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	<title>Comments on: Banny Log 40208</title>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11629</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11629</guid>
		<description>Hey Joe,  I think Banny can be the absolute linchpin of this rotation and possibly team. Becuase Banny stays within himself, and he isnt an overthrower, i see alot of healthy years holding down the #3 spot while pitchers come and go.

BTW,  is ESPN forwarding you Neyers paycheck. Cause all his blogs in the last 2 weeks have included your homework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Joe,  I think Banny can be the absolute linchpin of this rotation and possibly team. Becuase Banny stays within himself, and he isnt an overthrower, i see alot of healthy years holding down the #3 spot while pitchers come and go.</p>
<p>BTW,  is ESPN forwarding you Neyers paycheck. Cause all his blogs in the last 2 weeks have included your homework.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeS</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11623</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11623</guid>
		<description>hey Joe:

Otis Nixon was another player who was an absolute nut, not about statistics, but about information.  It&#039;s been 15 years, but I remember reading an interview where he talked about keeping track of his steals on a computer, writing down pitcher&#039;s moves and tendencies.  It was his own private computerized scouting report.

Here&#039;s hoping Banny continues to do well.  He seems like a great guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey Joe:</p>
<p>Otis Nixon was another player who was an absolute nut, not about statistics, but about information.  It&#8217;s been 15 years, but I remember reading an interview where he talked about keeping track of his steals on a computer, writing down pitcher&#8217;s moves and tendencies.  It was his own private computerized scouting report.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s hoping Banny continues to do well.  He seems like a great guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11615</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11615</guid>
		<description>If you people ever saw Burgos pitch before the trade, I don&#039;t see how you&#039;d want him.  I don&#039;t care if he was 22.  

He. Was. Brutal.

I&#039;m too lazy to see how many blown saves he had for the Royals, but it was a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you people ever saw Burgos pitch before the trade, I don&#8217;t see how you&#8217;d want him.  I don&#8217;t care if he was 22.  </p>
<p>He. Was. Brutal.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m too lazy to see how many blown saves he had for the Royals, but it was a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11611</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11611</guid>
		<description>I saw the 60 Minutes piece and was skeptical of Lowell&#039;s quote.  After reading this post, I was reminded about Ted Williams&#039;s strike zone.  He actually had a chart of what he hit depending where a ball was in the strike zone.  You can see it from this link.

http://champdesreves.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/strike-zone-ted-williams.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw the 60 Minutes piece and was skeptical of Lowell&#8217;s quote.  After reading this post, I was reminded about Ted Williams&#8217;s strike zone.  He actually had a chart of what he hit depending where a ball was in the strike zone.  You can see it from this link.</p>
<p><a href="http://champdesreves.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/strike-zone-ted-williams.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://champdesreves.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/strike-zone-ted-williams.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11605</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11605</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a Mets fan, and have been a huge fan of Bannister since he was at USC (my alma mater).  I root for him at every opportunity, and continue to be tremendously impressed with how intelligent he is.  Disappointed doesn&#039;t begin to express what I felt when the Mets traded Banny away, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s quite accurate to say that Banny pitched very well when he first came up to the majors.  I think it&#039;s only in hindsight that this trade looks unbalanced.

Banny was fantastic in the minors, posting respectable ERAs and great WHIPs.  He did it by posting a very nice +3/1 K/BB rate in the minors.  He made the Mets rotation out of spring training in &#039;06, and performed just well enough, but was contstantly in trouble,  consistantly putting runners on the bases on many occassions.  He worked out of enough jams to post a respectable-for-a-rookie 4.26 ERA, but his WHIP was an ugly 1.47 because he walked more batters than he struckout.    I&#039;m sure if you asked Banny he&#039;d admit that is no way to consistantly succeed in the majors.

Worse yet, his season followed a bad trend, his first couple starts were like his minor league starts, working efficiently to great results, but things turned south fast, his next 3 starts, he allowed *30* baserunners in 15 IP.  I&#039;ve no doubt that given the opportunity to straighten things out, Banny would&#039;ve, but tragically, Banny pulled a hammy running the bases in his 5th game.  (Fun fact, Banny has a career batting line of .333/.375/.533, if this pitching this doesn&#039;t work, maybe he can Rick Ankiel it in the outfield.  :) )

Anyway, after rehabbing for most of 4 months, BB finally returned to the Mets late in the year, and the rust showed, allowing 17 baserunners in 10 innings of work.  Not an encouraging trend in Mets front office eyes.  BB got the bad end of this small sample size, and it seems that the Mets figured he was a AAAA pitcher, a guy who could only get minor leaguers out.  The Mets probably had at least 3 other pitcher prospects more highly prized than BB (Pelfrey, Humber, recent draftee Kevin Mulvey).  Burgos was a 22 year old flamethrower who posted very nice minor league strikeout rates.   They were flipped, in a trade of solid performance for raw potential.

Now, I&#039;m not saying I liked the trade, not just because of my fandom of BB, but with his minor league resume, he should have been given a better shot.  That said, the trade is at least defensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a Mets fan, and have been a huge fan of Bannister since he was at USC (my alma mater).  I root for him at every opportunity, and continue to be tremendously impressed with how intelligent he is.  Disappointed doesn&#8217;t begin to express what I felt when the Mets traded Banny away, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s quite accurate to say that Banny pitched very well when he first came up to the majors.  I think it&#8217;s only in hindsight that this trade looks unbalanced.</p>
<p>Banny was fantastic in the minors, posting respectable ERAs and great WHIPs.  He did it by posting a very nice +3/1 K/BB rate in the minors.  He made the Mets rotation out of spring training in &#8216;06, and performed just well enough, but was contstantly in trouble,  consistantly putting runners on the bases on many occassions.  He worked out of enough jams to post a respectable-for-a-rookie 4.26 ERA, but his WHIP was an ugly 1.47 because he walked more batters than he struckout.    I&#8217;m sure if you asked Banny he&#8217;d admit that is no way to consistantly succeed in the majors.</p>
<p>Worse yet, his season followed a bad trend, his first couple starts were like his minor league starts, working efficiently to great results, but things turned south fast, his next 3 starts, he allowed *30* baserunners in 15 IP.  I&#8217;ve no doubt that given the opportunity to straighten things out, Banny would&#8217;ve, but tragically, Banny pulled a hammy running the bases in his 5th game.  (Fun fact, Banny has a career batting line of .333/.375/.533, if this pitching this doesn&#8217;t work, maybe he can Rick Ankiel it in the outfield.  <img src='http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p>Anyway, after rehabbing for most of 4 months, BB finally returned to the Mets late in the year, and the rust showed, allowing 17 baserunners in 10 innings of work.  Not an encouraging trend in Mets front office eyes.  BB got the bad end of this small sample size, and it seems that the Mets figured he was a AAAA pitcher, a guy who could only get minor leaguers out.  The Mets probably had at least 3 other pitcher prospects more highly prized than BB (Pelfrey, Humber, recent draftee Kevin Mulvey).  Burgos was a 22 year old flamethrower who posted very nice minor league strikeout rates.   They were flipped, in a trade of solid performance for raw potential.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m not saying I liked the trade, not just because of my fandom of BB, but with his minor league resume, he should have been given a better shot.  That said, the trade is at least defensible.</p>
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		<title>By: will</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11602</link>
		<dc:creator>will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11602</guid>
		<description>As a Mets fan I can&#039;t believe that I neglected to mention the Mets essentially gave away Bannister.   I suppose it&#039;s payback for the Mets getting David Cone for next to nothing before the 1988 season.  Hopefully Bannister will have similar successes and never &quot;allegedly&quot; expose himself to fans during a game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Mets fan I can&#8217;t believe that I neglected to mention the Mets essentially gave away Bannister.   I suppose it&#8217;s payback for the Mets getting David Cone for next to nothing before the 1988 season.  Hopefully Bannister will have similar successes and never &#8220;allegedly&#8221; expose himself to fans during a game.</p>
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		<title>By: tmoto</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11599</link>
		<dc:creator>tmoto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11599</guid>
		<description>Joe, love the site and referred by Aaron Gleeman...  

On the issue of why more &quot;baseball people&quot; don&#039;t seem to embrace statistics... I believe it comes down somewhat to Art versus Science.  I honestly believe most all of these guys came up either in the scouting area or had stints where player evaluation was important in their baseball role.  And, I believe that most of these guys felt like they could watch a player bat, field, or pitch a few times and then assess their ability.  I think they feel that boiling it down to statistics truly cheapens their player evaluation talents since most people will come down to the same conclusions if they are only looking at statistics.  

I just wish these guys would balance their subjective opinions/evaluations with objective (statistics) findings...  FWIW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, love the site and referred by Aaron Gleeman&#8230;  </p>
<p>On the issue of why more &#8220;baseball people&#8221; don&#8217;t seem to embrace statistics&#8230; I believe it comes down somewhat to Art versus Science.  I honestly believe most all of these guys came up either in the scouting area or had stints where player evaluation was important in their baseball role.  And, I believe that most of these guys felt like they could watch a player bat, field, or pitch a few times and then assess their ability.  I think they feel that boiling it down to statistics truly cheapens their player evaluation talents since most people will come down to the same conclusions if they are only looking at statistics.  </p>
<p>I just wish these guys would balance their subjective opinions/evaluations with objective (statistics) findings&#8230;  FWIW</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11595</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11595</guid>
		<description>Banny&#039;s starts are must watch for me on mlb.tv. I am pulling for the guy. I think part of what makes him so likeable is that he has to work for his success. He does not have the power arm, is on a team that gets national coverage, and he admits all of these things. He is humble. We relate to him. We think, &quot;If I was a pitcher, that is how I would pitch.&quot; Those of us that day-dreamed about being a player, or still do, can see a bit of ourselves in Banny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Banny&#8217;s starts are must watch for me on mlb.tv. I am pulling for the guy. I think part of what makes him so likeable is that he has to work for his success. He does not have the power arm, is on a team that gets national coverage, and he admits all of these things. He is humble. We relate to him. We think, &#8220;If I was a pitcher, that is how I would pitch.&#8221; Those of us that day-dreamed about being a player, or still do, can see a bit of ourselves in Banny.</p>
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		<title>By: Mean Dean</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11594</link>
		<dc:creator>Mean Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11594</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If Iâ€™m Khalil Greene and Iâ€™m sitting in an arb hearing, Iâ€™d damn well better hear my agent talking about my EqA/VORP/OPS+ rather than my raw AVG/HR/RBI.&lt;/i&gt;Bill James, who has been involved in a bunch of arbitration hearings, said that you simply can&#039;t do this type of stuff.  There isn&#039;t nearly enough time available in a hearing to explain the newfangled stats to the arbitrator.  Plus the arbitrator, being a &quot;professional skeptic,&quot; would tend to assume that any stat that isn&#039;t generally accepted is probably being cherry-picked by you to serve your own purpose.

&lt;i&gt;But, at the same time hitters seem to get a pass on strikeouts. It doesnâ€™t matter that Adam Dunn strikesout a lot for example.&lt;/i&gt;It does matter, in the sense that it depresses his BA -- how is he gonna hit .300 overall, when 200 of his  at-bats don&#039;t put a ball into play at all?  (Only Ryan Howard can do that.)  But since the hitter&#039;s BABIP regresses to the mean much less strongly, there is less reason to think that a player who puts up a higher or lower BABIP than average is necessarily going to stop doing that.  (It still can be expected sometimes -- e.g., if a slow guy puts up a .350 BABIP, or a fast guy puts up a .390 -- but it&#039;s a much less dramatic thing.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If Iâ€™m Khalil Greene and Iâ€™m sitting in an arb hearing, Iâ€™d damn well better hear my agent talking about my EqA/VORP/OPS+ rather than my raw AVG/HR/RBI.</i>Bill James, who has been involved in a bunch of arbitration hearings, said that you simply can&#8217;t do this type of stuff.  There isn&#8217;t nearly enough time available in a hearing to explain the newfangled stats to the arbitrator.  Plus the arbitrator, being a &#8220;professional skeptic,&#8221; would tend to assume that any stat that isn&#8217;t generally accepted is probably being cherry-picked by you to serve your own purpose.</p>
<p><i>But, at the same time hitters seem to get a pass on strikeouts. It doesnâ€™t matter that Adam Dunn strikesout a lot for example.</i>It does matter, in the sense that it depresses his BA &#8212; how is he gonna hit .300 overall, when 200 of his  at-bats don&#8217;t put a ball into play at all?  (Only Ryan Howard can do that.)  But since the hitter&#8217;s BABIP regresses to the mean much less strongly, there is less reason to think that a player who puts up a higher or lower BABIP than average is necessarily going to stop doing that.  (It still can be expected sometimes &#8212; e.g., if a slow guy puts up a .350 BABIP, or a fast guy puts up a .390 &#8212; but it&#8217;s a much less dramatic thing.)</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11592</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/02/banny-log-40208/#comment-11592</guid>
		<description>As a Mets fan, I was pretty annoyed at the time when the Mets traded Bannister away.  Of course he didn&#039;t have amazing stuff, but Banny was pretty unflappable on the mound from day one.  It seems that the biggest difference between successful veteran pitchers losing their stuff and hotshot young pitchers struggling with lightning stuff  is the ability to shrug off mistakes and bad breaks.  Bannister pitched more like that veteran from day one and it made him really easy to root for.   I continue to root for him in KC as I wait for Ambiorix Burgos to figure out half of what makes Bannister successful.  I won&#039;t hold my breath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Mets fan, I was pretty annoyed at the time when the Mets traded Bannister away.  Of course he didn&#8217;t have amazing stuff, but Banny was pretty unflappable on the mound from day one.  It seems that the biggest difference between successful veteran pitchers losing their stuff and hotshot young pitchers struggling with lightning stuff  is the ability to shrug off mistakes and bad breaks.  Bannister pitched more like that veteran from day one and it made him really easy to root for.   I continue to root for him in KC as I wait for Ambiorix Burgos to figure out half of what makes Bannister successful.  I won&#8217;t hold my breath.</p>
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