Comments on: The Meaning of A-Rod … http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/ Curiously Long Posts Thu, 18 Mar 2010 03:50:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Gabe http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-925 Gabe Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:38:58 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-925 Nice piece, Joe. It always amazes me to think that one day my grandkids are going to ask me what it was like watching the guys who were star baseball players in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. You know, like Rickey Henderson, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and A-Rod. And I'll say "Well, everybody thought they were a bunch of jerks who destroyed clubhouse chemistry. But people liked Kevin Millar because he even gave John Olerud a noogie!" I don't know any of these baseball players personally, and I'm loathe to judge them based on how the press perceives them. I don't care who's got a stabbin' cabin or who thought he was worth 14% more than the Yankees wanted to pay him. But I do enjoy watching them play baseball... Nice piece, Joe. It always amazes me to think that one day my grandkids are going to ask me what it was like watching the guys who were star baseball players in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. You know, like Rickey Henderson, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and A-Rod. And I’ll say “Well, everybody thought they were a bunch of jerks who destroyed clubhouse chemistry. But people liked Kevin Millar because he even gave John Olerud a noogie!”

I don’t know any of these baseball players personally, and I’m loathe to judge them based on how the press perceives them. I don’t care who’s got a stabbin’ cabin or who thought he was worth 14% more than the Yankees wanted to pay him. But I do enjoy watching them play baseball…

]]> By: Andrew http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-723 Andrew Thu, 01 Nov 2007 03:22:39 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-723 Just finished reading "Soul of Baseball". GREAT book. Just thought Id let you know how much that book, affected my outlook on life. I picked up "Right on Time" last year by Buck hoping to learn more about him. However, as you know, he doesnt like to talk about himself, so I was wanting more. I picked up your book and read it cover to cover in just a couple of days and LOVED it. And YES, I did cry haha. Anyway, thanks for the book, its not only a great baseball book, but a great book about the best of humanity! Just finished reading “Soul of Baseball”. GREAT book. Just thought Id let you know how much that book, affected my outlook on life. I picked up “Right on Time” last year by Buck hoping to learn more about him. However, as you know, he doesnt like to talk about himself, so I was wanting more. I picked up your book and read it cover to cover in just a couple of days and LOVED it. And YES, I did cry haha. Anyway, thanks for the book, its not only a great baseball book, but a great book about the best of humanity!

]]> By: James Patrick http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-722 James Patrick Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:47:15 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-722 You know, here's the thing that I just am not seeing mentioned very much. Maybe A-ROD opting out is actually NOT about the money (everyone just assumes he is trying to get more of the green stuff). Maybe, just maybe, he REALLY hates NY. He hates living in a fishbowl, he hates the traffic, he hates the weather, he hates the slobby-ass drunk fans who constantly berate him no matter what he does, and he hates the constant media attention and 24/7 coverage. I know such thoughts are impossible to fathom for those living in the "center of the universe" NY City. But still, I am just saying. You know, here’s the thing that I just am not seeing mentioned very much. Maybe A-ROD opting out is actually NOT about the money (everyone just assumes he is trying to get more of the green stuff). Maybe, just maybe, he REALLY hates NY. He hates living in a fishbowl, he hates the traffic, he hates the weather, he hates the slobby-ass drunk fans who constantly berate him no matter what he does, and he hates the constant media attention and 24/7 coverage.

I know such thoughts are impossible to fathom for those living in the “center of the universe” NY City. But still, I am just saying.

]]> By: Rory http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-715 Rory Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:24:56 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-715 Another good piece Joe, thanks for doing this blog it has become one of my daily "must reads". I wonder if I agree with you though when you say: : "And to me the way you judge a baseball player’s “character” — if that’s the word you want to use — is to determine who, day in and day out, succeeds most in what I believe is the most challenging game around." I might argue that there is a more complicated test, that requires you to look at the impact of the player on the team as a whole ('cos in the short-medium-long term contexts it is teams who win at baseball, not individuals and definitely not position players). Put another way I think a combination of the likes of Brosius, Tino, O'Neill, Girardi, Cone etc. both define character for me and are the glue that gets winning teams through both the long 162 marathon and the short post-season sprints. Even if, by individual measures they may not have "succeeded" as much as an A-Rod. .....and I have many Ranger supporting friends who, four seasons on, still declare loudly how many of A-Rods stats come in meaningless situations. Even if they are only partially correct, I'm surprised by the continuing anger that fuels their passionate disparagement. I rooted for A-Rod as a Yankee, but I mostly rooted for my Yanks and, honestly, will be happier without him as a Yankee. Another good piece Joe, thanks for doing this blog it has become one of my daily “must reads”.

I wonder if I agree with you though when you say: : “And to me the way you judge a baseball player’s “character” — if that’s the word you want to use — is to determine who, day in and day out, succeeds most in what I believe is the most challenging game around.”

I might argue that there is a more complicated test, that requires you to look at the impact of the player on the team as a whole (‘cos in the short-medium-long term contexts it is teams who win at baseball, not individuals and definitely not position players).

Put another way I think a combination of the likes of Brosius, Tino, O’Neill, Girardi, Cone etc. both define character for me and are the glue that gets winning teams through both the long 162 marathon and the short post-season sprints. Even if, by individual measures they may not have “succeeded” as much as an A-Rod.

…..and I have many Ranger supporting friends who, four seasons on, still declare loudly how many of A-Rods stats come in meaningless situations. Even if they are only partially correct, I’m surprised by the continuing anger that fuels their passionate disparagement.

I rooted for A-Rod as a Yankee, but I mostly rooted for my Yanks and, honestly, will be happier without him as a Yankee.

]]> By: Tim Lacy http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-714 Tim Lacy Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:52:40 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-714 Joe: Great piece, but rather than clear up my feelings about A-Rod, you've actually made me more conflicted. Although your conclusion is positive, I could've used 2/3 of your column to draw the opposite one. And my quandry sums up the A-Rod debate: he's too debatable. Unlike Ripken, Brett, Ernie Banks, and even Santo, he just doesn't leave you feeling positive about him. It perhaps all boils down to personality. But you did leave off one of his better attributes: unlike Bonds, A-Rod doesn't antagonize the fans and media. This alone assures that he'll make the HOF and always have supporters. - TL Joe: Great piece, but rather than clear up my feelings about A-Rod, you’ve actually made me more conflicted. Although your conclusion is positive, I could’ve used 2/3 of your column to draw the opposite one. And my quandry sums up the A-Rod debate: he’s too debatable. Unlike Ripken, Brett, Ernie Banks, and even Santo, he just doesn’t leave you feeling positive about him. It perhaps all boils down to personality. But you did leave off one of his better attributes: unlike Bonds, A-Rod doesn’t antagonize the fans and media. This alone assures that he’ll make the HOF and always have supporters. – TL

]]> By: SBG http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-711 SBG Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:06:38 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-711 Joe, you are the best! Joe, you are the best!

]]> By: Ross http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-710 Ross Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:32:15 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-710 Michael (1:06 pm 10/31, above) is a Yankees fan who is "pretty happy to let him go," and I'm a Sox fan who absolutely doesn't want him in Boston (regardless of whether the Sox will stupidly fail to sign their MVP, Lowell). And just as Michael noted that there is more to being a team player than mere production, there is also more to following an entire baseball club than watching them win or lose. Whether its a bunch of Idiots from 2004, or this present group of Grinders and Kids from 2007, I want My Sox Team to have a chemistry and personality that will fit with in with my visions of teamwork, success, and perhaps even failure and redemption. It's what makes watching sport so compelling. There's an antiseptic and loveless demeanor about A-rod, underneath those fabulous numbers. And a drive toward the almighty dollar that just hits me the wrong way. I fear the chemical balance of a team that includes these ingredients. And I'm not sure that I would spend my money or my time to support a Red Sox team that didn't understand, at least in this case, winning isn't everything. Michael (1:06 pm 10/31, above) is a Yankees fan who is “pretty happy to let him go,” and I’m a Sox fan who absolutely doesn’t want him in Boston (regardless of whether the Sox will stupidly fail to sign their MVP, Lowell).

And just as Michael noted that there is more to being a team player than mere production, there is also more to following an entire baseball club than watching them win or lose. Whether its a bunch of Idiots from 2004, or this present group of Grinders and Kids from 2007, I want My Sox Team to have a chemistry and personality that will fit with in with my visions of teamwork, success, and perhaps even failure and redemption.

It’s what makes watching sport so compelling.

There’s an antiseptic and loveless demeanor about A-rod, underneath those fabulous numbers. And a drive toward the almighty dollar that just hits me the wrong way. I fear the chemical balance of a team that includes these ingredients.

And I’m not sure that I would spend my money or my time to support a Red Sox team that didn’t understand, at least in this case, winning isn’t everything.

]]> By: Perry http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-707 Perry Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:53:06 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-707 First, great blog, maybe the best around. Second, agree with you 100% about the wild card. Until 1969, a pennant was something to celebrate in and of itself, with the world series a nice cherry on top. Even from 1969-1993, a division title -- the only ticket to postseason -- was a nice accomplishment. I'm a Rockies fan, and now that the Series is over, I'm not sure what to feel. Yeah, they "won the pennant." To do that, they beat Arizona in a short series, after Arizona won the 162-game season playing in the same division. On the last Friday of the regular season, the D-backs beat the Rockies -- their only loss between Sept. 15 and the World Series -- and celebrated on the field at Coors because they'd clinched the division title. A few days later on the same field it was the Rockies celebrating after knocking the D-backs out. I was as happy as anyone that the Rockies won, but honestly it did not, and does not, feel right. The Snakes got hosed by the system, just as the '05 Cardinals did, proving over 162 games they were better than the Astros and then losing 4 of 6 in the LCS. And just as the '04 Yankees did, beating the Red Sox fair and square over 162 but losing the 7-game season tacked on at the end. Any wild-card "championship" is bogus -- so congrats to the Red Sox for their first legitimate one since 1918. First, great blog, maybe the best around.

Second, agree with you 100% about the wild card. Until 1969, a pennant was something to celebrate in and of itself, with the world series a nice cherry on top. Even from 1969-1993, a division title — the only ticket to postseason — was a nice accomplishment.

I’m a Rockies fan, and now that the Series is over, I’m not sure what to feel. Yeah, they “won the pennant.” To do that, they beat Arizona in a short series, after Arizona won the 162-game season playing in the same division. On the last Friday of the regular season, the D-backs beat the Rockies — their only loss between Sept. 15 and the World Series — and celebrated on the field at Coors because they’d clinched the division title. A few days later on the same field it was the Rockies celebrating after knocking the D-backs out. I was as happy as anyone that the Rockies won, but honestly it did not, and does not, feel right. The Snakes got hosed by the system, just as the ‘05 Cardinals did, proving over 162 games they were better than the Astros and then losing 4 of 6 in the LCS. And just as the ‘04 Yankees did, beating the Red Sox fair and square over 162 but losing the 7-game season tacked on at the end. Any wild-card “championship” is bogus — so congrats to the Red Sox for their first legitimate one since 1918.

]]> By: Alan http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-705 Alan Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:07:42 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-705 Just to pick one stat, 518 home runs at age 32. Don't you think we will be watching a player this durable chase Bonds? He could hit over 800 home runs (Boras is looking at right handed hitters' ballparks, right now). Great ballplayer. Incredible talent. Just to pick one stat, 518 home runs at age 32.

Don’t you think we will be watching a player this durable chase Bonds? He could hit over 800 home runs (Boras is looking at right handed hitters’ ballparks, right now).

Great ballplayer. Incredible talent.

]]> By: Tracy http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-703 Tracy Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:40:23 +0000 http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/30/the-meaning-of-a-rod/#comment-703 Andrew, This past season, Rodriguez hit 318/448/776 with two outs and runners in scoring position, and hit 357/439/686 in late and close spots (data from BB Ref). Cherry-picking two games is pretty pathetic - try harder. Andrew,

This past season, Rodriguez hit 318/448/776 with two outs and runners in scoring position, and hit 357/439/686 in late and close spots (data from BB Ref).

Cherry-picking two games is pretty pathetic – try harder.

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