Comments on: B-Log: An Ode to Gardy http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/ A Rough Draft Blog Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:56:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: » Post Topic » Minnesota Twins: Why Ron Gardenhire Is Overrated http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17722 » Post Topic » Minnesota Twins: Why Ron Gardenhire Is Overrated Sun, 01 Jun 2008 00:06:12 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17722 [...] Posnanski of the Kansas City Star recently wrote an article giving credit to Ron Gardenhire as one of the best managers of all time. He admitted that he has [...] [...] Posnanski of the Kansas City Star recently wrote an article giving credit to Ron Gardenhire as one of the best managers of all time. He admitted that he has [...]

]]> By: Rhubarb_Runner http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17424 Rhubarb_Runner Thu, 29 May 2008 21:29:14 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17424 "I suppose it’s true that every town (or state- hi, Minnesota) thinks that its manager is the worst in baseball." I don't think anyone here was saying Gardy is the worst in baseball. But he's not the best. “I suppose it’s true that every town (or state- hi, Minnesota) thinks that its manager is the worst in baseball.”

I don’t think anyone here was saying Gardy is the worst in baseball. But he’s not the best.

]]> By: Creston http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17403 Creston Thu, 29 May 2008 18:09:50 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17403 "But it’s how you manage the personalities on your team that matters. " Fine. Then Joe Torre or Terry Francona is the best manager in baseball. End of story. Or do they suddenly not count because they have a big payroll? “But it’s how you manage the personalities on your team that matters. ”

Fine. Then Joe Torre or Terry Francona is the best manager in baseball. End of story.

Or do they suddenly not count because they have a big payroll?

]]> By: Culpurple http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17378 Culpurple Thu, 29 May 2008 16:19:36 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17378 Creston... Brandon... Rhubarb... Everyone else in their boat are adrift in a sea of confusion. Anyone who can't admire what Gardy has done with a budget team through the ups and downs of a division's perceived strength/weakness is just kidding themselves. Throw all the stats out you want, this guy wins with whatever you give him. Give him a little more to work with, he wins a little more. This year, the pitching and defense hasn't been up to "Twins Standards" and he is still winning. And I don't mind his "gut feelings", because the guy has baseball instincts. As pointed out elsewhere here, a lot of a managers decisions don't work out on a game-to-game basis. But it's how you manage the personalities on your team that matters. Get the most out of what you've got. And play the game the right way. Twins baseball. Creston… Brandon… Rhubarb…
Everyone else in their boat are adrift in a sea of confusion. Anyone who can’t admire what Gardy has done with a budget team through the ups and downs of a division’s perceived strength/weakness is just kidding themselves.
Throw all the stats out you want, this guy wins with whatever you give him. Give him a little more to work with, he wins a little more. This year, the pitching and defense hasn’t been up to “Twins Standards” and he is still winning.
And I don’t mind his “gut feelings”, because the guy has baseball instincts.
As pointed out elsewhere here, a lot of a managers decisions don’t work out on a game-to-game basis. But it’s how you manage the personalities on your team that matters. Get the most out of what you’ve got. And play the game the right way. Twins baseball.

]]> By: Brian Gunn http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17316 Brian Gunn Thu, 29 May 2008 09:20:48 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17316 I appreciate Joe's attempts to defend Gardenhire as the Best Manager in Baseball (tm), but I can't shake the feeling that we're still in the Dark Ages when it comes to assessing managers. So much of the work they do is behind closed doors (both figuratively and literally), and virtually all attempts to quantitatively measure their performance (i.e., record in one-run games, actual record vs. Pythagorean record, etc.) are fraught with limitations, confusions, qualifications, and so on. While it's fun to size up our favorite skippers, it seems to me that manager evaluation remains an unanswered Hilbert Question, and much closer to, say, art criticism than science. I appreciate Joe’s attempts to defend Gardenhire as the Best Manager in Baseball ™, but I can’t shake the feeling that we’re still in the Dark Ages when it comes to assessing managers. So much of the work they do is behind closed doors (both figuratively and literally), and virtually all attempts to quantitatively measure their performance (i.e., record in one-run games, actual record vs. Pythagorean record, etc.) are fraught with limitations, confusions, qualifications, and so on. While it’s fun to size up our favorite skippers, it seems to me that manager evaluation remains an unanswered Hilbert Question, and much closer to, say, art criticism than science.

]]> By: Andy Sonnanstine's Scruffy Beard http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17291 Andy Sonnanstine's Scruffy Beard Thu, 29 May 2008 06:04:13 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17291 "In every other walk of life, ignoring research in favor of hunches would likely be a fireable offense." Or get you the Presidency. I'm amused reading all of anti-Gardenhire venom from the Twins fans. Engaging in revisionist history about your 4 division titles in 5 years being "not all that impressive" or "just because we had an easy schedule" seems ludicrous to me seeing as how from 1993-2000 your team was so pathetic that MLB wanted to contract it. I suppose it's true that every town (or state- hi, Minnesota) thinks that its manager is the worst in baseball. Listening to the Chicago media take off on Lou Pinella after last year's division title and the previous four years of Dusty Baker is laughable. “In every other walk of life, ignoring research in favor of hunches would likely be a fireable offense.”

Or get you the Presidency.

I’m amused reading all of anti-Gardenhire venom from the Twins fans. Engaging in revisionist history about your 4 division titles in 5 years being “not all that impressive” or “just because we had an easy schedule” seems ludicrous to me seeing as how from 1993-2000 your team was so pathetic that MLB wanted to contract it. I suppose it’s true that every town (or state- hi, Minnesota) thinks that its manager is the worst in baseball. Listening to the Chicago media take off on Lou Pinella after last year’s division title and the previous four years of Dusty Baker is laughable.

]]> By: Drake33 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17266 Drake33 Thu, 29 May 2008 03:17:42 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17266 Joe, As a Twins fan. I have mixed emotions right now. I'm glad I get another Posnaski Post tomorrow, but I feel kindof bad for tonight. Joe,

As a Twins fan. I have mixed emotions right now. I’m glad I get another Posnaski Post tomorrow, but I feel kindof bad for tonight.

]]> By: Dusty http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17259 Dusty Thu, 29 May 2008 01:20:38 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17259 As a Phoenician, I agree with the above arguments for Melvin. He has the D-Backs winning and playing better than almost any team in the league with hardly any stars (Upton will be and Jackson is playing better this year, but I wouldn't call them stars just yet). Earlier this year when Owings pinch-hit a 2-run hr to help the D-Backs complete an 8-7 comeback win over the Astros, I almost lost my mind. Also, is there an rss feed for the comments on this blog? As a Phoenician, I agree with the above arguments for Melvin. He has the D-Backs winning and playing better than almost any team in the league with hardly any stars (Upton will be and Jackson is playing better this year, but I wouldn’t call them stars just yet).

Earlier this year when Owings pinch-hit a 2-run hr to help the D-Backs complete an 8-7 comeback win over the Astros, I almost lost my mind.

Also, is there an rss feed for the comments on this blog?

]]> By: Daniel http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17255 Daniel Wed, 28 May 2008 23:50:14 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17255 I think Scioscia deserves some consideration for this. Yeah, the Angels have had a high payroll the last few years, but he has done well in all the "managing" areas. The Angels are always at the top of the league in baserunning (although their SB % is down this year) including going from 1st - 3rd. He manages his bullpen well - of course he hasn't broken from the stereotypical closer usage, but he will use K-Rod in a tie game. He does a good job of using his good relievers in high leverage situations. He bunts a lot in late inning situations when it's warranted (e.g. last night, runners on 1st and second, no outs, bunting them over to second and third increased their win expectancy; not all bunts are bad). Cox has done it longer and with more sustained success, so I would probably give him the nod, but Scioscia's a close second. I think Scioscia deserves some consideration for this. Yeah, the Angels have had a high payroll the last few years, but he has done well in all the “managing” areas. The Angels are always at the top of the league in baserunning (although their SB % is down this year) including going from 1st – 3rd. He manages his bullpen well – of course he hasn’t broken from the stereotypical closer usage, but he will use K-Rod in a tie game. He does a good job of using his good relievers in high leverage situations.

He bunts a lot in late inning situations when it’s warranted (e.g. last night, runners on 1st and second, no outs, bunting them over to second and third increased their win expectancy; not all bunts are bad). Cox has done it longer and with more sustained success, so I would probably give him the nod, but Scioscia’s a close second.

]]> By: B http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17253 B Wed, 28 May 2008 23:34:56 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/05/28/b-log-an-ode-to-gardy/#comment-17253 There are a number of reasons that evaluating a manager is difficult. #1 baseball is probably the easiest sport to second guess. Every night you can say "I wouldn't have -------- in the 7th" if a particular move didn't work out. That's why most rabid fans think their own manager sucks, they spend much more time analyzing each move than the national media. #2 and most important (in my humble opinion) is that a manager has to be evaluated over such a long period of time. A "crucial" win this week doesn't mean anything if the bullpen is completely out of gas down the stretch because the manager (see: Torre, Baker) burned out his staff along the way. I'm a Red Sox fan and feel that the best things Francona did last year were sticking with Pedroia during his absolutely abysmal start and keeping the arms fresh for the playoffs. One of the knocks on Beckett in the Cy Young debate was that Sabathia had thrown so many more innings during the season. How'd that wrk out for C.C. in the ALCS? Resting players, managing egos, and riding out inevitable player slumps aren't as obvious or exciting as pinch hitting, moving runners, and making the right call to the 'pen, but in a championship season can make the difference. There are a number of reasons that evaluating a manager is difficult.

#1 baseball is probably the easiest sport to second guess. Every night you can say “I wouldn’t have ——– in the 7th” if a particular move didn’t work out. That’s why most rabid fans think their own manager sucks, they spend much more time analyzing each move than the national media.

#2 and most important (in my humble opinion) is that a manager has to be evaluated over such a long period of time. A “crucial” win this week doesn’t mean anything if the bullpen is completely out of gas down the stretch because the manager (see: Torre, Baker) burned out his staff along the way.

I’m a Red Sox fan and feel that the best things Francona did last year were sticking with Pedroia during his absolutely abysmal start and keeping the arms fresh for the playoffs. One of the knocks on Beckett in the Cy Young debate was that Sabathia had thrown so many more innings during the season. How’d that wrk out for C.C. in the ALCS?

Resting players, managing egos, and riding out inevitable player slumps aren’t as obvious or exciting as pinch hitting, moving runners, and making the right call to the ‘pen, but in a championship season can make the difference.

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