The Baseball Knight …
Posted: October 18th, 2007 | Filed under: Other Sports | 20 Comments »
Note to self: Never, ever, ever write about Chief Wahoo again.
So on Wednesday, I was sitting in the front row of the Bob Knight basketball press conference because, well, I get a huge kick out of Bob Knight. I know there are people who see Knight as a saint and others who see him as the devil, but I mostly see him as a cranky uncle who happens to be a genius at coaching basketball games. I find him to be absolutely hilarious.
(If you have not seen it — and I cannot believe there is anyone who has not seen it — you have to take 9 minutes, 41 seconds out of your day RIGHT NOW to watch these outtakes from the short-lived Bob Knight golf show. Let’s just say it’s not safe for work or church, but when I was listing off the 10 funniest things I’ve ever seen, I forgot to include this).
Anyway, I was sitting in the front row, and Knight began what was supposed to be a press conference about Texas Tech basketball by talking about the baseball playoffs. Knight grew up as a Cleveland Indians fan and he said that with Tony La Russa out of the playoffs, his best friend remaining is Indians manager Eric Wedge. Then he said, “Anybody got any questions about the American League Championship Series.â€
Well, you know me (well, actually, you don’t know me, but hey, you’re here at my blog for some reason): I’m not going to pass that up.
I asked: “How important do you think it is for the Indians to win Game 5 so they don’t have to go back to Fenway Park.â€
Knight said: “I think it would be damn important.â€
Which I think is succinct and perfectly sums up my own feelings.
Knight then went on about baseball for about 10 minutes. It was beautiful. I’m sure I ticked off some of the other reporters there who wanted to hear about Texas Tech basketball (though they did have a chance to ask Knight basketball questions later). But let’s be honest here: How interesting is Texas Tech basketball in October anyway? You can’t pass up a chance like this. It’s like someone said (who? Mark Twain? Robert Frost? Abe Lincoln? Dane Cook?): There’s only one Actober.
So here are some of the thoughts Bob Knight has about baseball, followed by my a few of my own.
Knight on Terry Francona’s decision to not bring back Josh Beckett on three days rest:
“We will now see everything on television geared for two days to where Beckett should have pitched last night. If (Tim) Wakefield had pitched well, it would have been the greatest decision in baseball. I always get a kick out of TV people because when a play works — a guy runs a trap, you know, or a delay and it gains 12 yards — boy, what a great call that was. Well, it was a great call because someone blocked well. It wasn’t like it came out of divine intervention somewhere. And if they run the same play, and it gets thrown for a three-yard loss, boy, that was a bad call.â€
My own thoughts:
I think Knight brings up a great point here, one that we all know intellectually but have trouble with emotionally (at least I do) and that is: You never know what the alternative outcome would have been. Say a manager brings in a relief pitcher into a crucial situation, and the reliever gives up the game-winning home run, My instant and gut reaction would be: “The manager made the wrong decision.“ Especially if, before he made the decision, i suspected it was the wrong call.
What I would not think is that there might not have been a right decision. The other reliever might have given up the homer too, only maybe he’s so mentally fragile that it would have wrecked him for three weeks. Or he might have blown out his arm. Or he might have walked five guys in a row. Or a woman in white might have stood up the crowd, and then the batter might have hit a baseball into a clock tower. Point is: Because we don’t know the alternative outcome, it’s easy to assume that our way would have worked better, even though there’s no evidence of that at all.
Personally, yeah, I would have brought back Beckett because i believe two things: One, in the playoffs, you take any chance you have to take to win — as an Indians fan, nothing would scare me more than seeing Josh Beckett three times in the Series. Two, I think pitchers should be brought back on three days rest more often anyway. I think a four-man rotation could still work in baseball. I really do.
But that said, let’s be honest: Francona’s strategy still might work fine for the Red Sox. Beckett is fully rested for Thursday night and gives the Sox a great chance to take this thing back to Fenway, where the series would be wide open again.
Also, I am on record saying the Indians should have brought back C.C. Sabathia on three-days rest in the Yankees Series, and that move might have cost the Indians the series. We’ll never know. We only know that Eric Wedge’s strategy of starting Paul Byrd worked out just fine.
Still, yeah, I would have pitched Beckett. And you know what? I think Knight would have too.
Knight on doing something because it’s the conventional way to do it:
â€I think you get stuck with some things that are, for lack of a better word, traditional or expected. So at the end of the eighth inning, I was with two guys watching, and I said: ‘I wonder if (Rafael) Betancourt will pitch the ninth inning.’ Which he did. Which to me was a great decision because he had just gone through three guys like a hot knife through butter. And when he pitched the ninth inning, I thought maybe they’d bring in Joe Borowski because that’s the thing to do. it was good. I like that part of it.
â€I used to tell Bill Parcells that football ought to investigate the guy that invented the prevent defense.“
My own thoughts:
I love this kind of talk from college basketball’s all-time winning coach. It shows that they — at least some of them — do think about some things the way us fans do. You know, so many coaches want to make it seem like they come up with their decisions through some sort of magical sixth sense they have. But they’re just human beings like all of us, and they susceptible to conventional wisdom, old wives’ tales and the fear of breaking away from tradition.
Or as one Big 12 coach so eloquently put it: â€it’s true. Sometimes we are afraid to put our nuts out there.“
Knight on the Royals’ chances of hiring Tony La Russa to be manager.
â€I think it will depend on what he thinks would be the best situation for him to have a team that can contend. Which might leave the Royals out.“
My own thoughts:
Cheap shot. I was talking with Royals general manager Dayton Moore afterward, and this came up. Moore said: â€You know Bob Knight used to be one of my heroes.“ Guy’s got a dry sense of humor. Then Dayton brought up a really good point. He said: â€Funny, Bob must have thought they could contend at Texas Tech.“
Also, I would like to make it clear that I am all for Tony La Russa refusing to be the manager of the Royals, I don’t really care what his reasons are.
Knight on the Indians nickname (OK, yeah, I asked him that too):
â€I think there’s a real long history of Indian culture in the state of Ohio. And half a dozen different tribes from the lake down to the Ohio River. And I think that that’s something that — I can’t speak for anybody other than myself — but I think I would be kind of proud of that. Here’s a Major League franchise that uses the name Indians, and I think that kind of reflects on the whole heritage of various Indian tribes in the state.“
My own thoughts:
Oh no, I’m not going there again. Not a chance.
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And the award for most reasonable approach to the Chief Wahoo issue goes to….Bobby Knight?
Surprising, but a good surprise, like finding a twenty in your back pocket when you take your jeans out of the dryer. Go Bobby!
Thanks, Joe, great article.
Of course, Bobby Knight didn’t actually answer the question about the nickname. It may be perfectly appropriate to have a team called the Indians, but his answer (at least what’s here) doesn’t address the Chief Wahoo issue at all.
Joe,
Just want you to know you are still my favorite sports columnist and that this blog is great. I was amazed this morning to see over a hundred comments on the last blog. Where did all those people come from? That’s more comments than the Soul of Baseball got in a year combined. No kidding. Those folks (on both sides) must have been coming in from other chat boards or something. I felt like I was reading the comments from a political website. Someone even started ranting about genocide and voting patterns on reservations. It felt like a battle of Daschle vs. Thune in SD. I’m shocked no one posted a rant for the “Ron Paul Revolution” since they are on every other chat board. Ha.
I view sports as the toy section of life. Why have none of those commenters ever posted before about anything else? I love the humor on this blog and the obscure pop culture references. The whole Chief Wahoo debate was like a trip into bizarro world for this blog.
Sorry I’m late to this debate. I learned about it via a MoveOn.org posting. I just finished a vegan breakfast fundraiser in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
I think the name Royals is offensive when you consider all of the horrible tragedies that have been visited upon the people of the world at the hands of royalty. Humankind has fought for centuries to throw off the shackels that the royals imposed on the masses. Genocide, torture, rape, and so forth came from the royals. Also, we suffer today from the royal family of the Bushes. No, Royals is highly offensive. From now on I shall call them the Kansas City Cleavers in honor of my good friend and fellow progressive congressman, Emanuel Cleaver of Kansas City.
Okay, when the descendants of those that have been oppressed by royal families begin protesting at Royals games the way Native Americans have protested Indians games, I’ll begin to listen.
I resent that, Mr. Kucinich. I have never tortured, raped, shackeled, or murdered anybody (unless we count drunk driving…but guns don’t kill people, people kill people, right? Same argument?). In fact, maybe you should partake in a little refreshment, on me – I’ll even fit into your vegan lifestyle being that I’m comprised mostly of fermented wheat and barley.
good call. texas tech basketball becomes exciting only after tech’s bowl game. wreck ‘em tech.
You must be a part of the right wing oppresive cabal that runs and ruins this once great nation. You believe that people must protest in order to do away with an offensive name? Who do you think unleashed Columbus and his wave off genocide against the Native Americans? The ROYALS!
Joe,
Rather than foolishly spinning this post into yet another Chief Wahoo debate (there’s a whole other thread of comments for that topic folks), I’ll focus on the meatiest of your remarks about media reactions to on field events.
Thank you for recognizing Knight’s (in my view) excellent point – second guessing most decisions by managers/coaches is inane. Sometimes you can (Grady Little leaps to mind) and it’s a fairly safe proposition, but generally you’re just foolishly speculating on events that literally never happened. It’s like Bart Giamatti’s spectacular response to a question during the Pete Rose banned-for-life press conference. Some damn fool asked him “If circumstances were different, would you be making the same decision?”, to which Giamatti replied, “Essentially you’re asking me if the circumstances were different, would the circumstances be different? To which I can unequivocally reply, Yes.”
See, Giammati, and it seems Knight as well, get it. Could/should Beckett have started Game 4? Maybe, but who knows? Maybe he would have won Game 4 but blown out his shoulder, forcing the Sox to go without him for the rest of the post-season and all of next season. Maybe his back was too tight and he would have given up eight runs. Who knows? What is absolutely known is that Beckett cannot start every game. He can’t even start four games in a seven-game series, so at some point Francona has to get a win from a different pitcher. Until such time as Schilling or Matsuzaka or Wakefield or Bugs Bunny actually lasts through the fifth inning, arguing the details about Beckett’s usage is pretty friggin’ silly.
Joe: Do you endorse Knight’s take on the prevent defense? It’s been many years since I paid attention to football (I skip your Chiefs articles at your day job, sorry), so the main thing I remember on the topic is Bill James’s defense of it when writing about – I think – the Law of Competitive Balance. His point, rightly or not, being that allowing the other team to march down the field was still a better idea, when far ahead, than allowing them a chance to lob a 60-yard pass. I have no opinion on the issue. Do you? Does anyone else here?
***
(@ Oddibe/Kerfeld: yes, there were quite a horde of non-regular posters to the Wahoo thing. When it was just us regulars, almost everyone agreed with Joe, and you — the one early dissenter and a frequent appearer on these boards — seemed respectful. (I wrote a disagreeing reply to your post, but I mistook it for friendly conversation until you took it here to charge me with “ranting”.) The people angry at Joe took your side. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong, but in your position I’d be too unsettled to bring it up again. Peace out.)
(And Joe, if you’re able to moderate the parenthetical part of my above comment out of existence, please do. Life is too short for this.)
Has anyone asked Rockies firstbase coach Glenallen Hill what he thinks of the name Spiders? He was the guy while with the Blue Jays that ended up on the DL after hurting himself during a nightmare about spiders. He was trying to fight them off and suposedly fell down some stairs and got pretty messed up. It’s one of the all time oddest injuires in sports.
Also, while people are talking to him could they ask him about his batting helmet he wears on the field. I know its because of Mike Coolbaugh’s death, but does he know the type of helmet he wears would do nothing to prevent what killed Coolbaugh. Coolbaugh was hit in the back of the head and neck area, not the top of the head like Hill’s old-school Gary Carter/Ozzie Smith batting helmet.
Brian B. Liberty and Union out.
Great post Joe. I am in no way a Knight fan, but it really should not come as a surprise to me that he thinks of things (and has pretty good insights actually) other than college basketball. It’s too bad for me I guess that it did.
Also, I wish someone would give the Bills’ defensive coordinator Knight’s note about the prevent defense.
Knight does get one thing wrong, however. He acts like Wedge leaving in Betancourt was a brilliant move (which it was) made because Wedge realized Betancourt was his best reliever (which he is).
But I have to believe, if that was a 3 run lead, Borowski is coming in. Wedge has stuck by that all year, and he’s not about to change now.
Wedge didn’t leave Betancourt in because he’s our best reliever, he left him in because it wasn’t a save situation. And I won’t criticize Wedge now when we’re winning, nor will I second guess him if we lose. He’s done it all year, it isn’t time to panic now.
Glad to see someone is staying on top of things.
Joe: I went to graduate school in Bloomington, IN from 1978-86, and I can say without a doubt that the most entertaining thing on television was the Sunday morning broadcast of Bob Knight Show. I hardly ever missed one. Knight routinely humiliated the studio host, bought donkeys into the studio, and recreated various tantrums. His commercials for Setzer Buick and Mineweld were also gems.
Cool comment.
I hope you’ll link to my site..
Bye
Hi Joe,
Jim Callis over at Baseball America just listed your baseball blog as his favorite so I am checking in to see for myself. I love baseball and the world of amateur prospects and minor league systems. I just wish the Yankees would get their act together as far as the June Free Agent Draft and the International Signing Period. Screw free agency and build from within. If they would spend the time and money to develop their farm teams and not worry about winning records on the farm. Iv’e been around since Butch Hobsen ended his career playing 3B for the Columbus Clipers, Ouch!
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