Mind you, I’d vote for Quiz as well. But I can see why some people would vote for Sutter and not Quiz.

I have always felt precisely the same way–it is odd that the decline years are the years that separate Hall of Famers from non-HOFers, more often than not. I never knew so clearly that this made me uncomfortable, but thank you Joe, like a good shrink, you have just brought my feelings to the surface.

So now I am embarassed that I did not post a Pozcar vote for Alan Trammell. Not only was he a great player–he was almost single-handedly responsible for my shared stratomatic title in the winter of 84-85. What was I thinking?

Albert Belle. However, Joey only shows up on strict stathead numbers, not totals, since he didn’t get started until he was 24, while Allen made first full season impact at 23.

Joey was actually done with the game when he was 33. Poor surly fellow.

First, you start off by saying that Guidry “never didn’t bring it” (perhaps you’re overlooking 1984 and his ERA+of 84 that year). You don’t mention that Guidry’s formative years were spent playing college ball and in the minors until 1977, except for two cups of coffee in 75 and 76. He was already 26 by then. Koufax, on the other hand, was signed as a bonus baby at 19 and had to learn by doing at the major league level, with little instruction (rookies were basically ignored back then, as he makes plain in his autobiography). By the time he was 26, he’d been in the majors for seven seasons and had already made an all star team after finally putting it together in 1961.

Second, Guidry’s best six years are actually not consecutive – they actually occurred over a nine year period from 77 to 85, with a few pretty good years and his stinker in 1984 mixed in. During this period, his ERA+’s were 140, 208, 146, 110, 129, 104, 113, 84, and 123; his best six in descending order were 208, 146, 140, 129, 123, and 113. Compare those to Koufax’s six year run, in descending order, of 190, 187, 160, 159, 141, and 123. Guidry is +18 better in their single best season, then Koufax blows him away the rest of the way – +41, +20, +30, +18, and +10.

There’s more. During his run, Koufax pitched 335.2, 323, 311, 255.2, 223, and 184.1 innings, for a total of 1632.1, and an average of 272 per season. Guidry, by comparison, had his best years of 273.2, 259, 250.1, 236.1, 222, and 219.2, a total of 1461 (171.1 fewer) and an average of 243, about 29 fewer. There is a substantial amount of value in what amounts to around 4 extra starts per year for a six year period.

Finally, let’s look at “Black” and “Grey” ink, not a terrible way to value their relative performance compared to their peers. While their Grey inks (top ten finishes) are close at 151 for Koufax to 140 for Guidry, Koufax blows him away again in Black inks (league leading finishes), 78 to 29. Koufax was by far more dominant compared to his peers than was Guidry. The comparison between the two is at best superficial, and they really are not that comparable at all – Koufax was simply a much better player.

I can’t justify Kofax, other than to say I wouldn’t have voted for him either. In my eyes he did not maintain it for a long enough period of time. Just like Belle and Allen.

Personality does have a small amount of weight for me, so all things being equal, I would take the “nice guy” over the “not so nice guy”. And to me there is a difference between “bashing” someone and deciding if he is Hall worthy or not. I bash Barry Bonds on a regular basis, but I ABSOLUTELY think he is a Hall of Famer. I will definately bash players I do not like, but when it comes down to Hall consideration it is basically a tie breaker for me. If Albert Belle were the nicest guy on the planet, I still wouldn’t think he would be a HoFer.