I’m sorry? This is a joke, right?
Posted: April 22nd, 2008 | Filed under: Baseball | 114 Comments »
This is a personal message to my good friends, New York Yankees fans. I’ve always had a lot of respect for you folks, really. I don’t like the Yankees, naturally, but I like you. You provide the biggest sports stage in America today. Broadway of Baseball. All that. Yankees fans, to me, in general, tend to be fun and brutal and smart. Some of my best friends are Yankees fans, and I get a huge kick out of you. I like the whole cynical fan thing, Bronx cheers, I like the whole “DE-rek JE-ter” chant at the beginning of games. And I consider being in Yankee Stadium after Jeter hit the home run in the 2001 World Series one of the great sports moments of my life. And …
… you will now ask why I’m sucking up to you Yankees fans? It’s because I’m about to say this.
Seriously, have you people lost your freaking minds?
I cannot remember a more stupid controversy than this LaTroy Hawkins number thing. Really. Ever. Maybe I’m missing something. Maybe there is some angle to this thing that I just have not quite gotten my thick brain around.
As I understand it, LaTroy Hawkins decided to wear No. 21 to honor his hero Roberto Clemente. It seems a pretty noble thing. Hawkins, like many others, believes that Clemente’s number should be retired all over the league — he supposedly has a sticker pumping this site on his locker. I don’t necessarily agree that Clemente’s number should be universally retired, but I certainly understand the sentiment. Anyway, could anyone blame a man for wanting to honor an icon like Clemente?
Apparently the answer to this is: Yes.You Yankees fans — you smart, cynical, tough Yankees fans — started booing the hell out of LaTroy Hawkins. Teammates like Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera encouraged him to change numbers. It is suspected that George Steinbrenner even got involved.
Why the ruckus? What’s the rumpus? What gives?
It is because …
I can’t even say this because it’s so unbelievably stupid …
Because …
No, it’s not possible. Really. Not possible. …
Because freaking Paul O’Neill wore Number 21.
Paul O’Neill. I’m sitting here look at those words and I cannot even believe this. Paul O’FreakingNeill. Now, look, I fully respect what Paul O’FreakingNeill did for the Yankees. Gave them nine mostly nice seasons, made four All-Star teams (one as a starter), led the league in hitting one year (and grounding into double plays twice), banged as many as 24 home runs (precisely the same number as Darryl Strawberry — Straw did it in 300 fewer at-bats though), played with guts and fire as best expressed by his throwing helmets after his strikeouts.
Look, I don’t want to make this sound like I have anything against O’Neill — I don’t. I liked him. Respected him. He was a very good player on some great teams, a fan favorite, a scrappy player who unlike many other scrappy players could actually hit. I appreciate that Yankees fans loved him. I do. He’s like a Bobby Bonilla with guts, or a Fred Lynn who couldn’t play center field or (I’m not just picking these names out of thin air; I’m looking at his comps on Baseball-Reference) or a Garrett Anderson or a Del Ennis (that’s a pretty good comp — scrappy, hit with some power, key player on Whiz Kids) or, um, Ruben Sierra? George Hendrick?
But, um, come on. You’re YANKEES FANS. This is the point. I mean, really, you’re booing a guy for wearing the uniform of a modern Del Ellis? I appreciate that Yankees fans tend to go overboard in their love for certain players — my email is filled every year with kindly “Vote Don Mattingly into the Hall of Fame” suggestions — and O’Neill is that sort of player. I do.
But, um, come on. Oh, I said that already. Do you seriously find yourself struggling to imagine anyone ever being good enough to wear PAUL O’FREAKINGNEILL’S NUMBER? I mean, you had Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Ford, Stengel, Reggie — throw Mattingly in there if you want — and you’re really booing and ripping a guy trying to honor Clemente because it offends your PAUL O’NEILL SENSIBILITIES?
I’m just in awe. I am. And then I read that Jeter and others may be trying to get Paul O’Neill’s number RETIRED? Has the world gone mad?Is there some sort of flu going around the Bronx? Will they retire Bernie Williams number since he was a better player? How about Tino’s number? You know, Brosius had the huge hit. What number did he wear? What the hell is going on over there?
Meanwhile, LaTroy Hawkins is wearing No. 22 now. I don’t know about that. You know Jorge Posada wore that number one year. And Homer Bush. Don’t forget Homer Bush.
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As a Yankee fan, I found the booing of Hawkins piteful but predictable. But hey man, you are talking about a fan base that will tell you with a straight face how much better, more valuable, how much more “clutch” Scott Brosius was than Alex Rodriguez. I waste more time and energy trying to convince fellow Yankee fans how special Rodriguez is, but many of them won’t hear it, don’t want any part of it, until, that is, Rodriguez is part of a championship team. Then, grudingly, they might give him some love. But it was like that for Straw when he played for the Mets in the 80s. I remember Bill James writing about how underappreciated Straw was in NYC.
I am a die hard Yankee fan for years. LOVE THEM. I loved Paul O’Neil. He, not Jeter was the heart and soul of the Yankee championship seasons.
But I am embarrassed to be a Yankee fan after this mishap. It is a joke. It has been what, 7 years? He’ll never has his number retired, nor should he. We can be way to pompous at times. It kills me.
O’Neill didn’t help himself either. He had a gazillion opportunities, including on the air, to come to the defense of Latroy and he never did.
i’m not going to lie. as a life long red sox fan, i find this whole thing not only amusing, i find it kinda life affirming.
I like to boo Latroy Hawkins too, but that’s because he really, really, really sucks at baseball.
I got two hits off LaTroy Hawkins in high school. As long as he stays in baseball, I’m not old.
That would be my greatest sports feat if it wasn’t for the time Glenn Robinson copied off me at the SAT and didn’t qualify to play his freshman year at Purdue.
Yankee fans aren’t the only ones who get kind of irrationally attached to guys. A lot of Cardinal fans want the team to retire Willie McGee’s #51. But they’d never boo anyone for wearing it.
Look, I’m an adult (God I hate saying that) I’ve gone to college and graduate school, I have a job and friends who think I’m intelligent and sane. I’m also a Yankees’ fan and for the most part I don’t find these two aspects of my personality all that contradictory. In the instant matter, however, I must plead some degree of insanity, because, while I don’t agree with booing The Troy, I found some part of myself comforted by the PAUL O’NEILL chants every time the number ‘21′ appeared on the mound. I’m not trying to assert that 9 years of 15-20 percent above average play is the stuff of immortality and legend, but maybe it is the stuff childhood heroes, and who wouldn’t want to hold onto that a little bit longer?
As a card-carrying member of Red Sox Nation, I find all of this amusing.
Maybe all of the hub bub over #21 was started by Hank Steinbrenner as a way to move the heat off of the “should-Joba-start-or-not” controversy.
Gotta love baseball in Gotham!
Let’s look for a silver lining here: maybe, and I’m just spit-balling here, but maybe if the Yankees keep retiring the numbers of their above-average players, eventually they’ll run out of numbers and the team will have to be disbanded?
Dare to dream, dare to dream.
Joe, are you sure you weren’t in Philly and they were booing Adam Eaton for wearing John Lieber’s #21??? . . .
Yankees fans are morons. And here in Philadelphia, we would boo both pair. Because all 4 aren’t what they are reported to be . . .
Oh, and lets not forget that Clemens (yeah know the yankee hero who retired last year) wore 22. In fact didn’t he always have that number put into his salary some way or another?
If Paul O’Neill was a former White Sox, not only would his number already be retired, but he’d be 2nd in the record books for most meaningful offensive categories (figure estimated). So I guess there’s that.
I can’t believe you forgot to include Paul O’Neil’s hair.
Yuck.
There are a lot of absolutely crazed fans who are very stuck on Paul O’Neill here. I personally do not understand the logic in booing a new player because he wears a certain number and I loved O’Neill very much when he played. They are also the guys who would rather have Scott Brosius on the team right now than Alex Rodriguez.
I was at both Opening Day and one of the games where they were chanting O’Neill’s name when Hawkins came up and I was as confused about the whole thing then as I am now. I do wonder what will happen when the team gives someone #51.
People aren’t really booing the fact that Hawkins wore #21.
I live on Long Island and I am a witness to the madness that is The Yankees.
The fans were totally against bringing Hawkins in.
They knew it was throwing good money after bad.
They would have rather rolled th edice on Horne or Ohlendorf.
We see how the patience is paying off in regard to Hughes and Kennedy.
O’Neill is definitely over glorified.
He was a fun player. He reminded fans of the days of Lou Piniella busting water coolers.
Yankee fans have not become so unglued as to want to run Hawkins out of town for wearing #21, they may run him out due to his performance though.
The Yankee fan who actually feels that Hawkins committed some type of sin are the types of quacks who although George Bush wants to take away their jobs voted for Bush because “he’s a Born Again”.
That was an exact quote from a voter in the labor heavy state of Ohio during the 2004 election.
So whenever you ask the fringe why they are doing something don’t paint the majority with the same stroke.
Brosius wore 18 … which Damon wears now.
I look forward to the Yankees assigning triple-digit numbers someday.
I am a Yankees fan, and I would boo. Paul O’Neill is that special.
Game 5 2001 World Series, nuff said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2DsfjolZ8Y
I believe that O’Neill is actually being celebrated for his excellent Seinfeld appearance, promising two home runs to a sick kid. That’s why Keith Hernandez belongs in the Hall of Fame – “I’m Keith Hernandez!”
It’s harmless fun, and I say kudos to Yankee fans. As a Sox fan, I still haven’t accepted J.D. Drew as #7. #7 belongs to Trot Nixon. Just like #5 belongs to Nomar, #45 belongs to Pedro, #21 belongs to Rocket(however tarnished). I actually wish Sox fans had thought of booing and chanting Trot Nixon when Drew showed up on the Fenway green wearing gritty Trot Nixon’s #7.
I’m not saying #7 should be retired, or #5, or #21,(maybe #45), but there should be a grace period..a period of mourning., or a period of respectful remembrance
. Upon retirement of the guy who wore the number, or 5 seasons. Is that too much to ask? Is that obsessive? Do I need a new hobby because Trot Nixon played a part in so many great moments of joy in life? Likely yes..but what do you expect? Baseball fans have proven again and again, we’re not rational. If the only control we have over our beloved teams is booing and chanting for respect of players past, why would you want to take that away?
Hey, Gary Sheffield wears Alan Trammel’s number 3. The Latroy Hawkins thing is such a little comparatively it’s ridiculous. It’s more like getting bent out of shape over Jeff Baker taking Dante Bichette’s number.
As a Piston’s fan, I was a little shaken that Ben Wallace’s number 3 was given to Rodney Stuckey, especially knowing he did it because his idol is Dwyane Wade.
Does Hawkins taking #22 mean that Clemens can’t come back for the Yanks this year? I guess they aren’t going for any “Roger Clemens” cheers at this juncture
Hank has just decreed that Joba will play first base against lefties when not starting the game as a pitcher.
Hank said he’s seen what this Micah Owings has done and has said it’s a disgrace that a non-Yankee pitcher is being touted as the best hitting pitcher.
Mariano Rivera, to me, comes off hypocritical here. How can the only guy wearing Jackie Robinson’s “42″ disapprove of someone wearing Paul O’Neill’s number?
If LaTroy thinks #21 should be retired throughout all baseball, why doesn’t he do his part by not wearing it?
Oh man, I can’t BELIEVE the Tigers gave out Trammell’s number to anyone. I’m not a Tigers fan at all, but just as a baseball fan that doesn’t sound right.
You’re a tad late on this story Joe. I agree wholeheartedly though. I am a die-hard Yankees fan and this was one of the most embarrassing “controversies” I have yet to encounter. I was ashamed to call myself a fan of the same organization as those fans. I never understood the obsession with retiring numbers in Yankeedom, I believe it dilutes the honor. We haven’t had half the amount of true greats that we claim to have. We’ve had a buttload of really good players contribute on really great teams, even historic teams. That was what Paul O’Neil was. He was a good player on a great team who does not deserve his number to be retired and certainly doesn’t deserve the vicious offensive the “fans” put up to protect the number 21. Regardless of how poorly someone performs, to boo them for the number on their back is, to quote fire joe morgan, retar-diculous!
Yankee fan here…. and I agree with you 100%. While Hawkins may be a bit dense for not noticing that Ensberg was harassed in ST for wearing #21, there are far better reasons to boo Hawkins- for example, his uncanny ability to allow inherited runners to score. Michael Kay, who (wrong or not) probably has an influence on Yankees fans let the behavior continue by simply deferring to O’Neill to comment, and never presented the other side. Kay also was oblivious to or (worse) completely ignored the Clemente tribute angle during broadcasts.
My less educated fellow Yankees fans seem to not realize that a number can be used until it is retired. Aside from that, the Yankees have retired too many numbers already. Martin, Guidry, and Jackson were all retired for political reasons. O’Neill was an important member of the Yankees but over the dynasty probably the FIFTH most important player: after Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Williams. The first three should have their numbers retired, the fourth is iffy, and O’Neill is right out. Sorry, but there are only so many numbers….
Yes.
Joe, you’re just very right. But not right enough.
First, a lot of Yankees fans have very short memories. I don’t. I remember when the Yankees were terrible. I remember when Steinbrenner was a criminal jerk and not surrounded in the same nostalgic patina that we tend to give even criminal jerks when they get old or die (*cough*Nixon!*cough*). So Paulie is already enshrined because he was recent.
But let’s face facts. A good ballplayer, but you aren’t a leader of the team (as Peter Abraham of Lohud [see his blog; it's great and links to Joe's] points out) because you knock over watercoolers. You just validate the backbrain reactions of some fans.
But that’s not entirely what this is about.
There is a HUGE element of racism in this. I don’t think you’d get anyone to admit it. You’d get the same kind of “heritage not hate” argument that you would in the South about using the Confederate battle flag on state flags. But it is very much an issue determined by race.
I’m sure, if Chief Wahoo is any guide, that there are a lot of people who won’t agree. But it’s really the explanation.
On the whole, from what I can tell, Yankees fans tend to be a little classier in this regard than Mets fans, who are _so_ grateful to have David Wright to cheer for and can ignore Delgado (this is a sweeping generalization, I know, but I said “on the whole”). But that did not stop all the brilliant kung fu routines I saw at Ichiro’s first game at Yankee Stadium. And it is very much imbricated in this “PAUL O’FREAKINGNEILL” imbroglio (that was almost swearing, Joe! Good job!).
Anyway, I’m sure the other Yankees fans who read this fantastic site might really pile on and disagree, but listen to WFAN, look around at the people booing at the Stadium. Think about “PAUL O’FREAKINGNEILL’S” career versus Roberto Clemente’s (I mean seriously! Clemente!). There is ignorance piled on ignorance here, and it’s this sort of thing that sometimes makes me rue not being a Yankees fan but a human being. It’s just fucking sad.
Sorry for the rant.
Oh, and TC: Mariano had Robinson’s number before it was retired. Once he retires no one will use it as a Yankee. There were several players wearing it when it was retired and they all got to keep it. It almost sounds like, oh, I don’t know . . . an homage?
You know who Red Sox fans loved? Dom DiMaggio. Fans absolutely loved the guy. Gritty player, sparkplug of the offense, excellent center fielder, shared an Italian heritage with tens of thousands of Bostonians.
You know who else they loved? Rick Burleson. The Rooster. Great defensive shortstop. Decently scrappy hitter (or so we thought at the time). Serious red ass who loved screaming at umpires and Yankees.
You know who they loved in the ’90s and ’00s? Trot Nixon. The ultimate dirt dog. Had a few big hits in the playoffs. First guy into every brawl. Once pinwheeled his bat toward a pitcher who’d been nailing some of his teammates. Always had a filthy uniform.
You know what all these guys had in common? They all wore number 7 for the Sox for at least as many years as O’Neill wore 21 for the Yankees. Now J.D. Drew wears it, and the Sox managed to win the World Series anyway.
Yankee fans, get over yourselves.
Why do you think Reds fans are always booing Scott Hatteberg?
Because he wears #21, which, of course, will always be associated with that great Reds outfield hero from the 90s.
… Deion Sanders.
Paul O’Neill WAS the Yankees during those years. He was their heart and their toughness. What have they won since he left? Yes there were other players and clutch moments but the man was a tough an out as they come in the clutch for all those years. When I think of that great Yankee run I can only think of Paul O’Neill. (Pauly Baseball) I think it speaks volumes that Jeter and Mariano would lobby for this. (The Captains and supposed heart and soul of those years) I think it’s because they know that without him, their legacies and their trophy chest would look a lot different.
And if the Yankees hadn’t had that run after getting O’Neill what would they be but a complete bust for the last 30 years? The franchise would definitely not be what it is today. Even with all their money…
justyo.. lol. Pauly Baseball. You can only think of Paul O’Neill? You’ve GOT to be joking.
O’Neill is basically the zero-sum clutch player. For his career, he was .288, .363, 470. In the playoffs he was .284, .363, .465. Almost creepy how similar that is.
Pauly Baseball! Fantastic. I’m pretty sure Justyo’s post is brilliant satire ; )
Also, I actually don’t think it’s absurd to retire O’Neill’s number. Certainly worse players on other teams have had theirs retired. You can argue that the Yankees should have higher standards, but you can argue the opposite too.
What is absurd, and I think this is Joe’s point, is to boo a guy for trying to honor Roberto Freaking Clemente for the sake of Paul O’FreakingNeill.
I’m with you 100%, Poz, but don’t drag Bernie into this, it weakens the argument. Bernie was a better hitter, both peak and career, than Puckett or Dale Murphy. Not that this makes him a Hall of Famer, quite, but it makes it not absurd to have him in retired-number territory, even for a Yankee.
Paul O’Neill was a pretty good player who played on some successful teams because he was surrounded by better players. He was also a whiny bitch.
So is anyone who protests about his number being recycled.
As a diehard Yankee-
A year ago, I would have booed LaTroy Hawkins- but that was before I heard people boo LaTroy Hawkins and thought about what that meant.
O’Neill was a very good/ great player on some legendary Yankee teams. He doesn’t belong with the legendary players from those teams (Jeter and Rivera).
What everyone seems to forget is that there is a middle ground between retiring the guy’s number and fondly remembering him: Paul O’Neill should join Allie Reynolds and Lefty Gomez as players who have plaques but whose numbers are not retired.
The Steinbrenner Yankees went too far retiring numbers for the sake of nostalgia (Reggie? Guidry? Great players, but not Ruth-Gehrig-DiMaggio; they’re not even Scooter level Yankees). We can have Paul O’Neill Day without retiring #21.
I love the fact that some continue to point to guys like O’Neill and Brosius when discussing the difference between the Yanks that won 4 Series in 5 seasons and the Yanks who can’t even get to the Series, when in fact the difference lies entirely in the pitching staffs of those teams.
How about a compromise for the Yankee fans. Instead of retiring O’Neill’s number, why not bury his jersey in the new stadium. If Big Papi doesn’t qualify for that honor, O’Neill at least should.
You don’t see any current Yankee wearing Joe Pepitone’s #4 do you? Nuff said.
Joe,
Love your writing and I agree with most of the things you say, but I think the “Paul-FREAKING-O’NEILL!?” response is selling the O’Neill fans just a bit short.
I’m not saying I agree with the booing of Hawkins or that I would do the same thing — I wouldn’t — but I can see why certain fans were less than happy with his wearing #21. Whatever O’Neill was or wasn’t (and certainly, his numbers don’t qualify him as a Yankee “immortal”), he certainly means more to Yankee fans — especially those who grew up with the late 90s teams — than Hawkins, a journeyman middle reliever who brought a decidedly mediocre track record to New York (and has since proceeded to underperform even those low expectations.)
I feel pretty confident saying that the majority of the boo-birds would _not_ have had that reaction if the number had been “inherited” by an up-and-coming prospect or a trade/free-agency pickup who was expected to contribute to the team at a level comparable to what O’Neill did in the nineties.
Also, I have the utmost respect for Hawkins’ desire to honor Roberto Clemente, but think there’s sort of a contradiction between believing that Clemente’s number should be retired while at the same time choosing to wear it himself. If the best way to honor past greats is to wear their numbers, then why retire numbers at all?
I think many people are either misreading or making too much of the Hawkins booing.
First off, Yankee fans (and any team’s fans for that matter) do not always latch onto the best player. Sure, O’Neill wasn’t a superstar, but he still helped define the championship teams with his “warrior†mentality. Like Lou Piniella and Billy Martin before him, O’Neill’s feisty attitude has made him more popular to Yankee fans than his career performance would seem to suggest.
Secondly, I don’t think Yankee fans are deifying O’Neill or even demanding his number be retired. They just don’t want to see a player like Hawkins, who was a very unpopular signing, being the first to wear #21. If Hughes, Joba or a more established free agent had claimed the number, no one would be booing.
Finally, I can appreciate Hawkins’ desire to honor Clemente, but the fact remains that if Elston Howard’s #32 wasn’t retired, this wouldn’t be an issue. If Hawkins is so devoted to Clemente, why has he never worn #21 before?
Hey, is that a trick poll question? Who is Mike Scmidt?
I love baseball, and enjoy much of the nonsense that surrounds it, but really – caring so much about a retired player’s number that you boo a new guy for wearing it?
Sounds like a bunch of Yankees fans need new hobbies, or at the very least to grow up.
Paul O’Neill = whiny little bitch.
As usual, people are overreacting to this. I attended two of the FOUR home games Hawkins has pitched in this year…and maybe 5 percent of the crowd was booing him.
“On the whole, from what I can tell, Yankees fans tend to be a little classier in this regard than Mets fans, who are _so_ grateful to have David Wright to cheer for and can ignore Delgado (this is a sweeping generalization, I know, but I said “on the wholeâ€).”
Before I get bent out of shape can someone please explain to me what this means?
Players should start wearing unique 4-digit numbers and then teams can retire them all. For a while, anyway. No sense offending any fans who haven’t moved past the age of 10 emotionally.
To the person who claimed this is in anyway racism on the part of Yankees fans, I can almost guarantee the same thing would have happened if Hawkins decided to wear #51. One of the best things about those mid-90’s Yankee teams (at least for myself, who grew up with those teams) was the fact that they didn’t have any individual superstar as the dominant face of the team. Jeter and Rivera are the two who are most known to non-Yankees fans, but to fans of those four World Series teams, the unit of Bernie Williams, Jeter, O’Neil, Posada, Rivera, even Tino will always be a special group.
I didn’t go along with the boo’ing when I was at a game earlier this season, and I don’t think the Yankees should retire O’Neil’s number, but I can understand why fans reacted in such a way.
I also realize it’s O’Neill
It also in no way shocks me that O’Neill led the Majors in grounding into double plays twice. Immediately when seeing that stat the image of O’Neill pulling a ground ball to second, running down to first, and firing his helmet into right field popped in my mind.
It still shocks me how goofy O’Neill comes across when he does commentary on the YES Network since he’s so associated with throwing tantrums after outs.
Oh look, another Yankee bashing blog. Perhaps that’s too harsh, but Royals, Cardinals, Cubs, Dodgers, or any other set of fans don’t quite understand the annoyance of constantly having to defend your team against everyone, even strangers. Is being a fan of a team that can support the highest payroll cool? Yup, you bet. Are the fans the ones who are signing all these players, or better yet, the ones who are not signing these players for your team? No. I’m just from NY. But I digress, on to the blog. Why is it a big deal? Paul O’Neill was a very popular player. LaTroy’s first appearance as a Yankee was not very popular. If he threw 9 scoreless innings to begin the year, no one would say boo. No one was upset leading up to the season. He bombed and people found a creative way to boo him. Some people took it too far but someone always takes it too far. It was a unique way to voice displeasure (always a Yankee tradition) while throwing back to some of the better times. It was fun, harmless and is going away as Hawkins pitches better.
And one more thing, Mattingly for HoF 2009!
Crash Davis, you meant to say, “As a card-carrying member of Red Sox Nation, I am a huge loser,” because that is what everyone knew about you after the first part of the sentence.
William (48) –
Good call. I live in the NY area too and I watch most or all of every game and when I read Joe’s post I thought, what am I missing here?
It’s a phony controversy. Non-issue for all but the most moronic Yankee meatheads.
Date: April 16, 2008
I love Paul O’Neill. Loved his game. Loved his passion. Loved his roll over the pile in 1996. Loved how the fans chanted his name as he came off the field after his last game. Loved how he would practice swinging while in right field. Loved how he bashed watercoolers (most of the time, at least).
However, the hue and cry about anyone wearing #21 in pinstripes is overblown. Morgan Ensberg was randomly assigned the number in Spring Training and people howled. Ensberg took a different number once the team moved North.
So new Yank LaTroy Hawkins took #21, as a way to honor his boyhood hero, Roberto Clemente. This was not just being assigned a number and nothing more. Clemente is a legitimate icon within baseball and hero of many for his humanitarian efforts which ultimately lead to his death.
That Hawkins was hearing “numerous vulgar comments from Yankees fans during the Grapefruit League campaign†is so lame and disappointing, I don’t even know where to begin.
Hawkins eagerly accepted No. 21 as a tribute to Hall of Famer Roberto Clemente but quickly learned that a pinstriped No. 21 has other meanings for Yankees fans. Unaware he was donning a number that had not been worn since O’Neill retired following the 2001 World Series, Hawkins was booed when introduced on Opening Day at Yankee Stadium. Fans chanted “Paul O’Neill†during one of his appearances in the Bronx.
People, fellow Yanks fans…let’s get a grip on reality again. Paulie is an all-time favorite for all of us, but he’s not The Mick, Joltin’ Joe, Cap’n Jetes, Thurman, etc. But it’s ONLY A FREAKIN’ NUMBER! We need Hawkins to have a good year if we want to go far. Heckling this guy for a number choice, and with good reason behind the choice, is just DUMB. Paulie is not in the Hall of Fame. He might be in OUR Hall of Fame, but c’mon people, let’s regain some perspective.
We all want to relive and remember the “good old days†(hence the Yanks being forced to overpay for our own stars) so badly that we’re willing to haze the current players? How crazy is that?
So where does this end? With a great punchline, of course. What number will Hawkins don going forward? #22, last worn by…. Roger Clemens. Who, I am guessing, will also not be in the Hall of Fame, by the way.
Fans, I beg you: Cheer the hell outta LaTroy Hawkins next time he takes the hill, no matter how good or bad he performs.
You think that’s bad, wait until someone starts wearing Brosius’ number. There will be Molotov Cocktails on the field, I tell ya.
According to Yankees fans, Paul O’Neill and Scott Brosius were the two greatest players who ever lived.
O’Neill could have put this silly “controversy” to rest by acknowledging that the fans are great but booing LaTroy is wrong but instead he lapped up the attention, clinging to glories past and pretty much agreed with the few bonehead fans.
I lost respect for O’neill. Grow up, you don’t own #21.
“If Hawkins is so devoted to Clemente, why has he never worn #21 before?”
Without looking it up, I believe it was because at every other team, the number was already taken.
As a Cub fan, I can tell you that there are a great many other reasons you can find to boo LaTroy Hawkins. If you haven’t discovered them yet, trust me: you will.
I dont think the fans are booing the number being worn, they are booing the guy who is wearing the number. If it was taken by Joba or Robinson Cano, they would not care. But Latroy Hawkins? They would not accept that.
When 21 is assigned or taken by a good young player, no one will care. See Robinson Cano wearing 24.
As a Yankee fan, this is somewhat embarrassing because I too agree that Paulie’s number should not be retired. We should be supporting our current players 100% so they do the best job in trying to win #27 and not making it harder for them by booing them because of a number.
Personally, I am embarresed by those supposed Yankee fans who would boo Hawkins over the number on his jersey. Paul O’Neill is a large part of why this was blow out of proportion.
O’Neill was given two different chances during c0verage of Yankee games to be a man. Yet, he acted as immature as he did when he wore pinstripes, and let his ego get the better of him.
I’ve been a Yankee fan for a long time. Mantle was my man. How does a very good player rate among the greats? In this case, not at all.
I personally will boo if they give the egomaniac what he wants. I will boo if the Yankees retire the number 21 for Paul O’Neill.
The “fans” who are so in awe of O’Neill have no perpective of the game. None. Retired numbers should be reserved for greatness. Newsflash, Paul O’Neill was not great. He was a hot head who also hurt the team at times due to his silly immature rants.
Put O’Neill up against Mantle, Ruth, Gherig, Berra, heck even put him up against Tino, and you see there is something lacking.
A person who can’t control his ego and emotions should be pittied, not honored.
O’Neill had the opportunity to show he was worthy. He blew it. All he needed to do was say, look, I believe that Hawkins is a great guy. He offered Patterson to put anything on his hotel bill to make him feel better after being cut in spring training. Show that you can be humble, and not living in the past.
By the way, while there are a number of idiot “fans” who did boo Hawkins for wearing that number, it wasn’t the majority of those at the Stadium. Loud doesn’t always mean that the whole group are brain dead.
I’m a Yankee fan and I say let Hawins wear it! He was wearing to honor the great Roberto Clemente
TC – Did you hear that Mariano told LaTroy to switch or was it just advice to stop the so-called “Fans” from booing him?
I don’t think Mariano is a hypocrite. I think he and Derek were talking to LaTroy and asking him if wearing #21 was worth the hassle, but I could be wrong.
Die-hard Yankee fan here, who’s right there with you. The booing of Hawkins was pathetic.
However, “And then I read that Jeter and others may be trying to get Paul O’Neill’s number RETIRED?” is a misapprehension. Apparently some folks put a thing on Hawkins’s locker from a group that’s trying to get #21 retired across baseball, a la Jackie Robinson’s number, in order to honor Clemente.
Joe -
What a great freakin’ column! Couldn’t have said it better myself. This has insight, humor and was hard-hitting.
Look – Paul O’Neill is my favorite Yankee in my 26 years on this earth. Love the guy – but his number does NOT deserve to be retired. Right after he hung up the cleats, I felt like it should, but putting it into proper perspective, the right thing to do is NOT even THINK about it.
More appropriately, the Yankees should retire #96 in honor of the 1996 team that started the great 1990’s Yankee dynasty.
If anyone is interested in reading my take on the whole #21 debate, you can check that out here:
http://nyystadiuminsider.com/2008/04/21-debate-irrational-yankee-fans-and.html
“You think that’s bad, wait until someone starts wearing Brosius’ number. There will be Molotov Cocktails on the field, I tell ya.”
Its already done. Damon wears 18. Yep, thats right. A “former idiot” Red Sox player wears Brosius’s number now – yet all was strangely quiet on the Western Front when happened. Certainly, there was none of this kind of immaturity and embarrassment. I guess it really does prove that these fans are irrational about their defense of Paulie, as Brosius was wasn’t afforded the same “reverence”, neither was Tino when Cano changed to it last year. I also bet that Brosius couldn’t have cared less about Damon wearing his number.
If Jeter retired tomorrow, and they gave the number 2 to Alberto Gonzalez, I wouldn’t give a shit. It’s ridiculous how people get worked up about this nonsense.
And for whatever it’s worth (zero), the blatant generalizing against ALL yanks fans is pretty lame. While there are the loud, obnoxious ones, there are some of us, however rare we might be, who are more levelheaded. And remember, most of us are just rooting for our hometown 9, just like you do in your town. But you can keep hating on NY and NYers. we’ll be just fine.
Most Yankees fans I know, self included, think it’s immature at best, the few fans that would delude themselves into think that Paul O’Neill is on the same level as Clemente.
I am a HUGE Paul O’Neill fan. Heck, I even just won a contest on his website.
But what Clemente did transcends the game–perhaps not as much as Jackie Robinson, because if no Jackie, no Clemente–but still, an icon that may be one of only a few whose legacy is far more important than baseball itself.
Most Yankee fans, if they boo Hawkins, will boo him for having a 9.00 (I think) ERA at Yankee Stadium, not because of the number on his back.
It’s unfortunate, that even in this day in age, the idiots manage to be the loudest of the fans.
Hmpf… Paul O’Neill?
I felt like I’d been sucker-punched when some big, fat offensive lineman dropped into stance one day for the Pokes wearing Bob Lilly’s legendary #74. Paul O’Neill?
And, in baseball, you don’t even NEED the numbers…. sTranger and LAofA wore 50 jerseys of #42 the other day… nobody had any trouble telling who was who…
Wish Paul O’Neill were a sTRanger, tho… we could use some fire.
Hey Joe – my daughter recommended your blog to me. It’s terrific. I also heard you on WFAN with Ed Randall talking about Buck O’Neill, and that was terrific as well. But this stuff about LaTroy Hawkins – well, first of all it’s old news. May I also say that I think all this stuff about Clemente is irrelevant to the issue about what number a player wears when he plays for the Yankees? You may remember that Clemens was not allowed to take #21 when he came over from Toronto. For you to quote numbers and tell me how I should feel about O’Neill makes no sense to me. I wouldn’t boo Hawkins – I don’t boo anybody – well, that’s a lie, I booed Clemens when he hit Scott Brosius – but as a rule, I don’t like to boo players, and I don’t boo anybody who plays for my team, even when they are not doing so well. But don’t be saying we cannot have strong feelings about O’Neill – think of what he helped to give Yankees fans. Don’t we owe him something? I think they should just put 21, 24 and 51 in the vault for a few years, that’s all. But the bigger issue is, what makes someone a winning player? Not a great player, but a winning player. You tell me, Joe, you’re the expert.
When thinking about retiring a player’s number, especially when dealing with the Yankees, one cannot help but compare that player’s statistics to those of other greats. O’Neill will never have the eye-popping stats of Mantle or Ruth or Dimaggio. However, analysis of O’Neill based solely on numbers drastically short-changes his contributions to the team.
No, he’s not the best OF in team history statistically, but what he meant to the organization and its turnaround from laughing stock to dynasty is immeasurable. It was his arrival in 1993 that turned the tide. He was there building the team’s winning attitude before Rivera and Jeter were up in the bigs cementing the final pieces. He became the quintessential Yankee (as we now see “Yankees”), putting winning first and individual glory second. He replaced the Mel Halls (and literally Roberto Kelly) of previous years who were poisons in the clubhouse. When he arrived in 1993, the Yankees were legit again for the first time in a long time. They were playing meaningful games in September. They had some fight.
It’s easy (and deserved) to pile the credit on Mo and Jeter for the dynasty that everyone is so eager to reference and write books about. But O’Neill changed the organization, and that can’t be measured in some sort of arbitrary way of
counting MVP awards or looking at stats (and let’s be honest, his were VERY good). This is why his number should be retired and someone like Dave Winfield’s should not.
All this being said, booing Hawkins is completely ridiculous.
Paul O’Neill could have squelched this thing by telling the fans to lay off, but he didn’t do so. He was asked on a broadcast what he thought of the whole thing, and he just said something like he’s proud that the fans think of him and #21, and blah, blah, blah.
I’m a 40+ year Yankees fan, and this kind of stuff is embarassing. Hank should make a rule right now: No more numbers retired until the player goes into the Hall of Fame.
It was comical hearing the BOOs hitting Hawkins but that had to be expected. This is the fault of the Yankees, not the fans. The Yankees are the ones who HELD that jersey number off limits. Giving #21 to a guy, who signed a 1 year deal, was a recipe for disaster
That said, the easiest way to move on with this uniform issue is to give 21 to the next HUGE prospect that they plan on sticking around for a while, like Joba.
Bravo to all the Yankees fans who are acknowledging how ridiculous booing Hawkins is. As an Orioles fan I tend to lump all Yankees (and Red Sox) fans into one “obnoxious bandwagon” category. You guys have shown me that many of you are true, rational fans of the game, as well as of the Yankees. However, I’m still convinced that 98% of Red Sox Nation are obnoxious, bandwagon-jumping pseudo-fans.
Important Clarification: Deion Sanders did not play for the Red Sox.
The Red Sox would never bring a defensive back who can’t tackle.
D.B. Cooper did not say that he did, but amid all this Yankees talk, I didn’t want anyone to mistakenly insert “sox” into what he wrote.
The writer of this blog is dead on.
This whole “21″ shenanigans are seriously disgraceful. I can’t believe I’m part for the same stupid fanhood that booed A-rod and demanded a curtain call on countless players from “The Dynasty” when they played long after their decline.
You should also point out that Paul O’Neill did not nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, even almost encouraged the booing of the fans. Seriously a disgrace.
I love O’Neill and all (first jersey I ever bought with my self-earned money was a road 21 jersey) can the rest of the Yankee fandom just get it in their heads that he’s not great enough to have his number retired.
Paul O’Neill helped lead the Yankees to 4 World Titles, folks.
Let me repeat that, FOUR. He played every game like it was an elimination game and treated every at bat like it was the most important of his career. He was genuinely (and visibly) pi$$ed when he didn’t deliver. He never gave up or in. That, to me, is a “great†and “special†player to admire and support. While I don’t think the number should be retired, critics are totally underestimating what Paul meant to this franchise.
# 21 was out of circulation for quite a while so to see it now after 6 years of not seeing it was a shock to a lot of people. I don’t care if Hawkins was booed, do your homework buddy – consider whose shoes {jersey} you are filling and choose another number. They weren’t booing at him directly and anyone who can’t see that is a moron.
In the current day of chokers like PayRod, excuse us for trying to honor a player who delivered when we needed him and actually WON. He was a true warrior and I can think of no one (save for Mo, DJ and Posada) on the current team that comes close to having Paul’s passion and loyalty. Forgive us for trying to honor the career of a player who will likely not be honored by the organization in the fashion he might deserve. Sometimes it’s not about stats.
The overly critical opinions and judgmental comments are really just Yankee haters doing what they do best — so enjoy it guys, and anyone that doesn’t understand my argument never had a player like Paul O’Neill leading their team to 4 World Titles. Most of you will never see 1 championship in your lifetime let alone 4, so forgive me if I think the author and many others are totally out of touch.
I don’t understand Yankees fans. I’m sorry, but they strike me as rather classless.
To be fair, Red Sox fans have also been classless lately.
You see, once you win or when you are the biggest badass on the block, the standards of classiness are different than when you are mediocre or a loser. With with class. With with dignity.
If you’ve lost, well, you’ve got little to hang you hat on, so it is understandable that you might do some silly/stupid things to make yourself feel better. Does that make it classy? Of course not! But it comes off different.
So, when the Red Sox fans used to taunt the Yankees, well, it was different than the Yankees fans taunting the Red Sox. Something along the lines of just picking on people your own size.
I don’t know if it is something about the Bronx, something about New York City or just something about Yankees fans, but they appear to be classless in victory, and when they don’t win they talk/act as though they have a right to win.
In that context, this LaTroy Hawkins thing just doesn’t surprise me. They boo a player for wearing the number of an important — but not all time franchise great — player of seven years ago? That seems about right.
Joe is right. This is the the frigging Yankees, for God’s sake! More than 25 hall of famers were Yankees for at least five years with at least three more coming (i.e. Jeter, Rivera and Torre).
If you don’t like Hawkins, it’s ok to boo him, I guess. He’s on your team, has had an ERA+ of at least 102 each year this decade, but one (and that was back in 2001). Last year his ERA+ was 140!
This year, in his less than 10 innings, he’s been bad. No question. But he also has an established record. Sure, he could suck this year, his abilities fallen off a cliff.
But what does that have to do with his jersey number?
I think the reason yankee fans are holding on so tightly to the paul o’neill days is because its the last time their team had an actual personality. And just so happens to be the last time they won it all.
Since then, its been a bunch of blank checks running around the field with AARP members on the mound awaiting their next dl stint.
LT (comment #81) = typical Yankee fan who I am embarrassed to be associated with. ugh.
RE: #81 LT:
But he cleverly changed around the nickname “A Rod” to “Pay Rod”! Don’t you get the joke? He has a large contract! LOL!
Nah, you’re right, he’s a buffoon. The exact type of fan who expects players to throw temper tantrums when they fail in order to commiserate with nutty fans who don’t understand that baseball is a game centered around failure and not allowing your emotions to interfere with your abilities.
“He was a very good player on some great teams, a fan favorite, a scrappy player who unlike many other scrappy players could actually hit. I appreciate that Yankees fans loved him. I do.”
Yo’ 75 – That’s what Joe Po said about Paul O’Neill. He didn’t say he wasn’t worthy of Yankee fans love – in fact he said he appreciated it. What he said was he couldn’t understand booing LaTroy Hawkins for wearing O’Neill’s jersey number – 6 years after the fact.
And then you say “Forgive us for trying to honor the career of a player who will likely not be honored by the organization in the fashion he might deserve.” To which I’d say, maybe booing the hell out of one of your current players for wearing a jersey number in honor of another player he chose to honor, isn’t the best way to “honor” Paul O’Neill, nor Derek Jeter, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, etc. , etc., etc.
Be like the Red Sox fans – Boo Hawkins for stinking the joint out, as did the Sox fans for J.D. Drew, who, one season removed, wore the jersey number (7) of an equally much loved, passionate, heart on the sleeve, guy in Trot Nixon.
Oops sorry Jack Helmuth. Missed my number(!). You actually said the classy thing “All this being said, booing Hawkins is completely ridiculous”
It was LT (81) who was sure Joe failed to understand the love the Yankees fans have for O’Neill.
Look what you guys are all missing is this one simple point: had LaTroy Hawkins pitched well the first few games at the stadium, no one woulda cared about what number he was wearing. Instead, the guy came in and gave up a bunch of hits to teams like the Rays. When the guy is making Kyle Farnsworth look like a good option to Yankees fans, then there is a problem. He’s pitched much better as of late and if this was how he started the season he’d still be in uniform 21.
It’s ridiculous to have a “no retired numbers until the player makes the HoF” edict. Sometimes a player can be an all-time great in your organization, whose contributions transcend stats, but still miss out on the Hall. Let’s not get silly.
As a Yankee fan, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Kudos Joe Posnanski!
You dont get it. You are not a New Yawker. You don’t get heart, you don’t get soul. You dont get the commraderie the we News Yorkers share. This has nothing to do with Clemente. Paul O’Neil was a warrior. A warrior- when this city in the time of 9/11- when this city needed a warrior and Paul O’Neil ,unsung, answered that call. He plays the day after his dad dies. I remember seeing him in the outfield, tears on his face…
I remember his sister, a columnist for the New York Times trying to explain what makes Paul O’ Neil Paul O’Neil and reading the article and wishing I could know him as a friend.
You are thinking like a rube. O’Neil is family. We are not booing Clemente, we are not booing Hawkins, because he wears #21, we are booing because we miss one of ours and we are all a little diminished because he is no longer playing.
We are venting, it’s what we New Yorkers do.
mfpsand…sorry, I’m a New Yorker too, although not a Yankee fan, and that’s just a crock. O’Neill was a real good ballplayer, but never the key element to those Yankee teams, despite what many fans think. If Paul O’Neill meets the standard of retired numbers, we may as well switch to 3 digits. No “warrior” or other justifying labels changes the fact that they booed a player 6 YEARS after O’Neill retired for darign to wear his number. I wonder how many of the boo-birds even know who Clemente was…. I know this doesn’t represent all Yankee fans, but those who did need to get a life and a little perspective
You know, it’s odd…. we’ve got quite a few Yanks fans claiming that it isn’t really about O’Neill’s jersey, that it’s because Hawkins has stunk the joint up, and they (the fans) just found a creative way to boo the guy.
And then we’ve got a few others who say that Ensberg had the number in spring training and was given the same treatment.
So which is it?
The Yankees have the best-looking, classiest uniform in all of sports.
And yet the numbers on some of these guys’ backs are just plain ugly. Joba’s 62? 65 for Hughes last year?
There are many other ways of honoring a great player besides permanently banning all future players from wearing his number, and in the process, forcing today’s Yankees to wear monstrosities like 53, 62, and 65 in regular-season games.
I thought the center-field monuments did a great job of this. A great franchise like the Yankees can always make new monuments for new great players, but there are only so many numbers you can take off people’s backs before things start to get embarrassing. Is the “honor” of a retired number really worth seeing talented young pitchers like Joba or Phil Hughes suffer with those monstrous numbers on their backs?
Sometimes I think baseball should do what soccer does in the World Cup — the 40 guys on the 40-man roster get numbers 1-40, no exceptions. If people go on the DL, the callups get 41, 42, 43… in order.
The fact that you even asked the question means you know nothing about baseball and nothing about being a true fan of a team. Paul O’Neill wasn’t just another Yankee who put up good numbers. He was a guy that helped signify the Yankee turnaround from laughing stock to the champions we watching play. I don’t mean to take personal shots, but you have no clue what the guy symbolizes for our team and I’ll thank you not to offer your opinion on a subject that has nothing to do with you. I understand Hawkins wanting to honor his idol, but its not like he had a personal relationship with Clemente. They never had the chance to meet. There are other ways that Hawkins can honor his idol. But as long as he’s a Yankee, and a marginal player at best, he shouldn’t wear #21 our of respect for its former owner. You need only look to Game 5 of the 2001 World Series to understand what Paul O’Neill was to the Yankees. Can you name another player that was serenaded off the field in his last home game by 56,000 fans? I sure can’t.
Hey Giambi: Tommy John called — he wants his No. 25 back… and retired.
Bottom line: Paulie was legit — LaTroy, not… A more important Yankee can have 21. Joba wants it — he can have it. LaTroy, like so many other tepid middle relievers (particularly Yankee middle relievers) will be a distant memory by 2009. Hear that Farns?….
Interesting that Sheff has Trammel’s old No. and Guidry, who had his 49 retired by the Yanks didn’t even get a call to say he wasn’t going to be brought back as pitching coach this season. Then again, Trammel is now managing from Tiger Stadium. Maybe if O’Neill gets his No. retired, he’ll have to pay his own way into the new Yankee Stadium for Paul O’Neill Day.
I think it’s odd that we’d discuss Paul O’Neill’s post-Yankee career without someone mentioning his service as Secretary of the Treasury.
You could get your ass kicked for saying crap like that.
Thanks to Josh in DC for making me laugh out loud in the office! Are you trying to get me fired?
I’m always amused that so many Yankee fans (not just the idiotic minority) think Paul O’Neill’s tantrums were a badge of honor. What about sportsmanship? What about being mindful of the fact that, rightly or not, young people look to you as a role model?
Put it this way– if your son took a baseball bat to a water cooler during a Little League game, would you be proud? If not, why do you hold a grown-up to a lower standard?
Yankee fans are now like Red Sox fans (i.e. confusing stupidity for passion).
These are the same idiots who think the reason they haven’t won a World Series recently is because of one of the top 3 players in the game (ARod), and not because they lack pitching.
Thanks, aquaman. Glad to help. Er, harm.
I always liked to imagine Paul O’Neill testifying before some Senate panel …
Sen. Blowhard: Mr. O’Neill, how are you going to deal with the decline in the foreign bond markets?
O’Neill: [Tosses table over.]
Exeunt
It’s funny – i always thought the yankees won 4 titles because of key, cone, pettite, el duque, clemens and having the best closer in the history of baseball
How wrong I was – they won because their right fielder would throw temper tantrums..i mean was a WARRIOR! He also taught chuck norris everything he knows and can cure diseases with his tears
If you watched Tim McCarver during those years, you’d know that it was actually Scott Brosius’s ability to bare-hand rollers down the third-base line that was the difference between winning 114 games and missing the playoffs entirely.
But you know what’s truly amazing? That Paul O’Neill’s Reds only made the playoffs once. I guess he wasn’t firey until 1995. All those wasted years, not being firey.
Also, in 1997, when the Yankees lost to the Indians in the ALDS in 5 games, and O’Neill batted .421 and slugged .842? The Yankees didn’t even advance to the next round! He must have been too firey or something.
Let’s face it: this guy is nothing like A-Rod.
“The overly critical opinions and judgmental comments are really just Yankee haters doing what they do best — so enjoy it guys, and anyone that doesn’t understand my argument never had a player like Paul O’Neill leading their team to 4 World Titles. Most of you will never see 1 championship in your lifetime let alone 4, so forgive me if I think the author and many others are totally out of touch.”
Wonderful, LT. What about your FELLOW YANKEE FANS who don’t agree with your sentiments? Are we just “Yankee haters” too?
Thanks though, for reminding me of why there are Yankee haters out there – a lot of it is to do with obnoxious arrogant Yankee fans like you. Fans who cling to past achievements like it was your own personal achievement. Fans like you who use it to belittle and condescend fans of other teams who haven’t been as fortunate, but are still fans of their teams nevertheless. Thank God, he didn’t make me a Yankee fan like that.
mfpsand – I’m a Yankee fan, but I’m not a New Yorker. If thats what it takes to be a real New Yorker, you’re welcome to it. This Yankee fan doesn’t want any part of it. Paul O’Neill was a warrior after 9/11? Apparently not warrior enough to singlehandedly deliver them a world champsionship that year.
““You think that’s bad, wait until someone starts wearing Brosius’ number. There will be Molotov Cocktails on the field, I tell ya.â€
Its already done. Damon wears 18. Yep, thats right. A “former idiot†Red Sox player wears Brosius’s number now – yet all was strangely quiet on the Western Front when happened.”
I knew I should have looked that up when I wrote that. But yes, very strange that nobody cried about Brosius’ defilement at the hands of a former Sawx, yet when everyone bitches at A-Rod, they’re always saying he’s no Brosius.
So if Brosius > A-Rod, who coincidentally is only the best player currently playing, yet nobody cries over retiring Brosius’ number, then Paul O’Neill must have been Ted Williams, Babe Ruth and Stan Musial, all three reborn into one body!
Oh wait.
Yankees fans…
“I think the reason yankee fans are holding on so tightly to the paul o’neill days is because its the last time their team had an actual personality. And just so happens to be the last time they won it all.”
It just so happens that that was also the last time they had any PITCHING. But you’re right, it was the PERSONALITY that won those world series!
It wasn’t that Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez couldn’t pitch worth a damn as a Yankee, it was the fact that they were major asses without personality that sunk them in game 7 in 2004.
Anyone who rooted for the “Cowboy Up” Red Sox as well as the 25 players-25 cabs Red Sox surely understands how much more fun it is to root for a likable bunch, right?
When did Paul O’Neill lead the Yankees to any WS titles? There’s a few folks who I think might be better described as “leading” those Yankees to the WS..you know, the Manager, the Capatain, the 4 or 5 best players on the team, none of which were O’Neill…I guess it’s possible he might become Manager some day and then he could lead them to victory….or not.
Wait, did someone really claim that Paul O’Neill lead the Yankees to four championships? I must say, I am mightily impressed that someone who holds that belief has the ability to type on a keyboard. The following is from O’Neill’s wikipedia page:
“n Game 5 of the 2001 World Series, O’Neill got possibly one of the most emotional sendoffs in baseball history. While standing in right field in the 9th inning with the Yankees down 2-0, the entire stadium chanted his name. When the inning ended, O’Neill was still being cheered. With tears in his eyes, he tipped his cap, and another roar went up from the crowd at Yankee Stadium. The Yankees won the game 3-2, but lost the series 4 games to 3. Since his retirement after the 2001 World Series, his number 21 has not been worn by any Yankee player, leading to speculation that it will be officially retired. Yankees relief pitcher LaTroy Hawkins briefly wore the number in the 2008 season but, on April 16, 2008, Hawkins switched to number 22 in response to the criticism he received by many Yankee fans. All the more suggesting that number 21 may one day be retired for O’Neill.”
Who wrote this crap? Possibly one of the most emotional sendoffs? The fact that someone else wore his number but gave it us suggests the number will be retired? I think LT needs to stop editing wiki pages.
“O’Neill was given two different chances during coverage of Yankee games to be a man”
Yeah, but he had innumerable chances during his playing career to do the same, but he mostly acted like a little b*tch: “Oh, I got called out on strikes looking! It’s so unfair!”
“It wasn’t that Kevin Brown and Javier Vazquez couldn’t pitch worth a damn as a Yankee, it was the fact that they were major asses without personality that sunk them in game 7 in 2004.”
I get your point, but something about the way you say they “couldn’t pitch worth a damn as a Yankee” illustrates why so many people hate Yankees fans.
What, they could’ve pitched worth a damn for somebody else, but being a Yankee was too much for them? There are always extenuating circumstances, but a good player is a good player.
Is it just me, or has the whole concept of retired numbers starting to get way too much attention? This is not the Hall of Fame we’re talking about. As long as Gene Autrey’s “number” hangs on the wall in Anaheim, as long as the Indians can retire a number for their fans, it’s obviously just something that teams do to commemorate their own history. So anyone who’s not a Yankees fan, not a part of the Yankee community, is missing the point. O’Neill (and Bernie) deserves his own space in Monument Park not because of his OPS+, but because the recent run of greatness began with the trade that brought him to the Bronx. There are some guys you have to see to appreciate, and the way you feel about O’Neill is probably the same way I feel whenever you write about how awesome Frank White was.
Paul should be in the Hall.
Hawkins should not have HIS number.
Jeter is a better fielding SS than Ozzie Smith.
Spending money has nothing to do with our success. We have a smart GM.
Donny Baseball should be in the Hall.
Thurman Munson was better than Johnny Bench . Then again Posada is also better than Bench.
If Hawkins wants to properly honor Clemente, he should learn a pitch other than the ol’ number 1.
I’m tired of watching Hawkins and Professor Farnsworth having a contest to see who can throw the hardest, straightest, right down the middle of the pipe fastball which ends up 450 feet from the plate.
Hawkins can wear whatever number he wants. I’m going to boo him because he sucks as a pitcher.