-Rod and Jeter). Concepcion was .011 points of OBP behind the league average. Again, he was probably well above the SS level, but compared to the league as a whole, Omar was a better on-base guy. Seems like they had very similar value on the bases
I finished the book yesterday, and I’m not ashamed to say that I got a little misty a few times while sitting on the train. Great piece of writing.
Ok, ok, I bought your book. Happy now? You’ve won this round, Dr. Stat…
Hey Joe,
Bought your book, and loved it so much, I bought my Dad a copy for Father’s Day, and went ahead and sent one to my Mom. They both loved it as much as I did…
the constant whoring of your book(s) is getting quite tiresome. can’t you just put a paypal button at the top of the site and a link to the book instead of interjecting it into (what seems like) every other paragraph?
i love the writing on this blog, but such shameless promotion is really starting to feel heavyhanded.
Dusty is actually Buzz Bissinger.
Steve,
You leave out any justification of why it is better to compare Vizquel and Concepcion against league averages instead of shortstop averages. Back in the day, shortstops were far inferior hitters relative to average than they are today.
So, Concepcion was not just above average for shortshops, he was FAR above average for a shortstop. He also was surrounded by a bunch of great power hitters (i.e. bench, foster, morgan, etc), relieving him of the need to bop.
If you want to claim that the last twenty-five years have show us that there is no reason why shortstops cannot be great hitters, fine. If you want to use that reasoning to judge all light hitting shortstops in history, fine. Just say say. But if you think that players should be judged based on the the way the game was played in their era, I think that positional expectations should be a part of it — as Joe write above.
Which leaves you without an argument for Vizquel’s superiority.
Joe – I can’t believe most of your posters are just buying the book now! Some of us paid full price and still got more than our money’s worth!!
Josh Hamilton’s game winning HR last night was probably the best homer in Rangers history. Its very rare that something plays out the way that inning did. Down 4-2 with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th against the best closer in baseball and against the team that is in first place the Rangers get a hit by Young to drive in a run and put them down by one. Then Young steals second and Hamilton works the count to 3-1 before hitting a bullet over the right field wall. Great stuff. This Rangers team started the year horribly, but has gotten hot over the last few months. The fact they took 2 of 3 in Yankee Stadium was a big sign and now if they win today they’ll have taken 3 of 4 from the Angels. Hamilton’s story is the stuff of movies and I think its cool he said his favorite film of all time is The Natural. Also, when he hit that winning homer they played the theme song from The Natural like they do on all Rangers homers, but this time it seemed more fitting. What an amazing moment for Rangers fans.
Hi Joe — You’re on! Facebook me, baby. . .AYT
Order Date: July 10, 2008 |
Order #: 105-8483214-7229858 |
Recipient: Anita Y. Tsuchiya |
Shipping estimate: July 15, 2008 |
* 6 of: The Soul of Baseball: A Road Trip Through Buck O’Neil’s America [Bargain Price] |
Sold by: Amazon.com, LLC
Joe, have you ever thought about getting into the cult leader business? I think you’re missing an opportunity here.
Yes, I bought the book.
I clicked on all four links and bought four copies!
Kidding aside, I think I paid 12 bucks for your book at Barnes and Noble. I hope the extra 6 bucks winds up in your pocket, and not in the pocket of some fat, smarmy Barnes and Noble exec who doesn’t even like to read.
Hey Dusty;
I can’t quite believe that you’re serious about slagging JP about promoting his book(s) on HIS blog. I’m hoping that was some sort of attempt at humor. In the event that it’s not, here’s the thing. This blog is free. It features fantastic writing in the posts Joe puts on here, and for the most part, well thought out, non-nasty comments from its readers. And it has not ads. So I think Joe deserves not only a little, but a heck of a lot of slack about promoting The Soul of Baseball and his upcoming book on the Big Red Machine. Besides that, it is possible Joe might not have ever written a blog, had his publisher not pushed him to do so to promote TSOB. Just sayin.’
Vizquel may, or may not be a HOFer, but he’s most certainly in line behind Larkin, Trammell, and Concepcion. Of course, self-described iconoclasts like Ringolsby, and sentimentalists like Gammons will probably elect Vizquel, and Vizquel alone.
If the writers don’t vote in Larkin (who is one of the top 10 shortstops of all time, no question, and better than anyone since him aside from A-Rod), then I’ll lose as much faith in them in the Hall voting process as I’ve lost in their ability to award Gold Gloves (ANY SHORTSTOP OVER TULO LAST SEASON?!!!! DID THEY WATCH HIM AT ALL LAST SEASON OR LOOK AT HIS STATS?!!!).
Although Cal was better than Larkin
I just wanted to say I purchased the book about 2 weeks ago, and was very glad to spend full price. It was a wonderful read.
Cal Jr. had a better career, but if I needed one player for one game, or for an entire season for that matter, I’d take Larkin without a second thought.
I would take Larkin over Ripken, though there’s a obviously a HUGE durability gulf between the two.
i’ll trade you this torn omar vizquel card for your carl yastrzemski rookie card.
Alex:
So then why don’t we judge every player by positional comparisons instead of by OPS+ (and OBP+ and SLG+)? It weakens Jim Rice’s case, doesn’t it?
The fact is, Vizquel played in a much, much stronger offensive era and still had a better relative OBP than Concepcion did. Since both had the primary offensive job of GETTING ON BASE, and Omar did that job better, I don’t see how you can claim Concepcion was a superior hitter.
The decision to use light-hitting shortstops is a purely management decision that is outside of Vizquel’s or Concepcion’s control.
DB Cooper:
In that case, I guess Concepcion and Larkin shouldn’t be elected until Bill Dahlen gets in, right? Dahlen was certainly better than those two.
Range factor = Nonsense. At nonsense if not closely, closely analyzed by situation. Here is what range factor is: Assists + Put Outs divided by innings. Does anyone here see the flaw you could drive a Barry Bond’s head through? It’s almost totally dependent on the pitching staff’s ability to generate ground balls. Does anyone realize that the great Jhonny Peralta led the league in RF in 2006? The immortal GarryTempleton 5 times had RF over 5 in a 6 year period. RF gets even worse as an indicator across generations. There is no comparison to this era of A. More strikeouts, B. More flyballs, and C. More hard hit balls that demand faster reactions. Ozzie gets too much credit, not that he doesn’t deserve a LOT of credit, but he was just the top of an inflated wave of supposed defensive wizards from the 70s. Joe, our Frank Duffy had a RF of 5.00 in 1973!! Shouldn’t that tell you all you need to know about RF. Unless of course, Frank Duffy was the greatest shortstop in Indians history. Stop me before I start comparing Vic Davilio to Grady Sizemore!
I didn’t really through each comment, but even if someone has already said this it is worth saying again: I wish more HOF voters put the amount of time and thought into their HOF votes as you do Joe.
I checked out your book “Soul of Baseball” from the public library.
It was a very good read. Buck O’Neil was a great man.
I would pay for this blog. Even though I worry that in 5 years, Joe will have us voting on the negative merits of Matthew McConaghey vs. Hugh Grant.
And, I am ordering a copy of the Soul of Baseball tonight (from B&N, not Amazon, but I hope you still get a royalty, Joe)
I told my Dad about the blog and TSOB in December about 50 times, and so I got a copy of it (autographed by Joe – thanks!) for Christmas.
To add to the chorus: buy one. Read it. It’s worth it.
Hi, Joe. I’m happy to see there is a Kindle edition for this book. I hope you plan on making your 1975 Reds book available for the Kindle too! If so I’ll be reading it on release day.
[...] The pozterisks can end up being longer than the text itself, as in this post detailing the hall of fame qualifications of shortstops Omar Vizquel and Dave [...]