Talking about stuff that makes my teeth hurt …
I’m sitting here in the New Orleans airport looking at this:
Ohio State is ranked fifth in the final AP poll.
Kansas is ranked seventh in the final AP poll.
I know that I’m missing something. I know it.
I mean, in the end, it doesn’t really matter, fifth, seventh, it’s all good, right? And yet, it’s like seeing a painting that’s hanging crooked on the wall … it’s driving me nuts. I keep going over this in my mind … I have to be missing something. I grew up a Buckeyes fan. I still get chills when I see the I dotted. I have a print in my house of two kids running around outside the Horseshoe. I’m not coming at this from an unbiased perspective here … I have Buckeyes in my blood.
And still, I have to be missing something.
Kansas finished the season 12-1.
Ohio State finished the season 11-2.
OK. Well …
Ohio State’s best win was at No. 18 Michigan … and a beat-up Michigan at that.
Kansas’ best win was over Virginia Tech, which was ranked third in America until the Jayhawks beat them.
OK. Well …
Ohio State’s first loss was at home to Illinois. At home. In front of 100,000 Buckeyes fans. At home. To a four-loss team. At home.
Ohio State’s second loss was when they got destroyed by LSU in the BCS game.
Kansas’ only loss was on a neutral field to Missouri, which finished fourth in the country.
OK. Well …
Kansas played a lousy non-conference schedule. A really lousy non-conference schedule. So that … oh, wait, Ohio State ALSO played a really lousy non-conference schedule. Oh.
OK. Well …
Ohio State played in the Big 10, which is a better conference than the Big 12. Except, of course, it isn’t. Not that bowls are the perfect judge, but the Big 12 had a 5-3 bowl record, including a BCS victory (by Kansas) and the Big 10 had a 3-5 bowl record, and two gigantic losses in its BCS games.
OK. Well …
Maybe the lesson is this: Not everything this world is supposed to make sense.
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47 Comments, Comment or Ping
Dan
Now these are good reasons to have a toothache.
Jan 8th, 2008
KD
Trying to figure out the logic of college football standings is like trying to find the logic in baseball hall of fame votes, oh wait.
Jan 8th, 2008
Jeff
You know, I’m a diehard Missouri fan, generally hate Kansas sports with every fiber of my being, and yet I completely agree with you. Kansas would have beaten OSU yesterday.
Jan 8th, 2008
Brent
This is the same skewed logic that got KU into the BCS bowl instead of Missouri…
College football is very broken. This is yet another example. They must fix the system…some way, some how.
Jan 8th, 2008
Ian
There are two problems with the final rankings.
1) West Virginia should be higher than Missouri. They humiliated the team that won the Big 12 and beat Mizzou twice. I’m not really sure where I would put them but it would be somewhere between 2 and 4. I can’t believe I’m saying this but they’re still not getting the respect they deserve.
2) I agree that Ohio State doesn’t deserve their ranking and should be behind both Oklahoma and Kansas. I’m of the opinion that Oklahoma should be in front of Kansas too. Oklahoma is only ranked below Kansas because they got punched in the mouth in their bowl game. Oklahoma played a much better team from a better conference (Big East 3-2 in bowl games vs. ACC 2-6). The ACC was terrible this year.
My top 10 would be:
1. LSU
2. Georgia
3. WVU
4. USC
5. Oklahoma
6. Mizzou
7. Kansas
8. Tennessee or Ohio State - this one’s a coin flip to me
9. Ohio State or Tennessee
10. Texas
Jan 8th, 2008
Ian
How would everyone else’s top 10 look?
Jan 8th, 2008
SBG
Yawn. Wake me up when there’s a playoff system.
Jan 8th, 2008
Keith
Ian, I think my top ten would be pretty much the same as yours. WVU should definitely be top 4, although I would think about flip flopping them with USC. Don’t watch a ton of college ball, so I’m not too familiar with Kansas and Mizzou.
Personally, I am still shocked Florida lost to Michigan.
Jan 8th, 2008
Paul White
“This is the same skewed logic that got KU into the BCS bowl instead of Missouri…”
Wrong.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Very, very wrong. Not just wrong-ish, or wrong-like, or having the appearance of wrong-itude, but utterly, completely, and abjectly wrong.
KU was NOT in a BCS bowl instead of Missouri.
ILLINOIS was in a BCS bowl instead of Missouri.
There are 5 BCS bowls, which means ten teams. KU was one of the top-10 teams this year. Illinois was not. The idiotic rule here is the one that limits each conference to a maximum of two teams in BCS. Either KU or MU was guaranteed of being screwed out of the bowl they deserved even before they played each other. (Not that it would have mattered since the stinking Rose Bowl was determined to pick a Big 10 team whether they deserved it or not.)
Jan 8th, 2008
Chris
The old sportswriters who vote on the AP probably didn’t realize Kansas had a football team until this season. They may not have a tool that allows them to put a school like Kansas ahead of a school like Ohio St. in a football poll. What a joke. Did Notre Dame end up in the top-25?
Jan 8th, 2008
D.B. Cooper
“Destroyed”?
Jan 8th, 2008
bulb
My Top 10
LSU
UGA
USC
WVU
Mizzou
KU
OSU
TX
VaTech
Back to baseball. Congrats to the Goose, HoFer.
Jan 8th, 2008
Paul White
I love the mystery of bulb’s top-10. Did he intentionally list only nine, just to tease us? Was it supposed to be symbolic of the mythical team that kept rising and falling in the polls all year? Where would that mythical team land? Is the blank spot #10, or #1, or somewhere in between? It’s mystifying, frustrating and fascinating all at once!
Jan 8th, 2008
Matt in Toledo
If you ran a sport, wouldn’t it be a nightmare that seemingly 90% of discussion about your sport focuses on the ranking system and the means for determining your champion rather than the games and the play on the field?
I don’t watch college football, but it seems like much more of the national conversation about that sport focuses on the rankings rather than the games themselves. Maybe I’m naive and they are happy a national conversation exists, even if it is mostly “These guys are freaking idiots.”
Jan 8th, 2008
Chris
Let me ask you this…if this were, say 1990, and I made a case for this team, where would you rank them…
This team finished the season with one loss. That loss came against a team that was vaulted to #1 based on that win. This team ranked in the top 10 in the nation in scoring offense. They also lead the nation in turnover margin. They were the only team entering their bowl game with one loss that actually won said bowl game. So where does this team rank after winning a New Years Bowl Game against the unanimous champ of another power conference?
Exactly.
Now, the following is not my Top 10, but here is the case against the final rankings:
1-LSU: Lost twice in OT to conference opponents Kentucky and Arkansas; neither of which sniffed a BCS bowl this season.
2-Georgia: Demolished by Tennessee. Did not make Conference Championship game.
3-USC: Lost to Stanford… at home
4-Missouri: The team that beat Kansas. Had a fine record, but couldn’t solve Oklahoma, losing to them twice…the same Oklahoma that was trounced by West Virginia.
5-Ohio State: Zero: Number of wins vs. Top 10 teams. Actually only played one Top 10 team…and lost handily to them. Their best win of the season was at Michigan, which was also Appalachian State’s best win. (Thanks for pointing that out this morning, Joe)
6-West Virginia: Did a fine job beating Oklahoma, but lost to Pittsburg… at home .
Tell me, are any of these teams better than Kansas?? Isn’t that what the Bowl Games are supposed to figure out?? Four teams got at least one #1 vote by AP voters in the final rankings; the first time since 1977. Those four teams were LSU, Georgia, USC…and Kansas . If what people say is true, if they don’t want a playoff because, “the regular season is a playoff.” Then what is the reward?
Jan 8th, 2008
Andrew H
I have to disagree with Paul and his rant about KU/MU/Illinois that started out:
“Wrong, wrong, wrong. ”
Look, the system that included only taking 1 at-large team from each conference was already in place when the BCS bowls made their choices. I don’t think a reasonable person, picking teams only based on results at that time could make a case for taking Kansas ahead of Missouri.
After the fact, both teams proved in winning their bowl games that they were not ‘flukes’. I feel confident in saying that both were among the Top 8 teams in the country. Beyond that, I couldn’t say where each truly deserved to be ranked. My ballot would’ve looked like this:
1) LSU
Ohio St
2) USC
3) Georgia
4) West Virginia
5) Oklahoma
6) Missouri
7) Kansas
9) Tennessee
10) Texas
I can’t rank MU ahead of OU because of their 2 wins over MU and I can’t rank KU ahead of MU for the same basic reason. Neutral field wins late in the season are as good of evidence as we can have in this sport.
Jan 8th, 2008
Ian
Chris,
It doesn’t matter what year it is, the team you’re trying to justify (KU) would be in the same spot they are now. It’s a pretty big deal that they only have one quality win all season. VT is the only decent team they beat all year and that win doesn’t look that impressive when you consider the ACC was absolutely terrible during bowl season.
KU’s schedule is only slightly better than Hawaii so why aren’t you defending them?
Jan 8th, 2008
Paul White
That’s one way to look at it, Andrew. Another is to note that the Rose Bowl picked Illinois over BOTH Missouri and Kansas, when it’s patently obvious they weren’t better than either. If the system actually made sense, the Rose Bowl would have picked MU, and the Orange Bowl would have had the freedom to pick KU if they were the next best team, which they clearly were.
Jan 8th, 2008
Josh
It had to be either Kansas or Missouri because by rule no conference can have 3 teams in BCS Bowl Games…. since Oklahoma won the conference they were automatically in… thus only one more team could go from the Big 12…
Jan 8th, 2008
Kyle
I for one, am glad the Rose Bowl picked Illinois (and not just cause I’m a USC alum). I appreciate the Pac-10/Big 10 tradition in The Granddaddy of Them All.
BTW, Boy do I miss Keith Jackson calling west coast games. Kirk Herbstreet amuses me, but I can do without Brent Musberger and his faux texas accent.
But I digress, since there is no real playoff, I like that a team like Illinois got a shot to play with the big boys. Same way I’m happy for Hawaii to get a shot at the big time, despite being smacked by the reality of a very *very* good Georgia defense.
(Very sad to see June Jones leave Hawaii. I was in the islands at the time, and it was the biggest news story in the state. Warrior football had united the state like few things I’ve seen in my life. Noone really blames June for leaving for bigger money, more resources and easier recruiting, but there certainly was a statewide call from the fanbase pleading for June to stay.)
Back to the topic at hand….uhm, I guess that was all I had to say. I’m just happy that other teams get a shot at the big time of a big bowl game. If there were a real playoff and Illinois took a shot away from Mizzou, that’s one thing, but with the convoluted B (c) S that what do we have, why the heck not?
This post seems to short though for Joe’s blog though, so I’ll just hum/sing the USC fight song for a bit, to stretch it out.
Da daaa, da-da da-daaa! Da-da da-daaa, da da-da-daaa! Da-daaa da-da-da-daaa, da-da-da daaa, da-da da-da, duh da-DA! Da-da da da-da-daaa!. Fight on, for old SC! Our teams fight on, to victory! Our alma mater dear, it’s up to you, fight on and win, for old SC! Fight on, to victory! Da daaa, da-da da-daaa! Da-da da-daaa, da da-da-daaa! Da-daaa da-da-da-daaa, da-da-da daaa, da-da da-da, duh da-DA! Da-da da da-da-daaa!.
That’s long enough.
Jan 8th, 2008
Jeff -.
So Kyle, was tradition worth watching that joke of a rose bowl? USC vs Mizzou/Kansas/Georgia would have been a far better game.
Jan 8th, 2008
Mauichuck
Ouch! The mere mention of June Jones leaving has all the islands lo-lo! If only Coach Jones could be more like Greg Schiano at Rutgers - willing to forgo the promise of more money and less aloha to built a legacy back on the aina. Oh well, June’ll be sweatin’ his ass off in July wishin’ he was back on the Manoa campus chillin’ with the wahines soon enough.
Jan 8th, 2008
Rep. Kucinich
Speaking of things not making sense….why didn’t I do better in Iowa! Huh? I poured my heart and soul into that state and yet Zelnorm and Plavix let me down. How did I finish below “uncommitted”? My alien friends promised me this campaign would be different then my 2004 results. Well, I’m in NH right now giving it my all. I drove for two days in my bean curd powered VW Van to get from Iowa to New Hampshire. I’m desperately fighting evil capitalism and cronynism that has run amok. I even had Vigo Mortensen campaign for me the other day. I announced a lawsuit (with Willie Nelson by my side) against the Texas Democratic party for making me sign a loyalty oath. I told every voter in NH that once elected I’d create a Department of Peace and would provide each and every one of them with a $1,000 debit card for them to use on vegan products at Whole Foods. I even got the endorsement of the New Hampshire Star Trek Society. So, why is this not enough?
Well, I perhaps sound down and depressed, but believe me, I’m still plugging. Thanks for letting me use this site to hide from the Patriot Act and still express my emotions and beliefs. One day we’ll have a true socialist utopia complete with free Ben and Jerry’s for everyone. Until then, VOTE FOR ME!!! VEGAN POWER!!!
Jan 8th, 2008
Chris
Ian,
I believe it does matter what year it is. I only mentioned 1990 becaus it was in the pre-BCS era. Now in that era, the bowls would have been a little bit different, but if OSU was beaten that badly by LSU in just another New Years Bowl, and not the “BCS Championship Spectacular” there is no way that OSU gets ranked ahead of KU. Two loss teams did not win National Championships pre-BCS. Had all of the bowl games been equal, as they were in the past, KU would have been ranked higher than seventh.
Jan 8th, 2008
Ian
Chris,
I see that you’re just stating that, in the former bowl, system KU would be more highly ranked than they currently are. I agree that in 1990 that probably would have happened. I originally thought that you were implying that KU would be national champs if it were 1990. My bad.
Jan 8th, 2008
Bob
The Sagarin rankings are not media biased into loving OSU, USC, or the SEC. KU finishes #2 in both overall rankings and when eliminating margin of victory. Like his basketball rankings over the RPI, these are much more reliable when determining head to head match-ups. Not to say that KU is necessarily #2, but #7 ain’t right. Is Va Tech suddenly chopped liver? They had the top SOS in the country.
Jan 8th, 2008
Rick
Umm…to those comparing KU to Hawaii please realize that KU’s final SOS ranking was 60. Hawaii’s final SOS ranking was 110! I’d say 50 spots is a more than “slightly better”.
One last note on SOS, USC’s final SOS ranking was 64, four spots behind KU! Where’s all the complaining about their schedule?
Jan 8th, 2008
MonkeyHawk
I hate getting too deep into “what-ifs,” but the KU-MU game I was watching showed a Kansas team coming back. Okay, the Tiggers may have started celebrating early and eased off a little, but one of the aspects of Mangino’s team all season was how well they seemed to make adjustments at halftime and later in the game and prevail.
Despite the non-conference schedule against the Little Sisters of the Poor and the Indiana School for the Blind, the cupcakeness of Kansas’ schedule wasn’t *that* bad until KU beat ‘em. K-State was, at the time, considered to be pretty good and people were wondering if the ‘Hawks could win on the road. Nebraska wasn’t Nebraska anymore but no one but Kansas hung 76 points on them. I can’t for the life of me understand why VaTech didn’t run Orr more in the second half; perhaps the Kansas defense adjusted and the opportunities weren’t there anymore.
I think Ohio State got grandfathered into the Top Ten; like it’s a law or something that a Big 10 (the league with eleven teams; can’t they even connt?) team *has* to be ranked. I bleed Crimson & Blue, but I was really disappointed that Mizzou had two shots at Oklahoma and couldn’t solve them. Something tells me the Tiggers wouldn’t want to face Kansas again. But there I go again, with the “what-ifs.”
USC has tremendous individual talent, but the real accomplishment of Mark Mangino is how he molded a bunch of second-tier recruits into a *team* that was greater than the sum of its parts.
We’re seeing something special in Kansas; transcendent, even. We’ll have to wait nine months to see if the Jayhawks can continue their success without sneaking up on people. But as long as the cupcake non-conference schedule keeps giving people an excuse to diminish Mangino’s achievements, I’ll enjoy it.
Jan 8th, 2008
Mike Bagnall
There is no need to “decide” a national champion in college football. There never has been and never will be. Just play the regular season and let us all argue about who is best, just like God intended. Letting college teams play each other twice in the same season is a horrible mistake. They’ll often split, and where does that leave you? Heck, I remember a season (don’t recall what year it was, though) when the Eagles went to Dallas and TROUNCED the Cowboys by a margin of 35-40 points and the Cowboys returned the favor in Philadelphia a couple of weeks later by almost the exact same margin. Those guys are full-grown and should know how to play the game, for heaven’s sake. College students are still children and likely to be affected by their emotions.
Jan 8th, 2008
Kyle
Jeff, yes, I think USC vs Georgia/Kansas/Missouri would have been a better game (SC still would have won
), but that doesn’t mean I can’t be happy that an upstart team like Illinois gets its shot at a Big Game.
Mauichuck, I’m sure the ~2 Mil/yr he’s getting from SMU will mean he can afford central air conditioning. I harbor no ill will to June. Most disappointing is that it distracts from what a fantastic season the Warriors had.
Mike Bagnall - I’m sort of on board with you. I liked it better in the old system where it didn’t pretend to solve anything. Unless a real playoff system is devised (and there is no credible reason why it can’t be), I’d much rather go back to the days where the national championships were handed out to whoever felt like giving one out.
Jan 9th, 2008
Jeff P.
All Illinois proved was that they didn’t belong there. Its rididculous that a three loss team ranked 13th was in a bcs bowl while the two loss #6 team wasnt. And oh yeah Mizzou just happened to have beat Illinois this year. I’d argue the two teams per conference rule is antiquated but if they didn’t have it then all the at large bids would go to sec teams. The rose bowl/pac 10/big 10 are really holding back progress is college football.
Jan 9th, 2008
Josh
It seems to me to be a matter of perspective….. there is a 2 team per conference rule for the “BCS Bowls”, but are they really the most important bowl games (Besides of course the “Championship” Game)? The Capitalone Bowl had a higher payout to the participating teams than did 2 BCS Bowls games (Orange and Rose I believe) and the Cotton Bowl is widely considered to be an equal to the BCS Bowls (and is petitioning to become one)…. so to me at least if the #6 and #20 teams are playing the Cotton Bowl and the #7 and #13 teams are playing the Rose Bowl there really isn’t much difference….
Jan 9th, 2008
Larry I. in L.A.
I’ve always felt that the SOS component should actually be *de-emphasized* in the rankings, especially when talking about the so-called “power” conferences. If a team is playing the lion’s share of its games against schools with 70,000-seat stadiums and multi-million-dollar football budgets, I’m satisfied that they’re not really ducking anybody.
The bulk of a college football schedule consists of traditional league opponents and non-conference games scheduled years in advance. Why should Kansas suffer because perennial powerhouse Nebraska is enduring a down cycle? And even though they thoroughly sucked this year, can you really call Notre Dame a creampuff opponent on SC’s schedule?
Jan 9th, 2008
Ben
Larry I. in L.A. - Uh, yes you can call Notre Dame a creampuff opponent this year because the did, as you said, suck. You’re falling into the same trap all of us are talking about - the *name* of Ohio State is what ranked them as high as what they were, but it does not mean they are good. Yes, Nebraska is a great *name* but it doesn’t mean they were good this season, which is the whole point of KU detractors.
Put it this way, even if there was a playoff and Kansas was in it and won it, KU would still not be considered the best team. Would they be champions? Yes. But if they did a poll and ranked everyone, KU would not be number one based on how good their team was. But everyone would be OK with KU being called a national champion because they would have had to have been consistently good against the best to earn their title.
I think we are all getting worked up on something that has no merit. If we are truly pissed off about this stuff, then we should all stop watching college football. Then the Presidents will get the point.
Jan 9th, 2008
Clayton
I don’t know shit about college football, or care particularly, but as an LSU alumni who once lived in room 420 of North Stadium I assure you that the results are well deserved. WE’RE NUMBER ONE, RIGHTEOUSHLY!, everone else sucks.
During my day (1980-85, I was in no hurry for my four year degree) LSU got our asses kicked every year by Alabama and any other major school on the schedule. The Dalton-James Gang was hyped but ineffective. but the old coonass guys (Cajun, pc) would pull up in the parking lot around Wednesday, full of incredible chili and bourbon and stories and good times…those guys deserve national championships more than any players ever would. Even David Wickersham, who returned us towards respectability, if not decency.
Eventually we managed to do something, and to celebrate there was the infamous Orange Bowl game where we beat some clod Florida team like 55-0 so we could go to the Orange Bowl, and the refs gave the fans so many penalties for throwing oranges that we were kicking off from the goal line, and then granting 20 yards, and it was all good. The coach came raving out imploring the orange throwing to stop, and he took at least 20 in the first 12 seconds of the failed plea. I hadn’t even planned on going to that game, but I got stoned and someone convinced me. That was good, too.
I guess they’re better now, but I don’t know if anything could be so fun. I’ve never been so proud to be an LSU student/alumni…whatever, it all gets so blurry beneath that moment where I could look up to the sky and the entire thing was covered by flying oranges.
Jan 9th, 2008
KD
well Clayton, since you “don’t know shit about college football”, you should definitely give your two cents on a subject you don’t know anything about.
Righteously.
Jan 9th, 2008
Clayton
ah KID, why’d ya give two cents when you obviously don’t have two cents to give?!
Jan 9th, 2008
RCJHGKU
I think it is funny that since Kansas put up 76 on Nebraska that they are a creampuff. Yet no one mentions that Nebraska is also USC’s best nonconference win.
I’ve seen both multiple times, is there really that much difference between Nebraska and Central Michigan this year?
And seriously how can people continually compare KU’s schedule to Hawaii’s? Look at all the SOS ratings, the KU schedule is rated very similarly to Ohio State, not Hawaii. Do these people just believe everything they hear?
Jan 9th, 2008
Ian
I really didn’t expect to find much argument about KU’s schedule. Maybe it was the way that I went about making my argument. The person above that asked why USC’s schedule wasn’t as criticized brought up a good point. First let’s get the numbers out there. There are 119 teams playing division 1A football. The following are the strength of schedule ranking of each BCS team as well as their cumulative opponents record and the cumulative winning percentage of all opponents.
2. Virginia Tech - 91-55 (62.3)
6. Illinois - 81-53 (60.4
7. Georgia - 79-52 (60.3)
14. LSU - 91-63 (59.1)
22. Oklahoma - 90-67 (57.3)
34. WVU - 79-63 (55.6)
38. OSU - 74-60 (55.2)
72. KU - 65-67 (49.2)
73. USC - 71-75 (48.6)
111. Hawaii - 49-69 (41.5)
So now we can establish that Hawaii’s schedule was absolutely atrocious. KU?and USC had pretty bad schedules too. The teams that they played couldn’t manage to win even half of their games. The difference here is that KU purposefully set out to get that bad schedule and USC got lucky/unlucky. However you want to look at it. USC scheduled Nebraska and Notre Dame on their non-con schedule but they just both happened to have bad years. KU, by contrast, scheduled only teams from second rate conferences that they knew had no shot at beating them.
The real question here is whether the NCAA way of ranking schedules is a decent one? I would say it’s not. I know I’m shooting my argument against KU in the foot here but bear with me. I would argue that the true test is at the end of the season when we get to see a conference’s bowl record. Here are the bowl records of all BCS conferences:
1. SEC - 7-2 (77.8%)
2. Pac-10 - 4-2 (66.7%)
3. Big 12 - 5-3 (62.5%)
4. Big East - 3-2 (60.0%)
5. Big Ten - 3-5 (37.5%)
6. ACC - 2-6 (25.0%)
Take the team strength of schedule and the conference strength in bowl games and you find out who actually had the tougher schedule.
1 & 2: For example, LSU and Georgia top out my list because their opponents have the best winning percentage and their conference had the best bowl record by far.
3. Next I have WVU for similar reasons. WVU is above OU because they beat them in the bowl game.
4. Next is a coin flip because OU and USC have different justifications for being 4th. I?chose USC because even though their SOS?isn’t as good the Pac-10 bowl record is better and OU got smacked in their bowl.
5. That puts OU fifth because they were the Big 12’s #1. and beat Mizzou. Of course we can’t say for sure but I?am of the belief that they would smack KU the same way Mizzou did.
6. Mizzou
7. KU because they lost to Mizzou and didn’t play anyone besides MU?and VT all year. All their opponents that played in bowls played only decent to average teams and still couldn’t do better than 2-2.
8. Ohio State is here because they played a pretty crappy schedule and came from a horrible conference. They are still 11-2 so that’s worth something.
9. I?choose Tennessee here because they have the #12 SOS and are from the strongest conference.
10. Texas is here because they are from a better conference, had a SOS in the top half of the NCAA and finished well. This one’s debatable though.
Jan 9th, 2008
Kyle
I wish people would stop crying about Hawaii’s strength of schedule, they *tried* to schedule games with Michigan and Michigan State, who both backed out. (Michigan chose instead to play Appalachian St–let that be a lesson to them–karma’s a bitch) Scheduling is a two way street, if teams won’t agree to play you, strength of schedule is largely out of your control.
Jan 9th, 2008
Creston
“Another is to note that the Rose Bowl picked Illinois over BOTH Missouri and Kansas”
Well ofcourse. The LAST thing they want is to get some decent opposition for USC. When USC plays in the Rose bowl, they always pick cupcakes for them to play.
OSU being ranked fifth is ridiculous. LSU would have won by 40 if they had bothered to keep playing in the second half. “number one ranked defense” doesn’t mean much when it was achieved against teams like Kent State and South Columbus Penitentiary Community College.
Jan 9th, 2008
KD
Sorry Clayton, guess I’m not old enough to tell a long, rambling story that proves I don’t know what I’m talking about and doesn’t actually pertain to anything being discussed.
Thanks for enlightening us.
Jan 9th, 2008
Kyle
“Well ofcourse. The LAST thing they want is to get some decent opposition for USC. When USC plays in the Rose bowl, they always pick cupcakes for them to play.”
This is patently ridiculous. If there is one thing you can be reasonably sure of, it’s that Bowls are there to make money. They don’t want a cupcake. They want a team that will bring fans. They want a story they can sell to the media. A team that won as many games as they had in the previous 3 years combined was that story.
This is not even mentioning how silly it is to make a claim that somehow the Rose Bowl has historically picked patsies for USC. USC has been in the Rose Bowl 4 of the last 5 years, lets look at it year by year:
2004: USC played Big-10 Champion Michigan as per the contractual obligations. IIRC, Michigan was ranked #4 in the nation.
2006: In what was perhaps one of the greated college football matchups ever, Vince Young tore out USC’s heart in a matchup of the #1 and #2 teams in the nation.
2007: Going into this game, there were many who said that USC’s opponent, Michigan, who finished second in the Big-10, was just as worthy of a title game apprearance as eventual champ Florida.
2008: At the time, the only team to beat Ohio State, Illinois was a media darling, a good story to sell, and it kept the traditional Pac-10/Big-10 matchup.
Missourri got screwed out of a bigger money bowl, we get it, but do at least a little research before spouting your conspiracie theories.
Jan 9th, 2008
Mike
Ian, I like your logic of trying to use conference bowl records and strength of schedule to determine a top ten, but I would posit that this isn’t entirely effective. For example, Colorado got picked to be in a bowl when it probably shouldn’t have. As such, the Big 12 ranking is lower than it perhaps should’ve been. This means that USC beats out OU for the fourth spot unfairly.
Jan 9th, 2008
John McCann
Trying to make sense of who beat who by how much and why is maybe a bit much for the human mind.
This is a cool site that compares and correlates all the computer rankings and I would take this top 10 over any other:
http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
Jan 9th, 2008
Ian
Mike, I’d counter with the fact that it’s also about the quantity of teams selected to go and how even your undeserving teams do. Alabama who played Colorado was pretty undeserving of a bowl as well. Some would have said that Auburn didn’t deserve to play as good a bowl as they did against Clemson, the ACC #2. Yet both still won.
Jan 9th, 2008
RCJHGKU
Ian,
You say that “KU, by contrast, scheduled only teams from second rate conferences that they knew had no shot at beating them.”
Do you honestly believe this? KU lost to Toledo last year. You really think they thought that same team had no shot at beating them? And many pundits picked Central Michigan to beat KU in the opening game of the year. Central Michigan won the MAC last year, you really think KU thought that was a sure win?
Come on. This is Kansas football. Prior to this year, nothing was ever considered a sure win. And the fact that you wrote that KU scheduled these teams because they knew they had no shot at beating them, just tells you how far Kansas football has come in 4 months.
Jan 10th, 2008
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