Comments on: I See See A Bright Future … http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/ A Rough Draft Blog Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:58:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ticket 4 SuperBowl http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11742 Ticket 4 SuperBowl Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:43:36 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11742 Nice message. I am sure you will like my diary.. See ya Nice message.
I am sure you will like my diary..
See ya

]]> By: Shawn http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11186 Shawn Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:27:05 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11186 Don't forget, Mr. White, that a lot of what Bob Feller did in the military was pitch. A lot of people forget that, while many of these guys were in the military, they were still playing ball. Fighter pilot Ted Williams was an exception. Oh, and to note, 300 innings in the low offense 1960s and 1970s was a lot different than the same number now would be. Fewer hits and fewer runs require far fewer pitches. Don’t forget, Mr. White, that a lot of what Bob Feller did in the military was pitch. A lot of people forget that, while many of these guys were in the military, they were still playing ball. Fighter pilot Ted Williams was an exception.

Oh, and to note, 300 innings in the low offense 1960s and 1970s was a lot different than the same number now would be. Fewer hits and fewer runs require far fewer pitches.

]]> By: Goetzo http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11160 Goetzo Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:26:07 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11160 I know how you feel, Joe. I realized I must be at least middle-aged this year when the Royals hired a manager that was younger than me. I know how you feel, Joe. I realized I must be at least middle-aged this year when the Royals hired a manager that was younger than me.

]]> By: ToyCannon http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11153 ToyCannon Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:44:16 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11153 Frank Tanana was allowed to throw over 600 professional innings before his 21st birthday. If anyone every slagged an arm it was the Angels. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Frank-Tanana.shtml He was the best young LHP pitcher I've ever seen. At this moment Clayton Kershaw is the closest thing I've seen to a 20 year old Tanana. http://www.sportshubla.com/2008/03/12/the-minotaur-is-unleashed-the-kershaw-express-is-born/ Frank Tanana was allowed to throw over 600 professional innings before his 21st birthday. If anyone every slagged an arm it was the Angels.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Frank-Tanana.shtml

He was the best young LHP pitcher I’ve ever seen. At this moment Clayton Kershaw is the closest thing I’ve seen to a 20 year old Tanana.

http://www.sportshubla.com/2008/03/12/the-minotaur-is-unleashed-the-kershaw-express-is-born/

]]> By: ajnrules http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11138 ajnrules Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:16:33 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11138 I saw the tidbit about Dwight Gooden, and I couldn't help but remember that back in 2005, Roger Clemens kept his ERA below 2.00 the ENTIRE SEASON. His ERA after his first start was 1.29, and never rose above 1.89, even after he started allowing 5+ runs per start. Of course, we all know he was high on HGH at the time. XD I saw the tidbit about Dwight Gooden, and I couldn’t help but remember that back in 2005, Roger Clemens kept his ERA below 2.00 the ENTIRE SEASON. His ERA after his first start was 1.29, and never rose above 1.89, even after he started allowing 5+ runs per start. Of course, we all know he was high on HGH at the time. XD

]]> By: yg bluig http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11134 yg bluig Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:43:03 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11134 If Feller gets an * for WWII, Dizzy Dean gets one for the 1937 all-star game. That's where he broke his big toes on a come-backer. He came back too soon, changed his delivery and blew out his shoulder. Interesting list, though. Maybe in this day and age, it's unrealistic to expect guys who are on pitch counts at every level from HS to through the minors to go 120 pitches + at the majors. If Feller gets an * for WWII, Dizzy Dean gets one for the 1937 all-star game.
That’s where he broke his big toes on a come-backer. He came back too soon, changed his delivery and blew out his shoulder.

Interesting list, though.
Maybe in this day and age, it’s unrealistic to expect guys who are on pitch counts at every level from HS to through the minors to go 120 pitches + at the majors.

]]> By: more anchovies http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11132 more anchovies Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:10:49 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11132 I saw Jim Palmer win two games against the Royals in one day. Spring of 1970. I saw Jim Palmer win two games against the Royals in one day. Spring of 1970.

]]> By: Jacob http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11128 Jacob Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:14:53 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11128 Well, part of that was that Zambrano wasn't as far along mentally/emotionally as Prior and Wood. He had so many famous meltdowns on the mound. He'd get a bad call, an error, a couple of duck-snorts, and then the wheels came off. Ironically, the fact that he lost his mind a few too many times might have prevented him from losing his arm... Well, part of that was that Zambrano wasn’t as far along mentally/emotionally as Prior and Wood. He had so many famous meltdowns on the mound. He’d get a bad call, an error, a couple of duck-snorts, and then the wheels came off. Ironically, the fact that he lost his mind a few too many times might have prevented him from losing his arm…

]]> By: Creston http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11123 Creston Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:33:23 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11123 I wish I could edit a post. Zambrano threw 6 120+ outings, I failed to scroll down far enough. He threw 120 on August 7, 121 on August 12th and 129 on Sept 14th. He did have quite a lot of 118s and 119s in the final two months as well, so Dusty rode him pretty dang hard too, though I still say Prior and Wood got ridden harder. I think Zambrano's just been lucky. I wish I could edit a post.

Zambrano threw 6 120+ outings, I failed to scroll down far enough. He threw 120 on August 7, 121 on August 12th and 129 on Sept 14th.

He did have quite a lot of 118s and 119s in the final two months as well, so Dusty rode him pretty dang hard too, though I still say Prior and Wood got ridden harder.

I think Zambrano’s just been lucky.

]]> By: Creston http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11122 Creston Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:28:23 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/25/i-see-see-a-bright-future/#comment-11122 "I think this is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. " Oh, one of those. I make those all the time myself... :o "Carlos Zambrano: has pitched well since 2003" He also in no way had the same workload that both Prior and Wood had. Zambrano threw 123 pitches on April 22nd, and 121 pitches on April 27th. He then threw 123 pitches on June 22nd, and that's it. Most of his other games, he pitched anywhere between 90-110 pitches. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=zambrca01&t=p&year=2003 How this compares to Wood's 13 times 120+ pitches is beyond me. What's the latin word for that? "Ergo In No Way Related Hoc?" :P "Kerry Wood: Suffered chronic injuries both before and well after 2003, with or without Dusty." So if you're a manager, and you have a guy that's already been injured several times, here's what you do : You ride that guy to death! Isn't that what every manager would do? Heck yeah! How is this not Dusty's fault? Dusty figured "Well, Wood's been injured once already, so I can just kill him and nobody will blame me, since it's obviously nothing to do with me!" I'm not really sure I see the logic here. "Mark Prior: Shoulder injury in 2003 after colliding with Brian Giles — not Dusty’s fault. Achilles tendon injury 2004 Slight elbow strain 2005 Comeback line drive off elbow by Brad Hawpe 2005 Strained shoulder 2006." Agreed that Prior has been unlucky with some of his injuries. But, since 2003 he's been having MAJOR throwing problems in spring training, to the point where he consistently was going to start opening season on the DL. Now, some of the things he was put on the DL for were different, but his arm/elbow/shoulder have been spaghetti since 2003. I'm not going to go through the bother of trying to find all these old spring training articles, but this isn't just some fairy tale made up by Dusty Haters. Mark Prior has had consistent arm problems since Dusty rode him to death in 2003. Sorry. “I think this is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. ”

Oh, one of those. I make those all the time myself… :o

“Carlos Zambrano: has pitched well since 2003″

He also in no way had the same workload that both Prior and Wood had.
Zambrano threw 123 pitches on April 22nd, and 121 pitches on April 27th. He then threw 123 pitches on June 22nd, and that’s it. Most of his other games, he pitched anywhere between 90-110 pitches.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=zambrca01&t=p&year=2003

How this compares to Wood’s 13 times 120+ pitches is beyond me.

What’s the latin word for that? “Ergo In No Way Related Hoc?” :P

“Kerry Wood: Suffered chronic injuries both before and well after 2003, with or without Dusty.”

So if you’re a manager, and you have a guy that’s already been injured several times, here’s what you do : You ride that guy to death! Isn’t that what every manager would do? Heck yeah!

How is this not Dusty’s fault? Dusty figured “Well, Wood’s been injured once already, so I can just kill him and nobody will blame me, since it’s obviously nothing to do with me!”

I’m not really sure I see the logic here.

“Mark Prior:
Shoulder injury in 2003 after colliding with Brian Giles — not Dusty’s fault.
Achilles tendon injury 2004
Slight elbow strain 2005
Comeback line drive off elbow by Brad Hawpe 2005
Strained shoulder 2006.”

Agreed that Prior has been unlucky with some of his injuries. But, since 2003 he’s been having MAJOR throwing problems in spring training, to the point where he consistently was going to start opening season on the DL. Now, some of the things he was put on the DL for were different, but his arm/elbow/shoulder have been spaghetti since 2003. I’m not going to go through the bother of trying to find all these old spring training articles, but this isn’t just some fairy tale made up by Dusty Haters. Mark Prior has had consistent arm problems since Dusty rode him to death in 2003.

Sorry.

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