Pining for Brosius …
Posted: November 4th, 2007 | Filed under: Baseball | 20 Comments »
There’s a pretty popular fable being told these days about the New York Yankees, and it goes something like this: Once upon a time, around 1998 or so, the New York Yankees were a real team. They were not the team of mercenaries that they would become, no sir, they had been wisely put together with hard-working men, anti-stars with names like Scott Brosius and Luis Sojo, homegrown talents like Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada. This was the best team in all the world.
Then, after the core of this team had won four World Series, the story goes, the Yankees got greedy. Steinbrenner! The Yankees forgot all about those players like Brosius who had been so important and integral to the team’s success. They started spending huge amounts of money and collecting expensive superstars like Jason Giambi and Johnny Damon and — horror or horrors — Alex Rodriguez. And while these new men had talent, yes, they were not true Yankees. They made the team fat and unhappy. These new Yankees were good enough to get the team to the playoffs, perhaps, but they lacked the fortitude and strength of mind to do the hard work of October.
Where have you gone Joe Girardi-o?
And the moral of the fable, at least from what I“m reading, seems to be this: More Brosius. Less A-Rod.
It’s a touching story, it really is. It has all the best details of great American storytelling — the power of the little guy, the glories of hard work, the impending doom greed brings, the collapse of the giant corporation, yes, you could imagine a Bob Dylan song about this. There’s only one real problem with it. The whole thing is a bunch of malarkey.
For the sake of enjoyment, let’s compare the legendary 1998 Brosius Yankees, winners of 114 games and the World Series, with the collapsable 2007 A-Rod Yankees, who made the playoffs as a wildcard and promptly lost in the first round.
Both teams led the American league in runs scored. In fact, their offensive numbers are startlingly similar.
In 1998, the Yankees scored 965 runs.
In 2007, the Yankees scored 968 runs.
In 1998, the Yankees hit .288/.362/.460.
In 2007, the Yankees hit .290/.366/.463.
In 1998, the Yankees had a 117 OPS+ as a team.
In 2007, the Yankees had a 118 OPS+ as a team.
In 1998, the Yankees hit 207 home runs, fourth in the league.
In 2007, the Yankees hit 201 home runs, first overall.
In 1998, the Yankees won 42 blowout games by 5 or more runs.
In 2007, the Yankees won 46 blowout games by 5 or more runs.
And so on. Now, I’m no mathematician, but it seems to me that the 2007 team, if anything, was just a little bit better offensively than the 1998 team.
Ah, but those are mere numbers. The feeling is that while, yes, the numbers might be similar, but everyone knows that 1998 team was more homegrown, more of a real team, more together. That team went 21-10 in one-run games. This year’s Yankees went 18-21 in one-run games.
Thing is, Iâ€m not sure I see that more-real thing either either. That 1998 Yankees team, best I can tell, had three homegrown players in the every day lineup: Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada and Bernie Williams. The 2007 team had FOUR homegrown players in the every day lineup: Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera.
The 1998 team had a couple of players I guess were considered “true Yankees†who were picked up in trades: Paul O’Neill and Tino Martinez. But the 2007 Yankees also had Hideki Matsui, who I think fits that “true Yankee†category.
Then of course, there were the third basemen:
In 1998, there was Scott Brosius (.300, 19, 98).
In 2007, there was A-Rod (.314, 54, 156).
You know — I could be wrong here, but I’m not sure that the every day gutsiness of Scott Brosius was really the difference between the two teams. Not to downplay the power of gutsiness or anything.
Oh wait, there’s another part of baseball. What’s the word again? Oh yeah, pitching. The 1998 Yankees led the American League with a 3.82 ERA. They really led the league in just about every pitching category — most complete games, most shutouts, fewest hits, fewest homers, they were second in walks allowed and fourth in strikeouts. That was a good pitching staff.
In 2007, not so much. They were seventh in ERA (4.50), sixth in hits allowed, fourth in homers allowed, but some of the other peripherals were even worse — 12th in walks, and 12th in strikeouts. We seem to have hit pay-dirt here. The 1998 Yankees were a whole lot better pitching team than in 2007.
Why? Was it because the 1998 Yankees used all of these homegrown talents? Was it because those Yankees refused to go out and spend crazy money on pitching free agents? Uh, no. Those Yankees were every bit as spend-crazy as any other Yankees team. They had only one homegrown, raise-him-in-the-minor-leagues pitcher in the rotation — Andy Pettitte. He had a pretty good year (16-11, 4.42 ERA).
In 2007, the Yankees also had Andy Pettitte, and he had almost the same year (15-9, 4.06 ERA).
So what was the difference? In 1998, the Yankees ace was David Cone, a big-money free agent, who won 20. In 2007, the Yankees ace was homegrown talent Chien-Ming Wang who went 19-7 with a 3.70 ERA.
So let’s call that a wash. The dueling Pettitte’s are about the same. So that leaves …
Next starter:
In 1998, well known mercenary David Wells went 18-4 with a 3.55 ERA.
In 2007, aging mercenary Mike Mussina went 11-10 with a 5.15 ERA.
Next starter:
In 1998, expensive Japanese import Hideki Irabu went 13-9 with a 4.06 ERA
In 2007, expensive Houston import Roger Clemens went 6-6 with a 4.18 ERA
Next starter
In 1998, pricey Cuban signee El Duque went 12-4 with a 3.13 ERA
In 2007, pricey Carl Pavano didn’t do squat. The Yankees never really had a fifth starter, though homegrown talents like Phillip Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain offer some hope.
Bullpen:
In 1998, the Yankees had a dominant Mariano Rivera and a mishmash of acquisitions (Mike Stanton, Jeff Nelson, Graeme Lloyd) and homegrowns (Ramiro Mendoza*November 5, 2007 1:46 AM).
In 2007, the Yankees had a not-quite-as-dominant Mariano and a mishmash of acquisitions (Kyle Farnsworth, Mike Myers, Luis Vizcaino) and homegrowns (Joba) and overall weren’t as good.
So, what do we really have? The difference between 1998 and 2007 seems to be that the Yankees had better free agent pitchers and foreign imports in 1998. I know people are mad at A-Rod for bolting the Yankees on the last day of the World Series and asking for $350 million and not hitting in the playoffs and all that. I know it’s popular to suggest that the Yankees used to be more real, with more substance, and not all about the money. Everybody in Metropolis is pining for Brosius. Maybe they should be pining for Irabu.
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Not to pick nits, but here comes a nit…
Brosius wasn’t a FA. They got him from the A’s for the execrable (at that time) Kenny Rogers. They did re-sign him after ‘98 as a FA though.
You wildly understate how much a third baseman’s grit can improve his pitching staff.
I think you mean Ramiro Mendoza, since Mario Ramirez is, well, I don’t know who he is.
In the playoffs, Arod is hitless in his last 27 at-bats with runners on base. That as much as anything is why the yankees haven’t advanced in the playoffs.
In the regular season, A-Rod has won two MVP awards in three years. That as much as anything is why the Yankees were in the playoffs at all.
But, really, Yankee fan (and NY media), keep it up! Please, please, please, keep it up! You just ran the best player in baseball out of town with this “true Yankee” crap. I mean, I’m sure, A-Rod would have opted out this year anyway, but if you guys hadn’t spent the last three seasons treating him like garbage, he might have re-signed. Not now. And I love it!
Who are you going to blame when the Yankees fail again next year?
Hilarious. Y’know it could be said that Dice-K is a bit like Irabu so you are right on again Joe. Pitching wins in the postseason. I was just recdently contemplating the monster year Hanley Ramirez just put up and thought ‘Wow’ he can only get better. I wondered what the Red Sox would look like with him at short. But I quickly realized. even without the “throw in” MVP Lowell I would trade Ramirez for Beckett again, in a heartbeat. He and Papelbon should be a tough 1-2 for quite some time in Boston.
Mr. Posnanski, thank you for helping to set the record straight.
There were quite of few of us Yankee fans who wanted A-Rod back, who never booed and always cheered, and couldn’t care less what stupid numbers about the postseason people wanted to throw our way.
The truth is, A-Rod has always been about getting the most money. I think he felt the way to do that was to test the market at a time when the entire sport is swimming in cash. Even if Yankee fans (all of us) had worshiped him, he wasn’t guaranteed to stay.
He could have been an immortal in pinstripes. C’est la vie.
It’s “True Yankee”, not “Real Yankee”.
2007 Division Series:
Mercenary Alex Rodriguez: 4 for 15, .267 BA/.353 OBP/.467 SLG 2R, 1 HR, 1 RBI
True Yankee Derek Jeter: 3 for 17, .176/.176/.176 0R, 0HR, 1 RBI
True Yankee Jorge Posada: 2 for 15, .133/.235/.200 1R, 0HR, 0 RBI
Wherever you want to put the blame for the Yankees losing that series, it shouldn’t be on Alex Rodriguez.
If you’re talking pricey Japanese imports, it’s probably better to pit Irabu against Kei Igawa, who was signed to be a 4th or 5th starter. It obviously didn’t pan out.
To be honest, I think the Clemens trade before the 1999 season really started the Yankees’ pursuit of big name stars. Although Clemens blew in the regular season (14-11, 4.60 ERA), he won the WS clincher, and had that 15-strikeout one-hitter in the ALCS. So that merely encouraged them to pursue players such as Mussina, Giambi etc.
Joe Posnanski, you clearly have not heard about the Ring Index.
“Ring Index (RI) is a simple formula: Rings Won / Years of Experience. A player with 0 rings is simply given a negative number for the amount of years he’s been in the league. For example, A-Rod has had a shot at a World Series for 14 seasons (we have to take out the strike year of 1994 since there was no World Series), but has never won a ring. So his Ring Index is a putrid -14.”
Scott Brosius RI was .300
“The truth is, A-Rod has always been about getting the most money.” This is a common belief, but if it’s really true why was he willing to give back a big chunk of his contract to accept a trade to the Red Sox (before the 2004 season and before the Yankees got involved)? And why would he put himself on the market this time around without even giving the Yankees a chance to make a formal offer? How are you all about the money if you won’t negotiate with the one team known for throwing around the most money?
but brosius proved himself in the playoffs… with his .278 playoff OBP.
I know, on a fundamental level, that A Different Chris is joking. I know this. And yet, I’ve known and spoken with too many Yankee fans that there’s still a nagging doubt present.
I completely agree with you. The Yankees need more of Scott Brosius and less of Alex Rodriguez. Then again, I’m a Red Sox fan. Of course, the irony here is that to become a “True Yankee” isn’t hard. All you have to do is bring home a ring…
As to the pitching (where you are once again correct), I believe that the Red Sox won the division the day they won the _blind_ auction to win the rights to negotiate with Daisuke Matsuzake. He wasn’t the ace of the Red Sox staff, but he pitched many quality innings for them and his effect was underrated.
Consider the effect of moving Dice-K to the Yanks. 204 IP, 4.40 ERA 1.32 WHIP, 201 K would have done marvels for the Yankee staff and losing it would have really hurt the Sox.
If I knew his email address, I’d advise Wilson Betemit to hit ONE (just one) homerun in the World Series, if his Yankees get there, and he’ll be set for life. He’ll be a True Yankee and all that junk. He can hit .257 .323 .422 for the rest of his career, and .245 .278 .418 for his post season career, but he’ll always be this mythical “Winner” third baseman for the rest of recorded Yankees history.
I love people that make the argument that the way to make a team better is to get WORSE players. It’s brilliant.
Poor Wilson Betemit though. If he’s hitting .222 with 1 homer and 5 RsBI by May, every single one of the idiot New York Media will be writing headlines like “Wilson Who?” and “He’s no A-Rod!”
That should have read one BIG homerun.
Could also be that Brosius is one of the nicest guys to ever don a Yankee uniform. I met him in an airport in 2001 when he was on the DL (late August, early September, IIRC) and he was just a sweet guy. Didn’t have an attitude, smiled, and he had that reputation in the media as well.
Being a nice guy is why he gets more credit than he deserves. (And his wife never showed up at the Stadium in a FU tee shirt.)
Hey Rembrat-
I kinda chuckled at your logic up there. rings won / experience would make A-ROD a 0, since 0 divided by any number is still 0. It also looks weird to go from a +/- format for Arod to decimal format for Brosius.
Was all that sarcasm or what? lol
I think it’s funny how far an idea can stray from it’s original incarnation, particularly when fueled by talk radio, ill informed commentators, and tabloid newspapers. The whole “true Yankee”, in as much as Michael Kay (Yankee broadcaster) uses it, has the same definition as pornography, but is most accurately and appropriately used to describe someone that connected with the fans, the city, and the team. The home-grown Yankee concept isn’t so much that they are truer Yankees, it grew out of a defense of the accusations that the Yankees were buying their championships when in fact very little new talent arrived via the free agent market, and grew to be a plea to return to the seemingly more effective system of player development and trading (1994-2001) than plunging into the free agent pool and thinking that spending is the way to keep from sinking (2002-2006, hopefully), and now we have true Yankees are only winners who came to the team the good old fashioned ways, and it’s all just a little bit nuts.
Does anybody remember Reggie Jackson? Babe Ruth? They were bought and paid for and won a ton, so free-agency obviously can work (just look at the Red Sox) if it is done with insight and discipline and discretion. As far as winning goes, Mattingly didn’t at all by the current yard-stick, and he’s still Donnie Baseball. Alex Rodriguez has won more, but has never been able to connect, and to me that’s why he is denied “True Yankee” status. To put that in perspective, one should keep in mind that Mickey Mantle had many championships, MVP’s, a triple crown, and was the product of a savvy front office machine that churned out quality players, and was never embraced by the fans until his “True Yankee” status was elevated by the presence of Roger Maris, so there is definitely a whacky factor.
Does anyone remember Reggie Jackson? Babe Ruth? They were bought and paid for and won a ton, so free-agency obviously can work (just look at the Red Sox) if it is done with insight and discipline and discretion. As far as winning goes, Mattingly didn’t at all by the current yard-stick, and he’s still Donnie Baseball. Alex Rodriguez has won more, but has never been able to connect, and to me that’s why he is denied “True Yankee” status. To put that in perspective, one should keep in mind that Mickey Mantle was not a liked player until Roger Maris showed up, despite the many championships, MVP’s, a triple crown, and being the product of a savvy front office machine that churned out quality players, so it is obviously not a rational system, and I’m not saying it should be.