Comments on: The Dayton Game http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/ A Rough Draft Blog Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:36:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Baby name meaning and origin for Dayton http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-52073 Baby name meaning and origin for Dayton Sun, 15 Feb 2009 07:52:23 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-52073 [...] The Dayton Game [...] [...] The Dayton Game [...]

]]> By: Mark P http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-20557 Mark P Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:15:46 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-20557 Toronto Blue Jays.... Johnny Mac's glove Scott Rolen's glove Scott Rolen's contact hitting Alex Rios' arm Alex Rios' power (theoretically...) Lyle Overbay's contact hitting Vernon Wells' glove Vernon Wells' power (theoretically...) Toronto Blue Jays….

Johnny Mac’s glove
Scott Rolen’s glove
Scott Rolen’s contact hitting
Alex Rios’ arm
Alex Rios’ power (theoretically…)
Lyle Overbay’s contact hitting
Vernon Wells’ glove
Vernon Wells’ power (theoretically…)

]]> By: gordon hafner http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-20253 gordon hafner Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:08:04 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-20253 [...] does your team have? I probably don??t need to explain that concept to the brilliant readershiphttp://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/Some 232 graduate from FHS Farmington PressWith his hand to his forehead, Farmington High School [...] [...] does your team have? I probably don??t need to explain that concept to the brilliant readershiphttp://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/Some 232 graduate from FHS Farmington PressWith his hand to his forehead, Farmington High School [...]

]]> By: Whitey Herzog http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-18394 Whitey Herzog Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:05:03 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-18394 1985 Royals: World Series Roster Don Denkinger, 80 1985 Royals:
World Series Roster
Don Denkinger, 80

]]> By: Bird Land » Blog Archive » Counting 60s: The Cards on a Scout’s scale http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-18040 Bird Land » Blog Archive » Counting 60s: The Cards on a Scout’s scale Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:06:09 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-18040 [...] TOWER GROVE — The First-Year Player Draft is rapidly approaching — as Bryan Burwell opined on this morning – and it was the draft that sprang to mind when I read a recent entry at KC columnist Joe Posnanski’s baseball-enriched blog.  He called it “The Dayton Game”. [...] [...] TOWER GROVE — The First-Year Player Draft is rapidly approaching — as Bryan Burwell opined on this morning – and it was the draft that sprang to mind when I read a recent entry at KC columnist Joe Posnanski’s baseball-enriched blog.  He called it “The Dayton Game”. [...]

]]> By: Creston http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17901 Creston Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:10:03 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17901 "And why is arm separate from defense? I know you can have a bad arm and be a good defender, and visa versa, but I always thought of arm as being a part of the total defensive package" Because it's an important consideration in determining where a guy should play. You can be Ozzie Smith in the outfield, but if you have absolutely no arm, you have no business being in Center or Right Field. (which is why the Yankees finally realized that Damon was costing them big time in Center Field). Same thing for an infielder. Scott Rolen has great defense (I'm guessing 70) and ALSO a cannon of an arm (60). If he was a 70/40, he wouldn't be playing third base. David Eckstein, ofcourse, has a 30 arm, and people still put him at shortstop. As far as patience, I agree that that SHOULD be a tool, but this is all old school stuff, and in old school baseball, walks are dirty. {Dusty Baker} They call it fielding and hitting, not fielding and walking, do they?! {/Dusty Baker} Some people here are assigning 60s like they are candy. Really Morgan? 19 60s on the Mets? NINETEEN? :O “And why is arm separate from defense? I know you can have a bad arm and be a good defender, and visa versa, but I always thought of arm as being a part of the total defensive package”

Because it’s an important consideration in determining where a guy should play. You can be Ozzie Smith in the outfield, but if you have absolutely no arm, you have no business being in Center or Right Field. (which is why the Yankees finally realized that Damon was costing them big time in Center Field).

Same thing for an infielder. Scott Rolen has great defense (I’m guessing 70) and ALSO a cannon of an arm (60). If he was a 70/40, he wouldn’t be playing third base.

David Eckstein, ofcourse, has a 30 arm, and people still put him at shortstop.

As far as patience, I agree that that SHOULD be a tool, but this is all old school stuff, and in old school baseball, walks are dirty.
{Dusty Baker}
They call it fielding and hitting, not fielding and walking, do they?!
{/Dusty Baker}

Some people here are assigning 60s like they are candy. Really Morgan? 19 60s on the Mets? NINETEEN? :O

]]> By: Matt http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17859 Matt Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:17:28 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17859 Been reading this blog for about 8 months now and I have encountered several humorous pieces from time to time. However, "Clyde Hangingcurvey" puts them all to shame. Laugh-out-loud funny. You've outdone yourself once again, Joe. That very well could be the catalyst for me buying your book. ps GO CARDS!!! Been reading this blog for about 8 months now and I have encountered several humorous pieces from time to time. However, “Clyde Hangingcurvey” puts them all to shame. Laugh-out-loud funny. You’ve outdone yourself once again, Joe. That very well could be the catalyst for me buying your book.

ps GO CARDS!!!

]]> By: Dan http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17846 Dan Mon, 02 Jun 2008 07:31:33 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17846 "MannyBManny’s comic prowess." darn. I laughed out loud. Really loud. And the family's sleeping, ya jerk. Good post, though. “MannyBManny’s comic prowess.”

darn. I laughed out loud. Really loud. And the family’s sleeping, ya jerk.

Good post, though.

]]> By: Vin http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17816 Vin Sun, 01 Jun 2008 21:25:51 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17816 I've always had a couple of problems with the so-called five tools. First of all, patience really should be a tool. Maybe it can be taught, so it isn't as useful for scouts looking at a 17-year-old, but if we're evaluating big leaguers, you gotta put patience in the mix. And why is arm separate from defense? I know you can have a bad arm and be a good defender, and visa versa, but I always thought of arm as being a part of the total defensive package. It certainly isn't important enough to merit its own category. So I say that you replace arm with patience, and the real five tools are hitting, power, patience, speed and defense. Another point about the 20-80 scale. Its cool and all, but it totally ignores that there is a lot of room between league-average and All-Star. Especially considering that 40 represents below average, shouldn't there be a number for above average, but not quite all-star? I'm gonna call it 55. Some of the debates about the Mets could be settled by using 55. I think David Wright has 55 speed - he's clearly better than average, but he's not gonna make any All-Star teams because of it. Beltran's a 55 hitter, with 60 power, 70 patience, and 60 defense and speed. Delgado's power is a 55, though at this point everything else he does is like a 30. I'd say Alou is still a 60 hitter, but it doesn't really matter seeing as he never actually plays (10 health, if they can give that). Ryan Church has 60 defense and 55 power. And so on. I'd start talking about regular life now, but that may just go on for too long. I’ve always had a couple of problems with the so-called five tools. First of all, patience really should be a tool. Maybe it can be taught, so it isn’t as useful for scouts looking at a 17-year-old, but if we’re evaluating big leaguers, you gotta put patience in the mix. And why is arm separate from defense? I know you can have a bad arm and be a good defender, and visa versa, but I always thought of arm as being a part of the total defensive package. It certainly isn’t important enough to merit its own category. So I say that you replace arm with patience, and the real five tools are hitting, power, patience, speed and defense.

Another point about the 20-80 scale. Its cool and all, but it totally ignores that there is a lot of room between league-average and All-Star. Especially considering that 40 represents below average, shouldn’t there be a number for above average, but not quite all-star? I’m gonna call it 55.

Some of the debates about the Mets could be settled by using 55. I think David Wright has 55 speed – he’s clearly better than average, but he’s not gonna make any All-Star teams because of it. Beltran’s a 55 hitter, with 60 power, 70 patience, and 60 defense and speed. Delgado’s power is a 55, though at this point everything else he does is like a 30. I’d say Alou is still a 60 hitter, but it doesn’t really matter seeing as he never actually plays (10 health, if they can give that). Ryan Church has 60 defense and 55 power. And so on.

I’d start talking about regular life now, but that may just go on for too long.

]]> By: gogiggs http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17754 gogiggs Sun, 01 Jun 2008 07:48:03 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/30/the-dayton-game/#comment-17754 Justyo, I mean no disrespect to Carlos Beltran. I love Carlos Beltran. Five years ago, I'd have taken him over anybody except probably A-Rod and Pujols. Heck, I actually did. I played 4 fantasy teams that year and I picked Beltran in the first round for all 4 (and ended up with 3 firsts and a third). However, as I understand it, the five tools in the Dayton game are hitting for average, hitting for power, speed, defense and arm. Over the last 4 seasons Beltran's batting averages were: .267, .266, .275, .276. That's not a 60 rating for hitting for average. That's a solid 50. Do his other attributes make him a great player despite his average average? Absolutely! But that wasn't the question you proposed. The question you proposed was, who are guys that rate a 60 in every category? Beltran, clearly doesn't. Justyo, I mean no disrespect to Carlos Beltran. I love Carlos Beltran. Five years ago, I’d have taken him over anybody except probably A-Rod and Pujols. Heck, I actually did. I played 4 fantasy teams that year and I picked Beltran in the first round for all 4 (and ended up with 3 firsts and a third).

However, as I understand it, the five tools in the Dayton game are hitting for average, hitting for power, speed, defense and arm. Over the last 4 seasons Beltran’s batting averages were: .267, .266, .275, .276. That’s not a 60 rating for hitting for average. That’s a solid 50. Do his other attributes make him a great player despite his average average? Absolutely! But that wasn’t the question you proposed. The question you proposed was, who are guys that rate a 60 in every category? Beltran, clearly doesn’t.

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