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	<title>Comments on: News on the march!</title>
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	<description>A Rough Draft Blog</description>
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		<title>By: John from north of Cincinnati</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1432</link>
		<dc:creator>John from north of Cincinnati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1432</guid>
		<description>Sure, Joe Torre had a mediocre managing career before the Yankees hired him.  So did Casey Stengel, and he had a rotten record after leaving the Yankees.   Earl Weaver&#039;s 1985 Orioles had a terrible record.  A manager can only be as good as his players.

Also, Torre was making more than $6 million, and then his next contract offer came up and the Yankees offered $5 million.  Yes, there were non-guaranteed incentives that might have jacked it up to $8 million.   It&#039;s still a cut in salary, and it&#039;s still a strong sign that they didn&#039;t want him around anymore.   He didn&#039;t need the Bronx Zoo anymore either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, Joe Torre had a mediocre managing career before the Yankees hired him.  So did Casey Stengel, and he had a rotten record after leaving the Yankees.   Earl Weaver&#8217;s 1985 Orioles had a terrible record.  A manager can only be as good as his players.</p>
<p>Also, Torre was making more than $6 million, and then his next contract offer came up and the Yankees offered $5 million.  Yes, there were non-guaranteed incentives that might have jacked it up to $8 million.   It&#8217;s still a cut in salary, and it&#8217;s still a strong sign that they didn&#8217;t want him around anymore.   He didn&#8217;t need the Bronx Zoo anymore either.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh (Not the Josh Above, a different Josh)</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1344</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh (Not the Josh Above, a different Josh)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1344</guid>
		<description>Joe,

I really think that Belichick gets a bit of a raw deal regarding the job he did in Cleveland.  It may be that you have other reasons to strongly dislike him but his performance was not the complete and total failure everybody likes to paint it as.

He took over a 3-13 team and completely rebuilt it (it did take three years) to the point where he went 11-5 with the number 1 defense in the league.  That 11-5 team won a home playoff game and then lost to the Steelers.  The next year he&#039;s 4 and 4 and Art Modell announces that the team is moving the next season.  They then go 1-11 over the last 3/4 of the season.  I don&#039;t think Vince Lombardi could&#039;ve gotten that team back on track with the reaction in Cleveland.

My question is - Why the dislike of Belichick?  Is there something besides performance or is it performance?  I didn&#039;t live through the Cleveland years as a Browns fan so I don&#039;t know what it was like then.

And I love the blog.  Nice long posts that contribute to the decline in workplace productivity.

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>I really think that Belichick gets a bit of a raw deal regarding the job he did in Cleveland.  It may be that you have other reasons to strongly dislike him but his performance was not the complete and total failure everybody likes to paint it as.</p>
<p>He took over a 3-13 team and completely rebuilt it (it did take three years) to the point where he went 11-5 with the number 1 defense in the league.  That 11-5 team won a home playoff game and then lost to the Steelers.  The next year he&#8217;s 4 and 4 and Art Modell announces that the team is moving the next season.  They then go 1-11 over the last 3/4 of the season.  I don&#8217;t think Vince Lombardi could&#8217;ve gotten that team back on track with the reaction in Cleveland.</p>
<p>My question is &#8211; Why the dislike of Belichick?  Is there something besides performance or is it performance?  I didn&#8217;t live through the Cleveland years as a Browns fan so I don&#8217;t know what it was like then.</p>
<p>And I love the blog.  Nice long posts that contribute to the decline in workplace productivity.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Melody</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1316</link>
		<dc:creator>Melody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1316</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve wondered about Pettitte, too... and Clemens.  They&#039;re both &quot;retiring&quot; this year.  As for signing a player who might  be mentioned in the report, there&#039;s no guarantee that any of these guys will be suspended, depending on the nature of the evidence against them and the time period during which they were supposed to have used PEDs.  Imagine a scenario in which someone states that he connected Schilling up with a PED source before they were explicitly banned, or in such a way that it couldn&#039;t be confirmed.  They can&#039;t suspend him (and to be fair, it might not even be true), but obviously it would make negotiations with the team much more complex.  I can see why they&#039;d want to get it over with before any allegations might be publicized...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve wondered about Pettitte, too&#8230; and Clemens.  They&#8217;re both &#8220;retiring&#8221; this year.  As for signing a player who might  be mentioned in the report, there&#8217;s no guarantee that any of these guys will be suspended, depending on the nature of the evidence against them and the time period during which they were supposed to have used PEDs.  Imagine a scenario in which someone states that he connected Schilling up with a PED source before they were explicitly banned, or in such a way that it couldn&#8217;t be confirmed.  They can&#8217;t suspend him (and to be fair, it might not even be true), but obviously it would make negotiations with the team much more complex.  I can see why they&#8217;d want to get it over with before any allegations might be publicized&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Butch</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1309</link>
		<dc:creator>Butch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1309</guid>
		<description>Think there&#039;s any possibility that Andy Pettitte - who bulked up considerably after off-training workouts with Roger Clemens - DIDN&#039;T exercise his option with the Yankees because he knew (or thought) he&#039;d be in the report? Perhaps Pettitte wanted to avoid the humiliation of the Yankees trying to void the contract later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think there&#8217;s any possibility that Andy Pettitte &#8211; who bulked up considerably after off-training workouts with Roger Clemens &#8211; DIDN&#8217;T exercise his option with the Yankees because he knew (or thought) he&#8217;d be in the report? Perhaps Pettitte wanted to avoid the humiliation of the Yankees trying to void the contract later.</p>
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		<title>By: Byron</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1308</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1308</guid>
		<description>&quot;I wondered if there was a possibility that Schilling could be named in the Mitchell Report in some capacity. That would certainly be an â€œexternal influenceâ€ that would cause an â€œunavoidable strain.â€&quot;

Two things:

1. Did you see Curt Schilling this year? The man looks like the only thing he ate were Twinkies and extra-stuffed-crust pizzas. If he was doing steroids (which I sincerely doubt) he forgot that he has to work out after. Also, the MPH on his fastball was down about three or four ticks per pitch. It goes up while on the juice.

2. Why would Theo be in a rush to sign a guy that was going to be suspended for 50 games? That really doesn&#039;t make a lot of sense. 

I think that the scenario was simply if Schilling made it to the open market, he would&#039;ve gotten more years and more money. He wanted to stay in Boston, but leaving that money on the table is a tough thing to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wondered if there was a possibility that Schilling could be named in the Mitchell Report in some capacity. That would certainly be an â€œexternal influenceâ€ that would cause an â€œunavoidable strain.â€&#8221;</p>
<p>Two things:</p>
<p>1. Did you see Curt Schilling this year? The man looks like the only thing he ate were Twinkies and extra-stuffed-crust pizzas. If he was doing steroids (which I sincerely doubt) he forgot that he has to work out after. Also, the MPH on his fastball was down about three or four ticks per pitch. It goes up while on the juice.</p>
<p>2. Why would Theo be in a rush to sign a guy that was going to be suspended for 50 games? That really doesn&#8217;t make a lot of sense. </p>
<p>I think that the scenario was simply if Schilling made it to the open market, he would&#8217;ve gotten more years and more money. He wanted to stay in Boston, but leaving that money on the table is a tough thing to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Melody</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1287</link>
		<dc:creator>Melody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1287</guid>
		<description>Totally unrelated comment, but I&#039;ve been thinking about this...

Regarding Curt Schilling&#039;s decision to re-sign with Boston...  The following paragraph was included in the comments he posted in his blog after the announcement was made:

&quot;Theo and I spoke early in the week about wanting to complete this before the exclusive period ended, and the GM meetings began, because we both thought there could be a scenario popping up that might make this less desirable. He has to run this team, and I needed to do what was best and right for my family. Allowing external influences to change our opinions of each other might have been an unavoidable strain neither side wanted.&quot;

I keep wondering what &quot;scenario&quot; might &quot;pop up&quot; that would gum up the works here.  It seems like a cryptic but significant statement to me-- although of course I could be reading too much into it.  I wondered if there was a possibility that Schilling could be named in the Mitchell Report in some capacity.  That would certainly be an &quot;external influence&quot; that would cause an &quot;unavoidable strain.&quot;  

This is pure speculation, obviously... but I&#039;m curious what others think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally unrelated comment, but I&#8217;ve been thinking about this&#8230;</p>
<p>Regarding Curt Schilling&#8217;s decision to re-sign with Boston&#8230;  The following paragraph was included in the comments he posted in his blog after the announcement was made:</p>
<p>&#8220;Theo and I spoke early in the week about wanting to complete this before the exclusive period ended, and the GM meetings began, because we both thought there could be a scenario popping up that might make this less desirable. He has to run this team, and I needed to do what was best and right for my family. Allowing external influences to change our opinions of each other might have been an unavoidable strain neither side wanted.&#8221;</p>
<p>I keep wondering what &#8220;scenario&#8221; might &#8220;pop up&#8221; that would gum up the works here.  It seems like a cryptic but significant statement to me&#8211; although of course I could be reading too much into it.  I wondered if there was a possibility that Schilling could be named in the Mitchell Report in some capacity.  That would certainly be an &#8220;external influence&#8221; that would cause an &#8220;unavoidable strain.&#8221;  </p>
<p>This is pure speculation, obviously&#8230; but I&#8217;m curious what others think.</p>
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		<title>By: Melody</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>Melody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>I understand your thoughts about Torre... I think we all, as sports fans, tend to forget how much goes on that we&#039;ll never know about.  What did the Steinbrenners really intend by making that offer to Torre?  What was the nature of the relationship between them and him?  Did they know how he would respond?  These are all questions to which I will never know the answers, and yet those answers would greatly influence my perception of that situation.  Perhaps you, Joe, as a writer, are privy to more information than I.  But maybe not a lot :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your thoughts about Torre&#8230; I think we all, as sports fans, tend to forget how much goes on that we&#8217;ll never know about.  What did the Steinbrenners really intend by making that offer to Torre?  What was the nature of the relationship between them and him?  Did they know how he would respond?  These are all questions to which I will never know the answers, and yet those answers would greatly influence my perception of that situation.  Perhaps you, Joe, as a writer, are privy to more information than I.  But maybe not a lot <img src='http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1285</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1285</guid>
		<description>Butch - If your argument revolves around the hypocrisy of a single voter, I see what you&#039;re saying.

But if your argument is that the system accepted one veteran ROY, and that therefore it should accept another, I disagree.  

Should we continue to make the same mistakes due to precedent?  Sure, it&#039;s a different league, but Matsui, Ichiro, et al were veterans in every sense of the word.  Better to fix the problem late than never.  If that means Matsui (or another prospective import ROY candidate) &quot;unfairly&quot; loses his chance, then so be it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Butch &#8211; If your argument revolves around the hypocrisy of a single voter, I see what you&#8217;re saying.</p>
<p>But if your argument is that the system accepted one veteran ROY, and that therefore it should accept another, I disagree.  </p>
<p>Should we continue to make the same mistakes due to precedent?  Sure, it&#8217;s a different league, but Matsui, Ichiro, et al were veterans in every sense of the word.  Better to fix the problem late than never.  If that means Matsui (or another prospective import ROY candidate) &#8220;unfairly&#8221; loses his chance, then so be it.</p>
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		<title>By: Butch</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1284</link>
		<dc:creator>Butch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1284</guid>
		<description>Byron - I agree. They obviously need to spell out the rules for ROY and MVP for the writers a little better. In 2003, people debated about how Hideki Matsui shouldn&#039;t be eligible for the Rookie of the Year award because he wasn&#039;t a &quot;rookie&quot; from his experience in Japan -- but this was after Hideo Nomo, Kazuhiro Sasaki and Ichiro Suzuki had already won the award! If you want to make an argument that Matsui wasn&#039;t better than Angel Berroa that year, that&#039;s fine, but don&#039;t say the guy&#039;s ineligible if just a couple years before you&#039;d been voting for other guys in the same situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Byron &#8211; I agree. They obviously need to spell out the rules for ROY and MVP for the writers a little better. In 2003, people debated about how Hideki Matsui shouldn&#8217;t be eligible for the Rookie of the Year award because he wasn&#8217;t a &#8220;rookie&#8221; from his experience in Japan &#8212; but this was after Hideo Nomo, Kazuhiro Sasaki and Ichiro Suzuki had already won the award! If you want to make an argument that Matsui wasn&#8217;t better than Angel Berroa that year, that&#8217;s fine, but don&#8217;t say the guy&#8217;s ineligible if just a couple years before you&#8217;d been voting for other guys in the same situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Allen</title>
		<link>http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1281</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/11/13/news-on-the-march/#comment-1281</guid>
		<description>I think you answered your own questions about the Torre/Yankees thing in the point about Belichick/Shula.  The whole point of painting the NYY brass as the bad guys and Torre as the good guy is to stick it to the Yankees.  Torre&#039;s no longer a Yankee, and it&#039;s always a good time to blast New York, so the rest of us adopt the whole &quot;Joe is a class act&quot; line, formerly put forth by supporters of New York, merely so we can needle those self-same fans.

It&#039;s just the same with the Patriots.  I despise Belichick, and so, despite the fact that the Patriots are clearly a very good team, I not only root against them, but enjoy things like the Shula asterisk kerfluffle.  It&#039;s just too tempting to stick it to their fans, something to bring up whenever the lossless season talk rears its ugly head.

As for Keith K.&#039;s comment (alliteration!):  however unseemly the &#039;72 Dolphins and their ritual are, or have been portrayed, and however true it is that they wouldn&#039;t beat todays Patriots, it&#039;s simply false that they wouldn&#039;t beat today&#039;s Dolphins team.  Anybody, anytime, beats this year&#039;s Miami team.

To return to baseball, the reason we&#039;re all here in the first place:  shame about your Cy Young vote going to the loser, Joe.  I think Beckett deserved it for the regular season alone.  The playoffs only made the difference, namely Sabathia&#039;s laborious style v. Beckett&#039;s real-deal stuff, all the more obvious;  it wasn&#039;t simply that Beckett won his playoff games (although those were all fantastic) as that C.C. showed off his good but seat-of-the-pants nature, and revealed what that actually amounted to against two consecutive battering lineups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you answered your own questions about the Torre/Yankees thing in the point about Belichick/Shula.  The whole point of painting the NYY brass as the bad guys and Torre as the good guy is to stick it to the Yankees.  Torre&#8217;s no longer a Yankee, and it&#8217;s always a good time to blast New York, so the rest of us adopt the whole &#8220;Joe is a class act&#8221; line, formerly put forth by supporters of New York, merely so we can needle those self-same fans.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just the same with the Patriots.  I despise Belichick, and so, despite the fact that the Patriots are clearly a very good team, I not only root against them, but enjoy things like the Shula asterisk kerfluffle.  It&#8217;s just too tempting to stick it to their fans, something to bring up whenever the lossless season talk rears its ugly head.</p>
<p>As for Keith K.&#8217;s comment (alliteration!):  however unseemly the &#8216;72 Dolphins and their ritual are, or have been portrayed, and however true it is that they wouldn&#8217;t beat todays Patriots, it&#8217;s simply false that they wouldn&#8217;t beat today&#8217;s Dolphins team.  Anybody, anytime, beats this year&#8217;s Miami team.</p>
<p>To return to baseball, the reason we&#8217;re all here in the first place:  shame about your Cy Young vote going to the loser, Joe.  I think Beckett deserved it for the regular season alone.  The playoffs only made the difference, namely Sabathia&#8217;s laborious style v. Beckett&#8217;s real-deal stuff, all the more obvious;  it wasn&#8217;t simply that Beckett won his playoff games (although those were all fantastic) as that C.C. showed off his good but seat-of-the-pants nature, and revealed what that actually amounted to against two consecutive battering lineups.</p>
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