Comments on: Jim Rice, Murphy and the Hawk

By: Brent

Brent — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:59:33 +0000

Great post.

My “BK experience” was about 10 years ago I got stuck on a layover at the St. Louis airport. So, to kill the time, I went into a watering hole in the airport and ordered a Budweiser. They didn’t have Budweiser on tap. I was in St. Louis, and they didn’t have Bud on tap. I don’t even prefer Budweiser, but was stunned. St. Louis? Only Miller Lite available? whatever.

If it helps, I’d tend to rank them Dawson, Rice, Murphy. I think longevity has to account for something (this is what keeps guys with a couple of great years — like Brady Anderson and Brian Roberts — from getting into the Hall. Murphy was a great player, no doubt, but that average is horrid. Dawson was a phenomenal player for a long time — I’d likely vote him in, and not the other two…

By: Jim

Jim — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:07:37 +0000

Being a Red Sox fan of course I am partial to Rice. I clearly remeber him carrying that boy into the dugout. I also remeber him scooping up Jerry Remy once when he was injured on the field. His strength was absolutely impressive, and natural. His numbers may be borderline, but Murphy, Dawson and himself represent a time when baseball was not burdened by steroid allegations. Vote them all in.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:15:53 +0000

I was doing a weeklong fast from solid food for a week of prayer we were having at church. After the Sunday night service that closed it out, I went to Subway for a sandwich at about 7:15 p.m., and they were closed because they were out of bread. As if this wasn’t bad enough, there were two teenage workers in there having a food fight with the uncooked dough. I was not pleased.

By: Kevin

Kevin — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:43:37 +0000

I really like Burger King. Used to skip school there. Two double cheeseburgers for $2.

By: MannyT

MannyT — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:09:54 +0000

Something that I think need to be measure is the cost for the teams of these three players because the use of replacement players for the games they loss by injuries .
Dawson played 21 seasons but only 10 seasons of 140 games or more and never played a complete season.
Murphy was an ironman playing 12 seasons of 150 games or more including 9 years in a row where he played 1383 games of 1395 played by The Braves, an incredible streak. This lapse btw included his six prime years.
Rice was in the middle of the road, he played 10 seasons of more than 140 games including 7 seasons of 150 or more.
Probably this effort payback for Murphy and Rice and left Dawson plays 21 years.

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:39:19 +0000

I actually like Burger King better than McDonalds, although I like Wendy’s better than both.

I wrote a long article about Rice when he retired that made essentially the points Paul White made above, except making a direct comparison between Rice and Yaz, the successive Boston LF’s. Yaz’s last six years he hit about .275 with about 15 HR and 70 RBI. If Rice could have hung around to do that (and why would he need to be mediocre for six years to prove he was a great player), he would have ended up with 3,000 hits, 400 HR and 1500 RBI and he would have walked into the Hall (since at that time, Yaz was the first American Leaguer ever to have 3,000 hits and 400 HR together, these numbers were pretty significant). He didn’t, and the writers killed him in the voting for not hanging around. Yaz they loved, he made the numbers, had the Triple Crown and the 7 Gold Gloves, but many, many of his seasons were average at best. Rice was the most feared hitter in the A.L. for about 10 years and did some freakish things at the plate. Should be in the Hall. Great blog, by the way.

By: Atlanta Sports Fan

Atlanta Sports Fan — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:34:39 +0000

I had the good fortune of working for a professional sports team for a few years, and one of the perks was meeting athletes. Out of the hundreds of athletes I met, the nicest athlete (and it’s not even close), was Dale Murphy. Just a genuine good guy. Autographed a bat for me without me even asking when he realized how much I admired him. This fulfilled a childhood dream for me, as my number in baseball, basketball, and football youth leagues was “3,” after Murphy. He was, and will always be, my favorite athlete. Whether he belongs in the Hall of Fame, well…this is where I can see the argument for “So and so was a dominant player from this year to this year,” because Murphy WAS dominant in the early to mid 80s on utterly DEPLORABLE Braves teams.

Oh, and not sure if this tops some of the others (like Dunkin Donuts being out of coffee!), but there was a restaurant in Augusta (my hometown growing up, where you started out, Joe!) called “The Dizzy Chicken.” It was right next to a movie theater. After seeing a movie, my friend and I went there for dinner. We both ordered chicken fingers (their signature dish, of course) and got this reply from the waitress: “Sorry, we’re out of chicken.” After 7-10 seconds to think “WTF???” we got up and left. Unbelievable.

By: Glenn

Glenn — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:46:13 +0000

Thanks for the great post. It is mentioned in the article that Dale Murphy had an enormous impact on kids growing up in the South during his dominant seasons with the Braves. Well, thanks to Superstation WTBS, the influence of those early to mid-1980’s Braves teams extended well past the South, and all the way to my little hometown of 1500 people in rural North Dakota. I was 10 to 14 years old during Murphy’s hayday, and watched the Braves religiously, as the Twins were not on TV, and the only other option was the floundering Cubs on cable giant WGN. Murphy was the epitome of the perfect role model- he played hard, never complained, never swore at the umps, and was always a solid citizen. I could not have had a better sports-related role model than Dale Murphy.

Now that I’m in my mid-30’s, and have three young children of my own, I wonder who will be their sports idol? Will there be another Dale Murphy? I don’t think so. And that is why I would be ecstatic if Dale Murphy ever makes it into the Hall of Fame (although I’m not holding my breath). His greatness may have been fleeting, but it was true greatness in every sense, and that deserves recognition over prolonged pretty-good-but-not-quite-greatness (such as Winfield, Blyleven, ect…). If character counts, and impact on the game and on the fans who love the game counts, Murphy must be in the Hall of Fame.

By: Peter

Peter — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:42:56 +0000

Joe,

Outstanding blog. I love these types of debates, and the discussion of MVP or HOF entry is one of my favorites. I would love to see Blyleven get in (60 CG shutouts – are you kidding me!) and I like Rice, but I’m not sold on Murphy. But I’ll focus my debate on Andre Dawson. I think he was a dominant player for his time and is, to me, a clear HOFamer.

Let’s look first at his career. The only eligible players not in the Hall who have more hits than Andre’s 2771 are Rose and Harold Baines. Only Baines has more RBI than Dawson’s 1591 and is not in. He is #22 ALL-TIME in extra-base hits (the other 21 are Bonds, Griffey, Rose or are in the HOF already). The fact that he played in an era when offense was down (from 1976-1996 the NL BA .257, NL OBP .322) only makes those accomplishments greater.

Now let’s focus on his best years (1980-1983). He batted .302 (NL average was .257) and finished in the top 10 in the NL in 3 of those 4 years. His OBP was .349 (NL average .320). He finished top 3 in the NL in extra-base hits each year (1st twice) and top 3 in the NL in total bases in 1981, 1982 and 1983. He was top 2 in Power/Speed Number every year from 1978-1983. He also won a Gold Glove each year from 1980-1983. Simply put, he was a dominant player in his league for those years.

His career numbers put him in the conversation with current HOFamers, and his best years establish him as a dominant player compared to his peers for a string of years. If he plays anywhere other than Montreal for the first ELEVEN years of his career, he is better known by the public (and the media) and is placed in the context of other HOF players.

That’s just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening.

By: Frankie

Frankie — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:33:34 +0000

I can’t stand that BK commercial either, but it doesn’t change the fact that the whopper tastes like a real burger, while the Big Mac is a double helping of disgusting, flavorless grease patties. On more serious matters – you’re right that Bowie Kuhn does not belong in Cooperstown; it’s probably best if we could remember him as little as possible. But I don’t understand the outrage at the omission of Marvin Miller. The Hall of Fame has four categories of inductees: players, managers, umpires, and “executives & pioneers.” (The only “pioneer” who never held an official position in baseball was Henry Chadwick, a writer who helped develop the rules and first kept track of statistics.) Admittedly, Miller had a great impact on baseball. But he deserves an exhibit, not a placque. If we must induct a pioneer for players’ rights, let it be Curt Flood.