Comments on: WB: Clemente vs. Kaline

By: Trevor Garner

Trevor Garner — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:09:17 +0000

What an interesting question ‘Clemente or Kaline’.
I’m old enough to have seen them both play, and I’m not fron PA or MI, so this is a completely non hometown biased opinion.

Hitting: weigh the stats and it’s a toss up. In pressure situations both were very dangerous and excellent in the clutch- DRAW

Baserunning: both were quite fast, Clemente stayed quicker longer, Kaline was a very smart baserunner and a great slider DRAW

Throwing Arm: Stengel, Crosetti, Berra, Brock, Horton, Minosa were all quoted as saying he had the best outfielder arm in the history of the game. Clemente had a gun and was remembered for a famous throw to 3rd base in a world series game. Clemente sure could throw, but he is not a top 5 in outfielders arms ( that goes to Kaline, Barfield, Furillo, Callison and Evans) -Slight ADV Kaline

Glove Work: Kaline is the standard defensively as a right fielder. Clemente was not the same glove man Al kaline was. Substantial ADV Al Kaline

It’s not easy to compare the two, they had different styles. Nobody ran on him from 1955 to 1966. Then in 1967 they tried again because he was getting older, and with all the injuries etc, the base runners thought….well nows the time, and he gunned them down like he was shooting fish in a barrell. Clemente hit for a better average, Kaline was more productive. I have to give a slight edge to Kaline

By: Name abe goren

Name abe goren — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:59:06 +0000

81 years young ,a ball fan for 71 years and a NEW YORKER.
I want to talk about the great arms only. Here is my ranking in order.

Kaline
Callison
Furillo
Barfield
Ott
Colavito
Dawson
Clemente
Conigliaro
Suzuki
Evans
Maris
Buhner
Guerrero
Valentine
Aaron
Walker
Winfield
Higginson
Irish Meusel

By: Marv Landau

Marv Landau — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:39:04 +0000

I’m 81 years old, of sound mind and a huge ball fan. I’d love to share my thoughts on RC vs AK.
Hitting: both were no Mantle or a Mays. Kaline had a lovely swing and was a clutch and dangerous hitter. Clemente was a tremendous bad ball hitter and also delivered timely hits. Kaline had more power, Clemente hit for a higher average. Both did not have upper deck, tape measure power, but once every 3 or 4 years could launch one 440 feet plus. When you take productivity, batting average and clutchness into account, both were very dangerous hitters ( DRAW).
Baserunning: Both had above average wheels, Clemente’s helmet would fly off his head, Kaline was a very smart baserunner. Two different styles, same result. Both good on the basepaths(Draw)
Arm: I’m going to rank the post war throwing arms and I’m pretty set on my below picks
1) Kaline – a cannon with pinpoint accuracy. 10 on arms strength, 10 on accuracy
2) Carl Furillo – 10 arm strength, 10 accuracy ,a smidgeon below AK
3) Jesse Barfield – 10 arms strength. 9.5
accuracy
4) Rocky Colavito- 10 arms strength, 9.0 accuracy
5) Roberto Clemente – arm strength 9.8, accuracy about a 9.5
6) Johnny Callsion -9.9 arm strenth, about a 9.0 in accuracy
7) Dewey Evans- 9.8 arms strenth, about a 9.0 accuracy
Andre Dawson- 9.9 arms strength, about an 8.8 in accuracy
9) Roger Maris – 9.5 arm strength, 9.2 accuracy
10) Vlad – 9.5 arm strength, 8.7 accuracy

honorable mention: Jay Buhner, Hank Aaron, Dave Winfield, Ellis Valentine. Bobby Higginson, Dave Parker, Tony Conigliaro

Advantage: Kaline

Fielding: No contest
Advantage: Kaline

All in all, I gibve the edge to Al Kaline

By: jeff c

jeff c — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:31:53 +0000

Bob Costas even did a comparison of these 2. The fact is Kaline is and was the better player but Clemente had more flash. In today’s world he would be adored because flash sells. Kaline threw out runners at first from the outfield on 3 occasions. He was significantly more accurate then Clemente. Finally for all the talk and nonsense about Clemente’s speed guess who had significantly more stolen bases???? Kaline. Clemente is more legend and Kaline is reality so deal with it.

By: DJ

DJ — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:19:57 +0000

Finally, one last Kaline thought…

Kaline was compared to Cobb early in his career. In many ways, he was denigrated that he didn’t live up to the expectations vis-a-vis Cobb.

Here’s one where he does…

When Cobb was old, dying of cancer and other diseases, a reporter asked him how he would hit against ‘modern’ (1960) pitchers. “About .300″ was Cobb’s answer. When the reporter asked why so low, Cobb’s classic answer… “You’ve got to remember I’m 73 years old”

The Line is 74 years old now. He still looks good enough physically to field .986 and hit .287. Especially with expansion, the lowered mound and smaller strike zone. How many ex-ballplayers 20 years younger than him look not good enough to catch a bus, much less a sinking liner.

By: DJ

DJ — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:00:09 +0000

By: DJ

DJ — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:44:12 +0000

By: Howard

Howard — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:08:22 +0000

I remember when Al Kaline won the first Roberto Clemente Award, and thought that Roberto would be very happy about that.
As for comparisons made in the comments, I still see too many of the old falsehoods about Clemente. He was not a hypochondriac, he had back problems all his adult life as a result of a car accident on his way to his older brother’s death bed.
There was not a better defensive rightfielder – maybe some as good, and stats like errors were “awarded” by writers who openly despised the guy. David Maraniss’ bio of RC of a few years back details how writers actually conspired to screw him out of the 1960 MVP. He finished SIXTH behind even Don Houk when he was clearly the best Pirate that year and played that way down the pennant stretch when the winner, Dick Groat was out with a broken wrist.
How does anyone know who had the more accurate arm? People may have run on him more because he played in a superior league (because of the AL’s lack of black players) with superior speed. This is also an issue with when comparing the pitching of the time. There was a much higher level in the NL (Spahn, Koufax, Gibson, Marichal, Seaver, Bunning, Jenkins, Perry, Niekro, Drysdale, all Hall of Famers. A collection the AL could not match at the time.
His running speed was not wasted motion, he could fly. No player in the modern era, except Stan Musial had more triples.
He was a sight to watch play, but his style gave his substance a charisma without hurting it a bit – just like Willie Mays. He was no show off.
As you may have guessed, I grew up in Pittsburgh. And well before even most of the adults in the city “got” Roberto Clemente, Bob Prince and the kids did. Little Leagues coaches had to spend hours pleading with kids not to stick their butts out and their left legs “in the bucket” ala The Great One. The basket catch caused the same amount of frustration for those poor guys.
As for hagiography, few remember that he was consistently underrated until the ‘71 Series – playing in a small market, no cable clips every night of his play, and bigoted sportswriters who made no attempt to get past the language barrier and/or preconceived notions (again, check out the Maraniss biography).
Al Kaline? Great player. Great guy. No knocks.
I am not going to say anything bad about Mr. Kaline. No siree Bob. Just want to clear up the myths about Roberto.

By: Jimmy Stallard

Jimmy Stallard — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:57:14 +0000

I grew up as an avid Al Kaline fan. He certainly is in the top 100 players who ever played as Clemente is, too. A special book written about 1986 entitled Players Choice did a survey of former major league players to see who they thought were the bests players at their positions. Clemente was voted the # 1 defensive right fielder of all time and Kaline was voted # 2. Also, it was interesting that the survey revealed that major league ball players tended to view a player’s play in the field as a major component of his greatness, and not just his hitting. So it was interesting that Al Kaline was judged to be the better ball player than Frank Robinson who was a better power hitter, but not as good a fielder. Clemente was viewed as better as well. I thought this might be an interesting point to consider. Thanks for the blog. It was terrific and fair and balanced.

By: Neil Enright

Neil Enright — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:02:00 +0000

I’m from Chicago, started watching baseball way back in 1951. I saw them both play and after careful thought, I give the nod to Kaline. His arm was stronger than Clementes and more accurate. Nobody ran on his arm. He had a rocket of an arm and perfect throwing mechanics.I actually put him number 1 in throwing as a rightfielder. As a hitter they were equal. Defensively Al had him hands over fist. Best arms of right fielders that I’ve seen

1) Kaline
2) Barfield
3) Furillo
4) Reggie Smith
5) Vlad
6) Clemente
7) Valentine
Colavito
9) Evans
10)Buhner & Maris ( tie)